EPTSpectre: How to Farm - Page 2
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
On December 18 2012 04:18 Erasme wrote: ? For the same reason you get it on pl. Its better than shitty vanguard, gives mana and a slight mvt speed. Also the build up is good. its more understandable on pl than spec since pl actually has a low cd nuke to use unlike spec. but who the heck gets drums on pl... | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 18 2012 08:25 aintz wrote: its more understandable on pl than spec since pl actually has a low cd nuke to use unlike spec. but who the heck gets drums on pl... ?? Drums on PL is good. Or am i missing some sarcasm here? Drums is good on both spectre and PL. | ||
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gostunv
Japan1178 Posts
the only real advantage i see is that your illusions get burn as well. | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
i mean i can understand some ppl getting it on pl if their farm is just plain terrible. but on spec its just a waste of gold, what kind of spectre needs the int provided by drums? i mean its not even a cheap item. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 18 2012 08:46 gostunv wrote: so i never understood why radiance is a better farming tool over BF. does she just not get enough agi gain aka dmg to make it worth wile? the only real advantage i see is that your illusions get burn as well. It's the illusion factor, coupled by how much of Spectre's in-fight damage comes from her high survivability + Dispersion damage reflect. Radiance burn is a more practical form of in-fight damage for Spectre than Battle Fury cleave, even though both are more or less effective for farming. On December 18 2012 08:49 aintz wrote: never seen anybody go drums on either heroes and im constantly playing in page 1-5. i mean i can understand some ppl getting it on pl if their farm is just plain terrible. but on spec its just a waste of gold, what kind of spectre needs the int provided by drums? i mean its not even a cheap item. Janggo on PL has been a known build in Chinese DotA 1 pubs since 6.75 came out, and Janggo on Spec has been played in China for longer than that. That said, it has largely to do with the way Chinese pubs are played. Unless your name is Anti-mage, you simply don't have room to sit and farm (and Anti-mage only because he farms so fast and is impossible to catch). Teams play 5-man DotA very early, and once the action starts, it doesn't take a break. Teams are constantly pushing towers, smoking, and in general looking for fights every free moment. Chinese high-level pubs necessitate those early teamfight items because you simply will never get the chance to save for Radiance unless you do it through winning those early teamfights with these kinds of items. In slower western pubs, its much easier to get away with a Radiance. | ||
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Mithhaike
Singapore2759 Posts
On December 18 2012 08:46 gostunv wrote: so i never understood why radiance is a better farming tool over BF. does she just not get enough agi gain aka dmg to make it worth wile? the only real advantage i see is that your illusions get burn as well. 2 reason. Spectre is a weird carry in the sense that it doesnt do insane right click damage as per the other carries Its job is to tank and disperse damage out. Survivability items are insanely good on her. Radiance is better than BF because as spec,you want to live as long as possible in a teamfight, along with living longer, the radiance therefore does more damage.Its a Tank/Carry in other words...so 1) Radiance does more damage the longer you live,combined with Dispersion its actually extremely damaging. 2) Radiance helps clear out creep waves making it likely that her Desolate works Spec also doesnt make use of BF's regen as her spells are non-spammable. | ||
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FoFo
Netherlands207 Posts
On December 18 2012 09:56 Mithhaike wrote: 2 reason. Spectre is a weird carry in the sense that it doesnt do insane right click damage as per the other carries Its job is to tank and disperse damage out. Survivability items are insanely good on her. Radiance is better than BF because as spec,you want to live as long as possible in a teamfight, along with living longer, the radiance therefore does more damage.Its a Tank/Carry in other words...so 1) Radiance does more damage the longer you live,combined with Dispersion its actually extremely damaging. 2) Radiance helps clear out creep waves making it likely that her Desolate works Spec also doesnt make use of BF's regen as her spells are non-spammable. this and you're spending 4K on an item that provides literally 0 benefit to your illusion, while with a radiance you get the burn on their entire team (will be buffed aswell in next patch  ) | ||
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Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
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Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
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HocusPocus
Germany214 Posts
On December 18 2012 19:31 FoFo wrote: this and you're spending 4K on an item that provides literally 0 benefit to your illusion, while with a radiance you get the burn on their entire team (will be buffed aswell in next patch )You also get Radiance so the enemy team cant just ignore you in teamfights, they are kinda forced to focus you earlier in teamfights than without a Radiance (e.g. Battlefury). And i know im repeating stuff here but: Dispersion damage is pure, thats why you want to build a Vanguard over Drums. Survivability items (Heart/Manta) after your Radiance will further boost your Dispersion damage (as Dispersion scales very good with HP). Spectres job is not jumping from hero to hero and kill them with its rightclick damage. Spectre stands in the middle of the fight, "slowly" killing the enemy team. The biggest problem Spectre has right now (imho) is that it really has no ability to push/counterpush pre-radiance. You will lose mapcontrol early and the ability to freely farm your side of the map, delaying your Radiance and therefore weaken your midgame by a great margin as Spectre already is not the fastest farmer (read: cant catch up as fast as Cleave (etc) carries). | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 18 2012 21:52 HocusPocus wrote: You also get Radiance so the enemy team cant just ignore you in teamfights, they are kinda forced to focus you earlier in teamfights than without a Radiance (e.g. Battlefury). And i know im repeating stuff here but: Dispersion damage is pure, thats why you want to build a Vanguard over Drums. Survivability items (Heart/Manta) after your Radiance will further boost your Dispersion damage (as Dispersion scales very good with HP). Spectres job is not jumping from hero to hero and kill them with its rightclick damage. Spectre stands in the middle of the fight, "slowly" killing the enemy team. The biggest problem Spectre has right now (imho) is that it really has no ability to push/counterpush pre-radiance. You will lose mapcontrol early and the ability to freely farm your side of the map, delaying your Radiance and therefore weaken your midgame by a great margin as Spectre already is not the fastest farmer (read: cant catch up as fast as Cleave (etc) carries). You don't want to build a vanguard on her at all, vit booster at best. But not a vanguard. Waste of money and cost-ineffecient. | ||
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HocusPocus
Germany214 Posts
On December 18 2012 21:59 Unleashing wrote: You don't want to build a vanguard on her at all, vit booster at best. But not a vanguard. Waste of money and cost-ineffecient. hmm you might be right, depends on the enemy heroes i guess. But imho its better than a drum which costs like 500 less and is better on a support post-nerf. Spectre doesnt really need the movespeed with tranquils or phase. I have to agree though, if you skip the RoH you are probably better off (except they have a ck or sth that relies on heavy rightclicking) | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 18 2012 22:12 HocusPocus wrote: hmm you might be right, depends on the enemy heroes i guess. But imho its better than a drum which costs like 500 less and is better on a support post-nerf. Spectre doesnt really need the movespeed with tranquils or phase. I have to agree though, if you skip the RoH you are probably better off (except they have a ck or sth that relies on heavy rightclicking) No it really doesn't depend on the enemy heroes. Upgrading to vanguard is cost-ineffecient, and tranq boots and a vit booster is far more effecient for a spectre. And provides all the regen you should need in lane. And drums aren't for supports only post nerf, there's a reason why it's picked up on more than one hero often by good teams. Because it's just so extremely good to have. Vanguards cost-ineffeciency is a topic that has been up so many times. | ||
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HocusPocus
Germany214 Posts
On December 18 2012 22:41 Unleashing wrote: No it really doesn't depend on the enemy heroes. Upgrading to vanguard is cost-ineffecient, and tranq boots and a vit booster is far more effecient for a spectre. And provides all the regen you should need in lane. And drums aren't for supports only post nerf, there's a reason why it's picked up on more than one hero often by good teams. Because it's just so extremely good to have. Vanguards cost-ineffeciency is a topic that has been up so many times. Drums are most likely not picked up by the 1 (Carry) in the team, its more of a 3-4 position item. And if you are all about efficency why not buy a freaking armlet or midas every game? sometimes you have to build inefficient, doesnt mean that item is ineffective Last time ive seen Spectre was in S4 of Starladder (vP vs NaVi) they picked up a Vanguard as well | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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HocusPocus
Germany214 Posts
On December 18 2012 23:06 Erasme wrote: zhou buys drums everytime on luna. Fear doesnt, so i assume LGD needs luna for something different than eg needs luna for. Luna might be one of the few 1s that get Drums regularly (i wrote "most likely" which implies there are some possibilites to get it on the 1 position). Drums on Spectre just doesnt make much sense to me, its not like im flaming Unleashing or anything, i just dont understand why Drums should be better than vitbooster/Vanguard on Spectre. And the only thing i got from him was that it is more efficient, but that can be said about a bunch of items, that doesnt make it especially good for Spectre. | ||
St.Velten
Germany222 Posts
Off topic: Personaly, I was wondering if she could work in a kind of "facerush" Lineup with bounty + sven/ns and a more gank oriented build going dagger/desolate. That would kinda negate the fact that you can get out pushed if it works. Just theory crafting here. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 18 2012 23:17 HocusPocus wrote: Fear doesnt, so i assume LGD needs luna for something different than eg needs luna for. Luna might be one of the few 1s that get Drums regularly (i wrote "most likely" which implies there are some possibilites to get it on the 1 position). Drums on Spectre just doesnt make much sense to me, its not like im flaming Unleashing or anything, i just dont understand why Drums should be better than vitbooster/Vanguard on Spectre. And the only thing i got from him was that it is more efficient, but that can be said about a bunch of items, that doesnt make it especially good for Spectre. If you think drums are uncommon or rare on first positions i really don't know what to say anymore. Also LGD are just the better team, they understand the hero far better and utilizes it far better. On December 18 2012 23:03 HocusPocus wrote: Drums are most likely not picked up by the 1 (Carry) in the team, its more of a 3-4 position item. And if you are all about efficency why not buy a freaking armlet or midas every game? sometimes you have to build inefficient, doesnt mean that item is ineffective Last time ive seen Spectre was in S4 of Starladder (vP vs NaVi) they picked up a Vanguard as well Are you kidding me? Drums are most likely not picked up by the first position? I guess we'll ignore when DK is run as 1st position? And CK? And Luna? And juggernaut? And so on. And yes, vanguard is ineffecient. There is nearly zero reason to finish a vanguard compared to just having a vit booster and tranqs. Vanguard doesn't provide good regen for the upgrade, it doesn't build into anything, and it doesn't give more HP than a vit booster. The block also quickly loses effeciency especially on heroes with high armor. It's just an item that loses effeciency incredibly rapidly and doesn't build further onto anything. Drums is good for fighting early, i didn't talk about getting drums if you're rushing radiance, i talked about drums if you're going for treads/phase into drum into diffusal because you're NOT going to be building a radiance. But i don't agree with a vanguard in either of the two cases, a vit booster, sure, but not a vanguard. | ||
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