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Hey meepo friends, I'm trying to practice my shovelling. I feel pretty comfortable farming / laning mid or safe, but does anyone know strong item timings for this hero?
I am fond of bottle/treads/blink/Ags -> sheep / skaadi / heart
Generally I find I can get treads bottle blink by 10 mins, aghs around 16. The blink timing coincides pretty perfectly with lv 10.
I like blink first because right now I am playing this strictly in party queue and you gotta party hard.
Do most meepo players rely on smartcast? I think I should practice it.
Also, my blink poofs go to shit with my fifth meepo. Occasionally (25% maybe?) I only poof in 3 and the fourth fucks off. Is this just practice or is there something in doing wrong?
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Don't do blink first unless you are playing support. Aghs is just so much better and it accelerates your farm.
I don't smartcast some meepo players here said that it's easier with smartcast but i'm used tabbing with wc3. And i don't like the feeling of being only be able to play meepo with smartcast.
Also, my blink poofs go to shit with my fifth meepo. Occasionally (25% maybe?) I only poof in 3 and the fourth fucks off. Is this just practice or is there something in doing wrong?
Make it a habit to switch between meepos really fast and spam it.
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SoCal8910 Posts
i wouldn't say that support meepo is the only time you want blink 1st. you need to take into account what your team looks like bc sometimes picking up blink first gives your team a gigantic initiation advantage early in the game. that way you AND your team gain advantages.
quick cast with tabbing is how many meepo players mass poof. it removes a button press and overall makes combos such as blink poofing that much faster.
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Although i do not have 400 games of meepo so disclaimer but in my experience going there is almost no reason to go blink first unless you are super ahead in levels and your team is owning hard.
Aghs is just better since if you brought blink first you have to capitalize on aggression(killing heroes) in order for it to pay off and if you don't get kills with the blink you are pretty much behind. While going aghs will accelerate your farm and + meepo pretty much improves the fighting capacity of meepo and you don't rely on successful aggression since you can farm.
Besides after you get aghs farming the dagger isn't really a problem anyways you usually get it a couple of minutes after.
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I just read that meepo can poof to meepo illusions too (i.e. morphling), maybe in a 4p1 strat with this seemingly small parameter of poof could have a high gamechanging effect. food for thought.
The support meepo could be really nice i think, to bad we havent seen BigD experiment with it some more. I.e. net disables sb charge of darkness, phaseshift puck, antimage blink or qop blink (all four frequently picked hero's in this meta). Maybe a AA+meepo/tusk supportcombo could be something, but i would not know because i dont encounter many descent meepoplayers at my mmr.
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Problem with Blink is it's very all-in. If you don't get something done with Blink you delay the rest of your items by a significant amount of time. I used to buy Blink first a lot due to the way my hotkeys were set up (1-main meepo 2-secondthird meepo) and the timing it had with level 10 but it's just so easy to get blown up and your farm isn't where it should be. It feels so much more consistent to treat Meepo like an AM where you hit a timing for Aghs->Blink like BF->Manta and THEN you can decide how to progress. BoT's for map control + getting to 6 slots the quickest, Scythe for ganks, Skadi/Heart for immediate 5man.
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I noticed dotabuff shows hero win rate for laning now which is interesting. It might not be causation, but I find the results really interesting with regards to the off lane. Namely that Meepo has the highest win rate from laning off lane. This is quite well known to be a bad lane for Meepo to be in, and it reflects in his stats where he has the lowest KDA, EPM, and GPM in that lane. Despite that, he still has a significant win rate increase in that lane which I find bizzare.
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meepo
I'm also curious how in the world how Meepo's win-rate in all of the lanes could be above 50% when his actual win-rate is only 45-46%. I suppose sometimes it doesn't categorize a hero's lane position? The jungling doesn't explain things because it says that it's only a 6% prevalence which wouldn't change anything. It would be helpful to know what percentage of games it doesn't know the lane position, since it seems like that's a major cause for Meepo losing.
All those numbers add up to 98.74, so is it possible that only 1.7% of games aren't positioned? I would doubt it
This phenomenon seems to exist for nearly all the heroes. A major change in win rate (either higher or lower) in all the lanes compared to their average and/or wonky/unintuitive win rates for their common/uncommon lanes.
On March 29 2015 20:34 ahw wrote:Do most meepo players rely on smartcast? I think I should practice it.
On March 29 2015 23:06 goody153 wrote:
I don't smartcast some meepo players here said that it's easier with smartcast but i'm used tabbing with wc3. And i don't like the feeling of being only be able to play meepo with smartcast.
I presume both of you mean quick-cast? Smart cast isn't a proper term in DotA 2. Smart cast oftentimes refers to literally smart casting of skills automatically by the game's targetting system. In WC3 this meant both that casting net with multiple meepos selected makes only one Meepo launch a net, as well as the fact that the caster will always be the closest Meepo to the target that has the skill available. DOTA 2 has neither of those things.
With regards to tabbing in WC3, I assume you mean you mean regular WC3 rather than DotA 1? since it wasn't really necessary to tab in DotA 1 except for someone like Chen or Brewmaster.
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Any thoughts on Guardian Greaves on Meepo?
It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
You could build it pretty early on safelane, helping tremendously with pushing and winning teamfights. The buildup is pretty comfortable, with arcanes providing mana for farming and headdress helping with laning.
After Greaves you have the option of going for a Blink Dagger or Aghs depending on the situation.
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On May 07 2015 18:25 village_idiot wrote:
Any thoughts on Guardian Greaves on Meepo?
It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
You could build it pretty early on safelane, helping tremendously with pushing and winning teamfights. The buildup is pretty comfortable, with arcanes providing mana for farming and headdress helping with laning.
After Greaves you have the option of going for a Blink Dagger or Aghs depending on the situation.
No. Greaves is a waste of money on pretty much every hero.
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Aghs is the first big item in every game. No way around it. Greaves costs as much as a HoT so nah.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 07 2015 18:25 village_idiot wrote:
It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
Just FYI, Meepo clones can't use the active on Guardian Greaves. This is a carry-over from Arcane Boots, which Meepo clones also cannot use multiples of.
It makes Greaves very hard to justify relative to other boots that give full benefit to Meepo clones. It's also why Arcane Boots Meepo is not a thing (there are definitely teamcomps that could take advantage of Arcanes Meepo if clones could use the active).
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The useful things from guardian greaves are already given from mekansm. But I don't see a reason ever to get the arcane boots part, they add nothing useful. Mekansm is an all right item for meepo tho, altho I personally very seldom go it.
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So I really love this hero. Beyond playing him a bunch, I try to watch first-person VODs of avid meepo'rs: Notail, Excalibur, Ink, Weeha
A few observations (most of which have already been noted):
*Agh's is by far the most common first item (after treads). Improved stat-sharing and an extra clone are just too good to pass up. If you're doing well, you tend to get it around the time - or slightly after - you get your 3rd clone. This is a HUGE power spike. A group of 2 clones can flash farm a lane or the jungle
*A slick move I've seen used is to delay your clone till lvl 4, then skill it right when you get on top of the enemy for surprise burst. (Doing this at lvl 3 is also good, the extra lvl in poof is a lot of dmg tho, so take note of your opponents' HP
*Treads is too much DMG to pass up on this hero. That said, I've also seen tranquils (mostly support Meepo), BoTs first (Notail when far behind), and Phase (Koreans...never tried it myself, but I could see it being nice for snowballing)
*Try to use your first clone to stack the jungle when you can. I'll even double-stack with both clones if I'm having a really hard time.
*Treads -> Aghs -> Blink -> Sheep seems to be the most common item progression. Personally, I really like getting a Vlad's inbetween Blink and Sheep. Ideally, you'd want someone else to pick it up - but this can't be assured in pubs. And the damage + survivability you get from this item, for the cost, are unparalleled. (You can also now solo rosh with 4 clones). If I'm not doing as well as I'd like, and/or we're getting five-man'd before I have blink, I'll sometimes get early Vlads, before blink.
*Lategame, Skadi seems to be the pickup of choice, because of the stats it gives you. Ethereal blade is also good, not only because of the extra right click, but because you can potentially save a clone that's getting jumped.
*BoTs pretty broken on this hero :D
*It's all about the nets. Most meepos know how to itemize and blink poof. But landing those slow-ass nets, with their glacial cast animation and travel speed, can be difficult. Good nets make the difference between living/dying, kill secured/narrow escape
- One more thing: Leveling Net, vs leveling Geostrike (Always max poof). My general heuristic is this: Are we winning, or losing? If we're winning I'm more likely to be chasing and/or securing kills...so I level net. If we're losing, the enemy is more likely to be coming right for us, so I'll level geostrike for the dmg and move slow. There are other considerations that are dependent on both team compositions, but the general flow of the game is the first thing I consider.
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*BoTs pretty broken on this hero :D
well played !
*It's all about the nets. Most meepos know how to itemize and blink poof. But landing those slow-ass nets, with their glacial cast animation and travel speed, can be difficult. Good nets make the difference between living/dying, kill secured/narrow escape
In dota 1 landing nets is easier compared to doto 2
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Phase (Koreans...) Them Koreans and their sick micro skills. >_>
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So what starting items do you get on this hero? I've tried out tango salve stout slipper for a PMS rush because I get 6 damage for cs and much improved damage block in contested lanes (90% of the time) but at the same time rop stout tango branch start into basi could be good...? idk.
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depends on the lane .. whenever i'm mid i can get away with just quelling + rop/stout + tango then rush bottle
whenever i have harder time last hitting or the the lane i'm facing has good animation and high right click i usually buy quelling early on and try to lower the creep hp of all and poof them at ones
basilius is not needed on the hero .. but aquilla is nice and i buy it on most heroes lol
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meepo is derp. i am derp. we are all derps
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On May 07 2015 18:43 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2015 18:25 village_idiot wrote:
Any thoughts on Guardian Greaves on Meepo?
It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
You could build it pretty early on safelane, helping tremendously with pushing and winning teamfights. The buildup is pretty comfortable, with arcanes providing mana for farming and headdress helping with laning.
After Greaves you have the option of going for a Blink Dagger or Aghs depending on the situation. No. Greaves is a waste of money on pretty much every hero.
I'm not sure we should discount it too fast. I've played around with it a little and while I don't have it all figured out I feel like there's some promise. I am no meepo expert, to be sure, but aghs first seems like a very late game move. Frankly, aghs doesn't help your secondary meepos much at all if you go it first item--you're kinda paying 4.2k for another weak meepo. If you go blink right after, that doesn't give any tank either so you're going to have weak meepos for a very long time.
Makes sense if you're just going to farm but if you have to fight, would mek-blink-greaves work better?
I can see two cases where it could make sense:
1. Push strats or when you have a need to fight early - obviously very popular atm. Greaves won't be up for early pushes but the mek will be and is obviously a key contribution. Having an early mek means less meepos but it makes you more able to front-line early without being nuke-bait.
2. If the opposition is very heavy on bursty physical damage or armor reduction (ta, pa, ursa, slar, clinkz) and meepo prime might not get there in time to save the day when a secondary meepo gets ganked. That emergency armor effect is a pretty big deal, as is the base armor aura. The aura also makes the meepos completely self-reliant so they don't have to go back to base--less of an issue for meepo than other heros but still a nice perk.
Unfortunately bots take priority over greaves so you can't have the aura on remote meepos while caring both. I could see them being pretty strong if it was the other way around and you could just drop the greaves when you needed to tp a meepo.
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I dunno if you've ever actually rushed an aghs on Meepo before but a 12-15 minute Aghs = a relatively huge extra meepo. I don't even know how to discuss this if your premise is that Aghs rush is weak in any way. It is literally the best way to tank up Meepo due to the stats.
the only non stats item you can justify besides blink/sheep/bots is vlads because you can apply for a rosh subsidy right after
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EPT
