If you ask me, life is all about who you know and what you can find. When you live up in the Riftshadow Ruins, just finding food can be tough. So you need to cut corners, you need to scrounge, you need to know your strengths. Some of the beasts up there can kill you, so you need a way to trap the weak and duck the strong. On the upside, the ruins have history, and history is worth a lot to some people. There used to be a palace there, where they had all these dark rituals. Bad stuff. If you survived the ceremony, they would shatter a crystal and split your soul into pieces. They made great art though! Sculptures and such. Let me tell you: sometimes you stumble onto some of those old carvings. Take a pack full of those to town and sell them, then get yourself food for a few weeks. If luck is really on your side, you might find a Riftshadow crystal. Get it appraised and start asking around. Someone always knows some crazy fool looking for this kind of thing. If all else fails, sell it to a Magus the next time one's in town. They love that stuff. Still, whatever you do, be careful handling those crystals. You do not want one to go off on you. It really hurts.
I'd like to start this guide with a disclaimer: I'm by no means a professional player. However, I do follow the competitive Dota scene quite religiously, and play in inhouse leagues and practice games with a team of my friends that I captain - while I'm not the best, I do have some experience putting my ideas into practice in a setting that isn't a pub game. Meepo is by far my favourite hero in the game, and I've played enough games with him to have a good understanding (at least in my opinion) of how he works and how he fits into your average Dota game. This guide probably won't teach experienced Meepo players much they don't know, but hopefully it can interest some people in the hero and start them on the right track. All that being said, without further ado, allow me to introduce...
Fancy Geomancy - A Guide to Mee-Pwnage by Commander Coriander Salamander aka Cyx.
"If you ask me, life is all about who you know and what you can find. When you live up in the Riftshadow Ruins, just finding food can be tough. So you need to cut corners, you need to scrounge, you need to know your strengths. Some of the beasts up there can kill you, so you need a way to trap the weak and duck the strong. On the upside, the ruins have history, and history is worth a lot to some people. There used to be a palace there, where they had all these dark rituals. Bad stuff. If you survived the ceremony, they would shatter a crystal and split your soul into pieces. They made great art though! Sculptures and such. Let me tell you: sometimes you stumble onto some of those old carvings. Take a pack full of those to town and sell them, then get yourself food for a few weeks. If luck is really on your side, you might find a Riftshadow crystal. Get it appraised and start asking around. Someone always knows some crazy fool looking for this kind of thing. If all else fails, sell it to a Magus the next time one's in town. They love that stuff. Still, whatever you do, be careful handling those crystals. You do not want one to go off on you. It really hurts."
Meepo is considered by many players to be among the most difficult heroes to play in the game. He requires a skillset that not many heroes do – to play Meepo well requires fast reflexes, quick decision making, a healthy amount of lasthitting skill, urgent map awareness and of course, the micro skills that make everything you do possible. With some practice, though, a lot of the players who put in the time find him one of the most fun and rewarding to play as well. A truly skilled Meepo is a fearsome sight, and the feeling of executing a perfect blink-poof into chain net on several heroes and oftentimes singlehandedly winning a teamfight is something I have yet to come across anywhere else in Dota. This guide hopes to provide you with enough information to start you well on your way to dominating with Meepo, and will cover most of the basics like items, skill builds, when (and when not) to pick Meepo and your general mentality and gameplay during a Meepo game, as well as some more Meepo-specific things like effective jungling and micro tricks.
Note: As Meepo is not really a 'beginner' hero per se, this guide is as such geared towards mid-skilled players looking to extend their hero repertoire, as well as hopefully having enough information that even high-skilled players can take something from it. That being said, it assumes the reader understands a lot of Dota terminology and basic skills – if you have a question about anything you don't understand very well don't be scared to ask!
Meepo's base stats across the board are pretty decent – his base Agility and Strength of 23 are both very high, and his base Intelligence of 20 is not atrocious either.
His stat gain is quite poor, which compensates slightly for his massive level advantage in the midgame. His gain of 1.6 Strength and Intelligence per level is appallingly low, and his 1.9 Agility per level is unimpressive as well. Still, it doesn't matter that you get less per level if you get levels twice as fast as everyone else – at least that's the theory.
42 damage at level one is pretty poor as well, especially for a hero so farm-dependent as Meepo. Consider getting regen from your friends if you can to pick up an early Wraith Band or Poor Man's Shield. His attack animation is great though, which makes lasthitting easy if you're not under very much pressure.
One other thing that's somewhat notable is his 1800 vision range at both day and night – compared to most heroes' 1800/800, this makes him actually a fair bit less gankable during that incredibly important first night.
III. I THINK I LIKE IT HERE! - WHEN (NOT) TO PICK MEEPO top
Meepo is an extremely situational pick. He relies a lot on being able to move freely with at least most of his Meepos – single-target stuns aren't a huge issue for him, but any sort of big AoE lockdown makes it difficult to do what you want to do. Big initiators like Faceless Void, Tidehunter or Enigma create a lot of problems for you, as well as carries who do big area DPS like Sven, Luna and Medusa.
Against teams that are trying to push you extremely early – think before level 11 – Meepo doesn't really have the time to get up the levels and items he needs to do the damage he can. Also, he's pretty susceptible to extremely early ganking – once he's near or at level 11 (again the magic number) he's quite resilient with decent micro but before that he again won't have the time he needs to truly become frightening.
Given the space he needs in a game, though, Meepo can dominate. Against a team that relies on single-target initiation and DPS, as well as teams that are heavy on escapes like invisibility and blinking (both of which net is great against), Meepo's ability to flash farm and level insanely fast while still providing a big presence in ganks, teamfights and pushes makes him an amazing hero if you want a really strong midgame fighting lineup that stays competitive with all but the hardest carries in the super late game.
His midgame presence is immense – if he manages to get up a few core items by the time he hits level 16 (which can happen by a little after 20 minutes if you're doing well), he can destroy most midgame carries like Chaos Knight, Lifestealer, Clinkz or Drow Ranger at their own game. He also scales much better into the lategame than most other carries – the potential for a farmed Meepo dealing 5x damage (with full stat sharing from items through aghanim's scepter) is through the roof, and his spell damage through five poofs is comparable to a sonic wave with a 6 second cooldown.
Lategame, he brings only not massive damage to the table, but also the potential for initiation greater than ravage through blinking in and netting three or four heroes permanently (or until they BKB). If your team lacks strong initiation but has some good followup and support for you, Meepo is a good pick. He also pairs exceptionally well with aura-based supports like Vengeful Spirit or Beastmaster, who increase his damage to a phenomenal level.
When to Pick: - Your team needs a hard carry. - Their team has a strong midgame carry and you want to beat him both midgame and - lategame. - Their team relies a lot on midgame ganking (think Nightstalker, Bounty Hunter, etcetera). - You need initiation and area damage in the mid to late game. - Your team includes several aura-based heroes.
When Not to Pick: - The other team has a lot of area lockdown/damage (Faceless Void, Sven, etcetera). - The other team is aiming to turtle until their super-lategame carry comes online (Medusa, Spectre). - The other team is aiming to end the game before 30 minutes. - You will not be able to farm safely for the first ten minutes of the game. - You aren't confident in your ability to farm well in the early game.
IV. IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER FOR ME - THE MINDSET OF A MEEPO PLAYER top
This section of the guide will be split into two parts. The first will focus on the most common way to play Meepo, which is as a hard carry, farming your team's safe lane. Second will be a shorter piece on playing Meepo as a solo mid, which is a completely viable way to run Meepo – however, a lot of the information covered will overlap with the information on the hard carry role, and this guide will focus mostly on playing as a carry.
No matter where you play Meepo, your focus always needs to be on the strength of the hero – his ability to outfarm and outlevel every hero in the game. At least one of your Meepos should always be farming somewhere – be it jungle, lane, or farming heroes, your goal is to hit level 25 and have 6 items before anyone else has even thought about the late game yet.
Hard Carry Meepo Early Game (Levels 1 - 6): In the early game your focus should be on securing farm. Hopefully someone on your team has picked a support, and you are going together to the safe lane – your item timings are critical as Meepo and you don't want to be fighting for farm. Worry about lasthitting and lasthitting only – Meepo isn't a very effective hero one-on-one until there are more than one of him. His spells are weak if there's only a single Meepo casting them, and his rightclicks are laughable until he gets some levels and items.
If your mid comes to gank your lane, poof is still a decent nuke if you can land it – this is going to be tricky if you don't have a setup stun, and your focus should still be on making sure you don't die, or even have to go back to base. Getting items and getting levels is too important for Meepo to risk your farm time for anything but a sure kill. Play defensively. You don't have a lot of lane presence at this point in the game.
As lasthitting with Meepo's base damage can be pretty tricky sometimes, you can use poof pretty liberally to farm. Its mana cost is really low, it does comparably good damage at level one, and it's easy to hit on creeps, which if timed correctly will help you to pick up those lasthits you were going to miss because of the tower. Again, don't be too aggressive with your lasthitting, as a badly placed poof will result in your death even more quickly than trying to get that lasthit on the ranged creep that's behind two heroes.
Goals for the early game: Stay alive, get lasthits, get experience.
Early – Midgame (Levels 6 – 11) Your focus at this point should be mostly the same as in the very early game. You want to be getting as much gold and experience as humanly possible, since so much of Meepo's strength is derived from having an experience and gold advantage. The only thing that changes during this stage of the game is where you find that gold and experience.
Once you have two Meepos, you have the ability to almost instantly clear any jungle camp with just two poofs and a few rightclicks. ABUSE THIS. Clear a wave of creeps in your lane, then head into the jungle to farm. Send one of your Meepos back to base to heal if you have to. Stack the jungle and farm it. Farm mid lane. Farm your lane. Farm everywhere possible, but mostly, rely on your insane jungling speed to get the most out of the neutral creeps. This section of the game is so important that there's an entire section on jungling with Meepo later in the guide, so I won't say too much more about it here.
The only thing that really changes about your mindset in this stage of the game is the fact that you now have a lot more presence in ganks and in lane in general. If someone in your lane is playing more aggressively than they should because they've become used to playing against one Meepo, you and your support can now do a decent amount of damage. Two poofs is a lot of damage to heroes as well as to jungle creeps. That being said, you shouldn't be trying too hard to gank at this stage – you still need a lot more levels and items before you become truly a force to be feared.
Goals for the early – midgame: Stay alive, get (jungle) farm, get experience. Consider kills with caution.
Midgame (Levels 11 – 16) You now have three Meepos. Still, however, you really want to be maximizing your gold and experience. However, you have a few items now, and you can be really effective in ganks and fights – how do you decide whether to farm lane, farm jungle, or roam around ganking, pushing and participating?
The answer: you don't. Three Meepos is pretty amazing for farming the jungle, and your time should be spent mostly on that still, but you have a lot more potential now. The best thing about Meepo, however, is that jungle farming, with a little practice, is mostly automatic. What that means for how you think about the game is that you have the ability to farm the jungle pretty effectively with three Meepos while still managing to keep a TP scroll handy, as well as watching for opportune rotations into bot or mid – so you never have to choose between participating or farming. You can bring all of your Meepos to any of your other Meepos with poof, so you can be in a lot of places at once, without impacting your farm ability much at all.
This is when your level advantage and farm advantage starts to show. Use blink, net and poof to gank, use double poofs to push a tower extremely fast (especially with three Meepos smacking it), use all three Meepos to farm the jungle if there's nothing else to do. Divide and conquer – but never lose sight of your main goals. Outlevel and outfarm every hero on the map. Goals for the midgame: Initiate ganks and teamfights. Push towers. Get farm, get experience.
Lategame (Levels 16 – 24) Hopefully around the time you got your fourth Meepo, you also got your fifth Meepo. Now is when Meepo really shines. Most other heroes on the map are level 11 at this point. Destroy them with no remorse. A blink into poof of all your Meepos, with some geostrike to make sure they don't get away, can crush most heroes at this point. You're insanely tanky with hopefully a scepter, a mek, and treads (more on items later), and several levels on everyone. You push incredibly fast with poof. You can wreck a lot of face at this point if you've been doing well, so get out there and do it.
But if you're aware enough, one Meepo is all you need to have that kind of presence in the game. The other four Meepos shouldn't be losing track of the main goal – outlevel and outfarm. Four Meepos can clear the jungle faster than any hero except (maybe) an Antimage with battlefury. Take advantage of this fact, just like you have been for the last ten or fifteen levels. When you hit level 25 and they're all still level 16, they will be just as sad as when those five Meepos poofed on them at level 11.
Goals for the lategame: Initiate more ganks and teamfights. Push more towers. Get farm, get experience.
Ultra-Lategame (Level 25) This is the time when your mindset as Meepo changes the most. No longer do you need to focus on outfarming and outleveling because you have six items and you're level 25. You are still a force to be feared – but once other people start catching up, your levels won't help you any more. Like any carry, you will have to rely on your items to push you into their base and through their barracks.
But now you have nothing to do with the four Meepos that have been farming the jungle. By this point, however, you should have (or at least be considering) boots of travel, which transform Meepo into something more than a carry – with boots of travel on every Meepo, you can push all three lanes simultaneously at all times, and unless all five of the enemy heroes are there, they're hard to gank because they will all be there if one is in trouble (that is, if they don't manage to poof away in time!). Your split push ability outclasses that of any other carry in the game. Make sure the enemy can't leave their base without losing a rax.
Your role in teamfights is still much the same – you want to be initiating with blink and net, then dealing your immense DPS to any enemy hero unfortunate enough to be caught. You're a lot more survivable now, and you don't rely as much on poof for your damage – Meepo at this point transitions into being a true hard carry. Make the enemy scared to leave their base for fear of the Meepo hit squad coming for them. You have more presence on the map than it's possible for any other hero to have, so continue to abuse it as you have the whole game.
Goals for the ultra-lategame: Push towers, win teamfights, get more farm (because you can never have enough gold). Be everywhere, do everything.
Solo Mid Meepo
As a solo mid Meepo, your goals throughout the game are pretty similar to those you have as a hard carry. You do have a few added responsibilities, though, as well as a couple extra difficulties that come from not having a support in your lane.
In the very early stages of the game, your focus is mostly going to be on surviving and hitting level 6 as quickly as possible. Depending on the matchup, you may or may not be able to be very aggressive – obviously try not to lane Meepo in mid against a ranged hero, as you'll probably get rocked pretty hard, but some melee matchups can be easier than others. Make a judgement call – try to find as much farm as is reasonably possible, but survival is the most important thing here.
Once you're level 6, start abusing the experience gain of your second Meepo while still maintaining some lane presence in mid, sending Meepo 2 off to sidelanes to leech experience and gank, as well as stacking as many jungle camps as is possible. You need to have a bit more presence on the map during this stage of the game if you've been laning in mid, but keep your eyes on the prize – experience and gold are still king.
From level 11 onwards, your role is pretty much the same as a hard carry Meepo – you may not have quite as much farm as you would like but you can easily make up for that in jungling and farming speed with poof. Get experience, get gold, and have as much presence on the map as you can.
Meepo's skillset is quite unique. None of his skills are particularly impressive when taken on their own, but when used four or five times in the right way they all have the power to change teamfights. However, this has the disadvantage of making his early game particularly weak – while poof has a bit of utility pre-level 6, net and geostrike both have fairly minimal impact on the game without several of them at once. When you're using Meepo's skills, keep this in mind – if you're not using all of your Meepos (and all of their spells) you're not having as much impact on the game as you could be. This section will only cover a few basic points about each of his spells – more tips on how to use them correctly in many different situations will be covered in the jungling and micro sections of this guide.
Earthbind (Q)
Tosses a net at the target point, pinning down all enemy units. Earthbind prevents invisibility, blink, and interrupts channeling.
Usually referred to as Meepo's 'net', earthbind nets all enemy units in an area, tying them to the ground. Similar to Naga Siren's ensnare, earthbound units can still cast spells and attack – however, they're unable to blink, go invisible or move, which makes Meepo really effective at ganking heroes that rely on those things to escape, like Anti-Mage or Bounty Hunter (for example). Earthbind can also prove extremely good initiation in teamfights, especially when cast in succession from multiple Meepos – you can keep as many heroes as you catch with the first net there forever if you micro well enough. Sometimes, all you need to do is hold them in place while your team follows up – and if not, then your poof can provide all the followup you need to destroy a few helpless supports.
Poof (W)
Drawing mystical energies from the earth, a Meepo can teleport to another Meepo or itself after channeling for 1.5 seconds, dealing damage in both the departure and arrival locations.
Ability: Target Unit, Target Point Damage: 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 Radius: 375 Mana Cost: 80 Cooldown: 12 / 10 / 8 / 6
In combination with his ultimate, this is the spell that truly makes Meepo who he is, giving him the immense map presence and farm ability that he has. After channeling for 1.5 seconds, Meepo will teleport to the target Meepo (choosing the closest one if you target a spot on the ground), dealing damage in an area around both Meepos (or dealing the damage twice around itself if it poofs to itself). The cooldown and mana cost won't be used if you're interrupted during the channel, similar to Nature's Prophet's teleport. Using this correctly, a Meepo is never alone – you can bring all of them (or as many as you need) to help any one out whenever you need it. It's also a fantastic farming tool. Two Meepos poofing to themselves in a creep wave will get you every last hit in the wave, letting you push incredibly fast if you want, or farm the lane quickly and then return to the jungle. Using poof correctly is a huge part of the skill involved in playing Meepo, and is too in-depth to cover fully here – though there will be more on its use later in the micro section.
Geostrike (E)
Meepo enchants his shovel to deal damage per second, as well as slow the movement speed of the attacked unit. Geostrikes from multiple Meepos stack.
Geostrike is the simplest of Meepo's abilities – your autoattacks apply a debuff that deals 28 damage per second at max level and slows by 20%. There are a few things to know about it in order to get maximum use out of it, however. The debuff will last for about a second and a half after your last shovel smack, meaning that you'll get one more tick of geostrike damage off after your Meepos are unable to hit the target, which adds up to 140 damage if you have five Meepos – often enough to get the lasthit on someone you thought was getting away. Also, it's not necessary to constantly autoattack to maintain the slow – you can stutter a bit in between, making geostrike a pretty good chasing tool. One last note is that while the slows stack, you can never reduce a unit's movespeed below 100, meaning that you can't actually stop someone with your '100% slow'.
Divided We Stand (R)
Meepo summons an imperfect, semi-autonomous duplicate of himself, which can gain gold and experience as he does and shares his experience and abilities. However, the clones cannot wield any items but the boots that Meepo himself wears. The cloned Meepos also gain 30% of any bonus attributes the primary Meepo has. If any of the clones die, they all die. Upgradable by Aghanim's Scepter.
Ability: Passive Numer of Meepos: 1 / 2 / 3
Scepter Upgrade: Adds an extra Meepo. Increases shared attribute percentage from 30% to 100%..
Together with poof, Meepo's ultimate is what truly defines his character. Allowing him to farm the jungle, push lanes, fight, gank, and most importantly, outlevel and outfarm every hero on the map, Meepo's clones come with a few caveats.
First, if any of them dies, Meepo dies. This can add a lot of stress to a Meepo player's life – minimap awareness is life or death for a Meepo, as you can't be watching all of them all the time unless you keep them together, which destroys any effectiveness a Meepo could hope to have. Be sure to take care of your Meepos. Keep them hotkeyed individually so you can respond as fast as you need to. Make sure you know which Meepos are where.
Second (though this might seem obvious after this much time), all of your Meepos gain experience from wherever they are on the map. This lets Meepo gain experience faster than any other hero in the game, which is why your goal should be to outlevel and outfarm at all times. However, this comes with a warning as well: don't be that noob who keeps his three Meepos together in lane at level 14. Split up. Divide and conquer, as the saying goes.
Third, the recent buff to aghanim's scepter on Meepo makes it one of the best items it's possible to get on Meepo. The increased stat sharing allows you to play Meepo as the hard carry he was born to be, building items like heart, manta style, ethereal blade, and skadi without fearing reduced effectiveness on his other Meepos, as well as giving him an extra one to play around with – increasing his potential damage by 20%. There'll be more on this in the items section, so let it suffice to say that adding one more Meepo to your squad truly allows you to put the team on your back. After all, you only need five heroes to make a team, right?
Your skill build on Meepo is generally fairly standardized. There are a few situations where you may want to deviate, and they'll be covered at the end of this section, but for now let's look at the reasoning behind a usual Meepo skill build.
1. Earthbind / Poof 2. Poof / Earthbind 3. Poof 4. Geostrike 5. Poof 6. Divided We Stand 7. Poof 8. Geostrike 9. Geostrike 10. Geostrike 11. Divided We Stand 12. Earthbind 13. Earthbind 14. Earthbind 15. Stats 16. Divided We Stand
Reasoning: Either earthbind or poof can be taken at level one. Generally you will take earthbind first as used correctly it will allow you to survive a surprise gank at level one, and surviving that is key if it happens. Poof can be a good idea if you're planning on being the aggressive one – especially with a setup stun, a 160 damage nuke is nothing to laugh at at that level, and can secure you a kill.
Next you want to max poof as most of your time from levels 6 – 11 are going to be spent in the jungle and clearing lanes as quickly as possible, and the reduced cooldown and increased damage on poof make him great at just that. This is the part of the build I would say is the most set in stone – you're unlikely to ever want that extra net range or slow on your two Meepos, but the poof levels help you progress as quickly as possible.
Geostrike is taken next because its slow is exceptionally helpful for ganking, and with blink dagger especially, the extra net range won't help you a whole lot in that aspect. Geostrike is also deceptive in the amount of DPS it adds – when you're jungling, the extra damage adds up to more gold and experience per minute, which net doesn't help you get at that stage.
Earthbind is taken last because the extra range is mostly helpful for initating and winning teamfights, which don't happen so frequently before you're level 16 (keep in mind many heroes won't be level 11 at that point!).
Your ultimate is taken whenever possible for all the obvious reasons.
Deviations: Poof generally needs to be maxed as soon as possible. The only deviation I would generally consider making from this build is alternating the order in which you level earthbind and geostrike, which I would think about if I still wanted to have a lot of gank presence but wasn't able to farm up my blink dagger as quickly as I would have liked (something to be considered on a solo mid Meepo, especially since he's not likely to win his lane alone).
Item builds on Meepo can, of course, vary a lot depending on the game, as they can with most heroes. This section will lead you through some of the choices you should be looking at making throughout the game, depending on what your team is building and what you feel will make you have the most impact on the game at any given time. Also important to note is the emphasis on item timings, especially once you start thinking about your core midgame items. All of your items are exponentially more effective the faster you get them, as are your levels. Don't lose track of your eventual goal of level 25 and six tier four items.
Starting Items: Meepo is a very farm-dependent hero. Don't buy the courier or wards at the start of the game if at all possible. Leave them for someone else. In the early game, you need survivability and regeneration in lane. Staying in lane for as long as possible will let you outlevel and outfarm the enemy heroes as quickly as you can.
A Stout Shield is always a good pickup on pretty much every melee hero. It wildly reduces the damage you will take from both harass from heroes and hits from creep waves, making your life in lane easier by a significant amount. In public games it's unlikely you'll ever be free from harass completely, meaning stout shield will give you incredible amounts of effective HP for the small cost.
Tangoes and Salves are, as always, great starting items for any hero – again, they let you stay in lane and farm without fearing for your life, which is something Meepo desperately needs in the early game. Don't be hesitant about buying more tangoes if you feel like you're going to be up against an extremely aggressive lane. Iron Branches are, as well, something that every hero should get to fill those empty inventory slots early in the game, as they're incredibly cheap, cost-efficient stats (three give you nearly a third of an ultimate orb in stats!), and increase your early-game survivability, damage and mana pool by an invaluable amount.
Poor Man's Shield is the best option to consider if you have a friend generous enough to buy you a tango and a salve at the start of the game. It provides some good early game lasthitting power without skipping out on the damage block of the stout shield, which are the things Meepo desperately needs in the early stages of the game.
Situational Starting Items: Wraith Band, Ring of Basilius, Magic Stick
Wraith Band can be a good starting item on Meepo if you're playing with a friend who is willing to pool you regen (ask them, if they're playing support! It's incredibly helpful), or you're sure you're not going to be against anything aggressive. Also, if you random Meepo, the extra gold can be used to pick it up. It helps with your lasthitting quite a bit, offsetting Meepo's appalling starting damage, and also gives you some very cost-efficient stats that can be upgraded into a ring of aquila later (an excellent early game item for Meepo). Ring of Basilius is similar, though a bit more defensive with the armor buff, and can again be upgraded well quite early on. Both of these require you skip a stout shield, however – be careful with these options, and consider starting with a stout shield and some of the parts for either one if you have more money than you normally would.
Magic Stick costs a fair bit of money on top of a stout shield, but if you're against a lane that's going to be incredibly spammy (or you're in mid against a Batrider or Zeus), the burst heal is a lifesaver in huge numbers of situations. The only problem with magic stick and wand on Meepo is that they only heal Meepo Prime – hence, they're mostly early game items and you should consider selling them once you have a reliable source of regen for all Meepos.
Early Game Items: Since Meepo is, at his heart, a farming hero, your early game should focus mostly on items to increase survivability and farming speed.
Pictured: Ring of Basilius, Wraith Band, Ring of Aquila, Boots of Speed
As discussed a bit in the situational starting items, Ring of Basilius is a great item for Meepo early game. The added armor gives him some extra survivability against harassment, and the mana regen allows him to use poof liberally in the early stages of the game to ensure as many lasthits as possible. Wraith Band helps out his poor base damage and combines with your basilius to make a Ring of Aquila, which is an excellent, cost-efficent early game item for any agility hero, as well as providing a nice aura for your Meepos when you want to jungle a little later on.
Boots of Speed are, of course, one of the best items in the game for every hero – for Meepo, they'll allow you to escape easier, move more quickly from camp to camp in the jungle, and chase more aggressively if you're given the chance. Almost all heroes should get these before any big item, and Meepo is no exception. Also, since Meepo's boots are the only item his clones share, nothing else can be as cost-efficient for all five of your Meepos as boots (more on boots later!).
Situational Early Game Items: Magic Stick, Urn of Shadows, Hand of Midas
Magic Stick was again discussed as a possible starting item, but you should be thinking about picking one up all through the early game. As the game progresses and you get more and more Meepos, though, it gets less and less useful, so be cautious with your magic stick pickups – make sure it's something that's actually going to be useful. Upgrading to wand is rarely a good idea on Meepo – use those branches to finish your mek later on instead!
Urn of Shadows is a handy item on Meepo because unlike stick and wand, it lets you heal individual Meepos. However, this is only a really effective item if you get it early and kill lots, so it's a better pickup on a solo mid Meepo than on a safe lane Meepo.
Hand of Midas is a double-edged sword on Meepo. If you can get it incredibly quickly (think around 3 or 4 minutes, if you get first blood and total free farm in your lane), it can accelerate your level 6 significantly and also provide a nice gold boost by around 25 minutes, which is a great time for Meepo to have that advantage. However, he already gets so much experience and gold from the jungle that midas won't accelerate his farm too much beyond level 6, so the later it gets, the worse the item is. Admittedly that could be said for any hero, but it's doubly true for Meepo.
The Boots Dilemma: Your choice of which upgraded boots to buy should again be one of the first item choices you make on any hero. For Meepo, this is especially true, since they're the only items Meepo's clones share, meaning they're the only way to get any true stats other than auras onto your clones until aghanim's scepter. This makes choosing which boots to buy incredibly important, and also tricky since Meepo can use most of the boots available extremely well.
Power Treads, Arcane Boots, Phase Boots, Tranquil Boots, or Boots of Travel?
Arcane Boots are the only boots you should not consider buying on Meepo. His spells don't cost very much mana to begin with, and Meepo's clones are unable to use the active on arcanes, which make them overall the most inferior boots for him.
Phase Boots are more situationally useful on Meepo. They provide a decent amount of bonus damage in the early game, especially when you multiply it by two or three, and the active can be used on every one of your Meepos, which makes chasing with geostrike easier. However, they don't scale very well at all into the late game, and Meepo's specialty is accelerating the late game, so especially for a hard carry Meepo, phase boots are usually a poor option. On a solo mid Meepo, however, they're something to be considered.
Boots of Travel are usually a more late game pickup, and Meepo likes them even more than most carries late game. With boots of travel, Meepo can be everywhere on the map, since all of his Meepos can poof to each other in every lane, meaning he has five available cooldowns for the teleport at any time and can bring all his clones. They can be excellent as a first boots choice on Meepo as well, but keep in mind that they change your role from that of a real hard carry to more of a global ganker and pusher. Again, probably something to be considered more on a solo mid Meepo.
That leaves us with the choice, then, of Power Treads or Tranquil Boots. Of the two, treads are usually preferable, since the HP and attack speed from strength treads on all Meepos is incredibly hard to come by in the mid game for Meepo. Also, they scale better into the late game than any other boot choice. Tranquils are situationally great on most carries – they allow you a lot more freedom in staying in lane and finding farm, as the regen is better than a ring of health for all your Meepos. However, usually you should be looking towards a mekansm in the early game to provide that regen (more on that later), so you should only consider tranquils if you desperately need the regen very early on. Mid Game Items: During the midgame, you should be focusing mostly on items that increase your effectiveness in ganks and fights, while also ensuring you keep jungling as much as is humanly possible. This is the period where you need to start enforcing your will on the game, and your items should reflect that.
Mekansm is a fantastic item on Meepo for a lot of reasons. The first and most obvious is that it gives all of your Meepos a bonus 250 health on command. If you're microing well during ganks, you should be able to pull back hurt Meepos in time and then use your mekansm once a few of them are low to mitigate easily upwards of 500 damage. It also provides a lot of survivability against area spells, which are hard to avoid, even if you don't want to be picking into lots of them.
Second, it provides you amazing regen in the jungle. While you're jungling it's even easier to micro your Meepos around so they take even amounts of damage, which means that every 45 seconds you're able to mitigate 250 damage per Meepo, allowing you to stay in the jungle pretty much indefinitely.
Third, the armor aura is excellent for Meepo. Since you can't find stats any way other than boots or aghanim's for your clones, auras are the next best thing. Combined with a ring of aquila, mekansm provides all of your Meepos with incredible survivability against physical damage.
Fourth, as a hard carry, Meepo is able to get mek at an insanely quick pace. If you're farming well, you can have your mekansm by nine minutes into the game, which means it heals you and your teammates for a huge portion of your relatively low HP pools. It also lets you be more of a presence in fights and ganks, sometimes making the difference in early pushes and teamfights.
Blink Dagger is without question the single most enjoyable item to buy on Meepo. With good micro, blink allows you to poof all of your Meepos into the middle of an engagement out of nowhere, dealing huge amounts of damage and getting all of them up close and personal for net and geostrike to work their magic. Blink dagger gives you more presence on the map than any other item you can buy, letting you run one Meepo around ganking with blink and mek and leaving the others free to farm the jungle, ready to poof in at any time.
Also, again, Meepo can get an incredibly quick blink dagger – after a nine minute mek, a twelve or thirteen minute blink dagger isn't at all out of the question with his farming speed, and your blink-poof combo will deal immense amounts of damage to carries and supports both with three Meepos.
Aghanim's Scepter is the item that makes Meepo the hard carry he was born to be. It adds an extra Meepo, increasing his damage output by 20%, and also allows all Meepos to share 100% of the attributes from items the primary Meepo has. Think of it this way: 100% stat sharing means that every point of agility increases his damage by 5. An ethereal blade (+40 agility) increases Meepo's damage output by 200 per attack. Aghanim's should be obtained as quickly as possible after mekansm and blink dagger. Around 22 minutes is an excellent time to have your scepter.
Situational Mid Game Items: Armlet of Mordiggian, Drum of Endurance, Pipe of Insight, Vladmir's Offering
Armlet of Mordiggian is an interesting item on Meepo. When active, it will grant all of his Meepos the bonus strength, while only affecting Meepo Prime with the health degen. Unforunately, most of the other stats don't transfer to your clones, meaning armlet is basically an HP item that hurts Meepo Prime. However, combined with mek it will make you incredibly tanky in the midgame, and if you're playing a Meepo that isn't needed to be that insane lategame source of DPS, it can provide some cost-efficient midgame strength.
Drum of Endurance and Vladmir's Offering are both strong aura items that also provide a lot of benefit to your team in the mid game, as well as granting some decent stats to all of your Meepos. They delay your scepter by quite a bit again, but it's a similar tradeoff – they provide more strength and support for your team in the 20 – 25 minute region than a Meepo who's building scepter will. Still, it's nicer to let someone else build these if you can, and focus on yourself, as selfish as it seems. An underfarmed Meepo will lose the game as quickly as a well-farmed one will win it.
Pipe of Insight is as close as Meepo can get to building a BKB, providing all of his Meepos with 400 extra HP against spells. It's quite expensive, but also quite beneficial to your team, especially if you're trying to push into their base earlier in the game than you expected. It doesn't provide any stats to your Meepos though, meaning you lose out on a lot of potential damage or health from a better item.
Late Game Items: In the late game, your items should focus on the hard carry's best friend, stats. Agility and strength in particular are a massive boost to Meepo's clones, especially in large doses like most tier four items provide. You are a hard carry, and you should build hard carry items.
Pictured: Heart of Tarrasque, Ethereal Blade, Eye of Skadi
What do all of these items have in common? If you said 'they give you tons of stats' then congratulations, you win. Aghanim's lets all of your Meepos get all of the stats from items, so after that, the most cost-efficient thing to build on Meepo goes from auras and area actives to a hard carry's best friends – agility, strength and (to a lesser extent) intelligence.
This is the one section of this guide where you'll have to excuse me for bringing a lot of numbers into the equation. However, many people labor under the misconception that even with 100% attribute sharing ONLY (which means no damage, no attack speed and no evasion) Butterfly is still a better item for a late game Meepo than Ethereal Blade.
Ethereal blade, over all five of your Meepos, provides 40 attack speed and damage, as well as ~5.7 armor. Overall, this means your Meepos deal a total of 200 more damage per rightclick, with 40% increased attack speed per Meepo, as well as an EHP increase of 6% per point of armor for a total of 34.2% EHP per Meepo against physical attacks.
Butterfly, on the other hand, provides a total of 30 agility, 30 damage, 30 attack speed and 35% evasion. Over four Meepo clones, who only benefit from agility, that gives 120 damage per swing, as well as 60 on Meepo Prime for a total of 180 – 10% less than ethereal blade gave. Also, their average attack speed is lower by 4% per Meepo, and their EHP is as well – ~4.3 armor from agility gives your clones only 25.8% EHP, and when averaged with Meepo Prime's 35% increase from evasion as well as 25.8% from armor, this still gives us overall (25.8*5 +25) 154% total EHP compared to (34.2 * 5) 171% from ethereal blade.
Now, if you didn't like all those numbers you'll have to take it on faith that for EHP and DPS, Ethereal Blade is the better item. But that still doesn't take into account two things.
One, the active is incredible for increasing your already massive poof damage – with one more action, you increase poof damage by 40% as well as adding eblade damage on top of it. If you do it right, people won't even be able to BKB it in time, which means you can take out sometimes half of a carry's health bar before he starts fighting.
Two, it's cheaper than butterfly by 1100 gold, which means your other big ticket items come faster, which is always a good thing. Don't be fooled by its cheap price, as ethereal blade is potentially the best item in the game on Meepo damage-wise while adding a little utility as well.
Heart of Tarrasque is an excellent item on Meepo. Not only does it give you massive amounts of health on all of your Meepos (even though they don't get the extra vitality booster's worth of health, 40 strength is still IMMENSE), it also provides Meepo Prime with a healthy amount of regen. While we don't usually like things that don't affect all of our Meepos, this is one case where we'll make an exception since Meepo Prime is the one that blinks in first and gets focused in big fights. Heart is all-around fantastic on Meepo, letting you stay alive to deal your massive amounts of autoattack damage.
Whether you get ethereal blade or heart first, the other one should usually follow. The combination of the two makes you truly devastating in the late game, and if you sell your mekansm for another big item to follow them up, you become one of the best late game carries there is. Make sure to communicate with your supports to make sure your team doesn't lack a mek for the late game pushes.
That big item is one of the most situational pickups in your entire game, but one of the best all-around items to get if you reach that point is Eye of Skadi. Though most orb effects aren't really useful on Meepo, the attack speed slow makes fighting against another late game carry a lot easier, and the insane amounts of all attributes skadi provides makes all of your Meepos hurt more and tank more damage.
Situational Late Game Items: Manta Style, Assault Cuirass, Butterfly, Vladimir's Offering
Depending on the game, your final item choice can vary a lot. If you don't feel you need the extra HP that skadi gives you and you just want more damage, Butterfly is still a good pickup. It's almost as good as eblade stats-wise, and is still one of the better choices you can make for DPS.
If you want more pushing power, Manta Style is a great item for that. One fun thing about Meepo and manta is that you can poof to your illusions, making manta great for both pushing and teamfight mindgames.
Assault Cuirass is a better option than skadi in terms of sheer tankiness. The aura armor and attack speed is amazing for Meepo – it's easy for him to find stats, but he doesn't have any great source of armor in the lategame besides his agility, and assault cuirass solves that problem. Against a team that's doing a lot of physical damage to you, this is a good pickup, as well as increasing your DPS through both attack speed and negative armor on enemies.
Vladimir's Offering deserves a second mention here. If nobody on your team has bought one (though you should try to convince your supports to get it!), lifesteal on your Meepos is invaluable, and the damage and armor aura are both great for all of your clones as well. Buy this if nobody else is.
If you want to sell your blink dagger, you'll be able to pick up one more of these than usual. Luckily, there are more than enough to keep you entertained. The only thing you need to be careful of is your lack of initiation power in the late game – if you have another strong initiator on your team that can do the job well, you may be better off trading you blink dagger for one of the situational items above. Be careful though – walking into a fight is a lot worse than poofing in, and it's frequently worth it to keep the blink dagger even if you have someone else to start the fights.
VIII. I KNOW JUST THE PLACE TO PLANT YOU - JUNGLING top
Once you hit level 6 with Meepo, poof gives you the ability to clear out a huge chunk of the jungle along with your lane creeps every minute, giving you a massive boost to your gold and experience per minute. Levels 11 and 16, and your scepter, only make that ability even more powerful. This section of the guide will focus on how to outfarm and outlevel enemy heroes most effectively by abusing your jungling potential to its fullest.
The most important thing to realize when you're jungling is that two max-level poofs will clear out most creep camps (or a lane of creeps) with a few extra rightclicks. What this means is that farming the jungle in groups of more than two Meepos is generally ineffective. Even dedicating more than one Meepo to a small camp is unnecessary – better to split them up. The more split up your Meepos are, the more camps you can clear, meaning more gold and levels.
From level 6 to level 11, this means that your farming should mostly consist of poofing the creep wave that comes into lane to clear it as quickly as possible, then doing the same to two or three jungle camps before another wave of lane creeps come. Lane creeps are still worth more gold and experience on average than jungle creeps, so make sure you're not missing out on too many waves of lane creeps, but supplement yourself with four or five creep camps a minute as well. If someone else abandons their lane (most likely mid), feel free to go poof their creep wave too – more gold and experience for you.
If you need to send one Meepo back to heal (either when you first get your second one, or after you take a lot of damage from the jungle), make sure you don't lose too much experience by stacking a large camp on the way home if you can, and stacking the camps you can't clear with the other Meepo. A good jungle stack can ensure you get three large camps' worth of experience you would otherwise have not been able to kill in the minutes they spawned.
Between levels 11 and 16, you should be reaching your mekansm and blink dagger, meaning that you should be looking for ganks as much as possible while still farming with two Meepos in the jungle. Lasthit in your lane with Meepo Prime if you want to – you can clear the whole jungle in a minute with two dedicated Meepos, and still get every last hit in your wave. Use the minimap to poof your jungling Meepos. You don't need to look at them to make them kill jungle camps. Also, this will help keep you aware of the minimap, which is something you can never get enough of.
If there are no gank opportunities, split your Meepos up into groups of two and one, and clear the jungle, sending the one Meepo to a small camp and one medium camp, and the two Meepos to the two large camps and a medium camp. Make sure that on successive clears of the jungle, you rotate which Meepo is tanking most of the damage, so that after two or three you can use your mek and be ready to keep going.
At this point you're also a fearsome pusher. If you see any opportunities to, feel free to bring all your Meepos in to bash down a tower. You will still be able to get all the farm in the wave with poof, and the bonus tower gold is always amazing for both you and your team. Make sure you're not pushing too aggresively, though, by keeping your eyes on the minimap and counting the crosses you see. Are there less than three on the map? Probably shouldn't make yourself that vulnerable by pushing out that empty lane. Farm it and go back to the jungle.
After level 16, you should still be splitting your Meepos up into groups of two. Once you get your fifth Meepo through aghanim's scepter, you can either use him like you used your solo Meepo at level 11 to clear small camps and get some lane farm, or you can use him to establish map presence with your blink dagger, relying on your four clones to farm the jungle for you and provide an escape should you get too deep.
Also something to note is that Meepo has the ability to easily solo Roshan with only level 11 and a mekansm. Pulling back the hurt Meepo and then using mek once they all take enough damage will be more than enough to bring down Roshan at that point in the game, and the gold boost for you and your team is again nice, as well as the invaluabe Aegis of the Immortal. With aegis, Meepo can afford to be incredibly aggressive in the midgame, and as both an initiator and a source of damage, is an excellent carrier for aegis. Blink into entire team with poof, kill a few, die, finish off the rest with net and rightclicks when you respawn. The additional massive boost in experience you get is also a huge benefit.
The micro skill required to play Meepo is one of the most prohibitive aspects of learning the hero (at least for someone with no RTS experience. This is TeamLiquid though). Making sure you're poofing the right Meepos to the right places at the right times, keeping enemies netted forever, or splitting your Meepos' fire between two heroes in order to keep them both slowed are only a few of the things you'll need to master in order to master the hero. This section will introduce you to a few of the most necessary micro tricks needed to play Meepo at an okay level.
Hotkeying: All players will have their own preferred hotkey setups, but a few things are essential to proper Meepo control. You will need to have at least six control groups available to you – one for each of your Meepos and one group for all of them. Having a control group with all of your Meepos in it makes poofing all of them quickly much simpler, and being able to control them individually at all times is necessary for pulling them back when they get hurt. I prefer to use 1 – 5 for all of my Meepos and the space bar for all of them, but I also use space bar for all units on other heroes with summons, so that's more of a habit thing than anything. Whatever works best for you, as long as you have the control you need. The Blink-Poof Combo: Utilizing your blink dagger in combination with your poof to make all of your Meepos appear at the same time in the middle of the enemy, dealing large amounts of damage in the process, is one of the key elements to ganking effectively as Meepo. In combination with the chain net, your surprise Meepo squad can destroy multiple heroes at once, then keep them in place to finish them off. To use it properly, make sure you're poofing your Meepos to Meepo Prime before you blink, for the desired effect of the whole team appearing at once. Also, this will leave your Meepos ready to net sooner, meaning they can follow up the first one without any gaps in the nets which would allow a blink or invis hero to get away.
I use F as my blink hotkey, and space to select all Meepos, so to execute this move properly, I use the following series of keypresses: space – tab – w – click – tab – w – click – tab – w – click – tab – w – click – tab – F – click. This leaves all Meepos at the point you blinked to less than a second after you blink, as long as you make sure Meepo 2 doesn't poof before you blink Meepo Prime in. You have to be quick!
The Chain Net: Following up the blink-poof with a proper chain net is essential to ganking those pesky Bounty Hunters, Anti-Mages and the like. With five Meepos, two second net duration and an eight second cooldown, it's possible to overlap your nets a fair amount and still keep someone netted for as long as all your Meepos have mana. When you're ganking someone who can get away easily, it's better to be safe than sorry – overlap your nets lots to make sure they don't get away. The keypresses for this one are simpler so I won't go through them in specific order like I did with poof – just use your net with one Meepo, tab to the next, wait a second, then net again.
Some Tricks To Save Your Life in Sticky Situations: When you're in trouble as Meepo, you have incredible numbers of options. Geostrike allows a few high-health Meepos to keep enemies there while the low health ones escape, as does net. Make sure your Meepos that are remaining focus the right hero so they can't catch you, but also be certain you don't accidentally bring the Meepo you're trying to run away back into the fight – be quick with your fingers to make sure you don't mess up!
Once the low-health Meepo is safe, poof your distraction Meepos back to him and return to base to heal – or go do other things, depending on how low health they all are. Don't waste any time you don't have to.
If you realize you're getting ganked and you don't have anywhere to poof to because you're all there, split your Meepos preemptively. When they follow one for a while, poof him to another one in a safe place, then return to farming like it's nobody's business. Poof is an easy out as long as you don't get caught all together. Again, divide and conquer.
X. WHO'S THE TOUGH GUY NOW, TOUGH GUY? - FRIENDS, ENEMIES AND FOOD top
Meepo, as situational as he is, has problems with a lot of heroes. A lot of the information covered here was also covered a bit in the when to pick section, so this section will focus mostly on a few specific heroes that make Meepo's life vastly easier or harder.
There are a couple of things that Meepo really loves to have on his team. The one that is most important for a hard carry Meepo is a good lane support. He doesn't have a lot of lane presence, so supports who are able to help him stand in lane and exert their presence without much help from him are fantastic. Also worth noting are the excellent aura supports Vengeful Spirit and Beastmaster – their damage and attack speed auras are incredibly good for Meepo late game, and Venge in particular with her setup stun is also a good laning partner for a Meepo who wants to be a bit aggressive.
As has already been discussed at length, big area stuns and damage are terrible for Meepo. Earthshaker gets a special mention because echo slam absolutely destroys Meepo, and Undying for the same reason: every Meepo is counted as a unit for the purposes of echo slam and tombstone. Faceless Void's chronosphere, Tidehunter's ravage, and Enigma's black hole are all examples of things that will destroy you after you poof in all ready to kill, and Luna and Sven will cleave through all of your Meepos before you have a chance to pull any of them back.
Since earthbind prevents invisibility and blink, heroes like Clinkz, Bounty Hunter and Anti-Mage who rely on those things to escape are especially juicy food for Meepo. A good chain net absolutely destroys a Clinkz or a Bounty with some poof on top, and even Anti-Mage's spell shield can't resist the might of five heroes autoattacking. Heroes who rely on single-target disables and nukes are also at a disadvantage against Meepo, such as Bane or Shadow Shaman. Tinker is not only reliant on those single-target abilities, but Meepo also has the ability to beat him at his own game with immense split push and global presence.
XI. OH, NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! - REPLAYS top
In this section I've collected a few replays of my Meepo games. I usually follow the item build outlined in this guide pretty well, and I also execute my jungling and ganks fairly well, which are some of the places you will most probably need demostration to understand what I'm talking about. I apologize in advance if I don't blink-poof perfectly in some of these games (poofing after my blink) - I used to be a noob.
Match ID: 103614056 Match ID: 79882505 Match ID: 73221883 Match ID: 71473683
Unfortunately it's difficult to find VODs or replays of pro players playing Meepo - if you want a treat, Jeyo and SingSing play him sometimes on their stream, and they're AMAZING Meepo players, of course. Also, there was that one game where Na'Vi picked him against some team they were going to destroy and Dendi played him in mid - unfortunately I don't have a link to that VOD but if anybody knows where it is I'll edit it in right away!
Learning to play Meepo is a challenge anyone aspiring to be a better Dota player should undertake. Playing Meepo well requires a lot of skills that will translate well into whatever other hero you play – after playing Meepo for a while with the goals outlined in this guide in mind, you'll find that you watch the minimap more, lasthit better, and have a better awareness of how the game is evolving around you, among many other things. If you managed to make it this far into this long a piece of writing without tearing your hair out, thank you for reading! I hope it helps at least a few players start on the path to playing a solid Meepo – he truly is the most enjoyable hero in the game in my opinion, and if you love him, he can be one of them for you too. If you're thinking about playing Meepo but you're not sure, I encourage you to try it out! It will be hard for a while, but it will be a lot of fun in the end.
On February 09 2013 19:48 BurningSera wrote: First thing i noticed is that there is no kunkka is the enemy section??D:
Look like some good effort you put in there. Should be a good read that I am looking forward to do that later
Well, you can't talk about every hero in the game with some sorth of physical aoe in on little section =P hopefully after reading this guide you're not picking Meepo into Kunkka too frequently (unless you really think you're good at juking torrents) without having to have it spelled out for you.
On February 09 2013 20:10 Vaelone wrote: Well thats pretty massive guide, I know where to look at if I ever want to learn to Meepo.
Geostrike first instead of earthbind irks me. The reason Geostrike becomes amazing late game is because it stacks and you have many meepos to stack it. Early game you will only have one or two meepos and having extra levels won't change much. I still get a level of it early though, sometimes at level 1 to help last hit if I'm 100% safe from early ganks.
Keep in mind that leveling earthbind doesn't just increase the range but drastically reduces the cool down as well.
Other than that, brilliant guide, looks like you put a lot of work into it. Props!
#1 Net over geostrike is the more common skill build. You desperately need the range more than some additional slow/DoT. #2 Your early game goal pretty much can be summed up as "Tranquils asap". Wraithband and Aquila are both awkward items since they delay his T2 boots. If your lane is hard Tranquils beat both of those items, if your lane is easy a QB does everything for you that you want. It should also be noted that if there is a hero you want to start with 2 branches+ONLY tangos+salves, it's Meepo. His laning is just that shitty against pretty much anyone.
In terms of boots you later disassemble Tranquils for Treads+Mek.
By the point you have Aghs/Treads/Mek (Blink, while strong, is still situational depending on the teamcomps) Armlet and Drums are crappy items because they aren't slot effective at all. Vlads before Aghs is still strong, mostly because it allows you to be a constant Roshan threat and eases up your jungle farming even more.
Pipe on Meepo again is awkward because we're talking about a hero who pretty much has 3 slots (Aghs, Treads, TP Boots) reserved by default.
Itemwise I would round it out lategame with Heart, AC/Skadi/Bfly/Eblade are a good addition. Thanks for the math on Eblade vs Bfly!
On February 10 2013 00:04 Erasme wrote: I thought that Meepo wasnt afraid of aoe but more of single target damage like laguna or finger
thats the common 'pub misconception'. Yes, high burst nukes counter meepo but only for a small period of timing window and at the same time these fragile INT heroes are actually the food for meepo. In a fairly even game provided the meepo is not playing at disadvantage, lina/lion's burst has limited use in killing meepo after about 20mins (since meepo's level should be higher than the average levels of the opponents) while meepo will kill lion/lina etc in a blink (especially with the help of team mate).
That's why Luna is actually not that good vs meepo especially when luna didnt have her levels/items (she needs to be at equal or higher level than meepo). My favourite counter is Kunkka for meepo because splash/torrent hurts and most importantly his ghostship directly counters poof or even X mark can screw with that escaping meepo.
On February 09 2013 22:23 Firebolt145 wrote: Geostrike first instead of earthbind irks me. The reason Geostrike becomes amazing late game is because it stacks and you have many meepos to stack it. Early game you will only have one or two meepos and having extra levels won't change much. I still get a level of it early though, sometimes at level 1 to help last hit if I'm 100% safe from early ganks.
Keep in mind that leveling earthbind doesn't just increase the range but drastically reduces the cool down as well.
Other than that, brilliant guide, looks like you put a lot of work into it. Props!
I kind of touched on this in the skills section but I'll talk a bit more about it - when you're ganking with three Meepos at level 11 (which is when you have either geostrike or earthbind maxed), you should already have your blink dagger, and with good aim with your blinks you should be able to get in close without needing the max blink range. Also, with three Meepos at level 11, it provides you with 94 damage per second and a 60% slow, which I don't think anyone can argue is a pretty rock-solid passive to have leveled up by level 11.
Reducing the cooldown on net is awesome but only once you really start wanting to have someone permanently netted. In ganks and teamfights for the first half hour of the game, the four or six second duration you get from three nets is almost always enough to do what you need to do, and I find that I get more utility out of leveling geostrike first.
That being said, everything is situational, and if you think I'm a bad and you want to level net first every game even after reading this, go ahead - there are certainly times when it's more useful and I'm not trying to say you should follow everything in this guide 100%. It's a guide, not a bible.
On February 10 2013 00:04 Erasme wrote: I thought that Meepo wasnt afraid of aoe but more of single target damage like laguna or finger
thats the common 'pub misconception'. Yes, high burst nukes counter meepo but only for a small period of timing window and at the same time these fragile INT heroes are actually the food for meepo. In a fairly even game provided the meepo is not playing at disadvantage, lina/lion's burst has limited use in killing meepo after about 20mins (since meepo's level should be higher than the average levels of the opponents) while meepo will kill lion/lina etc in a blink (especially with the help of team mate). .
Basically this - I was going to type something like that out but BurningSera covered it pretty well.
On February 10 2013 02:56 r.Evo wrote: #1 Net over geostrike is the more common skill build. You desperately need the range more than some additional slow/DoT. #2 Your early game goal pretty much can be summed up as "Tranquils asap". Wraithband and Aquila are both awkward items since they delay his T2 boots. If your lane is hard Tranquils beat both of those items, if your lane is easy a QB does everything for you that you want. It should also be noted that if there is a hero you want to start with 2 branches+ONLY tangos+salves, it's Meepo. His laning is just that shitty against pretty much anyone.
Already talked about my thoughts on net vs geo, and I also talked about treads vs. tranquils in the guide itself, so let me just say this - I think Aquila is a great item for Meepo in the jungle because of the passive mana regen and armor it gives to all your Meepos, giving them more EHP and mana in the jungle, translating to more stayability. Also, I did discuss the need to sometimes buy more regen than you would really expect.
On February 10 2013 02:56 r.Evo wrote:
In terms of boots you later disassemble Tranquils for Treads+Mek.
By the point you have Aghs/Treads/Mek (Blink, while strong, is still situational depending on the teamcomps) Armlet and Drums are crappy items because they aren't slot effective at all. Vlads before Aghs is still strong, mostly because it allows you to be a constant Roshan threat and eases up your jungle farming even more.
Pipe on Meepo again is awkward because we're talking about a hero who pretty much has 3 slots (Aghs, Treads, TP Boots) reserved by default.
I agree - that's why in most of the items section, I talked about a few times you might want to pick up an armlet or drums before your aghs, but mostly focused on core item timings and items, leaving those ones for situational items. Pipe I think can still be pretty useful for you late game, thought there are usually better options. I should also probably mention disassembling tranquils into treads + mek, it's an excellent option.
On February 10 2013 02:56 r.Evo wrote: Itemwise I would round it out lategame with Heart, AC/Skadi/Bfly/Eblade are a good addition. Thanks for the math on Eblade vs Bfly!
60% slow sounds great, but an AoE disable on each Meepo with an 8 second cooldown sounds even more amazing. Range aside, the cooldown decrease alone makes maxing Earthbind a much bigger deal early game. It's not only about perma netting one target, it's also about just covering the entire screen in nets every few seconds. Geostrike is pretty much only single target at that point.
Regarding Aquila; the Basilius aura is obviously amazing on Meepo. The problem with Aquila is that the Wraith band is pretty unnecessary, that 485 gold is better off towards a headress etc.
On February 10 2013 06:35 Firebolt145 wrote: 60% slow sounds great, but an AoE disable on each Meepo with an 8 second cooldown sounds even more amazing. Range aside, the cooldown decrease alone makes maxing Earthbind a much bigger deal early game. It's not only about perma netting one target, it's also about just covering the entire screen in nets every few seconds. Geostrike is pretty much only single target at that point.
Well, like I said, it's totally up to you which build you use - all I'm trying to do with this guide is give new players starting with Meepo a good reference point. I don't generally find engagements lasting long enough to need more than one net per Meepo at that level, but I do sometimes level net before geostrike and I will never every say it's a bad idea, which is why I talked about it in the skill builds section. Generally, I prefer maxing geo first - but if you don't that's cool too.
On February 10 2013 06:35 Firebolt145 wrote: Regarding Aquila; the Basilius aura is obviously amazing on Meepo. The problem with Aquila is that the Wraith band is pretty unnecessary, that 485 gold is better off towards a headress etc.
Yeah, true - however, like described in the starting items section, a lot of the time I end up picking up a wraith band to help with my early lasthitting in lane, so finishing my aquila is the logical step. Skipping the wraith band isn't necessarily a bad idea by any means.
EDIT:
On February 09 2013 22:26 kaykaykay wrote: Should you include how you can customise your dota 2 to have all meepos poof with one key?
Macros are as far as I know not allowed in Dota 2, so I didn't bother covering them in the guide. Learn to use the tab key =P
I used to have a problem blink-poofing, but I found a solution as of a couple patches ago, although I haven't played meepo for a long time so idk if it still works like this. Instead of poofing to your main meepo and then mistiming and everybody poofing to the second meepo who pops in there too early leaving your main out in the dark, you actually target your poof at wherever you're going to blink. that way even if you mistime it a little most of your meepos will be there to backup your main
another thing you might want to consider is throwing in a youtube "how to" or just description of netting people, netting areas, and demonstration of net rotation
On February 10 2013 16:59 KurtistheTurtle wrote: another thing you might want to consider is throwing in a youtube "how to" or just description of netting people, netting areas, and demonstration of net rotation
Yeah, that's generally what the 'replays' section is for - if you need a more in-depth demonstration of most of the techniques I talk about in the guide, that's where you should be heading. I'll work on expanding it some though - it could definitely include some pro player's VODs or (even better) FPVODs.
Generally, the poof trick is nice if you're slow with your poofs but you should be trying to go fast enough that your later Meepos don't have a choice of Meepo 1 or 2 because they're all in the middle of the fight anyways. If you have real problems with leaving Meepos behind because they poof too fast, then maybe you should also consider just blinking in first - it won't get you a perfect chain net but it will do the job pretty well without leaving anyone behind.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Glad most people are enjoying it, hopefully someone out there picks up Meepo because of this guide =)
I've been trying like mad to get your replays to work but they just won't load, don't exist, or won't launch once I've dl'ed. Do you have any from this patch version?
and while I agree with the "if you don't have fast enough fingers then you should be practicing with this hero" sentiment, the poof trick is probably worthy of mention
On February 10 2013 17:41 KurtistheTurtle wrote: I've been trying like mad to get your replays to work but they just won't load, don't exist, or won't launch once I've dl'ed. Do you have any from this patch version?
and while I agree with the "if you don't have fast enough fingers then you should be practicing with this hero" sentiment, the poof trick is probably worthy of mention
Okay, so I've been playing Meepo all night tonight in an attempt to get some good replays that demonstrate most of the stuff I talked about in this guide and I managed to pick up a few - I'm only happy with one of them really so I'm not going to edit the OP just yet until I have a few more that I really like but for now, here are three halfway decent Meepo games.
Match ID: 122397800 - I have a bit of a rough early game in this one and don't get the farm or levels I'd like early but still manage to have a pretty decent impact on the late game. Item timings are pretty off in this one due to that but some of the mechanical stuff like blink-poofing and chain netting can be pretty good to watch if you're trying to learn, as well as jungling techniques.
Match ID: 122375640 - I play way too aggressively at the start of this game with the result that my items are again pretty slow, but I do a bit better than in the first one and end up with a way better score. I was also more warmed up since the first one was my first game of the day =P Also forgot until I actually watched this one to check it that one of my friends decided picking support Sven with my Meepo was a great idea and I yelled at him a lot. It was a pretty rough early game for that reason mostly.
Match ID: 122456424 - this one was my only really good game of the night farm-wise - our solo mid Enchantress was raping (he's actually one of my real life friends) so I had tons of room in the early game and once the midgame rolled around I was really into a good roll. My mechanical stuff was also way more on par in this game, and this game probably has the best examples out of the three of big initiations in the midgame with blink-poof-chain net on three or four heroes really dominating a lot of fights combined with mek.
Hopefully this is enough to last you until I can find a few more really good replays to edit into the OP! You should be able to get a decent idea of most of the stuff I talk about, especially from the last replay, though it's not as good of a game =P
Awesome guide! I love playing meepo, just started practicing him a week ago since I ended up feeding like fuck in a random game. Apart from the awkward unit selection system in dota 2, playing him is extremely fun. And having five rats pop up out of nowhere and starting to wave shovels around seems to hilarious to me and I cry with laughter everytime I successfully pull off a blink poof gank perfectly.
Also my head is full of poofing rats when I try to sleep.
First of all, thanks for the guide. Hes really well written and we feel that u enjoy playing 'em. I'm a total noob with this hero. I always random in AP so i play him only 3/4 time since i get Dota2 (6month or so). So this morning i start a game and .. MEEPO's POP on my screen ! so i decided to follow ur guide. And it work pretty good. I mean i was not a pure carry, but i was 10/10/21. It's not a good score, but i learned a lot.
Here is my feedback : 1. You have to change your shortcuts 2. What u imagine in your head is not what your finger does ! I fail 4/5 times with combo dagger/poof :D The timing is hard to find ! 3. With a little bit practice, Jungling is easy 4. This hero need a lot of practice 5. It's not so hard to farm woods with meepo n°2 & meepo n°3 when your prime is laning 6. One of my amte tell me to make Medaillon of Courage for early gank, what do u think about that ?
That's a disgusting skill build. Net is always more important than Geostrike. There's even some arguments about not skilling Geo at all, but I think that's irrelevant.
Meepo is not exactly your standard farming hero. Gold comes naturally to you. What's more important is levels. The only basic items you need are those that get you to level 6. Don't waste gold on wraith bands, stick etc. They're useless. Tranquil is a good item, but if you can, rush BoT. If you're not getting TB or BoT, then the only other boots of choice is Treads. Nothing else.
Your only core item is Blink Dagger. Alternative, you can get Shadowblade. They both achieve similar results, but I would say Shadowblade is more effective in pubs. These 2 items allow you to net solo kills very easily after you're level 11 or 16.
Mek is ok, but not absolutely necessary. Vlads too. The most stupid thing you can do is to go Vlads first. It's either BoT first, Mek first, or Blink/Shadowblade first. Nothing else. Vlads is for late game. Even then like Mek, you can skip it entirely given how broken Agha is.
Without a doubt, after Blink your next item is Agha. Again, never rush an Agha. It's pointless to do so, as you're just 4-5 walking Meepos throwing obvious Nets. After Agha, stack Reavers. Then go all Heart. I don't think Skadi is that good, and I forgot if the Bloodstone bug got fixed. Nonetheless, after Agha it's pretty straightforward to stack HP.
Remember that you shouldn't be farming all day for your max items. You are not a hard carry. You peak when you're level 11/16. There's limit to what you can do. Meepo is all about securing a ridiculous advantage when he has such a gigantic level difference against the enemy. With BoT, you have global presence as well.
Small note: Ghost Scepter absolutely counters Meepo. You can't net when the enemy is decrepify. Likewise, Decrepify allows a netted hero to walk out.
On February 12 2013 01:46 DucK- wrote: That's a disgusting skill build. Net is always more important than Geostrike. There's even some arguments about not skilling Geo at all, but I think that's irrelevant.
If that's what you think that's cool, but I've had a ton of success with leveling geo after one level in net - I've never in this thread once said that going net before geo is a bad decision if you read my comments, just that I prefer geo over net.
EDIT: One thing I think many people aren't paying attention to when they talk about net over geo is that geostrike actually recieved a significant DPS buff in 6.75 along with the scepter changes, so if you haven't played Meepo in a while, geostrike used to be a lot worse than it is now.
On February 12 2013 01:46 DucK- wrote: Meepo is not exactly your standard farming hero. Gold comes naturally to you. What's more important is levels. The only basic items you need are those that get you to level 6. Don't waste gold on wraith bands, stick etc. They're useless. Tranquil is a good item, but if you can, rush BoT. If you're not getting TB or BoT, then the only other boots of choice is Treads. Nothing else.
Here you're saying pretty much exactly what I say in the guide - just because I mention a few times you might want to think about picking up phase boots, doesn't mean I'm saying they're usually a better boot choice than tranqs, treads or travels. The only thing I disagree with is the 'don't waste gold on wraith bands, stick etc' - the couple hundred gold you spend on these items is literally nothing to you at the end of the game with 700+ GPM, and the stick in particular can be invaluable in the early game.
On February 12 2013 01:46 DucK- wrote:
Your only core item is Blink Dagger. Alternative, you can get Shadowblade. They both achieve similar results, but I would say Shadowblade is more effective in pubs. These 2 items allow you to net solo kills very easily after you're level 11 or 16.
Shadowblade is not a great item on Meepo - the fun times you can have with the poof combo when Meepo Prime is invisible is pretty cool, but as an item that's more than 50% again as expensive as blink dagger and doesn't give any useful stats to your other Meepos at all I feel like it's more a waste of money than anything.
On February 12 2013 01:46 DucK- wrote: Mek is ok, but not absolutely necessary. Vlads too. The most stupid thing you can do is to go Vlads first. It's either BoT first, Mek first, or Blink/Shadowblade first. Nothing else. Vlads is for late game. Even then like Mek, you can skip it entirely given how broken Agha is.
Mek is really good, but I do agree it's not necessary, especially if someone else on your team is able to get it quickly. Vlads is definitely for late game and someone else should get it if possible. That being said, I would never say 'nothing else' is a viable option, especially since I talk in the guide a decent amount about a solo mid Meepo whose skill and item builds can vary a lot from your usual items and skills, and I would consider picking up an earlier vlads along with bt's for some extreme midgame pushing power.
On February 12 2013 01:46 DucK- wrote:
Without a doubt, after Blink your next item is Agha. Again, never rush an Agha. It's pointless to do so, as you're just 4-5 walking Meepos throwing obvious Nets. After Agha, stack Reavers. Then go all Heart. I don't think Skadi is that good, and I forgot if the Bloodstone bug got fixed. Nonetheless, after Agha it's pretty straightforward to stack HP.
You're talking in absolutes that just aren't always true. 'Never rush an agha' is not necessarily a good decision - if you are trying to skimp on your midgame presence with the intention of being a true hard carry in the late game, rushing scepter can increase your farm speed by a lot and make you a rightclick DPS force to be feared extremely early. Stacking reavers is a terrible decision - it grants you nothing but HP, which is important but you also need to be doing damage at this point in the game. Skadi is a fantastic item as it gives you a reaver's worth of strength and the same in int and agi - better than stacking HP in just about every conceivable way. AC will also provide you with more tankiness for your buck than a second heart will, on top of increasing (again) your DPS.
On February 12 2013 01:46 DucK- wrote:
Remember that you shouldn't be farming all day for your max items. You are not a hard carry. You peak when you're level 11/16. There's limit to what you can do. Meepo is all about securing a ridiculous advantage when he has such a gigantic level difference against the enemy. With BoT, you have global presence as well.
Small note: Ghost Scepter absolutely counters Meepo. You can't net when the enemy is decrepify. Likewise, Decrepify allows a netted hero to walk out.
This I disagree with pretty completely. You shouldn't be doing the Anti-Mage thing and literally ignoring your team until half an hour has gone by, but you should ALWAYS be focused on getting farm and getting levels - your flash farm ability and great scaling of damage into the late game make you one of the hardest carries in the game. I agree that Meepo's about securing a ridiculous advantage in the mid-late game, but one of the ways you are able to do that is by taking advantage of the fact that you can always be farming as well as doing other things.
Thanks for the reminder about ghost scepter, I'll edit the guide in a day or two with that info + some more replays.
On February 12 2013 00:18 VelJa wrote: First of all, thanks for the guide. Hes really well written and we feel that u enjoy playing 'em. I'm a total noob with this hero. I always random in AP so i play him only 3/4 time since i get Dota2 (6month or so). So this morning i start a game and .. MEEPO's POP on my screen ! so i decided to follow ur guide. And it work pretty good. I mean i was not a pure carry, but i was 10/10/21. It's not a good score, but i learned a lot.
Here is my feedback : 1. You have to change your shortcuts 2. What u imagine in your head is not what your finger does ! I fail 4/5 times with combo dagger/poof :D The timing is hard to find ! 3. With a little bit practice, Jungling is easy 4. This hero need a lot of practice 5. It's not so hard to farm woods with meepo n°2 & meepo n°3 when your prime is laning 6. One of my amte tell me to make Medaillon of Courage for early gank, what do u think about that ?
Glad you had fun! Meepo is awesome =) you do DEFINITELY have to change your hotkeys up, and work a lot on getting the dagger-poof right, but it's so fun once you do. You're also right about it not being too tricky to jungle without paying much attention to the Meepos in the jungle once you get a little practice - eventually you'll just start doing it using the minimap automatically.
As far as medallion goes, it doesn't really provide anything useful to your Meepos besides a bit of mana regen and armor on Meepo Prime - since you're really not lacking either mana or armor in the early game (Meepo's starting armor is really high), neither of those is great on him, and the active isn't really worth the 1k gold that could be half of your mek.
I do love medallion as a really cost-efficient ganking item on heroes like Bounty Hunter, but I just don't think it works with Meepo very well.
Shadowblade is not a great item on Meepo - the fun times you can have with the poof combo when Meepo Prime is invisible is pretty cool, but as an item that's more than 50% again as expensive as blink dagger and doesn't give any useful stats to your other Meepos at all I feel like it's more a waste of money than anything.
The main idea for Blink/Shadowblade is to initiate against a lone hero. Invis is the best thing to have in pubs, because pubs take a damn long while to decide to get Sentries/Gem. Blink requires you to initiate from fog, whereas Shadowblade doesn't. Shadowblade is generally better for the initiation. They both serve the same purpose, and in a pub environment Shadowblade easily outclass Blink.
Mek is really good, but I do agree it's not necessary, especially if someone else on your team is able to get it quickly. Vlads is definitely for late game and someone else should get it if possible. That being said, I would never say 'nothing else' is a viable option, especially since I talk in the guide a decent amount about a solo mid Meepo whose skill and item builds can vary a lot from your usual items and skills, and I would consider picking up an earlier vlads along with bt's for some extreme midgame pushing power.
Vlads first is still junk, because you won't at all be pushing that early with Meepo. There is really nothing else you should get first on Meepo. It's Mek vs BoT vs Blink/Shadowblade. Very rarely would you want to go for Agha, but in pubs you should never do so.
You're talking in absolutes that just aren't always true. 'Never rush an agha' is not necessarily a good decision - if you are trying to skimp on your midgame presence with the intention of being a true hard carry in the late game, rushing scepter can increase your farm speed by a lot and make you a rightclick DPS force to be feared extremely early. Stacking reavers is a terrible decision - it grants you nothing but HP, which is important but you also need to be doing damage at this point in the game. Skadi is a fantastic item as it gives you a reaver's worth of strength and the same in int and agi - better than stacking HP in just about every conceivable way. AC will also provide you with more tankiness for your buck than a second heart will, on top of increasing (again) your DPS.
First and foremost, Meepo is not a hard carry. He is quite crap when the enemy carry gets their items. What he is good at is gaining such a huge gold/exp advantage, that the enemy carry cannot compete with him. You should never think of Meepo as unstoppable with max items, for he is no PL.
I do agree that Agha improves your farm speed. That is the only reason you get Agha first. But for its price you can get Mek + Blink. You can't rely on your teammates too much in pubs. Farming hard/turtling with Meepo won't grant you the advantage. You need to participate preferably from level 11, and Agha doesn't allow you that. You are not a right click DPS force, because you should never be able to deal significant right click in the first place. Even if you went your Geostrike build for the extra DPS, you will never be able to land your nets with 500 range. Your main damage comes from Poof, which you can't deal without your nets. You need additional items, which means needing to turtle/farm more.
Skadi doesn't add that much damage to Meepo. It can be gotten, but the stats to Agi/Int isn't that significant as many claim. Meepo doesn't right click hard with items. He does so due to level advantage. After a certain window, his DPS isn't fantastic at all. You can finish your heart, or go 3 Reavers. It's the same thing actually.
I'm not certain of the mechanics between AC and Vlad in Dota 2, but for WC3 AC's armour aura doesn't stack with Vlad. For that reason, AC is a horrible item as all it provides is 20 attack speed to the other Meepos if you had Vlads. And the -Armour is something a simple MoC provides. For that price, AC is a junk item on Meepo. If the Armour aura does stack in Dota 2, then it makes AC from a junk item to an alright item. Stacking Heart still gives better benefits.
This I disagree with pretty completely. You shouldn't be doing the Anti-Mage thing and literally ignoring your team until half an hour has gone by, but you should ALWAYS be focused on getting farm and getting levels - your flash farm ability and great scaling of damage into the late game make you one of the hardest carries in the game. I agree that Meepo's about securing a ridiculous advantage in the mid-late game, but one of the ways you are able to do that is by taking advantage of the fact that you can always be farming as well as doing other things.
Thanks for the reminder about ghost scepter, I'll edit the guide in a day or two with that info + some more replays.
What you said was what I meant actually. Don't do the anti-mage thing. Join your teammates with your main meepo. Farm/splitpush with the rest.
One last final remark which I forgot. Hex is a very good and common extension for Meepo. Pre Agha buff, Hex is gotten most of the time after Blink + Mek. Remember that building Meepo as a right click DPS is futile, for he is never going to have comparable output as your traditional DPS hard carry. Meepo carries in a totally different way
Shadowblade is not a great item on Meepo - the fun times you can have with the poof combo when Meepo Prime is invisible is pretty cool, but as an item that's more than 50% again as expensive as blink dagger and doesn't give any useful stats to your other Meepos at all I feel like it's more a waste of money than anything.
The main idea for Blink/Shadowblade is to initiate against a lone hero. Invis is the best thing to have in pubs, because pubs take a damn long while to decide to get Sentries/Gem. Blink requires you to initiate from fog, whereas Shadowblade doesn't. Shadowblade is generally better for the initiation. They both serve the same purpose, and in a pub environment Shadowblade easily outclass Blink.
If you use Blink effectively, I still think it provides the exact same if not better utility than shadowblade for initiation purposes, without the risk of getting coutered by dust/sentries, as well as being cheaper. If you want to build shadowblade I'm not going to say it's bad, but I think blink is theoretically better.
Mek is really good, but I do agree it's not necessary, especially if someone else on your team is able to get it quickly. Vlads is definitely for late game and someone else should get it if possible. That being said, I would never say 'nothing else' is a viable option, especially since I talk in the guide a decent amount about a solo mid Meepo whose skill and item builds can vary a lot from your usual items and skills, and I would consider picking up an earlier vlads along with bt's for some extreme midgame pushing power.
Vlads first is still junk, because you won't at all be pushing that early with Meepo. There is really nothing else you should get first on Meepo. It's Mek vs BoT vs Blink/Shadowblade. Very rarely would you want to go for Agha, but in pubs you should never do so.
I agree vlads first is not a good idea, I said I would consider picking it up earlier that the last item in my build. I totally agree with everything you said here.
You're talking in absolutes that just aren't always true. 'Never rush an agha' is not necessarily a good decision - if you are trying to skimp on your midgame presence with the intention of being a true hard carry in the late game, rushing scepter can increase your farm speed by a lot and make you a rightclick DPS force to be feared extremely early. Stacking reavers is a terrible decision - it grants you nothing but HP, which is important but you also need to be doing damage at this point in the game. Skadi is a fantastic item as it gives you a reaver's worth of strength and the same in int and agi - better than stacking HP in just about every conceivable way. AC will also provide you with more tankiness for your buck than a second heart will, on top of increasing (again) your DPS.
First and foremost, Meepo is not a hard carry. He is quite crap when the enemy carry gets their items. What he is good at is gaining such a huge gold/exp advantage, that the enemy carry cannot compete with him. You should never think of Meepo as unstoppable with max items, for he is no PL.
I do agree that Agha improves your farm speed. That is the only reason you get Agha first. But for its price you can get Mek + Blink. You can't rely on your teammates too much in pubs. Farming hard/turtling with Meepo won't grant you the advantage. You need to participate preferably from level 11, and Agha doesn't allow you that. You are not a right click DPS force, because you should never be able to deal significant right click in the first place. Even if you went your Geostrike build for the extra DPS, you will never be able to land your nets with 500 range. Your main damage comes from Poof, which you can't deal without your nets. You need additional items, which means needing to turtle/farm more.
The argument that Meepo is not a hard carry isn't a great one. He doesn't compete with a lategame Spectre or Medusa, no, but I just spent a good while in practice games comparing Meepo's 1v1 lategame capabilities with several different classic hard carries, and Meepo has the ability to out-DPS everything but the incredibly lategame carries. In straight up damage considerations, Meepo is comparable to PL in theoretical single-target DPS since the aghanim's buff (I just tried 6 slotted Meepo vs 6 slotted PL in a bot game, and with no abilities and no micro but focus fire, Meepo brings a PL with heart down to less than 500 health extremely consistently in a rightclick war - with micro (ie. a single eblade poof) he easily wins the fight). Against anyone but a Faceless Void, Medusa, Spectre or 12-slotted Lone Druid, Meepo wins. He outcarries Antimage, Lifestealer, Phantom Assassin, Lifestealer... the list goes on and on.
On February 12 2013 05:37 DucK- wrote: Skadi doesn't add that much damage to Meepo. It can be gotten, but the stats to Agi/Int isn't that significant as many claim. Meepo doesn't right click hard with items. He does so due to level advantage. After a certain window, his DPS isn't fantastic at all. You can finish your heart, or go 3 Reavers. It's the same thing actually.
I'm not certain of the mechanics between AC and Vlad in Dota 2, but for WC3 AC's armour aura doesn't stack with Vlad. For that reason, AC is a horrible item as all it provides is 20 attack speed to the other Meepos if you had Vlads. And the -Armour is something a simple MoC provides. For that price, AC is a junk item on Meepo. If the Armour aura does stack in Dota 2, then it makes AC from a junk item to an alright item. Stacking Heart still gives better benefits.
No, Skadi doesn't add an incredible amount of damage to Meepo compared to eblade, butterfly, AC and the like, but it does add an insane amount of survivability and anti-carry, allowing him to even better handle a lot of lategame carries at their own game.
AC does stack with Vlads. And the EHP increase from armor, being a percentage of your total HP, goes up as your total HP goes up - if you have 3.5k HP (around what you can have with heart + skadi), every point of armor adds 6% of your 3.5k HP in EHP vs. physical attacks. 3500 * 6% = 210 EHP per point of armor, and with the 15 armor that AC adds, you gain 3150 EHP from AC compared to 1060 from heart. As you continue to stack hearts, the funny thing is that by the same token, AC becomes a better and better choice - it's better than a second heart, but it's even MORE better than a third heart.
This I disagree with pretty completely. You shouldn't be doing the Anti-Mage thing and literally ignoring your team until half an hour has gone by, but you should ALWAYS be focused on getting farm and getting levels - your flash farm ability and great scaling of damage into the late game make you one of the hardest carries in the game. I agree that Meepo's about securing a ridiculous advantage in the mid-late game, but one of the ways you are able to do that is by taking advantage of the fact that you can always be farming as well as doing other things.
Thanks for the reminder about ghost scepter, I'll edit the guide in a day or two with that info + some more replays.
What you said was what I meant actually. Don't do the anti-mage thing. Join your teammates with your main meepo. Farm/splitpush with the rest.
One last final remark which I forgot. Hex is a very good and common extension for Meepo. Pre Agha buff, Hex is gotten most of the time after Blink + Mek. Remember that building Meepo as a right click DPS is futile, for he is never going to have comparable output as your traditional DPS hard carry. Meepo carries in a totally different way
I can see what you mean by it being a good addition to Meepo especially pre-aghs buff - the lockdown is nice on anyone and the stats are pretty good even though the int doesn't do a whole lot for you. However, I just think there are so many better item choices that there are almost no cases where you'd want to get it over the other things available - that being said, again something I'd consider on a solo mid Meepo where your role isn't that super-lategame DPS but rather secondary DPS, lockdown and initiation and things like that.
EDIT:
On February 12 2013 00:59 FreeZer wrote: If you poof away from a creep camp with your last meepo, do you still get XP for the kills you got from the departure damage?
I believe so but I haven't actually tested it - I'll get back to you.
I also wonder, what exactly is included by "stats" as in stats that are shared between meepos. Is it only int, agi, str? Or Attack speed as well? What about stuff like movement speed increase and magic resist?
On February 12 2013 19:11 FreeZer wrote: I also wonder, what exactly is included by "stats" as in stats that are shared between meepos. Is it only int, agi, str? Or Attack speed as well? What about stuff like movement speed increase and magic resist?
Yeah only bonus Int Str and Agi that you get from items on your main Meepo.
Movement speed will also be shared because Meepo clones have boots. Stuff like raw HP, magic resist, attack speed, crit etc won't be "shared" because your Meepo clones don't carry the items that provide those benefits.
yeah ok, talk about someone else's guide in this thread.
Anyway, on the geostrike vs net thing, i disagree about either maxing either right off. I prefer to get 2, maybe 3 levels in net before maxing geo. at some point, usually when you get blink dagger, the range on net is less of a factor on a successful combo. So I often get 3 levels in net then max out geo before getting the last level. Even, if you don't need the 3rd level and get your ganks off already, just max geo right there. Dota is not a game of black and white guys.
On another note, i never even thought about ethereal to buff your poof combo. Gonna have to try that :D
Also about the BoTs, the interaction between meepos was nerfed, so i assume they all share the same cooldown now, which makes it less of a get early item. You get more out of treads early on with the stats, which doesn't delay your mek as much. I get mek as soon as i can too, don't expect the enemy team to be dumb and not try to focus you.
On February 13 2013 00:42 TheStonerer wrote: yeah ok, talk about someone else's guide in this thread.
Anyway, on the geostrike vs net thing, i disagree about either maxing either right off. I prefer to get 2, maybe 3 levels in net before maxing geo. at some point, usually when you get blink dagger, the range on net is less of a factor on a successful combo. So I often get 3 levels in net then max out geo before getting the last level. Even, if you don't need the 3rd level and get your ganks off already, just max geo right there. Dota is not a game of black and white guys.
On another note, i never even thought about ethereal to buff your poof combo. Gonna have to try that :D
Also about the BoTs, the interaction between meepos was nerfed, so i assume they all share the same cooldown now, which makes it less of a get early item. You get more out of treads early on with the stats, which doesn't delay your mek as much. I get mek as soon as i can too, don't expect the enemy team to be dumb and not try to focus you.
Aim of this topic is to guide a player to learn meepo (doh), i think its always good if you add additional resources for further reading
On February 13 2013 00:42 TheStonerer wrote: yeah ok, talk about someone else's guide in this thread.
Anyway, on the geostrike vs net thing, i disagree about either maxing either right off. I prefer to get 2, maybe 3 levels in net before maxing geo. at some point, usually when you get blink dagger, the range on net is less of a factor on a successful combo. So I often get 3 levels in net then max out geo before getting the last level. Even, if you don't need the 3rd level and get your ganks off already, just max geo right there. Dota is not a game of black and white guys.
This is a pretty good point, maxing one over the other isn't always really optimal as well - make your decision based on the game.
On February 13 2013 00:42 TheStonerer wrote: On another note, i never even thought about ethereal to buff your poof combo. Gonna have to try that :D
Also about the BoTs, the interaction between meepos was nerfed, so i assume they all share the same cooldown now, which makes it less of a get early item. You get more out of treads early on with the stats, which doesn't delay your mek as much. I get mek as soon as i can too, don't expect the enemy team to be dumb and not try to focus you.
They don't share a CD so I'm not sure what the nerf was but they're still a really good item for Meepo at any point in the game,
On February 13 2013 00:42 TheStonerer wrote: yeah ok, talk about someone else's guide in this thread.
Anyway, on the geostrike vs net thing, i disagree about either maxing either right off. I prefer to get 2, maybe 3 levels in net before maxing geo. at some point, usually when you get blink dagger, the range on net is less of a factor on a successful combo. So I often get 3 levels in net then max out geo before getting the last level. Even, if you don't need the 3rd level and get your ganks off already, just max geo right there. Dota is not a game of black and white guys.
This is a pretty good point, maxing one over the other isn't always really optimal as well - make your decision based on the game.
On February 13 2013 00:42 TheStonerer wrote: On another note, i never even thought about ethereal to buff your poof combo. Gonna have to try that :D
Also about the BoTs, the interaction between meepos was nerfed, so i assume they all share the same cooldown now, which makes it less of a get early item. You get more out of treads early on with the stats, which doesn't delay your mek as much. I get mek as soon as i can too, don't expect the enemy team to be dumb and not try to focus you.
They don't share a CD so I'm not sure what the nerf was but they're still a really good item for Meepo at any point in the game,
Sure, at some point BoTs are more useful than treads. but early game i don't think the investment is worth it.
AC's armor aura does not stack with Vlad's. (Just felt like that was worth stating). It's annoyed me many times. (They're both based on devotion aura in dota 1 and thus don't stack, in dota 2 they don't stack for balance/parity reasons).
I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
Holy shit notail just now in fnatic vs VP. So glad I read this this morning so i knew what I was looking at. That meepo & prophet splitpush is insane!
not really meepos credit, any fast pusher with boots of travel could have won that game that way, (Phantom Lancer , Carry Leshrac....)
Meepo with bot has way more mobility than a PL or a leshrac, actually he is about as mobile as a tinker.
its more mobile than tinker since you have 5bot + poof Meepo is a lot of fun when you have a good early game, a lot less when you're up against tuskarr/centaur
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
But farm is still important, so where would you draw the line? If you get bad farm, you might not have your tranquils in time to be able to jungle efficiently for example. And without your mek, everything becomes harder. Jungling, teamfighting, Roshan etc. I often find that if I don't have my mek by level 11, I'm a very weak meepo. Isn't it better just to get a little less XP, but way more farm?
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
But farm is still important, so where would you draw the line? If you get bad farm, you might not have your tranquils in time to be able to jungle efficiently for example. And without your mek, everything becomes harder. Jungling, teamfighting, Roshan etc. I often find that if I don't have my mek by level 11, I'm a very weak meepo. Isn't it better just to get a little less XP, but way more farm?
First and foremost, you don't need Mek at all if you are playing Meepo. It's a good item, but you should not see it as a must have.
Only main item you need on Meepo is Blink (in some games/playstyle, Shadowblade can be used as a substitute). Blink + level 11 or level 16 = kills easily. After that, Agha + Heart/Skadi/Hex etc are what make you more relevant as the game goes later and later.
Farm should always go to you, as and when possible. Thing is gold comes to Meepo so easily. 2 x Poof clears creeps/stacked neutrals fast. But you do not need to force yourself to farm. You are not like Spectre/AM, where every bit of gold is so important. You are a Meepo and levels means more than anything. And because you have such a relatively cheap core (Blink) as opposed to other carries, you can afford not getting creeps in favour of being safe at tower.
So how to draw the line? When there's a safe place for you to farm, do so. If it's not safe, just be contented with exp. If you are passing by neutrals, farm them.
And Tranquil is so cheap that you should not even worry about getting it.
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
But farm is still important, so where would you draw the line? If you get bad farm, you might not have your tranquils in time to be able to jungle efficiently for example. And without your mek, everything becomes harder. Jungling, teamfighting, Roshan etc. I often find that if I don't have my mek by level 11, I'm a very weak meepo. Isn't it better just to get a little less XP, but way more farm?
If you are having bad early start try to focus as much as possible on stacking creeps in jungle. With lvl 4 poof you can clear them so fast. When you are lvl 6 you can stack 2 camps at once and if you ask your support to stack 3rd one for you, it can quickly get you up to where you want to be.
About mek, i also think its not that important. I prefer dagger into aghanims and then vlads/travel/heart/eblade.
And yes, meepo with travel is the most mobile hero in dota, his split push is insanely strong.
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
But farm is still important, so where would you draw the line? If you get bad farm, you might not have your tranquils in time to be able to jungle efficiently for example. And without your mek, everything becomes harder. Jungling, teamfighting, Roshan etc. I often find that if I don't have my mek by level 11, I'm a very weak meepo. Isn't it better just to get a little less XP, but way more farm?
First and foremost, you don't need Mek at all if you are playing Meepo. It's a good item, but you should not see it as a must have.
Only main item you need on Meepo is Blink (in some games/playstyle, Shadowblade can be used as a substitute). Blink + level 11 or level 16 = kills easily. After that, Agha + Heart/Skadi/Hex etc are what make you more relevant as the game goes later and later.
Farm should always go to you, as and when possible. Thing is gold comes to Meepo so easily. 2 x Poof clears creeps/stacked neutrals fast. But you do not need to force yourself to farm. You are not like Spectre/AM, where every bit of gold is so important. You are a Meepo and levels means more than anything. And because you have such a relatively cheap core (Blink) as opposed to other carries, you can afford not getting creeps in favour of being safe at tower.
So how to draw the line? When there's a safe place for you to farm, do so. If it's not safe, just be contented with exp. If you are passing by neutrals, farm them.
And Tranquil is so cheap that you should not even worry about getting it.
I know you don't need mek, I used to go directly agha after my tranqs. But I found that unless my team could do without me until I had it, I was a rather useless rat for too long. And mek enables me and my team to do be much more flexible. You do not need blink either to be honest. If you have other initiation (Tusk? )) then that can suffice.
Tranqs aren't expensive, but when I get a bad start I might not have them by lvl 6, in which case jungling with meepo 2 becomes harsh.
All in all, I don't think I ever want to be on two lanes (unless one is empty), due to the getting less farm, stealing exp and higher risk of getting ganked. But would you say having both meepos in jungle stacking and clearing camps is better than my "original" strategy of one in lane and one farming small camp and stacking?
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
But farm is still important, so where would you draw the line? If you get bad farm, you might not have your tranquils in time to be able to jungle efficiently for example. And without your mek, everything becomes harder. Jungling, teamfighting, Roshan etc. I often find that if I don't have my mek by level 11, I'm a very weak meepo. Isn't it better just to get a little less XP, but way more farm?
First and foremost, you don't need Mek at all if you are playing Meepo. It's a good item, but you should not see it as a must have.
Only main item you need on Meepo is Blink (in some games/playstyle, Shadowblade can be used as a substitute). Blink + level 11 or level 16 = kills easily. After that, Agha + Heart/Skadi/Hex etc are what make you more relevant as the game goes later and later.
Farm should always go to you, as and when possible. Thing is gold comes to Meepo so easily. 2 x Poof clears creeps/stacked neutrals fast. But you do not need to force yourself to farm. You are not like Spectre/AM, where every bit of gold is so important. You are a Meepo and levels means more than anything. And because you have such a relatively cheap core (Blink) as opposed to other carries, you can afford not getting creeps in favour of being safe at tower.
So how to draw the line? When there's a safe place for you to farm, do so. If it's not safe, just be contented with exp. If you are passing by neutrals, farm them.
And Tranquil is so cheap that you should not even worry about getting it.
I know you don't need mek, I used to go directly agha after my tranqs. But I found that unless my team could do without me until I had it, I was a rather useless rat for too long. And mek enables me and my team to do be much more flexible. You do not need blink either to be honest. If you have other initiation (Tusk? )) then that can suffice.
Tranqs aren't expensive, but when I get a bad start I might not have them by lvl 6, in which case jungling with meepo 2 becomes harsh.
All in all, I don't think I ever want to be on two lanes (unless one is empty), due to the getting less farm, stealing exp and higher risk of getting ganked. But would you say having both meepos in jungle stacking and clearing camps is better than my "original" strategy of one in lane and one farming small camp and stacking?
Blink will give you more presence than Mek will ever do. Blink is what makes you a threat, without it you are just a 'useless rat' tossing nets that are quite easy to dodge. Tuskar's initiation is not even close to what Blink gives. Contrary to what you think, you DO need Blink. It should be the first item you aim to get, even before Agha. And Agha first is shit, unless you are somehow playing a Macro style of Meepo.
I would prefer leeching lanes. You should be getting 1 lane to farm anyway, while the other Meepo's leeching another lane. If both lanes are not safe to farm, then jungling is alright. But if you can farm a lane, always do so.
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
But farm is still important, so where would you draw the line? If you get bad farm, you might not have your tranquils in time to be able to jungle efficiently for example. And without your mek, everything becomes harder. Jungling, teamfighting, Roshan etc. I often find that if I don't have my mek by level 11, I'm a very weak meepo. Isn't it better just to get a little less XP, but way more farm?
First and foremost, you don't need Mek at all if you are playing Meepo. It's a good item, but you should not see it as a must have.
Only main item you need on Meepo is Blink (in some games/playstyle, Shadowblade can be used as a substitute). Blink + level 11 or level 16 = kills easily. After that, Agha + Heart/Skadi/Hex etc are what make you more relevant as the game goes later and later.
Farm should always go to you, as and when possible. Thing is gold comes to Meepo so easily. 2 x Poof clears creeps/stacked neutrals fast. But you do not need to force yourself to farm. You are not like Spectre/AM, where every bit of gold is so important. You are a Meepo and levels means more than anything. And because you have such a relatively cheap core (Blink) as opposed to other carries, you can afford not getting creeps in favour of being safe at tower.
So how to draw the line? When there's a safe place for you to farm, do so. If it's not safe, just be contented with exp. If you are passing by neutrals, farm them.
And Tranquil is so cheap that you should not even worry about getting it.
I know you don't need mek, I used to go directly agha after my tranqs. But I found that unless my team could do without me until I had it, I was a rather useless rat for too long. And mek enables me and my team to do be much more flexible. You do not need blink either to be honest. If you have other initiation (Tusk? )) then that can suffice.
Tranqs aren't expensive, but when I get a bad start I might not have them by lvl 6, in which case jungling with meepo 2 becomes harsh.
All in all, I don't think I ever want to be on two lanes (unless one is empty), due to the getting less farm, stealing exp and higher risk of getting ganked. But would you say having both meepos in jungle stacking and clearing camps is better than my "original" strategy of one in lane and one farming small camp and stacking?
Blink will give you more presence than Mek will ever do. Blink is what makes you a threat, without it you are just a 'useless rat' tossing nets that are quite easy to dodge. Tuskar's initiation is not even close to what Blink gives. Contrary to what you think, you DO need Blink. It should be the first item you aim to get, even before Agha. And Agha first is shit, unless you are somehow playing a Macro style of Meepo.
I would prefer leeching lanes. You should be getting 1 lane to farm anyway, while the other Meepo's leeching another lane. If both lanes are not safe to farm, then jungling is alright. But if you can farm a lane, always do so.
Agha first definitely isn't shit, especially if you want to go to the late game. And N0tail is doing Agha first quite often.
On March 04 2013 19:03 FreeZer wrote: I'm curious as to what is the best strategy lvls 6-11. Basically, levels 6-11 are the levels where teamfights are starting, and also the levels I feel the least able to participate (I'd like lvl 11 and my mek first) and I want to blast through them as fast as possible.
Almost always I put my 2ndary meepo in the woods, clearing the small camp as well as stacking a large camp as much as possible while continuing to concentrate on LH in my lane. But in this guide I read that you could go both meepos in woods or even leech from a 2nd lane.
Leeching is what it says, you are actually taking exp from an ally. Is it always worth it to get a higher level on meepo? Besides, dividing concentration between two lanes as opposed to one lane and woods is a lot harder.
6-11 is the time where you leech 2 lanes/jungle. You shouldn't really be doing anything else. You could counter gank one of the lanes your Meepo is in, or you could help net etc. But you shouldn't really be participating in big teamfights yet.
It's ok to leech the exp. That's the whole purpose of Meepo anyway. You get your quick levels, then repay your teammates by raping the enemies.
Remember that exp is more important than farming on Meepo. For that reason, it's perfectly fine to solo middle a Meepo, knowing that the other solo would have a relatively easy time. Add that Meepo isn't that easily killed (very good starting EHP). So having 2 meepos leeching a lane each, while occasionally sneaking a few hits here and there is perfectly fine.
But farm is still important, so where would you draw the line? If you get bad farm, you might not have your tranquils in time to be able to jungle efficiently for example. And without your mek, everything becomes harder. Jungling, teamfighting, Roshan etc. I often find that if I don't have my mek by level 11, I'm a very weak meepo. Isn't it better just to get a little less XP, but way more farm?
First and foremost, you don't need Mek at all if you are playing Meepo. It's a good item, but you should not see it as a must have.
Only main item you need on Meepo is Blink (in some games/playstyle, Shadowblade can be used as a substitute). Blink + level 11 or level 16 = kills easily. After that, Agha + Heart/Skadi/Hex etc are what make you more relevant as the game goes later and later.
Farm should always go to you, as and when possible. Thing is gold comes to Meepo so easily. 2 x Poof clears creeps/stacked neutrals fast. But you do not need to force yourself to farm. You are not like Spectre/AM, where every bit of gold is so important. You are a Meepo and levels means more than anything. And because you have such a relatively cheap core (Blink) as opposed to other carries, you can afford not getting creeps in favour of being safe at tower.
So how to draw the line? When there's a safe place for you to farm, do so. If it's not safe, just be contented with exp. If you are passing by neutrals, farm them.
And Tranquil is so cheap that you should not even worry about getting it.
I know you don't need mek, I used to go directly agha after my tranqs. But I found that unless my team could do without me until I had it, I was a rather useless rat for too long. And mek enables me and my team to do be much more flexible. You do not need blink either to be honest. If you have other initiation (Tusk? )) then that can suffice.
Tranqs aren't expensive, but when I get a bad start I might not have them by lvl 6, in which case jungling with meepo 2 becomes harsh.
All in all, I don't think I ever want to be on two lanes (unless one is empty), due to the getting less farm, stealing exp and higher risk of getting ganked. But would you say having both meepos in jungle stacking and clearing camps is better than my "original" strategy of one in lane and one farming small camp and stacking?
Blink will give you more presence than Mek will ever do. Blink is what makes you a threat, without it you are just a 'useless rat' tossing nets that are quite easy to dodge. Tuskar's initiation is not even close to what Blink gives. Contrary to what you think, you DO need Blink. It should be the first item you aim to get, even before Agha. And Agha first is shit, unless you are somehow playing a Macro style of Meepo.
I would prefer leeching lanes. You should be getting 1 lane to farm anyway, while the other Meepo's leeching another lane. If both lanes are not safe to farm, then jungling is alright. But if you can farm a lane, always do so.
You definitely don't need mek - I find it works really well and like freezer said it lets me actually do something in the early game. And while I agree that blink is pretty amazing for Meepo I don't agree that getting it before agh's is necessarily always the right choice, especially after watching Notail a lot who just rushes aghs then gets blink afterwards. Aghs first lets you increase your farming power quicker than a blink or a mek will, and the 2k for blink after agh's is pretty inconsequential at that point - easy to get in 3-4 minutes.
The one thing I really want to emphasize in duck's post is ' if you can farm a lane always do so. It's better farm for you to keep one Meepo in lane and send the other to stack than it is to jungle fully with two Meepos - however, that being said, it's usually totally possible to clear wave in lane with one set of poofs -> go clear three jungle camps -> return one of your Meepos before new wave comes in -> stack with other Meepo -> double poof to clear lane creeps -> repeat. Mostly, you want to be getting all the lane farm you possibly can, but Meepo can totally get a lot of jungle farm too without wasting any of his lane CS, it just takes a little more attention.
If you're playing Meepo as 1 or 2nd position I don't think you should be getting mek. Ideally your 3 should be able to pick it up while you get a decent blink dagger timing so at 11 you can start solo killing supports/out of position heroes.
I think the upcoming changes deserves a bump of this thread.
- Base armor reduced by 1
A shame, but I Meepos early game definately gets a buff overall.
- Turn rate improved from 0.5 to 0.65
Might make it easier to maneuver your rat pack around.
- Earthbind cast point improved from 0.5 to 0.3
Will make it easier to hit, which will have an impact early. Late game you have 5 nets with 8 second CD so you can afford to miss some anyway.
- Divided We Stand leveling rebalanced from 6/11/16 to 4/11/18
Interesting!! I'm not sure where this will lead tbh. First of all I'd like to dismiss the 16-18 nerf, at that time you get 5 levels a minute anyway . But having your first clone at level 4.. Granted you could send it to the jungle to farm - but 1-1-1-1 or maybe 0-2-1-1 is slightly weak in the jungle. I suppose you could clear the easy camp while stacking the larger camps. An alternative is keeping both your clones in lane. You will probably become a quite fearsome laner at this point, but you will not be able to gain additional gold or experience (unless you lane with someone else then you will steal some of his XP). I think I'd prefer using the earlier clone to get as much XP as possible and poof him in for a kill.
I'd like to see this as a boost to Meepos early game as well as a flat reduction of all his timings which is very much needed.
- Removed 30% stat sharing on non-aghanim Divided We Stand
While this is a nerf, and my first thought was that this would make Meepo unplayable as it nerfed his weak pre-agha state even harder, I actually don't think it matters that much. Aghanim's was a must before, and it will still be. All items that you would consider to get before Aghas - threads, mek, vlad, blink, tranq - are not affected by this change at all since they don't give stats or are boots. The only thing that it hurts is your build-up to Aghas which is a very minor nerf.
I however don't think it will make Meepo more viable in the proscene, we'll probably still only see n0tail play him once a while.
Except facing some pretty hard counters I already feel Meepo is friggin imba at the level I play so this just makes it better xD Inversely, if more Meepos get picked up, people will also learn how to deal with him better.
I don´t worry too much yet about not being able to jungle at lvl 4, since you can just stack with your second meepo and then flash farm with 3 levels poof when you hit lvl 5 (rather than 6)
Meepo will be incredibly OP next patch but not as a jungle flash farmer but as a ganker early game who snowballs incredibly hard because of farm midgame.
Meepos big problems are a lack of escape and survivability as well as a weak early game. Well now this patch fixes almost all these issues.
The theory behind it is like this. Chen, enchantress and lone druid (to a lesser extent) are the best early level heroes because their abilities give them the early game equivalent to an extra hero which means that ganks are +2 instead of just +1. This usually mean that you crush the enemy. The earlier you can do this the better since your creeps or heroes do not scale as well as the enemy. Lvl 6 is pretty far off but lvl 4 is NOT hard to hit. The difference between being ganked by 1 hero or 2 heroes is immense and no one does it better than meepo because he can gank you AND farm the lane at the same time. It's clearly OP. But it's not the only change that's really good for him this patch.
Good things for meepo in general changes.
* XP AoE increased from 1200 to 1300. Helps you survive very early on since XP is easier to get safely.
* Your gold income is now 1 per 0.6 seconds, up from 1 per 0.8 seconds. Meepo farms far worse early on so it helps him get the crucial early items up faster with less risk.
Hero changes: - Base armor reduced by 1 This sucks of course but as we are about to see it's no big deal.
- Turn rate improved from 0.5 to 0.65 Helps out ganking slightly.
- Earthbind cast point improved from 0.5 to 0.3 Helps out ganking significantly
- Divided We Stand leveling rebalanced from 6/11/16 to 4/11/18 As previously said the earlier you can get more meepos the more OP they are because they are mostly their base stats. This allows you to put immense pressure on other lanes early on. But! It also helps your early game survival. As long as your lvl 4 and one meepo is roaming all you have to do is run so the enemy is forced to stun you (you are most likely faster), last through their stun and survive for 1,5 seconds to poof away. It's not the best escape in the world but with a net it's a whole lot better than it was before.
- Removed 30% stat sharing on non-aghanim Divided We Stand It's relevant during the buildup to aghs but it doesn't really matter in the long run.
Tranquils Active Boots: + 85 Movement speed + 4 Armor + 10 HP Regeneration
Broken Boots: + 60 Movement speed + 4 Armor Restores when you haven't attacked or been attacked in the last 13 seconds.
So, unless these breaks for all meepos (they shouldnt) this is your dream item. +4 armor compensates for the slight nerf, +60 movespeed is faster than any other boot in a gank, +85 movespeed for roaming all around the map and 10 regen allows your meepo to heal up while traveling.
You can use meepo to tank a jungle camp, send him roaming while staying in lane and have him arrive with full HP and ready for a gank while laning at lvl 4. He's tanky because of the armor and if the gank initiates well your instantly have 2 meepos there, if it doesn't you can poof back and farm. If your gank you can poof to your other meepo instead.
1-1-1-1 at 4 gives you a net, a nuke/teleport and with orb of venom 17 % slow. Just run up to them with your insane movespeed of 390 and hit them with a shovel. Sure they can turn to attack you but then you just net, poof in and shovel them in the face.
I seriously think we will be seeing a lot more of this hero.
Working on an updated version of the guide right now! Going to play about fifty games of meepo as soon as this patch hits lol. Should be a couple of weeks and then I will post an edit =)
The thing is right now your other meepos are going to be really weak until you hit Ags. Tranquil boots will still be the best thing for him IMO, but the active heal was what really made them amazing. Now since you don't have that you're probably going to have to play with 2 meepos in lane for a while.
I wonder how he works in a 2v2 situation. Maybe we'll see him in a good defensive dual lane.
On October 19 2013 06:14 LeLoup wrote: The thing is right now your other meepos are going to be really weak until you hit Ags. Tranquil boots will still be the best thing for him IMO, but the active heal was what really made them amazing. Now since you don't have that you're probably going to have to play with 2 meepos in lane for a while.
I wonder how he works in a 2v2 situation. Maybe we'll see him in a good defensive dual lane.
Only got 30 % stats before, that's very very little. For strength it's 5,4 strength from ogre club and threads which is the only thing you get before your aghs complete. That's only 115 hitpoints. You really don't lose that much.
With two meeepos you can either go full on farm and stack jungle for lvl 5 where you can clear it rapidly with poofs or you can go out and find ganks. Your still laning, your meepo can get back or you can get out if you need it, it regens 10 hp per second while traveling and you gank well.
If it's dual lanes at any time your lone meepo can get in and you can make it a 2vs4 with poof. If your lane your assisting have even 1 setup stun the enemy is pretty much dead. Net, poof for 240 magic nuke even at lvl 1 and oov + double shovel aids is 22 % slow. Your support can even buy your roaming meepo smoke and it's even harsher now. Mid is even more unfair since it becomes a 3v1.
After the ulti change, tranquil change is the biggest thing imo. A much more solid early game. I usually go aghs before blink because I find it a more safe option too, so the loss of the 30% isn't that big to me.
On October 19 2013 06:14 LeLoup wrote: The thing is right now your other meepos are going to be really weak until you hit Ags. Tranquil boots will still be the best thing for him IMO, but the active heal was what really made them amazing. Now since you don't have that you're probably going to have to play with 2 meepos in lane for a while.
I wonder how he works in a 2v2 situation. Maybe we'll see him in a good defensive dual lane.
We'll see how the removal of the tranquil active changes things but if I'm not wrong the active gives 12.5 health per second, so when it's active, it's 15.5 as compared to the 10 health per second of the new ones.
I don't get it, what does removing the 30% stat sharing mean? The clones get 0% stats, so 0 str? 0 hp? I thought removing the 30% stat sharing meant they just got 100% stats as a buff; that's wrong?
On October 20 2013 07:16 Nightmarjoo wrote: I don't get it, what does removing the 30% stat sharing mean? The clones get 0% stats, so 0 str? 0 hp? I thought removing the 30% stat sharing meant they just got 100% stats as a buff; that's wrong?
If Meepo prime has 40 agility and a blade of alacrity, then Meepo prime has 50 agility, and all his clones have 40 agility.
Before, those clones would have 40 + 30% of 10 = 43 agility
However, with an Agh, the clones would get, in both cases, 50 agility.
could meepo perhaps be used to have a trilane+duo mid or something? seems good if you ask me. Especially with a stun. Stun>net>poof>net>poof. win on 2 lanes. Or am i crazy?
Hi, first of all it's a great guide Cyx! Easily understood and informative! I'm going to have to ask a noob question though, I still don't understand why Meepo matches up well against single target dps like Lina. Is it because before she gets her levels up you'd be farming, not fighting and off the map and after she's got her level and dps up you'd be 7+ levels above her and whatever damage she can do to one of your meepos (usually the prime which is not in jungle) you can net, blink back and poof your meepos in to eat her?
Coming from SC and only been playing Dota for less than two months... As an SC player I feel like I want to utilize my micro/apm advantage though. thanks.
Normally you can kill lina very easily and microing one meepo back when he gets lagunaed is also not that hard. That is if you are not playing from behind. Lina can be very scary if you fall behind and she is having good game. But normally if you have decent game you get that aghs and at some point heart you wont have any problems with single target spells. You also have 35% magic resist and that helps a lot
For playing meepo in early stages of dota, i wouldn't really recommend it. The thing about meepo is you have to work a lot on mechanics. And combining that with how hard dota is. Idk.. i would rather focus on improving at dota by playing all heroes (just random every game).
To write a little bit more on the last part. Playing efficient meepo requires a lot of multitasking. Now when you are new to dota you make a lot of mistakes. You are in bad position you get picked off and die. You need to be precise with your hero and when you have to spread awareness on 4, 5 units dota gets a lot harder.
You can still multitask a lot by playing other heroes. Checking all the time on other lanes how others are doing, what items they have, spotting runes, movement of heroes and just being aware of whats going on.
I remember watching some players on TI3 first person and it really felt like you are watching sc2 :D Camera movement all over the place.
On October 20 2013 19:18 thOr6136 wrote: Normally you can kill lina very easily and microing one meepo back when he gets lagunaed is also not that hard. That is if you are not playing from behind. Lina can be very scary if you fall behind and she is having good game. But normally if you have decent game you get that aghs and at some point heart you wont have any problems with single target spells. You also have 35% magic resist and that helps a lot
For playing meepo in early stages of dota, i wouldn't really recommend it. The thing about meepo is you have to work a lot on mechanics. And combining that with how hard dota is. Idk.. i would rather focus on improving at dota by playing all heroes (just random every game).
To write a little bit more on the last part. Playing efficient meepo requires a lot of multitasking. Now when you are new to dota you make a lot of mistakes. You are in bad position you get picked off and die. You need to be precise with your hero and when you have to spread awareness on 4, 5 units dota gets a lot harder.
This is pretty accurate - single-target gankers usually get their abilities they need to start hurting you around level 7 or 8, by which point you should be level 11 and well on your way to aghs. Once you have aghs, you've got more than enough room to pull that Meepo back and net him with other Meepos, so the scary point is pretty short for you with regards to those heroes.
Also, to add a bit more even to the last part, while coming from a Starcraft background will mean you don't have to fear playing Meepo when you're ready to, the micro is NOT the hard part of Meepo. Anyone who's done a full production round out of three base production in Starcraft, even really piss-poorly (I was plat when I played SC2 lol), has hit more buttons faster more precisely than a Meepo player does. The hard thing is being aware of five heroes to the level you need, and that's not something that transfers nearly as well. Your 'micro advantage' is pretty much null in Dota - all it means is you won't have that barrier to entry when you start playing the heroes that require it.
e: working on an updated version of the guide (of course) to deal with the fact that he's a whole different hero now lol, will update this post to include up-to-date replays, as well as links to other information =)
On October 20 2013 06:43 Darkren wrote: I alwais tought and stand that threads are far better on meepo, after this patch threads are even better
They give u imba attack speed on every hero, and a nice boost on the primary one
Personally, I like getting tranquils to tide me through the early game as most of your damage will be from poof. I usually change to treads after my aghs or after my blink dagger depending on when I need the 16 extra strength and then add on a BoT for the end game. Meepo is a very clunky hero, when moving around he bumps into himself a lot and loses a lot of effective ms from doing so. More ms should be helpful, as should the turn rate buff.
On October 20 2013 06:43 Darkren wrote: I alwais tought and stand that threads are far better on meepo, after this patch threads are even better
They give u imba attack speed on every hero, and a nice boost on the primary one
Personally, I like getting tranquils to tide me through the early game as most of your damage will be from poof. I usually change to treads after my aghs or after my blink dagger depending on when I need the 16 extra strength and then add on a BoT for the end game. Meepo is a very clunky hero, when moving around he bumps into himself a lot and loses a lot of effective ms from doing so. More ms should be helpful, as should the turn rate buff.
Wait what? All boots give you the exact same stats on all of your clones, since the clones actually get the item in their inventory.
Where do you get the number 16 from?
Myself I'm very unsure of what boots to get. While tranquils have become more viable late, I'm not sure they can contend with treads for fightning. We have:
Treads: 30 AS, 8 str/agi, 50 MS Tranqs: 4 armor, 65 MS
Treads will superior damage wise with the AS and the possibility to go agi. 4 armor is probably better than 8 str in terms of survivability. I'm not sure how the MS would affect your damage output, but I suspect treads would still come out ahead since you slow your enemies as you hit them anyway.
I really don't like tranquils' active mode either. Since they break on being attacked or attacking I guess they break while jungling as well. While 10 hp reg isn't bad, you'd have to stay put for 13 seconds before actually getting it. In that time you'd be close to your fountain anyway.
On October 20 2013 06:43 Darkren wrote: I alwais tought and stand that threads are far better on meepo, after this patch threads are even better
They give u imba attack speed on every hero, and a nice boost on the primary one
Personally, I like getting tranquils to tide me through the early game as most of your damage will be from poof. I usually change to treads after my aghs or after my blink dagger depending on when I need the 16 extra strength and then add on a BoT for the end game. Meepo is a very clunky hero, when moving around he bumps into himself a lot and loses a lot of effective ms from doing so. More ms should be helpful, as should the turn rate buff.
Wait what? All boots give you the exact same stats on all of your clones, since the clones actually get the item in their inventory.
Where do you get the number 16 from?
Myself I'm very unsure of what boots to get. While tranquils have become more viable late, I'm not sure they can contend with treads for fightning. We have:
Treads: 30 AS, 8 str/agi, 50 MS Tranqs: 4 armor, 65 MS
Treads will superior damage wise with the AS and the possibility to go agi. 4 armor is probably better than 8 str in terms of survivability. I'm not sure how the MS would affect your damage output, but I suspect treads would still come out ahead since you slow your enemies as you hit them anyway.
I really don't like tranquils' active mode either. Since they break on being attacked or attacking I guess they break while jungling as well. While 10 hp reg isn't bad, you'd have to stay put for 13 seconds before actually getting it. In that time you'd be close to your fountain anyway.
Very useful thing to know : on a Meepo with Aghanim, the clones get +16 stat from power treads.
Why you wonder? Well, they get the boots (they always do, may it be Agh or not) but then, with 100% stat sharing, the sweet +8 provided by the power treads to the main Meepo is 100% shared with the clones, who then get +16 stats.
Note that currently, without Agh, the clones still receive +10.4 stats from treads (8 + 30% of 8)
On October 21 2013 14:29 FreeZer wrote: I really don't like tranquils' active mode either. Since they break on being attacked or attacking I guess they break while jungling as well. While 10 hp reg isn't bad, you'd have to stay put for 13 seconds before actually getting it. In that time you'd be close to your fountain anyway.
Not true, they don't break on a lot of jungle creeps unless it's been patched pretty recently - some of them they do but you can safely farm a lot of camps with tranquil buff on. Either way, you have two Meepos by the time you want to start jungling - tank with the other one for a while ^^ not that tricky.
On October 21 2013 14:29 FreeZer wrote: I really don't like tranquils' active mode either. Since they break on being attacked or attacking I guess they break while jungling as well. While 10 hp reg isn't bad, you'd have to stay put for 13 seconds before actually getting it. In that time you'd be close to your fountain anyway.
Not true, they don't break on a lot of jungle creeps unless it's been patched pretty recently - some of them they do but you can safely farm a lot of camps with tranquil buff on. Either way, you have two Meepos by the time you want to start jungling - tank with the other one for a while ^^ not that tricky.
On October 21 2013 18:29 GtC wrote: People talking about tranqs are starting to get really confusing.
Haha sorry, that might have been my fault. Let me summarise. I like tranquil boots on Meepo because it is a strong and cheap early game item which helps him get through his weak early game phase.
I find the health regen very useful for laning as, being Meepo, generally people will be trying to shut down your farm.Similarly for jungling when you are forced to take damage, the regen is useful as well.
I personally prefer the MS over the AS as in the early game when your stats are still relatively weak, AS may not have as much mileage as later on. On the other hand, MS is helpful for chasing/ running away. Even more so in the early game when the majority of your damage will be from poofing, having the MS to get into a location to get off a poof could be critical and could mean the difference between a kill and a death.
I also find that Meepo has the tendency to get kited in the early game team fights when you do not have enough Meepos to cast many earthbinds or stack enough slows on multiple heroes. Meepo suffers in such situations where he has to switch targets after killing or in a situation where the enemy is trying to disengage and retreat. In which case more MS will be useful.
However, like I said, tranquil boots are an early game item and later on in the game when the proportion of your damage shifts away from being poof-heavy to shovel-heavy, treads will prove to be more valuable. It is also here that you may have a blink dagger to help solve your mobility issues. Therefore, I do recommend changing your boots to treads later on although with the new boots losing the ability to be disassembled, I am not sure how economical this may be.
I hope this helped to clear some of the confusion.
On October 21 2013 22:51 Laserist wrote: Why prefer treads over BoT?
Because BoT = 2000 gold for no combat ability beyond some move speed. Treads are also the only boots which give a huge boost of survivability to your clones since it's the only item they can carry.
On October 21 2013 22:51 Laserist wrote: Why prefer treads over BoT?
Because BoT = 2000 gold for no combat ability beyond some move speed. Treads are also the only boots which give a huge boost of survivability to your clones since it's the only item they can carry.
I prefer BoT over any boots mid to late game since it gives you so much mobility, gank & farm power aside move speed. Meepo can easily afford 1K more gold for what BoT gives. Try it , you'll find it useful.
On October 21 2013 22:51 Laserist wrote: Why prefer treads over BoT?
Because BoT = 2000 gold for no combat ability beyond some move speed. Treads are also the only boots which give a huge boost of survivability to your clones since it's the only item they can carry.
I prefer BoT over any boots mid to late game since it gives you so much mobility, gank & farm power aside move speed. Meepo can easily afford 1K more gold for what BoT gives. Try it , you'll find it useful.
I'm well aware of what BoTs offer. I'm not saying Treads are better than BoTs, I'm simply saying why some people prefer them over BoTs.
OK, to be more honest, it was just significantly harder. Now, my Meepo in the jungle was forced to do trips to the fountain (twice in the game) whereas it was simply never ever required before.
A Meepo at lvl 4 really can't do shit. Apart from stacking a camp, once per minute. I mean, even clearing the easy camp (with a poof lvl 2) takes a significant hit on the total HP.
The only nice thing is that now I am forced to tread switch, which is surprisingly easy with Meepo : you can tread switch after you click on poof, but before the channeling end, to save up mana.
I personally don't know how to build him properly now. Magic stick or no magic stick? Treads -> Mek -> Agh, or do you skip Mek entirely (very hard to keep your HP up in this case)? Do you consider small aura items such as basilus (probably a bad idea) or headdress (perhaps a good idea)?
Edit : Oh, and the idea that Meepo can gank lvl 4 is absurd. Meepo at lvl 4 is super weak. I even wonder if he is among the top 10% worst hero at that level.
On October 22 2013 11:26 fezvez wrote: Just tested Meepo on 6.79.
It's horrible.
OK, to be more honest, it was just significantly harder. Now, my Meepo in the jungle was forced to do trips to the fountain (twice in the game) whereas it was simply never ever required before.
A Meepo at lvl 4 really can't do shit. Apart from stacking a camp, once per minute. I mean, even clearing the easy camp (with a poof lvl 2) takes a significant hit on the total HP.
The only nice thing is that now I am forced to tread switch, which is surprisingly easy with Meepo : you can tread switch after you click on poof, but before the channeling end, to save up mana.
I personally don't know how to build him properly now. Magic stick or no magic stick? Treads -> Mek -> Agh, or do you skip Mek entirely (very hard to keep your HP up in this case)? Do you consider small aura items such as basilus (probably a bad idea) or headdress (perhaps a good idea)?
Edit : Oh, and the idea that Meepo can gank lvl 4 is absurd. Meepo at lvl 4 is super weak. I even wonder if he is among the top 10% worst hero at that level.
Having just played my first games of Meepo on the new patch, here's my thoughts on this.
Having an extra Meepo at level 4 doesn't let you jungle very well, it's true, but the ability to send your Meepo back to fountain without losing XP is amazing, and by the time you're back at full HP and mana on both Meepos you can be level 5 which is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be - a 240 damage nuke and 4 seconds of root is nothing to laugh at on anyone even if their base stats aren't great (or a 200 damage nuke at level 4). New tranquils didn't seem as awesome as before then I played a game without them and it was actually WAY more painful - they're less noticeable but still pretty good.
As far as build, I'm leaning towards aghs->blink->heart as my items of choice usually so far, but it hasn't changed much - mek->blink->aghs is still really strong as well, and you can use all the same items post-aghs as before. Other than that, he honestly hasn't changed THAT much as a hero - most of what I've written here still applies with a few changes to the early game builds and mindset sections. His midgame is still almost exactly the same - you can hardly tell he's a different hero.
e: as far as early-game items goes, I still think basi is a great idea, it hasn't changed and still gives him the same things. Also still think upgrading your stick (if you even get one) is a waste of money. If anything I'm leaning towards more raw boots aghs rush Meepo builds now that tranquils have been nerfed a bit but boots-wise he's still pretty similar with maybe a little more emphasis on treads if you're not planning on just laning/jungling for levels 1-7. I would still buy headdress if you're going mek (obviously) but never otherwise I don't think - again, wasted money that could be a faster aghs.
my experience with meepo also thinks tranquil not good net is actually now a lot better than geostrike with less cast point level 2 poof is enough to flash
net poof poof +meepo net poor man's shield and ring of basilius later on get agility tread
meepo now becomes a huge presence in lane, especially against any other agility hero meepo against sf is amazingly strong after meepo hits level 5 with level 2 net/poof
meepo would get destroyed by sf. wouldnt even be a contest. despite having a clone at lvl 4 meepo still cant kill anyone mid unless its like...rubick. probs a couple more but rubick is the only hero i can think of atm who might lane against a meepo and only has 1 nuke.
I really think that Meepo will be played like he used to be played long time ago, and that is going solo lane(preferably mid) and gank as soon as he gets his clone.
I do think that people are playing him wrong in this version, stacking neutrals and farming, when this patch nerfed everything about carries, farming, split-pushing, gaining gold and XP from neutrals, while it supports ganking a lot. I mean, it isn't wrong to play him as a farming carry, but he definitely isn't as strong in that field as he used to be last version.
Only played one game so far but love it. Get basi brown boots, stack the hard camp and farm the small camp with 2nd Meepo at lvl 4, farm the stacks or go ganking around lvl 5/6 with lvl 3 Poof. Then farm lane/jungle for level 11 and BoT and from there it's smooth sailing xD I've become a bit of a fan of BoT first with 3 Meepoes. You can be anywhere at anytime with full health. It's a bit greedy but I love it x)
Well, I am watching N0tail right now, he is playing Meepo. As I said, he is playing him differently, he max third skill first, then Earthbind and Poof, and is rushing Treads and Blink and among first items he gets Orb of Venom, and ganks all over the map. At least he played him that way in the game I was watching.
I must say, his casting animation for Earthbind is enormously buffed.
On October 23 2013 00:20 Ramiz1989 wrote: Well, I am watching N0tail right now, he is playing Meepo. As I said, he is playing him differently, he max third skill first, then Earthbind and Poof, and is rushing Treads and Blink and among first items he gets Orb of Venom, and ganks all over the map. At least he played him that way in the game I was watching.
I must say, his casting animation for Earthbind is enormously buffed.
I've seen him doing the Geostrike/OoV build a bunch before, I doubt that's much to do with the patch.
A couple more games also tells me tranquils are no good - they're really support boots now which I'm okay with but I'm liking treads first a lot more now, or keeping brown boots and rushing either aghs/blink or mek/blink and then turning them into bts after your core ganking items are done. I also like taking two points in Earthbind before leveling Geostrike a lot more than I did when I wrote the guide ^^ though that is not really so much the patch, even though the patch did make it better, I've just started to like the build more.
Gotta go to class now but will play and write more when I'm home ^^
I tried meepo as well earlier. At first I was really happy with the new tranquils because they are really nice early on, however in the end they really don't do much for you as they are completely worthless in battle.
Tried to go poor man's shield and ring of basilius straight into treads but this wasn't really the easiest either..
Would like to open with tranquil boots normally but the main problem is that they cannot be disassembled into treads, for this reason I feel it a waste to open tranquil boots as you will need treads later on anyway.
On October 24 2013 00:10 SandMan wrote: Tried to go poor man's shield and ring of basilius straight into treads but this wasn't really the easiest either..
stout shield first + ring of regen and then poor man's shield, go straight to treads (skip ring of basilius)
if farming is good, go for aghs, aim to carry if farming is not that good, get ring of basilius and play more of a ganker support role
i find meepo tread, poor shield, ring of basilius into vlads are cheap and easy and if needed, meepo can create a lot of space needed for alternative carry on the team
On October 22 2013 11:26 fezvez wrote: Just tested Meepo on 6.79.
It's horrible.
OK, to be more honest, it was just significantly harder. Now, my Meepo in the jungle was forced to do trips to the fountain (twice in the game) whereas it was simply never ever required before.
A Meepo at lvl 4 really can't do shit. Apart from stacking a camp, once per minute. I mean, even clearing the easy camp (with a poof lvl 2) takes a significant hit on the total HP.
The only nice thing is that now I am forced to tread switch, which is surprisingly easy with Meepo : you can tread switch after you click on poof, but before the channeling end, to save up mana.
I personally don't know how to build him properly now. Magic stick or no magic stick? Treads -> Mek -> Agh, or do you skip Mek entirely (very hard to keep your HP up in this case)? Do you consider small aura items such as basilus (probably a bad idea) or headdress (perhaps a good idea)?
Edit : Oh, and the idea that Meepo can gank lvl 4 is absurd. Meepo at lvl 4 is super weak. I even wonder if he is among the top 10% worst hero at that level.
I disagree with your statement that Meepo is weak at lvl 4. I will agree with you that he cant really gank at lvl 4 though but having a 400 damage AOE nuke at lvl 4 is quiet powerful (300 when you consider the standard magic resistance) give him alot more lane control. This is probably the strongest spell in the game at is possible at this point.
Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
played my first non-AI game of meepo due to a cm captain being a dick so hard to keep track of which meepo is which....
is there a way to make a bot game where you have a support? every time i go to lane with meepo they give me a carry to lane with and the bots keep contesting last hits its so dumb
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
i was actually surprised, the damage radius on poof is quite a bit bigger than i thought. makes hitting the ranged creeps in a wave much easier :D
TRANQUILS ARE STILL GOOD. I LOVE THE NEW TRANQUILS. LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOUUU
But seriously, I played a few meepo games and I'm liking the new tranquils. I feel like they give me more roaming and ganking potential. But I'm a guy who likes tranquils so much that my favourite starting item combo is a ring of protection, a ring of regeneration and an ironwood branch and then rush a boots after. Even when I'm going to the mid lane.
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
the radius is like 350 or something. against a ranged hero you actually have to go on the other of his creeps to land your poof which is a big nono
I've been going boots of travels as first item with great success. If you use them to tp home and poof back they give you just mas much regen than the old tranquils used to and you can also use them to gank or farm empty lanes and of course they scale really well into the late game.
I've played him mid, mostly leaching exp, and then gone ganking once I hit level 4, always netting a few kills. The level 4 gank is really deadly if you go at an already even lane. For this reason, I prefer picking him together with an aggressive trilane.
On October 25 2013 13:58 synapse wrote: played my first non-AI game of meepo due to a cm captain being a dick so hard to keep track of which meepo is which....
is there a way to make a bot game where you have a support? every time i go to lane with meepo they give me a carry to lane with and the bots keep contesting last hits its so dumb
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
i was actually surprised, the damage radius on poof is quite a bit bigger than i thought. makes hitting the ranged creeps in a wave much easier :D
As far as keeping track of your Meepo's, I use the following control groups which make it incredibly easy. I think I started using this due to it being recommended by a pro. Notail maybe?
After a while you just get used to remember which group of Meepo's you sent where. I've tried couple of different schemes in the past and I find this to be by far the best one. The reason for the 4th Keybind is for blink poofing. Hit 4 > Spam Tab+W+Click on 1st Meepo > Hit 1 > Blink onto enemies > Profit.
As far as practising in bot games, you are right in that the game pairs you with carry's for whatever reason. And as CSing is hard enough as it is on this hero, you really don't need to be having to compete with a friendly AI as well. So my solution to this was just to take him mid. I know its not ideal practise for the laning phase, but you'll still be able to work on your mid/late game Meepo play.
From memory, I used to build Tango, Salve and Stout, first items are 2x Slippers of Agi to complete PMS. Use your poof to CS and harass, even Insane AI are too dumb evade it. Once you have 2x Meepo at level 4, you can just use Net + double poof to push them out of lane, and then get to work on farming like a mad man.
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
the radius is like 350 or something. against a ranged hero you actually have to go on the other of his creeps to land your poof which is a big nono
I would say that AOE is decent but ya against range hero it can be troublesome. If you can land a net early, it can be quiet deadly. I find myself going for a 2-2-0-1 build now. Instead of going for that extra poof by going 1-3-0-1, it more favorable to get that extra net range imo for better opportunity to kill or atleast put some pressure. Since the extra poof damage doesnt scale that dramatically and mainly the cooldown is dropped but at this stage it doesnt mean much. You cant really kill anything generally anyways at this stage but will make your enemy 2nd guess when entering in to harass you.
On October 25 2013 13:58 synapse wrote: played my first non-AI game of meepo due to a cm captain being a dick so hard to keep track of which meepo is which....
is there a way to make a bot game where you have a support? every time i go to lane with meepo they give me a carry to lane with and the bots keep contesting last hits its so dumb
On October 25 2013 12:44 Cyx. wrote:
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
i was actually surprised, the damage radius on poof is quite a bit bigger than i thought. makes hitting the ranged creeps in a wave much easier :D
As far as keeping track of your Meepo's, I use the following control groups which make it incredibly easy. I think I started using this due to it being recommended by a pro. Notail maybe?
I like having all my Meepos separate but otherwise pretty similar to this - I have Meepos 1-5 on their respective number keys and all Meepos on space bar =) personal preference ofc, as long as you have quick access to all your Meepos you'll be fine, I just like being able to pull back hurt ones by checking health bars and pulling that number back rather than clicking sometimes in the clusterfuck that Meepo playing can be
On October 25 2013 13:58 synapse wrote: played my first non-AI game of meepo due to a cm captain being a dick so hard to keep track of which meepo is which....
is there a way to make a bot game where you have a support? every time i go to lane with meepo they give me a carry to lane with and the bots keep contesting last hits its so dumb
On October 25 2013 12:44 Cyx. wrote:
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
i was actually surprised, the damage radius on poof is quite a bit bigger than i thought. makes hitting the ranged creeps in a wave much easier :D
As far as keeping track of your Meepo's, I use the following control groups which make it incredibly easy. I think I started using this due to it being recommended by a pro. Notail maybe?
I like having all my Meepos separate but otherwise pretty similar to this - I have Meepos 1-5 on their respective number keys and all Meepos on space bar =) personal preference ofc, as long as you have quick access to all your Meepos you'll be fine, I just like being able to pull back hurt ones by checking health bars and pulling that number back rather than clicking sometimes in the clusterfuck that Meepo playing can be
How do you know which hotkey the hurt Meepo is on?
On October 25 2013 13:58 synapse wrote: played my first non-AI game of meepo due to a cm captain being a dick so hard to keep track of which meepo is which....
is there a way to make a bot game where you have a support? every time i go to lane with meepo they give me a carry to lane with and the bots keep contesting last hits its so dumb
On October 25 2013 12:44 Cyx. wrote:
On October 25 2013 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: Numbers dont mean much. The aoe on poof is almost melee range. If youre against a ranged hero you will be putting yourself in danger everytime you try to poof, unless you are content on just wasting it on creeps
The radius on poof is actually not bad at all, if you're right on top of someone you can usually hit them even if they run away immediately - but either way, just lane him with a strong dual partner like cm or venge and enjoy making glorious rape all day ^^ seriously, it's not as awful as you make it out to be.
i was actually surprised, the damage radius on poof is quite a bit bigger than i thought. makes hitting the ranged creeps in a wave much easier :D
As far as keeping track of your Meepo's, I use the following control groups which make it incredibly easy. I think I started using this due to it being recommended by a pro. Notail maybe?
I like having all my Meepos separate but otherwise pretty similar to this - I have Meepos 1-5 on their respective number keys and all Meepos on space bar =) personal preference ofc, as long as you have quick access to all your Meepos you'll be fine, I just like being able to pull back hurt ones by checking health bars and pulling that number back rather than clicking sometimes in the clusterfuck that Meepo playing can be
I like having them paired simply because during the midgame, your Meepo's will generally be farming in groups of 2 or 4 anyway, so I find it easier to be able to direct them around as groups, but as you said, its really just whatever you're most comfortable with.
The advantage of your scheme is that you'd be able to select a specific Meepo a touch faster. Having a single hotkey is always going to be quicker than clicking the on-screen unit or the unit frame.
On October 29 2013 08:01 Dead9 wrote: probably uses the hero portraits in the topleft
yup, 1-2-3-4-5 =) the one with the not very big green bar comes back, one of the other ones nets. I find it's a lot easier for me than actually clicking a Meepo by his health bar.
On October 29 2013 08:01 Dead9 wrote: probably uses the hero portraits in the topleft
yup, 1-2-3-4-5 =) the one with the not very big green bar comes back, one of the other ones nets. I find it's a lot easier for me than actually clicking a Meepo by his health bar.
How do you effectively blink poof with this set up? I like to put all meepos on 1, all but the main meepo on 2 and use F1 to access the main meepo. To blink poof I can tab-w 2 and then F1 blink in. Then I use 3 and 4 if I either split farm or hide a meepo somewhere.
Problem is you always have to remove and add meepos to your control groups and in the fights you have to start click selecting. So I'm interested in your system =)
On October 29 2013 08:01 Dead9 wrote: probably uses the hero portraits in the topleft
yup, 1-2-3-4-5 =) the one with the not very big green bar comes back, one of the other ones nets. I find it's a lot easier for me than actually clicking a Meepo by his health bar.
How do you effectively blink poof with this set up? I like to put all meepos on 1, all but the main meepo on 2 and use F1 to access the main meepo. To blink poof I can tab-w 2 and then F1 blink in. Then I use 3 and 4 if I either split farm or hide a meepo somewhere.
Problem is you always have to remove and add meepos to your control groups and in the fights you have to start click selecting. So I'm interested in your system =)
I'd imagine he either used his select all Meepo button (space), hits Tab once, and then Poof+Tab 4 times in order to give the orders to Meepo's 2-5 but not 1. Or, hits Space, tells all Meepo's to poof, switches back to main Meepo, cancels Poof and blinks.
Just a little tidbit from Notail's stream. He says that the only way to reliably play Meepo in pubs now is to get fast treads + blink and snowball. This is because he has poor jungle capability with the tranquils nerf, and he cannot snowball fast enough without very aggressive blink play.
If he is 1v1, 2v2, or 2v1 then he also gets orb of venom and maxes geostrike instead of net. The two geostrikes do massive damage with the two early meepos, and it is very easy to get first blood.
On October 29 2013 08:01 Dead9 wrote: probably uses the hero portraits in the topleft
yup, 1-2-3-4-5 =) the one with the not very big green bar comes back, one of the other ones nets. I find it's a lot easier for me than actually clicking a Meepo by his health bar.
How do you effectively blink poof with this set up? I like to put all meepos on 1, all but the main meepo on 2 and use F1 to access the main meepo. To blink poof I can tab-w 2 and then F1 blink in. Then I use 3 and 4 if I either split farm or hide a meepo somewhere.
Problem is you always have to remove and add meepos to your control groups and in the fights you have to start click selecting. So I'm interested in your system =)
I'd imagine he either used his select all Meepo button (space), hits Tab once, and then Poof+Tab 4 times in order to give the orders to Meepo's 2-5 but not 1. Or, hits Space, tells all Meepo's to poof, switches back to main Meepo, cancels Poof and blinks.
I actually just go 2-poof 3-poof 4-poof 5-poof, it's not so bad ^^ it's a little more work than tabbing but I like having control over every Meepo individually whenever I want.
Also I will have a couple more replays as soon as midterms are over and I have time to play again! The guide will be getting its full overhaul in like a week and a bit here too =)
On November 03 2013 03:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Does anyone have any replays that showcase good meepo play? The ones in OP are expired
n0tail is always fun to watch, but Eosin is an amazing Meepo player. I don't know if he's pro but he damn well should be, he plays with Purge a lot and is insane at Meepo.
I would usually get an e-blade because it has stats but that's a totally different item. Also, why no Huskar hate? I hate playing against Huskar as Meepo. You can't just poof him down and he can just get an early kill in another lane or have decent farm and suddenly start making your life hell.
well because unless hes so farmed that he can drop you in 5 seconds, you could probably kill him. hes only scary if your teammates feed him a lot. if hes on equal farm or even just slightly ahead you will still probably beat him assuming you have at least 3 meepos
On November 06 2013 01:16 evilfatsh1t wrote: well because unless hes so farmed that he can drop you in 5 seconds, you could probably kill him. hes only scary if your teammates feed him a lot. if hes on equal farm or even just slightly ahead you will still probably beat him assuming you have at least 3 meepos
Yeah, I'm referring to the early game where you only have 2-3 Meepos. He can lifebreak in and start killing one of your Meepos. Usually you can get your poofs off but they won't kill him and then his last bit of health is always hard to finish off. I just find that Huskar is an especially difficult hero to play against because he has the potential to completely shut you down early game.
Have a couple suggestions for the foes and food considerations:
Heroes that have random or short chain damage destination abilities can really struggle vs meepo. Things like eclipse, omnislash, chain frost, etc get soaked up by the meepo army and accomplish not so much. For this reason, I'm not sure luna is really that hard on him since both the glaves and the eclipse follow this pattern.
What meepo is inherently vulnerable to seems to depend a lot on the game. Sometimes single target burst is a huge issue since individual meepos are not all that buff. Other times it doesn't matter if you can evade such things for long enough in the mid game. Sometimes aoe damage is a problem but if it's a team comp you can't run from anyway it doesn't really seem better or worse than single target damage. Big aoe disables seem to be a major problem when your team comp relies on blowing people up quickly so perhaps the presence of these things makes a dagger a lower priority because you'll be forced into a more passive stance.
So I guess what I'm saying is that what gives meepo trouble is really complicated and highly situational. One has to really think about how the fights will go to see what the problems will be.
Generally heroes with AoE damage, disables and slows are troublesome for Meepo. Earthshaker, shadow fiend, lina, magnus, tidehunter for example. He will almost never have trouble with the enemy carry 1v1, it's nasty supports that give you the most trouble.
On November 12 2013 01:06 Gimpb wrote: Nice guide!
Have a couple suggestions for the foes and food considerations:
Heroes that have random or short chain damage destination abilities can really struggle vs meepo. Things like eclipse, omnislash, chain frost, etc get soaked up by the meepo army and accomplish not so much. For this reason, I'm not sure luna is really that hard on him since both the glaves and the eclipse follow this pattern.
actually chain frost has so many jumps and it slows, this one really messes you up. But I agree that luna isnt so hard to deal with, wouldn't really count her as foe.
Have you guys noticed the aegis bug on meepo already? If you die on a streak with aegis, the game will forget your kill streak. I recently went godlike, died with aegis and got killed for a bounty around 300g. Pretty imba.
On November 12 2013 01:06 Gimpb wrote: Nice guide!
Have a couple suggestions for the foes and food considerations:
Heroes that have random or short chain damage destination abilities can really struggle vs meepo. Things like eclipse, omnislash, chain frost, etc get soaked up by the meepo army and accomplish not so much. For this reason, I'm not sure luna is really that hard on him since both the glaves and the eclipse follow this pattern.
actually chain frost has so many jumps and it slows, this one really messes you up. But I agree that luna isnt so hard to deal with, wouldn't really count her as foe.
Have you guys noticed the aegis bug on meepo already? If you die on a streak with aegis, the game will forget your kill streak. I recently went godlike, died with aegis and got killed for a bounty around 300g. Pretty imba.
That is quite huge actually, and I hope they fix it soon, especially that bounties from longer streaks have been changed(I recently got ~600-700 golda for wicked sick or something like that I think).
On November 12 2013 01:06 Gimpb wrote: Nice guide!
Have a couple suggestions for the foes and food considerations:
Heroes that have random or short chain damage destination abilities can really struggle vs meepo. Things like eclipse, omnislash, chain frost, etc get soaked up by the meepo army and accomplish not so much. For this reason, I'm not sure luna is really that hard on him since both the glaves and the eclipse follow this pattern.
actually chain frost has so many jumps and it slows, this one really messes you up. But I agree that luna isnt so hard to deal with, wouldn't really count her as foe.
Have you guys noticed the aegis bug on meepo already? If you die on a streak with aegis, the game will forget your kill streak. I recently went godlike, died with aegis and got killed for a bounty around 300g. Pretty imba.
That is quite huge actually, and I hope they fix it soon, especially that bounties from longer streaks have been changed(I recently got ~600-700 golda for wicked sick or something like that I think).
it is huge, you're missing out on 1000 gold if someone was on a beyond godlike streak
The more hilarious (though somewhat less practical) bug is that with Bloodstone on Meepo, you don't lose charges unless Meepo Prime is the one that was killed. Dying from the death of a Meepo Clone preserves Bloodstone charges.
On November 15 2013 05:19 TheYango wrote: The more hilarious (though somewhat less practical) bug is that with Bloodstone on Meepo, you don't lose charges unless Meepo Prime is the one that was killed. Dying from the death of a Meepo Clone preserves Bloodstone charges.
And you still get charges without Meepo prime being there. But I admit, I do not have the balls to build a bloodstone lol.
I just noticed a funny bug. When I respawned, only 2 of 5 meepos respawned. I could walk around with them, but according to the timer I was to be dead for another 10 seconds. (Not sure if the timer reset or if those two were a little too eager to join the battle again). After those 10 seconds, the other three respawned
On a sidenote, I really don't know how to play meepo now. Tranquils are completely useless on him, and you just can't play like you did before without tranquils. I've tried to go man mode treads + blink, but it requires you to be able to pick off lone heroes since you're still shit in a team fight. And if you don't, you're going to be useless all game without your farm.
Okay, the tango bug is really weird. It only works if you have boots if not the tango disappears. Sometimes your boots disappear as well but reappear later. It's pretty buggy lol.
On November 15 2013 05:19 TheYango wrote: The more hilarious (though somewhat less practical) bug is that with Bloodstone on Meepo, you don't lose charges unless Meepo Prime is the one that was killed. Dying from the death of a Meepo Clone preserves Bloodstone charges.
And you still get charges without Meepo prime being there. But I admit, I do not have the balls to build a bloodstone lol.
On November 15 2013 05:19 TheYango wrote: The more hilarious (though somewhat less practical) bug is that with Bloodstone on Meepo, you don't lose charges unless Meepo Prime is the one that was killed. Dying from the death of a Meepo Clone preserves Bloodstone charges.
And you still get charges without Meepo prime being there. But I admit, I do not have the balls to build a bloodstone lol.
So if your at 25 charges u alwais insta respawn
MAn i goota try that out
I've recently been playing Meepo and whilst I'm still with low tier players. There is nothing that beats getting six slotted with Meepo with bloodstone with 25 charges and travels, it's right up there with a Leoric that has aegis and refresher. Just for fun it's possiple to just feed Meepos to the fountain every 5 seconds (TP time + time for fountain to kill you), whilst their carry has to wait 68 seconds to respwan. I can't imagine how hopeless the other team felt at that point.
I don't have a video, but the match ID is 385573082, if you want a laugh. I'd post a youtube video, but don't really know how to upload dota games to youtube, and can't be bothered with video editing and dubstep.
I played meepo in a game where the entire other team was lvl 25. my team had a lvl 25 clinkz, me lvl 25 meepo and everyone else on my team was less than 16. We won because of clinkz and i. I believe i had treads, vlads, aghs, pipe, Heart, and then i think i left space for tp's or aegis. Clinkz and i out carried the entire other team.
Well one thing meepo tends to do is keep his team slightly underleveled if the majority of their xp comes from teamfights, since he gobbles up xp like the cookie monster. He can almost halve his teams xp with lvl 3 ult and aghs.
I loved to play meepo in DotA 1 and I was quite good with him, but in DotA 2 it simply isn't working. I don't know if it is because the skill level is now way higher, or that I just became bad with the hero.
One change is that the net stops your meepo, while in DotA 1 I think that when I trew a net my hero did not stop moving or maybe it went smoother? I do not know what it is, can't really put my finger on it.
Anybody feels the same? Meepo really became harder to play right?
On December 23 2013 20:31 Koshi wrote: I loved to play meepo in DotA 1 and I was quite good with him, but in DotA 2 it simply isn't working. I don't know if it is because the skill level is now way higher, or that I just became bad with the hero.
One change is that the net stops your meepo, while in DotA 1 I think that when I trew a net my hero did not stop moving or maybe it went smoother? I do not know what it is, can't really put my finger on it.
Anybody feels the same? Meepo really became harder to play right?
Net animation is different, micro isn't the same as in DotA 1 and it's harder, not easier. Yes, most of the Meepo players feel the same, he is quite a different hero in DotA 2.
On December 23 2013 20:31 Koshi wrote: I loved to play meepo in DotA 1 and I was quite good with him, but in DotA 2 it simply isn't working. I don't know if it is because the skill level is now way higher, or that I just became bad with the hero.
One change is that the net stops your meepo, while in DotA 1 I think that when I trew a net my hero did not stop moving or maybe it went smoother? I do not know what it is, can't really put my finger on it.
Anybody feels the same? Meepo really became harder to play right?
Net animation is different, micro isn't the same as in DotA 1 and it's harder, not easier. Yes, most of the Meepo players feel the same, he is quite a different hero in DotA 2.
hmm. Yeah. Sucks because he wasn't strong in DotA 1. I forgot the 1 guy that played an awesome Meepo on Dota-League.com, but I don't remember his name atm, but the hero is really hard now. Way too hard now. It's not rewarding.
On December 23 2013 20:31 Koshi wrote: I loved to play meepo in DotA 1 and I was quite good with him, but in DotA 2 it simply isn't working. I don't know if it is because the skill level is now way higher, or that I just became bad with the hero.
One change is that the net stops your meepo, while in DotA 1 I think that when I trew a net my hero did not stop moving or maybe it went smoother? I do not know what it is, can't really put my finger on it.
Anybody feels the same? Meepo really became harder to play right?
Net animation is different, micro isn't the same as in DotA 1 and it's harder, not easier. Yes, most of the Meepo players feel the same, he is quite a different hero in DotA 2.
hmm. Yeah. Sucks because he wasn't strong in DotA 1. I forgot the 1 guy that played an awesome Meepo on Dota-League.com, but I don't remember his name atm, but the hero is really hard now. Way too hard now. It's not rewarding.
Indeed, but imagine how strong he is in DotA 1 now with all these changes(I wouldn't call them buffs or nerfs, because they just made you play Meepo differently).
He is quite hard to play in a normal pub game, enemy will be able to just focus you down no matter what. But I disagree with you that it is not rewarding, if you play solid Meepo(I can play him quite well on my good day), he can be deadly. Problem is that most of the popular heroes nowadays are such heavy counter to Meepo that it isn't even funny. Basically, you are gambling quite a lot if you want to pick Meepo.
On December 24 2013 02:11 .yo wrote: Excuse me if I'm mistaken, but isn't Meepo's night vision 800 in 6.79?
Yuuuup - I'm working on updating the guide I promise =P just been ultra busy with school basically since the patch, I finally have a chance to play Dota for a few days so it's on the way ^^
If you buyback as Meepo and die again, your main Meepo will respawn from that death after the extended time. However, your secondary Meepos respawn after what would be the regular being-dead-time. When your main Meepo revives, all the Meepos will respawn in base.
Not sure how this is exploitable, since you don't have you blink. You can jungle a few seconds if you're fast but that's it I suppose. Reckon it should be patched though.
I'm actually curious how legit support meepo is. I mean I know Notail used it to great effect, but I was wondering about playing it in mm if it could be effective.
I don't think it would be great, but he does have some advantages at least in the role.
The worst thing about meepo is the fact that even lastpick-pudge calibre strategists opt to counterpick him for some reason.
Like, most of the time you can expect to get away with... idk... qop or something without the other team picking OD. Meepo though, man, you pick meepo before creepspawn, you are guaranteed to face shaker+ember+magnus.
I don't really know why this is, but it makes my sporadic attempts to meepo really, really sad.
On April 03 2014 11:55 Belisarius wrote: The worst thing about meepo is the fact that even lastpick-pudge calibre strategists opt to counterpick him for some reason.
Like, most of the time you can expect to get away with... idk... qop or something without the other team picking OD. Meepo though, man, you pick meepo before creepspawn, you are guaranteed to face shaker+ember+magnus.
I don't really know why this is, but it makes my sporadic attempts to meepo really, really sad.
Can you counterpick the counterpicks? That is, get your allies to counterpick them?
On April 03 2014 11:05 LeLoup wrote: I'm actually curious how legit support meepo is. I mean I know Notail used it to great effect, but I was wondering about playing it in mm if it could be effective.
I don't think it would be great, but he does have some advantages at least in the role.
It's actually not that bad, pretty good at setting up kills + even as support you can farm the woods pretty well.
For some reason it works out better for notail when he does it than it does for me thou.
On April 03 2014 11:05 LeLoup wrote: I'm actually curious how legit support meepo is. I mean I know Notail used it to great effect, but I was wondering about playing it in mm if it could be effective.
I don't think it would be great, but he does have some advantages at least in the role.
As a support, he is very reliant on early game ganking. One of his strengths is a huge roaming coverage. However if there's no opportunity to gank, then he struggles to get the scary boost in levels.
Also support meepo really fades off if the enemy lineup encourages early bkbs. One of the success factor against alliance in CD was because am seldom gets bkb early. That allowed meepo to really shut him down. They also didn't had good cc against meepo. When fnatic used meepo against sigma, it was against Luna that often goes early bkb. They also had mass nukes in mag aa pugna rhasta. There's no way support meepo can do well mid game.
So it's really dependent on how the opponent draft goes. At times it can be very punishing. Sometimes he becomes nonexistent.
I wonder if we get to see some more meepo mid. He's actually quite strong there, one of the best melees mid I'd say. Since the bottle change you can now bottle all your meepos, and you have great rune control since you have two of them. You can easily poof clear waves and get runes or stack forest, and you can search for ganks in other lanes without having to leave mid. There's great potential to being extremely efficient.
The problem with meepo mid is that the enemy must take a utility melee mid. He will automatically loose his lane to most common ranged mids. Most melee-mids have a long range nuke they can spam with bottlecrowing. Meepo must go next to the creeps and channel to farm, which makes him really weak vs ranged harass.
Aside from that you could play him mid a bit like an sf, stacking a hard camp on the side/control the rune with your additional meepo.
And slightly above-average move speed. Take boots, go offlane? If you can safely get level 3, you can start contributing to your team and become more resilient against ganks.
Carry Meepo needs massive backup after picking up his Blink and Agh's (maybe even the situational pos 1 Mek) and is moving towards a HoT whilst he soaks two lanes and the jungle and like 50% of the experience from every kill he's in, which makes him hard to fit into a lineup. (He's like a greedy Anti-Mage)
Mid Meepo is interesting. With the ult at level 3 you have the possibility to go 0-2-0-1 which, paired with a smokegank from a support with a stun, is pretty much a sure kill on any level 3 mid. However, it doesn't matter that he has high EHP because putting anything in the midlane that scales well early and can translate early farm into kills (Lanaya, Viper, DK, SF, Kael etc) he's done. You need at least a support dedicated to watching your back through the early-game but it can be potent.
Offlane Meepo is big if you get unimpaired level 3 (much easier as Radiant with an available pull camp if denied exp) but if he gets denied level 3 before mid hits 6 you're kind of done. After level 3 with low farm priority though, just get PTs (the only 100% stat share item before Aghs) and a Blink and just go around the map killing stuff.
Utility/Jungle Meepo works the same way. Pull your way to level 3 and start setting up kills.
On April 06 2014 06:39 Blackfeather wrote: The problem with meepo mid is that the enemy must take a utility melee mid. He will automatically loose his lane to most common ranged mids. Most melee-mids have a long range nuke they can spam with bottlecrowing. Meepo must go next to the creeps and channel to farm, which makes him really weak vs ranged harass.
Aside from that you could play him mid a bit like an sf, stacking a hard camp on the side/control the rune with your additional meepo.
He might be weak to harass, but harass doesn't do that much to him since he will have superior bottle control and two meepos, one which could in worst case be on route to the fountain all the time and then poof back. I've done some 1v1s against a friend of similar skill, and I won against DK, won decisively against TA, barely lost to storm and lost hard to SF. Might not be that useful information though since usually a mid meepo probably shouldn't try to kill without a support, but at least it should be impossible to deny him farm.
Offlane meepo I've actually never tried. Might just give it a shot someday.
On April 07 2014 17:38 ahswtini wrote: So what is it that makes him a harder hero to play in Dota 2 compared to WC3 Dota?
His net animation for me. But I haven't tried him anymore so meh. When I am playing unranked with froends I might pick him up again. In wc3 the net animation could be spammed instantly with all meepos and they wouldn't stop running. Now there is this trow animation and they stop running, so when you trow nets with all meepos you lose a lot of time because you got to right click as well.
I don't know what I am saying here is true btw. I haven't played him a lot because I tend to only play ranked and the 2-3 times I played him I felt there was something off and I haven't played him in ages since.
I actually made a game the other day where you can practice blink poofs It's not exactly the same feeling as in game, but good enough for my purposes.
Haven't gotten around to actually uploading it somewhere live, but it can be downloaded from GitHub if you're intrested. Hotkeys and groups are hard coded, but can easily be changed in game.js.
On April 07 2014 17:38 ahswtini wrote: So what is it that makes him a harder hero to play in Dota 2 compared to WC3 Dota?
His net animation for me. But I haven't tried him anymore so meh. When I am playing unranked with froends I might pick him up again. In wc3 the net animation could be spammed instantly with all meepos and they wouldn't stop running. Now there is this trow animation and they stop running, so when you trow nets with all meepos you lose a lot of time because you got to right click as well.
I don't know about the right-click part (I thought that in DotA you had to right click as well afterwards), but I think there's more of a delay for netting, certainly.
The other big thing is that there is no smart casting (WC3/Starcraft 2) in DotA 2. In WC3, you could select all Meepos and click the skill 4 times and each Meepo will cast. Not only that, but the closest Meepo to the target location will go first, which is critically useful for netting. In DotA 2 you have to manually select the closest Meepo which is a huge pain in the ass. You also have to tab between Meepos every single time due to no smart cast.
I guess with a macro you could bind skill use to be equivalent to skill use followed by a tab, but I don't know if there's problems with that (you wouldn't be able to poof then net with the same Meepo, but that's not a huge problem unless other Meepos are out of mana)
Played a 75 - 80 minute game as Meepo. Had a poor star but ultimately came online because of my epic team. We had all the initiation we just needed me to go and in do the finishing blows.
The problem was like and his aganames scepter. Now it bounced indefinitely, linkons doesent stop it either. When you have 5 meepos in a team fight and all the lich does it wait for Meepo to come in it's like auto death Meepo. There is no choice to split, but super late game the team fights go by so quickly...
While I'm somewhat uncertain what "bloodstone thing" required fixing, I would assert that you would be wasting 5K *every* time when purchasing that item on meepo. Because literally 0 of the things that item gives barring potentially the respawn timer shortening should propagate to other meepos.
On May 06 2014 05:48 Sn0_Man wrote: While I'm somewhat uncertain what "bloodstone thing" required fixing, I would assert that you would be wasting 5K *every* time when purchasing that item on meepo. Because literally 0 of the things that item gives barring potentially the respawn timer shortening should propagate to other meepos.
Why assert anything if you don't even know what he's talking about?
In any case if the Bloodstone exploit was fixed that's a good thing. It's like PL/Naga but 10 times more difficult to deal with if Meepo gets the right start. No reason for it to be in the game.
Bloodstone was fixed. In my opinion it wasn't really worth it anyway when you can just buff your Meepo. If you're high enough level to get blood stone, chances are you were quite well farmed or fed, and hence have considerably more experience and gold than others (namely the enemy). With the bugged stone, you would still lose your gold when you die, as well as give gold and experience to the enemy — which is particularly not good when those are the things you're leading in.
Because it wasn't hardly ever worth getting, it doesn't make to much sense to at all prioritize the bug for fixing, but I can't say it shouldn't be fixed, because practically all bugs should be fixed.
What's dumb is that despite that having been fixed, I don't think they fixed the respawn time disparity between main Meepo and his clones when he's bought back (unrelated to bloodstone)
On May 06 2014 05:48 Sn0_Man wrote: While I'm somewhat uncertain what "bloodstone thing" required fixing, I would assert that you would be wasting 5K *every* time when purchasing that item on meepo. Because literally 0 of the things that item gives barring potentially the respawn timer shortening should propagate to other meepos.
Because hariooo didn't tell you, I'll explain the bug: When a Meepo clone's death triggered the other Meepos to die, it didn't deduct any bloodstone charges. That obviously made hard to lose bloodstone charges while playing as Meepo hence very quickly giving instant respawn, and virtually never losing it either. It wouldn't reduce the gold lost when dying though, only the re-spawn cool-down. Combined with boost of travel I guess it makes it even crazier since with 5 Meepos boots' cooldown doesn't come into effect until it's been used more than 5 times in 60 seconds..
You kinda need to respawn quickly since you'll die a lot if you waste your gold on bloodstone so yeah I'm not sure it needed "fixing". I'll just keep not buying it anyway ^^
On June 09 2014 01:05 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Earthshaker?
Make sure you stay so far ahead of him that his dunk can't kill you. Don't let him get items like aghs, veil, refresher etc. Get HP items - casual reaver (into heart later on), skadi. You could go sheep stick and jump on him first but that's a bit risky if you don't manage to kill him before sheep wears off..
On June 09 2014 01:05 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Earthshaker?
Don't pick Meepo
But it's no different than any other hero. Avoid clumping up, especially with your creep wave. You just have to be more careful as Meepo. Typically in a team fight you have your initiator go in before you do as Meepo anyway so you can avoid a lot of the initial AoEs that typically is flying around.
Pipe isn't a bad pickup on Meepo either honestly if nobody else wants to grab it vs. ES.
So I've played a couple bot games with meepo and I'm confused. So let's say you net a hero with your first meepo. He's locked down but youre too far away to poof onto him. How do you close the gap, keep him netted, and get all your meepos to poof at the same time without having to select each meepo > hit poof > select the meepo you're trying to poof to? Do you just have to be ridiculously fast? Or is there a trick I'm missing? I just can't seem to net, approach, and poof fast enough....
Blink dagger is considered core on meepo as a gap closer. You basically queue up the poofs first onto your main meepo, then blink next to the target and net them. You can follow up the blink net with a poof on the main meepo if needed as well.
You queue up poofs by simply cycling through tab-poof-click for however many clones you have. You don't even need them all in a Ctrl group to do this. Your main focus while learning should be on accurate keystrokes rather than speed. It doesn't take super fast fingers to do this, but it does take accurate keystrokes.
So blink into melee range, net at melee range, tab to meepo 2, poof to meepo 1, tab to meepo 3, poof to meepo 1, etc? If done quickly enough, the tab poof tab poof tab poof method will get all the meepos to the target in the duration of a single net? Because that would be amazing. And considering all the other meepos have not yet arrived to the fight, using their nets isn't really an option.
I have a question about another scenario: say youre roaming around as a group of 4 or 5 meepos when you come upon a solo enemy. What's the best way to get all your meepos in poof range of this enemy? Can you queue up nets by tabbing through each meepo and tossing a net while trying to move at least one meepo closer for poof spam?
Edit: is there a damn guide video somewhere? I would love to see how this all is supposed to work.
No you queue up all the poofs first, and then during the middle of the poof 'dancing' animation/cast time is when you run into range and blink into net. All the meepo clones should poof on top of the target right after you blink on the target so that they have as little time to react to it as possible.
On June 10 2014 07:15 Skyro wrote: No you queue up all the poofs first, and then during the middle of the poof 'dancing' animation/cast time is when you run into range and blink into net. All the meepo clones should poof on top of the target right after you blink on the target so that they have as little time to react to it as possible.
On June 09 2014 01:05 BlitzerSC wrote: How do you deal with Earthshaker?
I don't think a perfect way to deal with him or Lich. Most efficient way is to bait him to ulti for some other things every time. But the problem is, any ES player would wait for all meepos to clump together for ulti. I heard in somewhere that, NoTail mentions about how ES hard counters meepo in general. I fear Lich more than ES because you can "survive" a dunk but Lich ulti is just pathetic.
vs Lich you can also keep one Meepo out of the fight (or TP one back to base, so BoTs can be nice here) and then poof to them to get out of the fight, wait out the Lich ult bounces and then poof back in.
I don't even consider Lich ulti to be that dangerous tbh. At least before he gets his Agha. The damage it does is not that much considering that Meepo has 35% magic resistance. I never had many problems with it, but maybe I was just getting lucky with the bounces. Echo Slam, on other hand, instantly drops you below 50% hp with no problems and you also have to deal with the fissure coming after... ugh, I wish there was a good way to deal with him other than getting really far ahead or hoping that the ES is bad. ES is pretty much the only reason I don't play Meepo, which is a shame, since I really enjoy the hero.
So I've gone with the control groups that Notail recommends .I have main meepo @1, all meepos @2, meepo2 @3, 3@4, 4@5. To poof someone to death, I have been trying 3 > W > Click, 4 > W > Click, 5 > W > Click etc. If I go as fast as I can, I still can't get all Meepos queued up for poofs and then still have time to blink to the target. When I watch other people do it, it looks like their poofs happen almost all at the same time, whereas mine are delayed. Am I missing something? Or am I just really slow because I'm new to Meepo? Is there a way to tell 4 Meepos to poof at the same time to the main one? Like can I change a setting in Dota to duplicate a single keystroke across all Meepos? Or does that not exist?
Just use tab-poof-click method, that way it's just a simple rotation of 3 keys that you spam for however many Meepo clones you have at that time. Like I said, focus on keystroke accuracy at the start, then speed it up as you get more comfortable you can go faster but remain accurate. If you're accurate, you don't even need to have them in a control group at the time you start tab-poof-clicking, as if you have the main meepo selected only, tab will still cycle through your Meepo clones. If you're accurate with the keystrokes then the last tab should take you right back to the main Meepo so you can blink > net.
There's no method as far as I'm aware that let's you issue to the poof command to all Meepo clones simultaneously. The ctrl groups for the individual Meepo clones are for control purposes (to split and jungle, push lanes, whatever), not really to make blink poofing faster.
On June 11 2014 10:42 Ayaz2810 wrote: When I watch other people do it, it looks like their poofs happen almost all at the same time, whereas mine are delayed. Am I missing something? Or am I just really slow because I'm new to Meepo? Is there a way to tell 4 Meepos to poof at the same time to the main one? Like can I change a setting in Dota to duplicate a single keystroke across all Meepos? Or does that not exist?
If you've been watching replays, it might be because there's currently some bug with it that i've noticed. When I looked at top plays 82, meepo #9, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rOxvIkBw8U) I was raging like a madman that a meepo with script made it to the top 10 because those poofs are while not instant still incredibly fast. However, a little later I checked an older replay of myself and noticed the same crazy poofs. Might be because I jumped back and forth and the clock got confused, or that it was a replay from an older version.
What do you guys typically go for as a first item on meepo? I've tried rushing blink first but my meepos die to quickly. I've been going vlads because it helps me catch up farm in the jungle. Then I typically go blink or aghs. Keep in mind this is in pretty low level pubs (~3.5k) so most of the time my opponents will harass me in lane then completely forget about me, allowing me to farm vlads and aghs by 20 minutes and typically steamrolling the game after that.
Beyond the whole learning the hero and the micro, I honestly dont see why Meepo couldnt become a descent competitive pick. At the very least a somewhat common 4th/5th pick if you're certain the most dangerous es/lich/whatever counters are out of the way.
The burst potential is huge. He shits on all kinds of healing heroes. Living armor or aphotic shield or similar doesnt do shit when your friend is being whacked+poofed on by 4-5 meepos. Heroes without escapes or blink/invis-escapes can be pretty much perma rooted. QoPs, AMs, BHs are easy prey. Heroes that does damage over time or builds up their damage just dont do damage fast enough.
You really need at least a couple good heroes versus him. A lot of common or semi-common heroes like weaver, mirana, viper, razor an many more just really cant deal with him.
Obviously theres a bunch of very dangerous heroes for him too, but if you dont pick him up until late in the draft I feel he has good potential to completely win the draft for you.
On June 11 2014 03:15 BlitzerSC wrote: I don't even consider Lich ulti to be that dangerous tbh. At least before he gets his Agha. The damage it does is not that much considering that Meepo has 35% magic resistance. I never had many problems with it, but maybe I was just getting lucky with the bounces. Echo Slam, on other hand, instantly drops you below 50% hp with no problems and you also have to deal with the fissure coming after... ugh, I wish there was a good way to deal with him other than getting really far ahead or hoping that the ES is bad. ES is pretty much the only reason I don't play Meepo, which is a shame, since I really enjoy the hero.
edit: I might actually try going Pipe on Meepo.
Meepo doesn't have extra MR for quite some time. It is standard %25 now. Lich ulti is problematic after aghs and/or there are other people around to nuke the double-bounced clone. Also Lich provides AOE slow with both nuke and ulti.
Pipe may be ok for lich because you see the animation and can click before it hits but ES with blink is instant with a built-in stun. And several stuns come after it, you can barely move.
I think the problem with meepo is not just AOE nukes rather he is so susceptible to any form of damage. You can't use bkb and single target high damage nukes wrecks especially clones. You are susceptible to AOE nukes most of the time either amplified by clones or stun your whole crew.(no bkb again) Meepo doesn't have any method to save a clone if someone focus physical damage on him. (no ghost or armor from items not shared). No protection against pure damage.
You basically eat everything in your face.
Edit: Memory has failed. I was so sure that it was changed back, I am speechless now. I need to retire. Doesn't matter, all points are still valid imo
On June 11 2014 03:15 BlitzerSC wrote: I don't even consider Lich ulti to be that dangerous tbh. At least before he gets his Agha. The damage it does is not that much considering that Meepo has 35% magic resistance. I never had many problems with it, but maybe I was just getting lucky with the bounces. Echo Slam, on other hand, instantly drops you below 50% hp with no problems and you also have to deal with the fissure coming after... ugh, I wish there was a good way to deal with him other than getting really far ahead or hoping that the ES is bad. ES is pretty much the only reason I don't play Meepo, which is a shame, since I really enjoy the hero.
edit: I might actually try going Pipe on Meepo.
Meepo doesn't have extra MR for quite some time. It is standard %25 now. Lich ulti is problematic after aghs and/or there are other people around to nuke the double-bounced clone. Also Lich provides AOE slow with both nuke and ulti.
Pipe may be ok for lich because you see the animation and can click before it hits but ES with blink is instant with a built-in stun. And several stuns come after it, you can barely move.
I think the problem with meepo is not just AOE nukes rather he is so susceptible to any form of damage. You can't use bkb and single target high damage nukes wrecks especially clones. You are susceptible to AOE nukes most of the time either amplified by clones or stun your whole crew.(no bkb again) Meepo doesn't have any method to save a clone if someone focus physical damage on him. (no ghost or armor from items not shared). No protection against pure damage.
You basically eat everything in your face.
Re: bold above is that right? It was only increased in 6.78, and though I do kind-of remember seeing the numbers tweaked lower, I can't find any patch notes on it.
Edit: Nevermind just checked in-game, it is still 35%. I think I was remembering the 30% Stat-Sharing from Aghs.
On June 11 2014 03:15 BlitzerSC wrote: I don't even consider Lich ulti to be that dangerous tbh. At least before he gets his Agha. The damage it does is not that much considering that Meepo has 35% magic resistance. I never had many problems with it, but maybe I was just getting lucky with the bounces. Echo Slam, on other hand, instantly drops you below 50% hp with no problems and you also have to deal with the fissure coming after... ugh, I wish there was a good way to deal with him other than getting really far ahead or hoping that the ES is bad. ES is pretty much the only reason I don't play Meepo, which is a shame, since I really enjoy the hero.
edit: I might actually try going Pipe on Meepo.
Meepo doesn't have extra MR for quite some time. It is standard %25 now. Lich ulti is problematic after aghs and/or there are other people around to nuke the double-bounced clone. Also Lich provides AOE slow with both nuke and ulti.
Pipe may be ok for lich because you see the animation and can click before it hits but ES with blink is instant with a built-in stun. And several stuns come after it, you can barely move.
I think the problem with meepo is not just AOE nukes rather he is so susceptible to any form of damage. You can't use bkb and single target high damage nukes wrecks especially clones. You are susceptible to AOE nukes most of the time either amplified by clones or stun your whole crew.(no bkb again) Meepo doesn't have any method to save a clone if someone focus physical damage on him. (no ghost or armor from items not shared). No protection against pure damage.
You basically eat everything in your face.
Edit: Memory has failed. I was so sure that it was changed back, I am speechless now. I need to retire. Doesn't matter, all points are still valid imo
That is why it is important to hit the timing window where Meepo has a huge level/farm advantage so he can just tank through everything. Meepo is not considered an ultra-late game carry. If you're in a team you can also draft around Meepo to counter Meepo counters, like Silencer.
So I'm happy to report that I think I've got the hang of meepo. Thanks to this thread of course. I've had a bad run my last 3 games, but that's been mainly due to the curse that a RL witch doctor has apparently put on me without my knowledge. The one where I'm doomed to have the mid and a support go ~1-10 every game I play. I started off 6-1 with meepo and felt damn near invincible. If you have the multitasking ability of a gold league sc2 player, and can keep yourself from panic chaining nets, meepo is pretty disgusting. I probably have a dozen kills across my games that happened at level 3 in lane because people underestimate a support stun into double net into double poof. Even with my bad luck recently, I fuckin love meepo.
On June 11 2014 10:42 Ayaz2810 wrote: So I've gone with the control groups that Notail recommends .I have main meepo @1, all meepos @2, meepo2 @3, 3@4, 4@5. To poof someone to death, I have been trying 3 > W > Click, 4 > W > Click, 5 > W > Click etc. If I go as fast as I can, I still can't get all Meepos queued up for poofs and then still have time to blink to the target. When I watch other people do it, it looks like their poofs happen almost all at the same time, whereas mine are delayed. Am I missing something? Or am I just really slow because I'm new to Meepo? Is there a way to tell 4 Meepos to poof at the same time to the main one? Like can I change a setting in Dota to duplicate a single keystroke across all Meepos? Or does that not exist?
Personally I would recommend doing one hotkey for: 1) Main meepo 2) All meepos (can be set in in-game menu) 3) All other meepos (also can be set in in-game menu) 4) 2 Meepo clones 5) the other 2 Meepo clones
The reason is because it's easier for beginners and you almost never need to have all your meepos split individually anyway. To pull back hurt meepos you're going to be looking at the health bars anyway so you can just click and pull them back. And for all laning and jungling purposes you want Meepos to be in pairs as you need 2 poofs to clear creep waves and jungle stacks.
And in team fights you want at least 2 meepos on a target for enough slow stacking from geostrike to stick on the target. If you want to keep the enemy team slowed and avoid AoE in teamfights, after I blink-poof in I typically split 2 meepos on one target, 2 on another target, then stick my main meepo on another (who won't need another meepo since he'll proc skadi). This will keep 3 targets slowed by 40+%.
Also there is another in-game option (I forget what it's called) that allows you to make a command to all controlled units by holding down ctrl, regardless of the current ctrl group selected. It's a nice feature to get used to when playing Meepo.
Aghs/Blink/Hex is like the ganking build. Good vs rats Aghs/Blink/Skadi is more manfight.
But you want both Skadi and Hex. It actually isn't that good to stack skadis. Hex is way too good not go on on him. Blink Hex has always been one of the strongest initations in the game, which is why blink is so good on Lion/Rhasta etc.
You want Boots, Blink, Aghs, Sheep, Skadi and then 6th suited depending on the game. Some likes Manta on him, but I dunno if I do personally.
I used to rush skadis after agha/blink, but lately I've bought hex first after those two cores and I feel like that item is just too damn good.
Obviously it's a must buy vs stuff like PAs with evasion, but in general it just secures kills 100% vs pretty much everything. Euls/forcestaffs doesnt matter, they all die.
I dont really feel it's ever worth getting skadi first anymore, but I always go skadi afterwards.
ill start trying hex after blink or first skadi then game is usually decided one way or the other after that first skadi appears for me tho, im not the best farmer
But I'm having a _real_ hard time getting my agh without the game ending. A lot of times my team is behind on kills. Do I just keep farming, or do I participate? I honestly only know how to fight after I get my agh / blink, but I'm sure there's more to be done before that. Tab poofing is definitely not the hard part of the hero.
More specifically, what do you do at level 3 - 10 when you only have 2 meepos? Do you keep both in lane? Use 1 to pull jungle? Or straight up farm 2 lanes? I think I need some input on that aspect.
Most of the games I don't think I have any momentum at all. With just 2 meepo so often I find myself at level 9 and everyone else is also level 9... There's gotta be something that's off. With 2 meepo what do I do? Do I just move around the jungle and keep clearing it (Stack if possible) ?
Just had a game where the moment I got my aghs our throne blew up. 22 min game. I honeslty don't know how to play.
On August 01 2014 18:27 evanthebouncy! wrote: guys i can do all the micro perfect.
But I'm having a _real_ hard time getting my agh without the game ending. A lot of times my team is behind on kills. Do I just keep farming, or do I participate? I honestly only know how to fight after I get my agh / blink, but I'm sure there's more to be done before that. Tab poofing is definitely not the hard part of the hero.
More specifically, what do you do at level 3 - 10 when you only have 2 meepos? Do you keep both in lane? Use 1 to pull jungle? Or straight up farm 2 lanes? I think I need some input on that aspect.
Most of the games I don't think I have any momentum at all. With just 2 meepo so often I find myself at level 9 and everyone else is also level 9... There's gotta be something that's off. With 2 meepo what do I do? Do I just move around the jungle and keep clearing it (Stack if possible) ?
Just had a game where the moment I got my aghs our throne blew up. 22 min game. I honeslty don't know how to play.
i like to play mid and get a bottle (poof is super mana efficient and you can walk main meepo home and poof out for cheap refill, can use bottle on 2nd meepo while fountain regen active for free) so i can spam poof to clear wave then go into jungle OR keep one meepo farming lane while stacking hard camp with other meepo, eventually poof hard camp to death. you definitely should be hitting 10 before anyone else who's not getting fed, and you have easy kill potential after level 4 with any 1 support throwing out a stun/nuke, just follow up with net walk up poof net(refresh) poof
if your throne blew up 22 minute game that probably means enemy picked really fast 5man push OR ran a gank train. part of meepo's job is to thin the enemy out by poof-pushing every lane the enemy abandons as fast as possible to draw heroes back into those lanes. always carry tp after 3 minutes and use liberally to flash farm everywhere except where you can get killed.
I've been practicing a bit of Meepo lately, mostly playing safelane carry since I'm not confident in going mid.
And my question is how do I farm efficently levels 3-10? When I get my 3rd meepo farming 2 places at once gets easy obviously, but when I only have acces to 2 meepos should I just send 1 to the jungle and go back and regen him whenever needed which feels like all the time at low levels while also farming with the main meepo on lane.
And which boots are the best ones? Tranquil and Power treads both seem really good, and when do I replace my boots with BoTs?
I usually go Tranquil since it's cheap and the regen helps a lot early on.
I use my 2nd meepo to continually stack the jungle closest to mid lane because it is harder for the enemy to steal and allows you to protect or possibly gank mid. If the Meepo in lane gets low I just swap places with the stacking Meepo.
I don't get BoTs until I at least have aghs/blink/heart or skadi. Meepo can split push fine without it, it's more of a convenience item on Meepo.
He build phaseboot first, and maxed out geostrike before maxing poof. Here's his BO: poof / geo / ult / geo / geo / net / geo / poof / poof / ult
I think it's actually a fairly strong build. It goes online much sooner than a poof centric meepo. He was so active in early ganks, just pounded the other guys down with phaseboot + geostrike on 2 meepos. I think in pub this might be superior as poof require some kind of stun by supports. This way he use auto-attack to deal dmg early, and only use blink / poof when he has 3+ meepos.
Something to keep in mind.
Some obvious disadvantage would be bad at flash farming early, and bad jungle clearing, and lack of burst damage early.
However, many of us do have the concern of "what do I do when I only have 2 meepos pre lvl 10 and cannot really use 2 meepo to jungle while keep the main one in lane". I think his build addresses this issue perfectly. With 2 meepo maxed out geostrike the thing to do is actually to gank until lvl 10. Then you can use 2 meepos to farm the jungle as usual.
On August 03 2014 15:04 Nomzter wrote: I've been practicing a bit of Meepo lately, mostly playing safelane carry since I'm not confident in going mid.
And my question is how do I farm efficently levels 3-10? When I get my 3rd meepo farming 2 places at once gets easy obviously, but when I only have acces to 2 meepos should I just send 1 to the jungle and go back and regen him whenever needed which feels like all the time at low levels while also farming with the main meepo on lane.
And which boots are the best ones? Tranquil and Power treads both seem really good, and when do I replace my boots with BoTs?
I feel that getting Tranquil early is huge help. He is not like other heroes where you can't keep farming because you need to heal with Tranquils, you can always heal one of them while other is farming.
When I am on the easy lane, I farm with main Meepo, while my 2nd is stacking big camps and is clearing small camps which shouldn't be hard with poof. After you stacked 3 times you clear the camp with both Meepos, get back with the main Meepo to the lane and repeat the whole process.
I usually rush Travel as soon as Aghanim and Blink are finished, but sometimes when there is a lot of fighting and when I am having a rough time I make Treads and then I switch to Travel later when I can.
Maybe it's just bias, but I personally don't like the [new] tranquil boots on Meepo at all.
I really love rushing travels so much. Phase boots and Power Treads give great effects, but I just can't get over the constant fountain and lane teleporting that BoT has. It's like rushing a Midas, except in a virtual way it's saving a ton more money per minute than a Midas would bring in (worth of portal scrolls), with potentially even greater savings (late game you can teleport 5 times a minute, not that it's ever really used that often for any sustained period of time)
Problem is that in games where you can't get the good farm or a kill early on, or are slowed by dying or buying Portal scrolls, it can be a really big problem and snowball poorly.
Phase boots is pretty great in 1v1, or general mid or ganker from levels 3-14, but after you get agh's they're kinda junk.
For jungling, you can move a Meepo to a creep camp and then poof the other one so that half it's poof damage hits the creeps (while the other Meepo deals full poof damage), and quickly run back to lane, or if someone's in your lane with you, it's not that important to get back to the lane quickly, so you could even walk both Meepos there to deal full poof damage. That can even be timed so that in solo situations you won't miss much or anything.
There's been a lot of ways people have played Meepo successfully, so it's a bit uncertain what might be a "best" way of going about things.
On August 16 2014 14:54 goody153 wrote: How fast is the normal aghs timing as solo mid ?
i can get it like 14-17 minutes .. is that slow ? that's when i am in radiant and i do ganks with my other meepo at those times
when i am in dire it's 3-5 minutes longer
those timings is when nobody is ganking me
Depends on what build you're going. Are you going aghs first? In that case 17 minutes sounds very slow. Imo you should only go aghs first when you have complete free farm, and the rest of your team is doing fine without you for some time. This is almost never the case when I play (and I usually go mid), and I often find myself going bottle, PT, blink before aghs. I really think this is the most fun way to play meepo anyway instead of afk-farming.
On August 16 2014 14:54 goody153 wrote: How fast is the normal aghs timing as solo mid ?
i can get it like 14-17 minutes .. is that slow ? that's when i am in radiant and i do ganks with my other meepo at those times
when i am in dire it's 3-5 minutes longer
those timings is when nobody is ganking me
Depends on what build you're going. Are you going aghs first? In that case 17 minutes sounds very slow. Imo you should only go aghs first when you have complete free farm, and the rest of your team is doing fine without you for some time. This is almost never the case when I play (and I usually go mid), and I often find myself going bottle, PT, blink before aghs. I really think this is the most fun way to play meepo anyway instead of afk-farming.
On August 16 2014 18:29 goody153 wrote: threads/bottle(if midlane) ---> aquila -- > poor mans shield ---> aghs
that's what i build .. i only get blink first when i am not the midlane and i am laning with another carry ..or just playing support
so it's slow .. gotta improve that farming then
and also afk farming can get you close to 6 slot in 30-45 minutes though but roaming is so damn fun
With those items before the aghs 17 is not slow any more, in fact then it's quite good I'd say considering mid is usually not free farm. Why would you go poor man's sheild that late though? Feels like it doesnt do much then.
On August 16 2014 18:29 goody153 wrote: threads/bottle(if midlane) ---> aquila -- > poor mans shield ---> aghs
that's what i build .. i only get blink first when i am not the midlane and i am laning with another carry ..or just playing support
so it's slow .. gotta improve that farming then
and also afk farming can get you close to 6 slot in 30-45 minutes though but roaming is so damn fun
With those items before the aghs 17 is not slow any more, in fact then it's quite good I'd say considering mid is usually not free farm. Why would you go poor man's sheild that late though? Feels like it doesnt do much then.
yeah i get poormanshiled after basilius .. so i should switch it then ?
idk man feels slow .. but this was free farm lanes .. i mean this timing i am not under a lot of pressure .. i have not played a game yet where i am heavily ganked
EDIT:
well i remember a game where i got ganked a lot and i was not mid that time .. i got my aghs like 30~ish minutes .. lol i felt like shit after that game
Another question :
A few years ago i would get mek + vlads + pipe .. i know it's terrible
but is mek or vlads still a viable pickup ? or i should still prioritize aghs or dagger ? if yes when do i pick up those items ?
I usually think like this. If I have complete free farm, i go aghs first. This is rare since if most often go mid. I then consider the aghs to be a farming item that helps me further accelerate my farm. This way I get to skip smaller items like PMS, basilus, bottle and go straight for the good things.
Mek and vlads are relatively cheap items that lets me fight quickly, and I get them before aghs if I really have to. This is if the enemy team is pushing down our towers, leaving me little space to farm, and my own team really can't do without me. Also consider delaying blink if you're up against 5-man dota and your team has other sources of initiation, or if you're the ones getting initiated on.
I think stuff like aquila, mek, vlads are garbage to build on meepo unless you're a support one. There's always someone else that can build those items and they're just filling up your inventory slots. With proper jungling you get like 16 minutes treads,agha,dagger and can start fighting.
Have your team stall while you farm at least one lane + entire jungle til you get those items and just fight from that point on.
If I'm safelane, I'll farm til I'm 7 for max poof and will leave the lane for some support to catch up on some exp+farm while I take over the entire jungle. When you're 10 and get a third meepo you can farm a lane while doing that too.
If Aquila gave an additional armor for the aura I'd totally upgrade to it frequently, but right now the only time I'd ever get it is if I'm doing too terrible to afford an ultimate orb or ghost scepter (I tend to keep basillius until late-game when slots needed)
I like Basilius as a starter item since it gives both protection and damage and regen, from there for me it's just too fun and useful to not rush BoT. I totally agree Vlads isn't good on Meepo— at least the Meepo I play. If you get like phase boots or treads with geostrike early, I suppose it's decent since you'll need something to heal, plus you'll deal more attack damage.
Just like Vlad's, I'd say Mek can work on a Meepo without BoT; Probably best on a support-style play. I don't really like getting it unless it's 1v1 solo mid where you will never be able to afford a aghanim's. It's not particularly effective for it's cost, if you were to consider it like extra health (although it is more than that), it's only like getting 13 str worth of attributes for all meepos, which isn't as effective in cost as any attribute item like an ulti orb or ghost scepter or half of Agh's that gives the str+agil.
I personally don't like getting a shield of any type because it seems quite unnecessary since the level 3 (or even level 4) change. If your main Meepo takes much damage early on, you can use a tango or two (or none), then wait for level 3, and send it to the fountain. Maybe a bit of lost gold, but not as much as the shield costs.
The only viable starting items for Meepo in my opinion is either Basilius, boots, or bottle. (plus tango of course), since it's really hard to justify a quelling or shield when you get that extra Meepo at level 3. Especially if one has a RoB, it seems not particularly necessary to have a bottle either, since one can buy so many tangos/salves for that equivalent price, and the rune storage feature is generally useless for Meepo. The main benefit over tangos just seems to be the mana gain from it which doesn't seem _that_ necessary nor beneficial.
I actually just copied singsing in buying poor mans shield early lol :D
i always buy aquila it seems to help all my meepos in terms of mana and it gives extra stats so i see no reason why not buy it .. not to mention its cheap
idk if that was efficient also normally if i am against a strong lane like DP or huskar that i can't kill. When i get to level 3 i start farming both neutrals and leave one meepo in the lane just for the xp and occasional last hit. That's the reasoning why i buy poor mans shield .. I send the one with poor mans shield in the lane while the other one farms in the neuts. Only the small camp and of course. When i farm the medium camp i bring the two meepos but seriously i just brought poor mans just because singsing was buying it .. i am just trying to rationalize :D
Also this way i am keeping my eye on the safelane and can get a gank when my team needs it.
Early BoT seems really weak since you only have two meepo and normally there is another carry in the team. So can't farm everything in the map. Early dagger is better. I actually last priority the item when i get six slot and i just replace the threads that time.
Poor Man Shield helps a lot from my experience, and that is also what N0tail said in his interview about Meepo(or guide, I can't remember).
I usually play him in the safe lane and the reason why I am using Poor Man shield is because my main Meepo is farming in the lane while my second Meepo is stacking few camps in the jungle and I am not sending Meepos to the fountain that often, another reason why I am going for Tranquils early.
Best Meepo player since forever. If you understand mandarin, niuwa's meepo has always been a joy to watch.
Totally different style from singsing/excalibur Meepo, in that he prefers to be interactive, rather than just farming and carrying. This video shows how calm he is several times when he almost got killed.
I kinda grew tired at videos of pro meepo players, when it basically them just blink poofing and carrying late game, or them diving fountain while 5/6 slotted. The good meepo plays are those that show players reacting and microing when in trouble, with good splits and clutch TP into return kills. What's so nice about watching meepo surviving Chain Frosts + Echo Slams just because they are overfed/overlevelled?
On August 17 2014 19:59 DucK- wrote: Best Meepo player since forever. If you understand mandarin, niuwa's meepo has always been a joy to watch.
He used to play a bit of dota 2 too. I remember watching a few movies of his play. I think he streamed on some site and vods got uploaded to youtube. For all I know he still does.
On August 17 2014 19:59 DucK- wrote: What's so nice about watching meepo surviving Chain Frosts + Echo Slams just because they are overfed/overlevelled?
What is nice is watching them get to that stage. Efficiently farming and dodging ganks enough to reach that stage is a very important skill in itself. It's not exactly easy playing meepo against chain frosts + echo slams, so it means you must be doing something well.
Sure watching cutesy 2on2 plays early game with kiting meepos are fun, but that's not what wins you games in the long run.
The reason people buy poor man shield is for the blocking and because meepos early 46~ or so damage is so trash, having 6 extra damage helps quite a lot. Cheap slot efficient damage that fits well with money if someone pools you a bit of tangoes.
You can find a lot of his FPVODs on lovecoqu channel which has most of the Chinese games although the titles are in Chinese. look for "牛蛙" for niuwa and you can also find yaphets/pis FPVODs there too.
On August 17 2014 19:59 DucK- wrote: Best Meepo player since forever. If you understand mandarin, niuwa's meepo has always been a joy to watch.
He used to play a bit of dota 2 too. I remember watching a few movies of his play. I think he streamed on some site and vods got uploaded to youtube. For all I know he still does.
On August 17 2014 19:59 DucK- wrote: What's so nice about watching meepo surviving Chain Frosts + Echo Slams just because they are overfed/overlevelled?
What is nice is watching them get to that stage. Efficiently farming and dodging ganks enough to reach that stage is a very important skill in itself. It's not exactly easy playing meepo against chain frosts + echo slams, so it means you must be doing something well.
Sure watching cutesy 2on2 plays early game with kiting meepos are fun, but that's not what wins you games in the long run.
The reason people buy poor man shield is for the blocking and because meepos early 46~ or so damage is so trash, having 6 extra damage helps quite a lot. Cheap slot efficient damage that fits well with money if someone pools you a bit of tangoes.
I'm just whining about highlights of meepo players winning 1v5 6 slotted. Always found this videos boring to watch, and always expecting to see the cute stuff.
Totally different style from singsing/excalibur Meepo, in that he prefers to be interactive, rather than just farming and carrying. This video shows how calm he is several times when he almost got killed.
I kinda grew tired at videos of pro meepo players, when it basically them just blink poofing and carrying late game, or them diving fountain while 5/6 slotted. The good meepo plays are those that show players reacting and microing when in trouble, with good splits and clutch TP into return kills. What's so nice about watching meepo surviving Chain Frosts + Echo Slams just because they are overfed/overlevelled?
i don't understand mandarin but i'll be just like watching bw pro games with korean lol
Usually when i get chain frosted i panic and pray that it bounces on other targets lol
No reason to go blink first as a mid unless this reason is "for fun". You can get some lh mid (not many) and have a meepo + a support constantly stacking camps. 12 min aghanim is nothing strange if you don't die and after this blink comes in a blink (WOOOOO) of an eye.
Totally different style from singsing/excalibur Meepo, in that he prefers to be interactive, rather than just farming and carrying. This video shows how calm he is several times when he almost got killed.
I kinda grew tired at videos of pro meepo players, when it basically them just blink poofing and carrying late game, or them diving fountain while 5/6 slotted. The good meepo plays are those that show players reacting and microing when in trouble, with good splits and clutch TP into return kills. What's so nice about watching meepo surviving Chain Frosts + Echo Slams just because they are overfed/overlevelled?
i don't understand mandarin but i'll be just like watching bw pro games with korean lol
Usually when i get chain frosted i panic and pray that it bounces on other targets lol
Well I only watched this video of his recently. I'll translate some parts to show how calm and collected he was.
21:13 - "Ehh a fight is starting at top lane, I'll wait here a while...(Rhasta blink + hex, BH attacks)...ehh I'll poof each meepo 1,2,3,4, rhasta definitely wants to net me, 2nd meepo toss net, 3rd meepo too, use Dust, BH can't kill me now, net again...nvm I can just a-click him to death, main meepo blink away and TP, in this fight BH and rhasta tried to kill me, but I was nimble and escaped"
22:34 - "Ehh this is an opportunity! I'm just nearby, my teammate skeleton king is going to resurrect...poof poof poof poof poof...(blinks poofs to enemy)...i'll blink in and first kill rhasta, rhasta wants to shackle me but it's no use I still have 2 more that haven't poof in yet, all are here now i'll finish rhasta off, then i'll kill axe next, axe poses abit of a threat, i'll first move this low hp meepo away, axe is dead, this spectre still hasn't ran? i'll net him and then poof with these 4 meepos, kill the spectre now, yep i got a triple kill, BH wants to hack me, i'll move this meepo away while the rest slows him...(BH dies, main meepo TPs)...nice, i just need to move the meepo away, my other clones can slow him till 100ms, so he would never be able to catch up with that meepo"
If there's any parts you want me to translate, or any other mandarin videos, just let me know.
IMO getting Heart of Tarasque is ALWAYS waste of gold, the heal and flat hp wont transfer to the clones only the STR. Casual Reaver is always better than full HoT.
Two meepos makes me thing Targe is having a conversation with himself.
What's the item build on this guy for mid? My friend who plays meepo a lot says that fast PMS into bottle treads blink aghs is pretty good, followed by reavers and other items like skadi, hex, eblade, etc.
I'm also wondering how farm patterns work for modern mid Meepos. How do you stack camps and do you control runes, when do you farm stacked camps, when do you gank (after blink? before? what about counterganks where people are diving towers and you can tp in?) etc. VODs welcome, and of course practice is king.
On September 16 2014 16:05 Fencar wrote: Two meepos makes me thing Targe is having a conversation with himself.
What's the item build on this guy for mid? My friend who plays meepo a lot says that fast PMS into bottle treads blink aghs is pretty good, followed by reavers and other items like skadi, hex, eblade, etc.
I'm also wondering how farm patterns work for modern mid Meepos. How do you stack camps and do you control runes, when do you farm stacked camps, when do you gank (after blink? before? what about counterganks where people are diving towers and you can tp in?) etc. VODs welcome, and of course practice is king.
No you are right about that that's just targe talking to himself. Targe is a crazy guy lol
As for me. I play meepo alot but i usually prefer the hero to be in safelane than mid.
We have the same build as your friend except i build aghs over dagger first. I also skip the bottle from time to time if i am laning heroes that doesn't harass alot.
If i don't have a support who checks the runes i send my main meepo to check it.You can stack in radiant easily but i don't usually stack since i more often send one meepo into one of the lanes(as soon as i hit level 3). And wait for an opportunity to kill so i don't stack a lot.
It really depends i usually stack when my lane enemy is hard but usually meepo is a really strong midlaner once you hit level 4 you can usually kill any hero in the midlane easy(sometimes you only need level 3) but this is assuming nobody rotates from the enemy team ofc).
When i at least have 3 meepo's my main meepo always stays with the team for fights especially when i obtain blink dagger. While the rest of the meepo are farming the jungle or pushing the lane.
Disclaimer : I am not sure if i am a good meepo. I am probably terrible but that's how i do it lol
Set Poof to quickcast, it makes Blink>Poof much much much easier.
Aghs before blink is probably better, unless you're snowballing like crazy, and even then I dont know, aghs accelerates your farm a lot and you should be able to get Blink very quickly after it anyhow.
Oh really? I don't use quickcast but I can see why it might be helpful to that. Might give it a shot, normally get all finger tied over it.
Personally I can only see one circumstance where you might want Blink before Aghs. And that's if you were going for some kind of a hyper-aggressive ganking style and trying to farm off heroes rather than creeps. But I'm not sure how viable that is.
moronic question, but how do you set it to quickast? also, can anyone write some general (short one) "guide" regarding what should you be doing in the early game or so? por favor :D love meepo and played him a ton in dota 1, but i played him totally differently (and bad, trust me), but i don't "get" the meepo anymore.
for quick cast go to options then to the bit where you set your keybidings, below the keys for your skills are 3 options, CAST - AUTOCAST - QUICKCAST
just click quickcast then select which skill you want to have quick cast
you can generally kill your lane opponent at lvl 3-4 with net -> double poof -> net so just do that if they ever get too cocky whilst you yourself just keep farming up
On September 17 2014 10:28 Targe wrote: for quick cast go to options then to the bit where you set your keybidings, below the keys for your skills are 3 options, CAST - AUTOCAST - QUICKCAST
just click quickcast then select which skill you want to have quick cast
you can generally kill your lane opponent at lvl 3-4 with net -> double poof -> net so just do that if they ever get too cocky whilst you yourself just keep farming up
(thats my early game)
yah .. sometimes even a 2v1 situation you can still win(well not so much 2v1 more like 2v2 :D)
what's your skillbuild when you get level 4 ? i always go 1-2-0-1
i normally take the 3rd skill after i maxed 2nd skill.
I like one early point in Geostrike, usually at level 5, for that little bit of slow which can really help kills. Then max W, max Q and max E in that order, taking ult as it comes available. Unless I have to mid-battle skill something for a particular reason.
Thank you for the replies :D the way i used to play him was that i would keep all my meepos with me, max E and net and i would just perma slow/net opponent xD
On September 17 2014 10:28 Targe wrote: for quick cast go to options then to the bit where you set your keybidings, below the keys for your skills are 3 options, CAST - AUTOCAST - QUICKCAST
just click quickcast then select which skill you want to have quick cast
you can generally kill your lane opponent at lvl 3-4 with net -> double poof -> net so just do that if they ever get too cocky whilst you yourself just keep farming up
(thats my early game)
yah .. sometimes even a 2v1 situation you can still win(well not so much 2v1 more like 2v2 :D)
what's your skillbuild when you get level 4 ? i always go 1-2-0-1
i normally take the 3rd skill after i maxed 2nd skill.
i occasionaly get geostrike but it's mainly 1-2-0-1
Another quick question. When you get second meepo, do oyu send him to the jungle (if yes, how do you farm? just poof or?), keep him on lane or? Sry if the question is stupid, just want to know what is the right approach to playing meepo. btw, is the guide on 1st page still valid? i know he's been there quite some time.
As soon as you get the second meepo, send him to stack the hard camp. You can just use him to stack camps everywhere and then with lvl 3 or 4 in poof, easily clear them.
It depends. I usually just keep the 2nd meepo on the lane for a kill opportunity in mid and better laning.
When i see kill opportunites in the safelane or my team asks for ganks i send one meepo to that lane. Usually if i don't see any kill opportunity in the other lanes or mid is missing or i can't kill mid i send the main meepo(since i usually put PMS on the main meepo) to one of the medium camps.
When i play meepo i usually a lot than farm. So send one meepo with our supports most of the time.
You should just watch some meepo pro games(particularly C9 with sing, Fnatic with excalibur) since they play the hero better i think.
Or you could also watch the one suggested previous page. The chinese meepo player.
and also there is one currently going on J Revenge vs Mith - starseries group stages
With my 2nd meepo I stack the hard camp closest to mid lane and position to help gank mid if the opportunity arises. Allows me to leech xp mid or take over the lane while they check runes or are waiting to respawn or whatever.
I avoid stacking medium camps since they spawn mud golems.
Just a quick note elaborating on one reason why I like one point of Geostrike before the max W and Q (i.e. level 5 1-2-1-1): Meepo is one of the faster heroes in the game at 315. Only seven heroes are faster. These are LC, Naga, Pugna, CK, Druid, Skywrath and Luna.
With 1 point in Geostrike: LC, Naga and Pugna drop to 304. CK, Druid and Skywrath drop to 308.75. Luna drops to 313.5.
Hence a single point makes every other hero's base speed slower than Meepo (though its marginal for Luna). Of course that doesn't guarantee anything, but if you can get on someone early on and keep hitting them then they can't get away without some kind of help. Its a nice threat to have in the toolbox.
As far as my second Meepo goes I like to keep it in lane and look for kills. Its when I have three I tend to start spreading around and stacking and all that stuff. As with my comment above about Geostrike I feel that for me the kill threat is more potent than just stacking because Meepo can be very dangerous when he has two Meepos up.
On September 18 2014 19:14 govie wrote: Thats so smart celestial, that you calculated all that stuff and skill meepo the way you do against those hero's.
I'll admit something sometimes when i play meepo i max geostrike cause i get lazy tab-poofing sometimes in fights.
I know it's pretty stupid but i really get lazy and in some games where the enemy can't really deal with meepo well then i just max geostrike. Net someone then rightclick them to death.
Honestly thr biggest problem with not maxing poof first even at noob levels has less to do with team fights and more to do with farming. Meepo is one of the fastest farmers in the game and poof lets him be this way
how come u never teech me when i want to lrn th0r! ;_;
Actually i don't know what's best atm cuz i don't play him ;; i used to go max geostrike most of the times when i massed. If the game was hard i would go poof max first. Also it's not just me doing it, notail did it almost every game too
On September 16 2014 19:42 -Celestial- wrote: I'd always get the Aghs before blink to be honest. Aghs is just such a huge item on Meepo. Extra stats, full shared stats with other Meepos AND an extra Meepo. Then again sometimes I just skip blink because I can't do the Blink>Poof thing very well. >_>
On September 16 2014 21:17 -Celestial- wrote: Personally I can only see one circumstance where you might want Blink before Aghs. And that's if you were going for some kind of a hyper-aggressive ganking style and trying to farm off heroes rather than creeps. But I'm not sure how viable that is.
In my opinion people should go blink before Agh's if they want to get blink at all, otherwise not get blink. Blink at all should be only for the aggressive play style in my opinion, let alone blink "first".
I'd say blink-first because by the time you've farmed the 8500 gold to get blink and agh's (and boots and misc stuff like bottle or Basilius or PMS or tangos), you'd likely already have a major advantage or disadvantage, and blink so late probably wouldn't change that very much.
Personally I'm just not a fan of blink. As someone who thinks they have decent netting ability, I feel like blink is less useful on Meepo than other heroes, since it can't be used to retreat like it can on other heroes. In addition, it halves the poof damage, which especially sucks if you're using BoT or tranquil (it means you need to rely more on attack damage).
In my opinion if one is to get blink they should consider getting phase boots and maybe even drum or Vlad's before Agh's (Although I'm not a fan something like drum before Agh's, nor Vlad's at all)
In fact, I'd say a nearly Agh-less build could be viable for blink builds, since an [agressive] blink Meepo should be gaining more experience and hence more tankiness and stats faster than a blinkless one, and doesn't need the durability as much considering the nature of attack (ambush gank).
On September 17 2014 15:28 goody153 wrote: what's your skillbuild when you get level 4 ? i always go 1-2-0-1 i normally take the 3rd skill after i maxed 2nd skill.
Everyone should go 1-2-0-1. The question is more-so what to get first at level 1-2, and/or afterwards at 5-7.
Personally I've been in the habit of going poof, nothing (poof), ult, although more common is poof, net, ult. Rarely I'll encounter allies going for a very early kill in which case the lack of net sucks, but it's quite uncommon. Ideally you should make the decision based on who you're laned with and if they plan to be aggressive that early.
The extra poof damage is helpful if you want to finish off multiple low-health creeps at once (obviously) or to punish a melee opponent trying to last hit or deny. You don't get the extra poof damage until level 3, but it's still 1 level faster than otherwise.
The amount of solokill and chasing power you get from a blink is completely invaluable imo, having to net from max range and then run up to your opponent for a full unhalved poof combo sounds very unreliable versus competent players. Maybe if you have a Centaur on your team and your opponents have 0 escapes, skipping blink might be less bad though, but that's a relatively fringe scenario.
And on the order of aghs and blink: While aghs first is probably more stable, I think blink first is quite viable on mid Meepo in certain games. Let's say your opponents have weak earlygame and you're off to a good start, you can definitely snowball quite hard with just upgraded boots + blink.
How could you ever not get blink. When you get Blink Bots Hex no single hero can walk into a lane solo without dying 5s later, which gives your team such a massive advantage. The instant hidden burst in fights, especially on glass cannon heroes (tinker/sniper etc) also gives so much value. Meepo buyback is ultra strong, one of the reasons is you get that instant unsuspecting burst twice due to blink. Playing Meepo without Blink would feel like my arms are cut off.
Aghs accelerates your farm so much Blink needs to pay off by getting a lot of kills, since Aghs -> Blink comes extremely quickly, but Blink->Aghs will stall badly if you can't snowball ultra hard. Doesn't mean it won't work, but riskier. Blink first is definitely good on support Meepo's whose teams require acres of farm. In that situation you need to make plays/create space instead of fighting over farm with 3 other heroes.
That game looked like a ~3000 mmr pub game... No, I am serious. W33 played great, obviously, but all I am seeing is bunch of enemy walking toward Meepo and feed him. Especially Furion few times, just walking towards him and die, then QoP coming to cast scream, dagger and dies 2 seconds later for 20 times in a row...
Then they knew he had blink, yet again all of them were on like 1000-1500 range from him(alone), like they don't know that he will blink and kill them in 2 seconds.
On September 21 2014 19:12 Ramiz1989 wrote: That game looked like a ~3000 mmr pub game... No, I am serious. W33 played great, obviously, but all I am seeing is bunch of enemy walking toward Meepo and feed him. Especially Furion few times, just walking towards him and die, then QoP coming to cast scream, dagger and dies 2 seconds later for 20 times in a row...
Then they knew he had blink, yet again all of them were on like 1000-1500 range from him(alone), like they don't know that he will blink and kill them in 2 seconds.
Solid Meepo performance, very unimpressive game.
Hey, if you think about it, his allies were probably 4k mmr and he was playing against 4.7ks
yeah it should be unimpressive considering that it's just highlights of a game .. we don't see all the farming pattern and other meepo stuff aside from him getting kills
On September 21 2014 19:12 Ramiz1989 wrote: That game looked like a ~3000 mmr pub game... No, I am serious. W33 played great, obviously, but all I am seeing is bunch of enemy walking toward Meepo and feed him. Especially Furion few times, just walking towards him and die, then QoP coming to cast scream, dagger and dies 2 seconds later for 20 times in a row...
Then they knew he had blink, yet again all of them were on like 1000-1500 range from him(alone), like they don't know that he will blink and kill them in 2 seconds.
Solid Meepo performance, very unimpressive game.
Hey, if you think about it, his allies were probably 4k mmr and he was playing against 4.7ks
I don't really understand why you wouldn't go blink and hex every game. Not only do you have insane burst damage midgame with blink, you also end up with an instant disable lategame.
The idea that nets from fog is as good as a blink dagger is just laughable, even if you get half the poof damage because you only poof in. Good people wont let you do that over and over. You also lose the "storm spirit" aspect of having an aegis on meepo where you can just go straight in and pick people off.
Personally I prefer to play ultra greedy by staying lane + stacking til 7, then just transition into jungle and hide there/split push til I get dagger + aghanim before I really start fighting. It's just a crazy powercurve before/after obtaining those two items.
The most common way players play meepo now is to efficiently farm via double stacking neutrals and getting their Agha up, while also occasionally participating in ganks. After agha + blink is gotten, you start killing heroes while still farming with clones. Its hard to escape from meepo unless you have a Bkb or if you are grouped up.
I personally dislike this heavy farm approach because I find it boring. I like to participate heavily, roaming with 1 clone while the other gets exp. Of course I farm in between, but I prioritise blink dagger first. That's just my play style. I'm against any efficient farm heavy styles, that's why I think naga/tb split push builds are anti fun albeit powerful and I'd never play that way
I have no idea why you would want to build Crimson Guard on Meepo. If the opposing team picked a hard counter for your Meepo just buy a Sheepstick and blow them up before they can do anything.
Yeah Crimson Guard seems pretty shitty on Meepo. Gives no stat so your clones dont benefit from anything outside of the active. It can be good good if someone else in your team gets it but I dont think you should ever get it yourself though.
I think crimson gaurd is a nice counteritem against minion pushstrats, not core on any hero accept maybe axe because the damageblock has some synergy with the call.
A crimson gaurd against a meepo sounds alot better.
On September 27 2014 17:55 Pholon wrote: Pretty excited about Crimson Guard helping to deal with Ember/Sven/Kunkka/Tiny/AM :D
I don't see how Crimson helps to deal with ember blowing you up with bunch of ~400 and upwards cleaves, sven K.O.ing you with 400 hits (see similar for kunkka, tiny and am if you means cleave as a threat).
For dealing with cleave, one can only hex and blademail (hoping that they don't attack the main Meepo).
On that topic though, in my opinion cleave should be changed to splash damage — except maybe Kunkka's Tidebringer, since that's a special ability that somewhat acts like a active skill. It seems pretty lame that one can get huge damage [per second] like that that is undefendable against (bypass both armor and magic resist). Sure there's some pure damage skills, but they are rare and don't deal much overall DPS.
Talking about 6.82 changes with Meepo. In a sense there aren't any direct balance changes, but there are some interesting indirect changes (well only one that's actually interesting):
1. TP scrolls are cheaper making fast/rushed travels less economical (reduced cooldown is rather irrelevant) 2. Blink dagger is more (won't really change anything) 3. Meepo clones can't receive tangos 4. RoP increases in cost by 25, making Basillius increase in cost, making it more annoying to purchase Basillius and a salve/tango as a starting item now (have to wait a while then courier the mask over if in mid lane or if unable to get to the side shop) 5. *(most important)* bounty system changes make games longer, and counteract snowballing.
The only particularly relevant one is #5. This has seemingly had unpredictable/counter-intuitive effects on Meepo. Based off current 6.82 stats, aside from overall gaining a very slight average in win-rate, perhaps more importantly, the gap between normal and very high win rate has decreased. In the past, Meepo had the largest negative gap of win rate between very high and normal skill — which is also counter-intuitive at first glance. Now, while all the counter heroes counter him just as well as before, it appears that VH skill games somehow can't counter him as well.
Personally I consider this quite perplexing; I guess one could logically conclude that it prevents counter heroes in VH skill games from snowballing as much against Meeps. That said, it isn't a sufficient explanation in my eye because Meepo has been a hero who's win rate has been very reliant on short match duration— much more-so than any other hero save Drow. I didn't realize that until recently, and perhaps the stats aren't the most reliable (insufficient samples or something, not to mention very few legit games are under 20 minutes), but it doesn't seem implausible. http://dotateam.me/time-data/
One would think that a large increase in average game length —and presumably even larger increase in bottom-quartile game duration— would be detrimental, but perhaps the bounty is more relevant.
I feel the whole " must snowball, win under 30 minutes" type of meepo has been wrong for a while now. It used to be more true before the "aghanim giving copies stats"-change and when meepos went mek/vlads.
Now you're pretty strong all game through, you will still tank a shitload of damage, you can splitpush pretty strong, you can always pick off heroes with blink hex, and you can even fight through backdoor protection lategame while being ready to fight in the base if needed.
Meepo is currently super strong and I can fully understand people who uses the hero to climb ratings. It's usually my go to hero when I want to win.
Like the game I just played. They last picked ember, he farmed battlefuries. I got ganked a whole lot of times that required both black hole and doom.
End result is that even thought I die over and over, all my teammates get left alone, because it required so much to kill me, and they end up starved on the rest of the map.
Meepo doesn't really start to fall off until like 50+ minutes though really. He falls off when he gets xp-capped the opposing team starts to catch back up but it's not like he falls off a cliff it's gradual. IMO they should make it so that Meepo doesn't steal the lion's share of his team's xp in team fights after he hits max level or something.
On October 11 2014 10:53 Skyro wrote: Meepo doesn't really start to fall off until like 50+ minutes though really. He falls off when he gets xp-capped the opposing team starts to catch back up but it's not like he falls off a cliff it's gradual. IMO they should make it so that Meepo doesn't steal the lion's share of his team's xp in team fights after he hits max level or something.
they shouldn't buff meepo right now, he's already fine. probably too strong in pubs.
I've played against a ton of meepos lately, usually around 5k-5.5k mmr. I have a sneaking suspicion the popularity of the meepo scripts helps some of these players, as their mechanics on other heroes are pretty suspect...
On October 11 2014 10:53 Skyro wrote: Meepo doesn't really start to fall off until like 50+ minutes though really. He falls off when he gets xp-capped the opposing team starts to catch back up but it's not like he falls off a cliff it's gradual. IMO they should make it so that Meepo doesn't steal the lion's share of his team's xp in team fights after he hits max level or something.
Basically, the bonus XP for nearby hero kills should only count him as a single hero for the number of assisting heroes regardless of how many Meepos are in range. The natural XP for a hero kill gets split properly, but when calculating the bonus assist XP it shouldn't count Meepo clones as extra heroes. Which means he ends up getting significantly more XP than he should for any kill, and your teammates can get significantly less if the kill doesn't involve all 5 heroes.
It should be noted that this bug makes the comeback XP change in 6.82 an incredible buff to Meepo in scenarios where his team is behind on XP, because he is getting the comeback factor multiplied many times over (particularly in solo-kills, he could end up with insanely more XP than he should).
On October 11 2014 15:01 TheYango wrote: It should be noted that this bug makes the comeback XP change in 6.82 an incredible buff to Meepo in scenarios where his team is behind on XP, because he is getting the comeback factor multiplied many times over (particularly in solo-kills, he could end up with insanely more XP than he should).
Ahhh, so that would explain it. Is this entirely confirmed for the new update? I recall hearing about this phenomenon with Meepo, but I would have thought it was fixed or something (that post was 2 years ago). Also, I don't think/didn't think/didn't know Meepo clones gain assist gold or exp if they get a kill though? I never looked into that mechanic. Something tells me when Valve figures this out they will totally change it.
Personally, I just really wish that Meepo didn't steal exp from the team at all (more than as a single hero). Some would say that that would be a nerf to Meepo, but not in my opinion, since it makes for a more balanced team, and allows allies to level more once Meepo is capped as well. In my opinion Meepo had the exp-sharing mechanic he had in DotA 1 because of engine/coding limitations or something, which probably wouldn't be applicable in DotA 2.
On October 11 2014 16:50 Targe wrote: meepo needs to be nerfed not buffed
I'd be in favor of a major nerf if they changed/fixed cleave so that it somehow doesn't bypass armor and magic resist (such as Battle fury giving 50% splash). Especially with what seems to be an attempt at making the damage system simpler in 6.82, it's really unintuitive that cleave is essentially pure damage. This would put Meepo more on par with other heroes in counterability and with a nerf make him less powerful when not significantly hindered.
On February 02 2015 01:02 Erasme wrote: aghs first or bot/blink or blink/bot ? I think aghs first is worse than the other two
Threads into aghs first .. it increases your farming speed that getting blink dagger would be really fast as well so it won't be a problem
Getting blink first means you wanted to fight/gank early on .. however if it doesn't pay off you are delayed heavily rather than the aghs pickup .. one of the problems of dagger first is that you are fighting with lower levels and farm. One of the strengths of meepo is that since you can farm naga-level fast you should be able to have more farm than most of the other team that you can roll them rather easily. With the dagger first purchase you slow down your farm which makes you likely to lose in the fights. If you are playing support maybe you could but aghs first is always preferred.
You don't need BoTs first since you don't have enough space to farm on lanes. Unless you are running some kind of tuskar+meepo with the help of beastmaster hawk or lycan wolf draft where you snipe people with superior vision and BoT'ing on the summons. There is no point on prioritizing this over aghs since aghs accelerates your farm better and allows you to actually fight better with the extra meepo. (Just do smart tp'ing or do what midgame morph does keep an replicate with the team in these case keep another meepo with supports while other meepos farm)
Treads into Aghs first if you are farming Meepo, then proceed with Blink and Bot after. If you play support Meepo, Blink first into Aghs works I guess, but I haven't seen support Meepo for quite some time so I don't know if they are getting anything else before Blink(like Treads, Aquila or some other early game stuff). Orb of Venom is very useful, depending on what you are doing through the game.
In my experience, blink first is much weaker. You are probably going to get it before lvl 10, and you can't really do anything by blinking in only one meepo. Aghs first lets you farm much faster, you get the blink only a couple of minutes later. With blink first, farming the scepter takes much longer than the other way around.
can you generate kills by blinking and chaining your nets so your team has initiation? then its not much weaker bc you're farming heroes.
it all depends on the game and the tempo that you're required to set. in a game where you can afford to be passive, sure aghs is the better farming item.
Hey meepo friends, I'm trying to practice my shovelling. I feel pretty comfortable farming / laning mid or safe, but does anyone know strong item timings for this hero?
I am fond of bottle/treads/blink/Ags -> sheep / skaadi / heart
Generally I find I can get treads bottle blink by 10 mins, aghs around 16. The blink timing coincides pretty perfectly with lv 10.
I like blink first because right now I am playing this strictly in party queue and you gotta party hard.
Do most meepo players rely on smartcast? I think I should practice it.
Also, my blink poofs go to shit with my fifth meepo. Occasionally (25% maybe?) I only poof in 3 and the fourth fucks off. Is this just practice or is there something in doing wrong?
Don't do blink first unless you are playing support. Aghs is just so much better and it accelerates your farm.
I don't smartcast some meepo players here said that it's easier with smartcast but i'm used tabbing with wc3. And i don't like the feeling of being only be able to play meepo with smartcast.
Also, my blink poofs go to shit with my fifth meepo. Occasionally (25% maybe?) I only poof in 3 and the fourth fucks off. Is this just practice or is there something in doing wrong?
Make it a habit to switch between meepos really fast and spam it.
i wouldn't say that support meepo is the only time you want blink 1st. you need to take into account what your team looks like bc sometimes picking up blink first gives your team a gigantic initiation advantage early in the game. that way you AND your team gain advantages.
quick cast with tabbing is how many meepo players mass poof. it removes a button press and overall makes combos such as blink poofing that much faster.
Although i do not have 400 games of meepo so disclaimer but in my experience going there is almost no reason to go blink first unless you are super ahead in levels and your team is owning hard.
Aghs is just better since if you brought blink first you have to capitalize on aggression(killing heroes) in order for it to pay off and if you don't get kills with the blink you are pretty much behind. While going aghs will accelerate your farm and + meepo pretty much improves the fighting capacity of meepo and you don't rely on successful aggression since you can farm.
Besides after you get aghs farming the dagger isn't really a problem anyways you usually get it a couple of minutes after.
I just read that meepo can poof to meepo illusions too (i.e. morphling), maybe in a 4p1 strat with this seemingly small parameter of poof could have a high gamechanging effect. food for thought.
The support meepo could be really nice i think, to bad we havent seen BigD experiment with it some more. I.e. net disables sb charge of darkness, phaseshift puck, antimage blink or qop blink (all four frequently picked hero's in this meta). Maybe a AA+meepo/tusk supportcombo could be something, but i would not know because i dont encounter many descent meepoplayers at my mmr.
Problem with Blink is it's very all-in. If you don't get something done with Blink you delay the rest of your items by a significant amount of time. I used to buy Blink first a lot due to the way my hotkeys were set up (1-main meepo 2-secondthird meepo) and the timing it had with level 10 but it's just so easy to get blown up and your farm isn't where it should be. It feels so much more consistent to treat Meepo like an AM where you hit a timing for Aghs->Blink like BF->Manta and THEN you can decide how to progress. BoT's for map control + getting to 6 slots the quickest, Scythe for ganks, Skadi/Heart for immediate 5man.
I noticed dotabuff shows hero win rate for laning now which is interesting. It might not be causation, but I find the results really interesting with regards to the off lane. Namely that Meepo has the highest win rate from laning off lane. This is quite well known to be a bad lane for Meepo to be in, and it reflects in his stats where he has the lowest KDA, EPM, and GPM in that lane. Despite that, he still has a significant win rate increase in that lane which I find bizzare. http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meepo
I'm also curious how in the world how Meepo's win-rate in all of the lanes could be above 50% when his actual win-rate is only 45-46%. I suppose sometimes it doesn't categorize a hero's lane position? The jungling doesn't explain things because it says that it's only a 6% prevalence which wouldn't change anything. It would be helpful to know what percentage of games it doesn't know the lane position, since it seems like that's a major cause for Meepo losing.
All those numbers add up to 98.74, so is it possible that only 1.7% of games aren't positioned? I would doubt it This phenomenon seems to exist for nearly all the heroes. A major change in win rate (either higher or lower) in all the lanes compared to their average and/or wonky/unintuitive win rates for their common/uncommon lanes.
On March 29 2015 20:34 ahw wrote:Do most meepo players rely on smartcast? I think I should practice it.
On March 29 2015 23:06 goody153 wrote: I don't smartcast some meepo players here said that it's easier with smartcast but i'm used tabbing with wc3. And i don't like the feeling of being only be able to play meepo with smartcast.
I presume both of you mean quick-cast? Smart cast isn't a proper term in DotA 2. Smart cast oftentimes refers to literally smart casting of skills automatically by the game's targetting system. In WC3 this meant both that casting net with multiple meepos selected makes only one Meepo launch a net, as well as the fact that the caster will always be the closest Meepo to the target that has the skill available. DOTA 2 has neither of those things.
With regards to tabbing in WC3, I assume you mean you mean regular WC3 rather than DotA 1? since it wasn't really necessary to tab in DotA 1 except for someone like Chen or Brewmaster.
It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
You could build it pretty early on safelane, helping tremendously with pushing and winning teamfights. The buildup is pretty comfortable, with arcanes providing mana for farming and headdress helping with laning.
After Greaves you have the option of going for a Blink Dagger or Aghs depending on the situation.
On May 07 2015 18:25 village_idiot wrote: Any thoughts on Guardian Greaves on Meepo?
It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
You could build it pretty early on safelane, helping tremendously with pushing and winning teamfights. The buildup is pretty comfortable, with arcanes providing mana for farming and headdress helping with laning.
After Greaves you have the option of going for a Blink Dagger or Aghs depending on the situation.
No. Greaves is a waste of money on pretty much every hero.
On May 07 2015 18:25 village_idiot wrote: It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
Just FYI, Meepo clones can't use the active on Guardian Greaves. This is a carry-over from Arcane Boots, which Meepo clones also cannot use multiples of.
It makes Greaves very hard to justify relative to other boots that give full benefit to Meepo clones. It's also why Arcane Boots Meepo is not a thing (there are definitely teamcomps that could take advantage of Arcanes Meepo if clones could use the active).
The useful things from guardian greaves are already given from mekansm. But I don't see a reason ever to get the arcane boots part, they add nothing useful. Mekansm is an all right item for meepo tho, altho I personally very seldom go it.
So I really love this hero. Beyond playing him a bunch, I try to watch first-person VODs of avid meepo'rs: Notail, Excalibur, Ink, Weeha
A few observations (most of which have already been noted):
*Agh's is by far the most common first item (after treads). Improved stat-sharing and an extra clone are just too good to pass up. If you're doing well, you tend to get it around the time - or slightly after - you get your 3rd clone. This is a HUGE power spike. A group of 2 clones can flash farm a lane or the jungle
*A slick move I've seen used is to delay your clone till lvl 4, then skill it right when you get on top of the enemy for surprise burst. (Doing this at lvl 3 is also good, the extra lvl in poof is a lot of dmg tho, so take note of your opponents' HP
*Treads is too much DMG to pass up on this hero. That said, I've also seen tranquils (mostly support Meepo), BoTs first (Notail when far behind), and Phase (Koreans...never tried it myself, but I could see it being nice for snowballing)
*Try to use your first clone to stack the jungle when you can. I'll even double-stack with both clones if I'm having a really hard time.
*Treads -> Aghs -> Blink -> Sheep seems to be the most common item progression. Personally, I really like getting a Vlad's inbetween Blink and Sheep. Ideally, you'd want someone else to pick it up - but this can't be assured in pubs. And the damage + survivability you get from this item, for the cost, are unparalleled. (You can also now solo rosh with 4 clones). If I'm not doing as well as I'd like, and/or we're getting five-man'd before I have blink, I'll sometimes get early Vlads, before blink.
*Lategame, Skadi seems to be the pickup of choice, because of the stats it gives you. Ethereal blade is also good, not only because of the extra right click, but because you can potentially save a clone that's getting jumped.
*BoTs pretty broken on this hero :D
*It's all about the nets. Most meepos know how to itemize and blink poof. But landing those slow-ass nets, with their glacial cast animation and travel speed, can be difficult. Good nets make the difference between living/dying, kill secured/narrow escape
- One more thing: Leveling Net, vs leveling Geostrike (Always max poof). My general heuristic is this: Are we winning, or losing? If we're winning I'm more likely to be chasing and/or securing kills...so I level net. If we're losing, the enemy is more likely to be coming right for us, so I'll level geostrike for the dmg and move slow. There are other considerations that are dependent on both team compositions, but the general flow of the game is the first thing I consider.
*It's all about the nets. Most meepos know how to itemize and blink poof. But landing those slow-ass nets, with their glacial cast animation and travel speed, can be difficult. Good nets make the difference between living/dying, kill secured/narrow escape
In dota 1 landing nets is easier compared to doto 2
So what starting items do you get on this hero? I've tried out tango salve stout slipper for a PMS rush because I get 6 damage for cs and much improved damage block in contested lanes (90% of the time) but at the same time rop stout tango branch start into basi could be good...? idk.
depends on the lane .. whenever i'm mid i can get away with just quelling + rop/stout + tango then rush bottle
whenever i have harder time last hitting or the the lane i'm facing has good animation and high right click i usually buy quelling early on and try to lower the creep hp of all and poof them at ones
basilius is not needed on the hero .. but aquilla is nice and i buy it on most heroes lol
On May 07 2015 18:25 village_idiot wrote: Any thoughts on Guardian Greaves on Meepo?
It gives Meepo clones +5 all stats, mana and armor even without Aghs. After Aghs it even doubles the stats on clones. A very useful active and passive.
You could build it pretty early on safelane, helping tremendously with pushing and winning teamfights. The buildup is pretty comfortable, with arcanes providing mana for farming and headdress helping with laning.
After Greaves you have the option of going for a Blink Dagger or Aghs depending on the situation.
No. Greaves is a waste of money on pretty much every hero.
I'm not sure we should discount it too fast. I've played around with it a little and while I don't have it all figured out I feel like there's some promise. I am no meepo expert, to be sure, but aghs first seems like a very late game move. Frankly, aghs doesn't help your secondary meepos much at all if you go it first item--you're kinda paying 4.2k for another weak meepo. If you go blink right after, that doesn't give any tank either so you're going to have weak meepos for a very long time.
Makes sense if you're just going to farm but if you have to fight, would mek-blink-greaves work better?
I can see two cases where it could make sense: 1. Push strats or when you have a need to fight early - obviously very popular atm. Greaves won't be up for early pushes but the mek will be and is obviously a key contribution. Having an early mek means less meepos but it makes you more able to front-line early without being nuke-bait. 2. If the opposition is very heavy on bursty physical damage or armor reduction (ta, pa, ursa, slar, clinkz) and meepo prime might not get there in time to save the day when a secondary meepo gets ganked. That emergency armor effect is a pretty big deal, as is the base armor aura. The aura also makes the meepos completely self-reliant so they don't have to go back to base--less of an issue for meepo than other heros but still a nice perk.
Unfortunately bots take priority over greaves so you can't have the aura on remote meepos while caring both. I could see them being pretty strong if it was the other way around and you could just drop the greaves when you needed to tp a meepo.
I dunno if you've ever actually rushed an aghs on Meepo before but a 12-15 minute Aghs = a relatively huge extra meepo. I don't even know how to discuss this if your premise is that Aghs rush is weak in any way. It is literally the best way to tank up Meepo due to the stats.
the only non stats item you can justify besides blink/sheep/bots is vlads because you can apply for a rosh subsidy right after
aghs shud be like the first major item u get on meepo lol, it increases your dmg output, your farming speed, and just makes u and ur clones better in every way
ive been struggling a lot coz my brown key keyboard is so fucking clunky i keep screwing up the buttons and not blinking etc. you really need to slam the keys hard or some wont go off and it just makes it super hard to do fast without mistake.
its also pretty hard to land the quickcast net after a quickcast blink combo but thatll probably come with practice
just throwing this out there if anyone wants to comment on the setup
im playing unranked out of courtesy but unranked low mmr is like worse than low prio . they are so bm and so shit, im just gonna mute every team member from now on otherwise i'll end up playing ranked :/
Aghanim first means blink comes in 3 min. I really cannot see how this is bad in any way. Sure, blink first can be good some games but aghanim first is the standard for very good reasons.
bloodstone as a later pickup say around... lvl 20? I feel meepo's greatest weakness is the long ass respawn time as a consequence of his absurdly high levels.
What would you think? It's basically a 5k semi aegis, and none of the stats it grants are useful at all (lul) so I'd pick it up as a 5th, 6th item. Agh/Blink/Heart(Skadi)/Ethblade first I suppose.
is bloodstone really a good pickup for meepo ? like usually if you're meepo at a certain timing you'd just roll everybody into a victory.
If you reached to the point where you think you may die from the dieback later and need to respawn immediately i think you won't be able to close the game as meepo anyways if you reached that point.
The items are normally Aghs/blink/sheepstick/reaver(heart or skadi)/manta are the normal buildup
Hex is absolutely mandatory on Meepo against nearly all lineups. With aghs blink hex bots you control the entire map so effectively - that's your timing to win. Skadi Eblade Manta are all good as final items - pick 2 of 3 depending on enemy heroes.
Heart doesn't make sense on meepo because only the main one gets hp regen and agi is actually really important because oftentimes you only have a couple seconds of uninterrupted smacking to do as much damage as you can before you inevitably die. Bloodstone is like trying to stop a massive wound with a bandaid. Meepo's 5v5 lategame is so bad now relative to the farm he eats up that you just need to win the game before that or invest everything in split push to start fights on your own terms.
^ Exactly that. I typically go Skadi after Hex & BoTs are complete.
I've also considered - but have not tried - a glimmer cape, and using it like a poor man's e-blade to save a clone that is being targeted.
Edit: Worthy mentions: Assault cuirass, Vlads (The aura dmg boost alone is HUGE). Ideally someone else on your team can get these, but if they don't they're also very good on the Meeps
Sure, not all Meepos gain all the benefits of Heart, but after paying 3200 for 25 str, the remaining 2200 gold buys 15 more str in a single item slot. It's not as efficient hp/gold as a sange, but after Aghs Blink Bots Meepo has no lack for gold, and slot efficiency matters. The "wasted" 300 hp on main Meepo isn't bad since the first Meepo is the one that has to Blink in first and could take initial damage.
Skadi is a nice end-game slot, but offers much less in one stat category than Heart or Bfly or Eblade, depending on which makes most sense. If you swear by the Hex, that leaves you with two remaining 6slots if you assume Blink remains necessary even with the hex. I like dumping gold into quick stat-slots with 2 S/Ys, then replace one with a Heart and the other with a Bfly or Eblade (not necessarily in that order).
Bfly or Eblade provide much more bang for buck on Meepo, since in addition to being an AGL hero, he gets 5x the dps increase. So AC/Vlads are wasted slots on him.
Zero reason to get butterfly on meepo, when skadi provides just 5 less agi but with 25 strength. Evasion and attack speed is useless because your clones don't get them.
On July 09 2015 10:30 Nightmarjoo wrote: Sure, not all Meepos gain all the benefits of Heart, but after paying 3200 for 25 str, the remaining 2200 gold buys 15 more str in a single item slot. It's not as efficient hp/gold as a sange, but after Aghs Blink Bots Meepo has no lack for gold, and slot efficiency matters. The "wasted" 300 hp on main Meepo isn't bad since the first Meepo is the one that has to Blink in first and could take initial damage.
Skadi is a nice end-game slot, but offers much less in one stat category than Heart or Bfly or Eblade, depending on which makes most sense. If you swear by the Hex, that leaves you with two remaining 6slots if you assume Blink remains necessary even with the hex. I like dumping gold into quick stat-slots with 2 S/Ys, then replace one with a Heart and the other with a Bfly or Eblade (not necessarily in that order).
Bfly or Eblade provide much more bang for buck on Meepo, since in addition to being an AGL hero, he gets 5x the dps increase. So AC/Vlads are wasted slots on him.
Not sure if you realize that it is better to have 2 slots filled with 2 Skadis than with Butterfly and Heart. The only thing clones are getting are stats, so if you are not using some items with active ability that can make a difference like Eblade or Hex, then you end up with 50 to all stats with 2 Skadis, against 40 strength and 30 agility. The bonus that you are getting on your main Meepo is quite irrelevant.
I would somewhat understand if you want huge HP boost for all clones so you went for 2 Hearts, or if you wanted a lot of agi so you could go for 2 Eblades, but going Heart + Butterfly really doesn't make much sense.
On July 09 2015 10:30 Nightmarjoo wrote: Sure, not all Meepos gain all the benefits of Heart, but after paying 3200 for 25 str, the remaining 2200 gold buys 15 more str in a single item slot. It's not as efficient hp/gold as a sange, but after Aghs Blink Bots Meepo has no lack for gold, and slot efficiency matters. The "wasted" 300 hp on main Meepo isn't bad since the first Meepo is the one that has to Blink in first and could take initial damage.
Skadi is a nice end-game slot, but offers much less in one stat category than Heart or Bfly or Eblade, depending on which makes most sense. If you swear by the Hex, that leaves you with two remaining 6slots if you assume Blink remains necessary even with the hex. I like dumping gold into quick stat-slots with 2 S/Ys, then replace one with a Heart and the other with a Bfly or Eblade (not necessarily in that order).
Bfly or Eblade provide much more bang for buck on Meepo, since in addition to being an AGL hero, he gets 5x the dps increase. So AC/Vlads are wasted slots on him.
Not sure if you realize that it is better to have 2 slots filled with 2 Skadis than with Butterfly and Heart. The only thing clones are getting are stats, so if you are not using some items with active ability that can make a difference like Eblade or Hex, then you end up with 50 to all stats with 2 Skadis, against 40 strength and 30 agility. The bonus that you are getting on your main Meepo is quite irrelevant.
I would somewhat understand if you want huge HP boost for all clones so you went for 2 Hearts, or if you wanted a lot of agi so you could go for 2 Eblades, but going Heart + Butterfly really doesn't make much sense.
Butterfly itself makes no sense. So it's a matter of how much you value the eblade active. Otherwise, its either 2 skadi, 2 heart, or 2 eblades. I think 2 skadi is the best.
EBlade is very good at killing linken heroes with escape abilities because, obviously, you blink in, pop the shield with eb and hex the target. It's also very stats heavy. If you need a linken pop you better go eb skadi. If not either skadi manta or skadi skadi.
1. Why are Asians bad vs Meepo? 2. 6th Slot - 2nd Skadi or Manta or DIFFUSAL (wow)? 3. Is there a point in balance theorycrafting a hero that only 1% of the competitive players play and provide data for?
On November 20 2015 05:13 hariooo wrote: Relevant topic is now relevant.
1. Why are Asians bad vs Meepo? 2. 6th Slot - 2nd Skadi or Manta or DIFFUSAL (wow)? 3. Is there a point in balance theorycrafting a hero that only 1% of the competitive players play and provide data for?
1. The Chinese generally are stubborn and inflexible in their play style and approach to the game. Meepo is a hero that is very very different from their traditional picks. So they probably do not want to practise the hero at all. Add that not every player has the ability to play a meepo. Some just can't handle multiple units.
I don't really think that Chinese are bad against meepo. It is more like because of their approach to the game, they don't expect a meepo pick to appear (unless against certain players like w33). It simply doesn't register as a pick to be wary of. Hence when the meepo pick comes, they are totally unprepared and outdrafted, and hence they look 'bad'.
2. Bot blink agha hex skadi eblade.
3. I'd say they should only change when you can skill your ulti.
2. (disclaimer: I'm bad at dota but meepo is my 2nd most played) Yeah eblade is the default, better rightclick and blink > eblade > poof wrecks faces, though a 2nd skadi can help if you're having survivability troubles vs magic damage.
Manta probably has uses in games where you have to rat really hard to win, but I never really was in a situations where I would have built it, and it's way harder to use to its full potential than the other alternatives. Though there are certainly a shitload of really fun next level plays that you can make with the poof to illus.
3. It's has such a ridiculously high skillfloor at pro level that only two people bother playing him and have good results. It's such a niche hero it would be stupid to nerf him because 90% of the pro teams wont bother learning how to play with or against him. I mean it's their fucking job to win at dota. It's in a kinda similar situation as techies at TI5 on a pro-level perspective, except it's mechanically wayyyyyyyyyy harder to play, easier to counter, and it doesn't ruin pubs like techies did.
Aka. he's perfectly fine, a super niche surprise pick, with a super high skill cap but still powerful enough to win games when the player masters him near perfectly. If that's not some kind of game designer wet dream i dunno what is.
If all the pro teams decide that he's op and they all start playing him, yeah go ahead and nerf him but whiles theres only w33ha and notail who play him he's fine in my book.
On November 20 2015 05:13 hariooo wrote: Relevant topic is now relevant.
1. Why are Asians bad vs Meepo? 2. 6th Slot - 2nd Skadi or Manta or DIFFUSAL (wow)? 3. Is there a point in balance theorycrafting a hero that only 1% of the competitive players play and provide data for?
1. The Chinese generally are stubborn and inflexible in their play style and approach to the game. Meepo is a hero that is very very different from their traditional picks. So they probably do not want to practise the hero at all. Add that not every player has the ability to play a meepo. Some just can't handle multiple units.
I don't really think that Chinese are bad against meepo. It is more like because of their approach to the game, they don't expect a meepo pick to appear (unless against certain players like w33). It simply doesn't register as a pick to be wary of. Hence when the meepo pick comes, they are totally unprepared and outdrafted, and hence they look 'bad'.
2. Bot blink agha hex skadi eblade.
3. I'd say they should only change when you can skill your ulti.
i feel like vs some of the meta heroes this patch, bots first may be slightly greedy. and if you're going bot blink THEN agha, you have like no hp and are just asking to have your shit pushed in which further makes me think that the build is greedy. fairly positive there are only a few situations where going blink THEN agha is better unless something in the current patch has changed.
i know in the past ive said that blink first CAN work, but i dont think its meant to be an every game kinda thing. its meant to be something you get bc you know you can do work with it and even still..im not sure its worth picking up first anyway bc you can farm it quickly once you get your agha up and running.
On November 20 2015 05:13 hariooo wrote: Relevant topic is now relevant.
1. Why are Asians bad vs Meepo? 2. 6th Slot - 2nd Skadi or Manta or DIFFUSAL (wow)? 3. Is there a point in balance theorycrafting a hero that only 1% of the competitive players play and provide data for?
1. The Chinese generally are stubborn and inflexible in their play style and approach to the game. Meepo is a hero that is very very different from their traditional picks. So they probably do not want to practise the hero at all. Add that not every player has the ability to play a meepo. Some just can't handle multiple units.
I don't really think that Chinese are bad against meepo. It is more like because of their approach to the game, they don't expect a meepo pick to appear (unless against certain players like w33). It simply doesn't register as a pick to be wary of. Hence when the meepo pick comes, they are totally unprepared and outdrafted, and hence they look 'bad'.
2. Bot blink agha hex skadi eblade.
3. I'd say they should only change when you can skill your ulti.
i feel like vs some of the meta heroes this patch, bots first may be slightly greedy. and if you're going bot blink THEN agha, you have like no hp and are just asking to have your shit pushed in which further makes me think that the build is greedy. fairly positive there are only a few situations where going blink THEN agha is better unless something in the current patch has changed.
i know in the past ive said that blink first CAN work, but i dont think its meant to be an every game kinda thing. its meant to be something you get bc you know you can do work with it and even still..im not sure its worth picking up first anyway bc you can farm it quickly once you get your agha up and running.
I wasn't saying that as an item order. Just listing the 6 slot
On November 20 2015 08:50 BobMcJohnson wrote: 2. (disclaimer: I'm bad at dota but meepo is my 2nd most played) Yeah eblade is the default, better rightclick and blink > eblade > poof wrecks faces, though a 2nd skadi can help if you're having survivability troubles vs magic damage.
Manta probably has uses in games where you have to rat really hard to win, but I never really was in a situations where I would have built it, and it's way harder to use to its full potential than the other alternatives. Though there are certainly a shitload of really fun next level plays that you can make with the poof to illus.
3. It's has such a ridiculously high skillfloor at pro level that only two people bother playing him and have good results. It's such a niche hero it would be stupid to nerf him because 90% of the pro teams wont bother learning how to play with or against him. I mean it's their fucking job to win at dota. It's in a kinda similar situation as techies at TI5 on a pro-level perspective, except it's mechanically wayyyyyyyyyy harder to play, easier to counter, and it doesn't ruin pubs like techies did.
Aka. he's perfectly fine, a super niche surprise pick, with a super high skill cap but still powerful enough to win games when the player masters him near perfectly. If that's not some kind of game designer wet dream i dunno what is.
If all the pro teams decide that he's op and they all start playing him, yeah go ahead and nerf him but whiles theres only w33ha and notail who play him he's fine in my book.
Dunno, I'd change him for the same reason why I'd change brood or huskar. While dota is a game full of specialists, some specialists are too strong if against a lineup that's bad at handling them.
So i'd prolly reduce poof damage a bit and make him a bit more resistant to splash damage (especially bfury). Try to make him less hit or miss.
On November 20 2015 08:50 BobMcJohnson wrote: 2. (disclaimer: I'm bad at dota but meepo is my 2nd most played) Yeah eblade is the default, better rightclick and blink > eblade > poof wrecks faces, though a 2nd skadi can help if you're having survivability troubles vs magic damage.
Manta probably has uses in games where you have to rat really hard to win, but I never really was in a situations where I would have built it, and it's way harder to use to its full potential than the other alternatives. Though there are certainly a shitload of really fun next level plays that you can make with the poof to illus.
3. It's has such a ridiculously high skillfloor at pro level that only two people bother playing him and have good results. It's such a niche hero it would be stupid to nerf him because 90% of the pro teams wont bother learning how to play with or against him. I mean it's their fucking job to win at dota. It's in a kinda similar situation as techies at TI5 on a pro-level perspective, except it's mechanically wayyyyyyyyyy harder to play, easier to counter, and it doesn't ruin pubs like techies did.
Aka. he's perfectly fine, a super niche surprise pick, with a super high skill cap but still powerful enough to win games when the player masters him near perfectly. If that's not some kind of game designer wet dream i dunno what is.
If all the pro teams decide that he's op and they all start playing him, yeah go ahead and nerf him but whiles theres only w33ha and notail who play him he's fine in my book.
Dunno, I'd change him for the same reason why I'd change brood or huskar. While dota is a game full of specialists, some specialists are too strong if against a lineup that's bad at handling them.
So i'd prolly reduce poof damage a bit and make him a bit more resistant to splash damage (especially bfury). Try to make him less hit or miss.
On November 20 2015 08:50 BobMcJohnson wrote: 2. (disclaimer: I'm bad at dota but meepo is my 2nd most played) Yeah eblade is the default, better rightclick and blink > eblade > poof wrecks faces, though a 2nd skadi can help if you're having survivability troubles vs magic damage.
Manta probably has uses in games where you have to rat really hard to win, but I never really was in a situations where I would have built it, and it's way harder to use to its full potential than the other alternatives. Though there are certainly a shitload of really fun next level plays that you can make with the poof to illus.
3. It's has such a ridiculously high skillfloor at pro level that only two people bother playing him and have good results. It's such a niche hero it would be stupid to nerf him because 90% of the pro teams wont bother learning how to play with or against him. I mean it's their fucking job to win at dota. It's in a kinda similar situation as techies at TI5 on a pro-level perspective, except it's mechanically wayyyyyyyyyy harder to play, easier to counter, and it doesn't ruin pubs like techies did.
Aka. he's perfectly fine, a super niche surprise pick, with a super high skill cap but still powerful enough to win games when the player masters him near perfectly. If that's not some kind of game designer wet dream i dunno what is.
If all the pro teams decide that he's op and they all start playing him, yeah go ahead and nerf him but whiles theres only w33ha and notail who play him he's fine in my book.
Dunno, I'd change him for the same reason why I'd change brood or huskar. While dota is a game full of specialists, some specialists are too strong if against a lineup that's bad at handling them.
So i'd prolly reduce poof damage a bit and make him a bit more resistant to splash damage (especially bfury). Try to make him less hit or miss.
Nah that's LoL style balancing no thanks.
You are overexaggerating. Atm meepo in pro games is pretty akin to Broodmother or Huskar. If he's drafted in the right situation as fourth or fifth pick you can just stop watching the match. I don't mind outdrafts, but dealing with meepo needs too many heroes and there are too little available that deal really well with him. In addition the best one is a top pick, so even if you ban ember the enemies don't necessarily see it coming.
On November 20 2015 17:27 evanthebouncy! wrote: how to deal with the death timer shit's brutal you're lvl 20 when everyone's lvl 10 you die you die for YEARS!
is the true way to rat until a good opening and avoid bad team fights and just rat more?
Doesn't he still have a 20% shorter respawn?
Yeah use your bots to constantly push out lanes with your other meepos. Keep your prime meepo's bots off cd to bots mass poof and then blink-hex an unsuspecting enemy. Just make sure other heroes are accounted for otherwise you might be getting baited.
On November 20 2015 17:27 evanthebouncy! wrote: how to deal with the death timer shit's brutal you're lvl 20 when everyone's lvl 10 you die you die for YEARS!
is the true way to rat until a good opening and avoid bad team fights and just rat more?
Doesn't he still have a 20% shorter respawn?
Yeah use your bots to constantly push out lanes with your other meepos. Keep your prime meepo's bots off cd to bots mass poof and then blink-hex an unsuspecting enemy. Just make sure other heroes are accounted for otherwise you might be getting baited.
On November 20 2015 17:27 evanthebouncy! wrote: how to deal with the death timer shit's brutal you're lvl 20 when everyone's lvl 10 you die you die for YEARS!
is the true way to rat until a good opening and avoid bad team fights and just rat more?
Doesn't he still have a 20% shorter respawn?
Yeah use your bots to constantly push out lanes with your other meepos. Keep your prime meepo's bots off cd to bots mass poof and then blink-hex an unsuspecting enemy. Just make sure other heroes are accounted for otherwise you might be getting baited.
reduced timer got canned in 6.84
Ah I thought that was a nerf reverting the scaling 30% shorter to 20%. That must have been the previous patch.
Dunno, don't think that it's too huge of an issue more than say an am. If you're THAT much higher you're probably soaking up too much farm from your team?
On November 21 2015 05:15 hariooo wrote: Brood/Meepo/Huskar are not top picks though. How are they OP?
They aren't op per se. They are op in situations and special drafts or against drafts that lack counters. Example in Frankfurt (roughly 100 games): Meepo is 2:0. Huskar is 6:3. Brood is 6:2. Now you can argue that the sample size is very small, which is true, especially for Meepo, and that there are multiple heroes who have similar stats (Abbadon is 2:0 f.e. as well). The difference is that all three received numerous bans, especially in the fourth and fifth phase. Meepo was banned in 10 games, with only two teams playing him. Now both teams got to the finale and OG played lots of matches, but still, being banned in 10% of the matches is no small feat for a hero who is like never first picked. Huskar got banned 28 times. Brood got only picked 8 times, but received 39 bans, overall being picked or banned in 47% (!) of the matches. Compare that to other heroes who have a winrate as high or higher than huskar (mostly thanks to low number of games played): The only hero who received more bans than meepo (who as I said was played only by two teams) was bh, who received 12 picks and 11 bans. All of them received pretty much exclusively 2nd and 3rd phase bans.
On November 21 2015 05:15 hariooo wrote: Brood/Meepo/Huskar are not top picks though. How are they OP?
In competitive scenario picking meepo/huskar/brood requires a special draft around it since those heroes don't compliment draft(like those heroes need to be worked around) but rather are engines of it (unlike qop/sf which are pretty much good pick most of the time .. ok maybe brood too can be a complement but it's pretty rare ) and the enemy draft needs to be terrible against it.
All 3 are very good 4th/5th material where it works as a surprise pick(outdraft) and there's little to no room for enemy drafters to draft against it but 1st/2nd picking can pretty much end up in a disaster.
In pubs just hits towers+heroes and pubs aren't coordinated enough to stop the hero if played correctly it'll end up people running at the hero 1 by 1. Meepo is kinda the same and much easier you'll just rip through teamfights if you keep dying or your team does you just farm your way into 1 teamfight or wait till they run 1 by 1 unto you that's pretty normal pub phenomenon ( pretty funny to see your teammates see you as a god for meepo-ing them even though the way you won is kinda like more luck and less to do how good you are lol ).
That isn't the point at all. My post was a response to someone who wants to homogenize those heroes. That's a LoL style of balancing and it's not appropriate.
It's like saying they should nerf AA because he's so specialized in being the only hero to prevent healing. Except that is the entire concept of the hero.
On November 23 2015 01:59 hariooo wrote: That isn't the point at all. My post was a response to someone who wants to homogenize those heroes. That's a LoL style of balancing and it's not appropriate.
It's like saying they should nerf AA because he's so specialized in being the only hero to prevent healing. Except that is the entire concept of the hero.
I didnt say that i want to homogenize the heroes. I said that I want their strengths and weaknesses to be a littlebit less extreme. I'm not against heroes having concepts or being good in special situations, or against outdrafts, I'm against heroes who have very few counters and change the game massively. I don't mind the AA Doom interaction in the slightest (btw I wouldnt say that preventing healing is the main selling factor of AA anyways). I would mind scorched earth being so strong that he runs over your entire team in the duration if you don't disable healing.
Because that's precisely the interaction of Huskar with low physical damage below the 25th minute, of Brood with no lane counters and to a lesser extend Meepo with low burst sustain lineups.
A lot of the Huskar wins were straight up over the moment Huskar was picked, because the other side had only one or two picks to answer and there are very few heroes who can take him down during his timing.
That's like saying you don't like when picking a healing lineup into AA is an auto lose. If you don't like drafts losing the game then you're going to have a problem with more than just these few heroes.
On November 23 2015 02:29 hariooo wrote: That's like saying you don't like when picking a healing lineup into AA is an auto lose. If you don't like drafts losing the game then you're going to have a problem with more than just these few heroes.
Nope, not at all. I don't have a problem with a specialized lineups having one hard counter. I'm having a problem with 2/3rds of the standard lineups having a hard counter that as a result gets banned every time and never sees play.
If you think differently, in what way is doom silencer qop tusk alch a specialist lineup? Meepo participated in 16 of 20 kills, snatched more than the entire rest of the team together.
On November 23 2015 02:44 hariooo wrote: Except that lineup is more than capable of playing against Meepo.
Yeah cdec thought the same thing. It was either Maelk or Synd who said that the only real counter to Meepo is Ember. Everything else quickly falls off or needs to long.
Even the two teams who played him fifth banned him both once against each others (out of their 4 maps), with lineups like wyvern, invoker, tusk, pl, dazzle which seem capable of dealing with him one way or another.
On November 23 2015 02:44 hariooo wrote: Except that lineup is more than capable of playing against Meepo.
no all 4 of those heroes are pretty terrible against an 8k meepo player
the vast majority of meepo players might not be able to outperform those heroes, but meepo is considered a doom counter, an alch counter, and a qop counter... and silencer still needs some kind of huge single target damage on his team to take advantage of global
in theory its super easy to catch one meepo in the early-mid game if you can just get last word to proc before he poofs and mob him... but a team playing around their own meepo are gonna try to let that meepo snowball as hard as possible, and they'll be working to secure him pickoffs and defend him from pickoffs
Uh meepo is a hell of a lot of counters to varying degrees. With just an ember or core shaker the game is on razors edge, with 2 or more you can't screw up at all unless all their damage dealers suck against him. With rubberband, scythe nerf, and without respawn bonus you have only one path to win (in a pro game) and screwing up more than once against any decent lineup will cost you way too much. CDEC picked one of the worst possible lineups to go against Meepo and they also played like they had food poisoning so them losing isn't really surprising. Main thing is a lot of these are not great picks right now and you can definitely cheese out certain common drafts, but even with not great lineups like the VG/Secret game at NYC you have tons of room to screw meepo over. It's just drafting common things like 1 Doom or Qop and mid Alch really makes you really weak without your other heroes all being amazing.
Hard: Ember Core Shaker Mag (if he's not the only initiation) Spectre (need other good heroes to ensure you don't collapse, but midgame+ is autowin) PA ( "" ) Invoker Timber Sven Core Warlock (lol) Jugg Wyvern Dazzle (only with other good cores)
Soft: Storm Clinkz Lich (depends on if he has to buy support items or not, whether he gets some kills etc) Tide Kunkka Enigma Void ET Silencer (only if you have other good cores) Jakiro Lina Tusk (only if you have multiple other good cores) Support Shaker SK (ehhh) Earth Spirit
idk if i'd consider spec a meepo counter... doesn't the meepo team just win at their first or second aegis timing? spec seems bad against lineups that can 5man highground between 25-40 minutes (thats pretty much how secret lost all their spec games, vs 5man), and that's what meepo does
i mean if your other 4 heroes were good highground defense heroes then you probably weather out meepo's timing and outscale him, sure... but i just don't find spec like an especially key feature of beating meepo this way; a lot of hard carries that eventually outscale meepo can do this
corelock is also just one of the most underrated cores right now period
On November 23 2015 13:20 Napushi wrote: Skilling earthbind makes no sense to me, as it only works if the team has a good early game hero right ?
earthbind is also great for controlling heroes that have a blink spell like qop or am. it allows you to hold them still while you damage them with poof and chain the spell so you can right click them down. these kinds of heroes tend to be really weak (low hp or armor), so as Tuna said, you can solo kill a lot of heroes really easily before they can get their defensive items to cope with earthbind (e.g. Manta style)
and even heroes without a blink..your ability to hold them in place and accumulate geostrike stacks to slow/dmg them is also super important and a reason to get the skill, early game hero or not.
On November 25 2015 14:27 Napushi wrote: Can anyone one help me with keybinding fro meepo pls. I rly like the hero and want to feel comfortable paying him.
if you haven't discovered the joys of quick casting, you may want to do that in your hotkey options. I believe its the third tab you can navigate to when you're binding in the options menu. I personally quick cast everything except my default TP hotkey and if I have a hero whose spell id rather see the radius for, I change that on an individual basis.
the enormous benefit of quick casting is that when you are blink-poofing or just mass poofing, you can press "tab + w" instead of "tab + w + click." not only does the latter require coordination between your two hands to time it properly, but its just an extra keystroke on a non-targeted spell..totally unnecessary.
now beesa was commenting on a different tab behavior in the new patch. i cannot speak to that but i still think its important to have control group hotkeys for your meepos even if you can cycle through by tabbing without having a control group selected
1 - meepo prime
2 - meepo 2+3
3 - meepo 4+5
4 - meepos 2-5 OR all meepos
5 - i personally have a courier hotkey here, but perhaps your illusions could go on this key for illu runes and a manta style game.
practice your farm or blink poofs in a lobby. glhf!
On November 25 2015 14:27 Napushi wrote: Can anyone one help me with keybinding fro meepo pls. I rly like the hero and want to feel comfortable paying him.
if you haven't discovered the joys of quick casting, you may want to do that in your hotkey options. I believe its the third tab you can navigate to when you're binding in the options menu. I personally quick cast everything except my default TP hotkey and if I have a hero whose spell id rather see the radius for, I change that on an individual basis.
the enormous benefit of quick casting is that when you are blink-poofing or just mass poofing, you can press "tab + w" instead of "tab + w + click." not only does the latter require coordination between your two hands to time it properly, but its just an extra keystroke on a non-targeted spell..totally unnecessary.
now beesa was commenting on a different tab behavior in the new patch. i cannot speak to that but i still think its important to have control group hotkeys for your meepos even if you can cycle through by tabbing without having a control group selected
1 - meepo prime
2 - meepo 2+3
3 - meepo 4+5
4 - meepos 2-5 OR all meepos
5 - i personally have a courier hotkey here, but perhaps your illusions could go on this key for illu runes and a manta style game.
practice your farm or blink poofs in a lobby. glhf!
1- main meepo with items 2- all other meepos except main meepo 3 - all meepos
i change nothing , and i just manually like micro them when i make all other meepos farm different locations. I don't quick cast while it should be easier like bluemoon said it's like nothing changed for me cause i'm used to normal poofing and it's not really slower for me when with clicking added
On November 26 2015 14:19 Buckyman wrote: How do you deal with an enemy Disruptor?
rip him fast before he could throw spells
outside that you can't just don't get caught or somebody from the team needs to bait the ult i guess
On November 25 2015 14:27 Napushi wrote: Can anyone one help me with keybinding fro meepo pls. I rly like the hero and want to feel comfortable paying him.
if you haven't discovered the joys of quick casting, you may want to do that in your hotkey options. I believe its the third tab you can navigate to when you're binding in the options menu. I personally quick cast everything except my default TP hotkey and if I have a hero whose spell id rather see the radius for, I change that on an individual basis.
the enormous benefit of quick casting is that when you are blink-poofing or just mass poofing, you can press "tab + w" instead of "tab + w + click." not only does the latter require coordination between your two hands to time it properly, but its just an extra keystroke on a non-targeted spell..totally unnecessary.
now beesa was commenting on a different tab behavior in the new patch. i cannot speak to that but i still think its important to have control group hotkeys for your meepos even if you can cycle through by tabbing without having a control group selected
1 - meepo prime
2 - meepo 2+3
3 - meepo 4+5
4 - meepos 2-5 OR all meepos
5 - i personally have a courier hotkey here, but perhaps your illusions could go on this key for illu runes and a manta style game.
practice your farm or blink poofs in a lobby. glhf!
I use some variation of this too except I don't quickcast the net.
On November 26 2015 14:30 goody153 wrote: my setup when playing meepo recently is
1- main meepo with items 2- all other meepos except main meepo 3 - all meepos
i change nothing , and i just manually like micro them when i make all other meepos farm different locations. I don't quick cast while it should be easier like bluemoon said it's like nothing changed for me cause i'm used to normal poofing and it's not really slower for me when with clicking added
On November 26 2015 14:19 Buckyman wrote: How do you deal with an enemy Disruptor?
rip him fast before he could throw spells
outside that you can't just don't get caught or somebody from the team needs to bait the ult i guess
this is the key bind I use. I dynamically create group 5 and 6 for split pushing, where 5 has my main meepo + 1, and 6 is the rest 3 meepos.
I use space bar in place of tab, give it a try. I'm used to old legacy keybind, where tab+e for earth bind and tab+f for poof was super confortable.
but with the new qwer keybind, tab + q is giving me cramps on hand, and tab + w isn't much better. So I changed tab to spacebar, and as a result space+w and space+q is super super comfortable, I highly recommend trying it out.
I normally play with QWERDF skills (f is ult) and 2-7 items (1 is hero select). When I play Meepo I set W to quickcast for easy poofs.
My C is unit group cycle. My unit hotkeys are VBNJ. I keep each individual hotkeyed for greater control, and because you may need to group your Meepos in different ways depending on who's back to heal, etc.
With 4 Meepos I'll have 1 and V together and B and N together. By double tapping 1 I can box-select them and do W C W. If you hit your cycle key too many times you'll just go back to the first Meepo as long as you have the two of them selected. So then I jump to B and box those two and repeat the Poof cycle combo, so that I'm 1-shotting two different creep waves or jungle camps, etc.
With full combo it'll be like blink (3) net (Q) WCWCWCWCW VQ-- which blinks main meepo on the enemy, nets the target, then poofs all Meepos on him, then selects second Meepo and drops 2nd net (if even necessary).
One of the scariest enemies I haven't seen mentioned above is Bloodseeker; his aoe silence, capacity to situationally ruin one Meepos life, and the huge bonus damage and speed he gets from multiple low Meepos is all pretty scary.
but he's chump. during his 2 second for silence channel you can basically have 1 net on him and blow him up with just auto attacks in 2 seconds easy. that guy is so squish if you catch him with net he'll explode.
after your blink he's basically free food, he has no way to defend himself if netted. He has no single target burst nor have immediate aoe disable.
i think you ruin game for your teammates by farming at low hp however, he gets so freaking buff for no reason haha
yeah i think if he tries to solo kill you, you just turn on him and pummel him to death with your shovel.
you also should have plenty of time in between lvl 6-11 to out farm him, so that lvl 1 rupture makes it an easy choice to dodge blood rite's silence/nuke, then poof away.
On November 25 2015 14:27 Napushi wrote: Can anyone one help me with keybinding fro meepo pls. I rly like the hero and want to feel comfortable paying him.
if you haven't discovered the joys of quick casting, you may want to do that in your hotkey options. I believe its the third tab you can navigate to when you're binding in the options menu. I personally quick cast everything except my default TP hotkey and if I have a hero whose spell id rather see the radius for, I change that on an individual basis.
the enormous benefit of quick casting is that when you are blink-poofing or just mass poofing, you can press "tab + w" instead of "tab + w + click." not only does the latter require coordination between your two hands to time it properly, but its just an extra keystroke on a non-targeted spell..totally unnecessary.
now beesa was commenting on a different tab behavior in the new patch. i cannot speak to that but i still think its important to have control group hotkeys for your meepos even if you can cycle through by tabbing without having a control group selected
1 - meepo prime
2 - meepo 2+3
3 - meepo 4+5
4 - meepos 2-5 OR all meepos
5 - i personally have a courier hotkey here, but perhaps your illusions could go on this key for illu runes and a manta style game.
practice your farm or blink poofs in a lobby. glhf!
I use some variation of this too except I don't quickcast the net.
Having groups of two Meepos makes splitting them to farm the jungle super easy.
So why use 4 controlgroups? I have: [1] Meepo Prime [2] Meepos 2-5 [3] Meepos 4&5
So I send controlgroup [2] to a jungle camp (they all go) and then send controlgroup [3] to another jungle camp so 2 & 3 will still go to the one and 4 & 5 will go to the other.
On November 25 2015 14:27 Napushi wrote: Can anyone one help me with keybinding fro meepo pls. I rly like the hero and want to feel comfortable paying him.
if you haven't discovered the joys of quick casting, you may want to do that in your hotkey options. I believe its the third tab you can navigate to when you're binding in the options menu. I personally quick cast everything except my default TP hotkey and if I have a hero whose spell id rather see the radius for, I change that on an individual basis.
the enormous benefit of quick casting is that when you are blink-poofing or just mass poofing, you can press "tab + w" instead of "tab + w + click." not only does the latter require coordination between your two hands to time it properly, but its just an extra keystroke on a non-targeted spell..totally unnecessary.
now beesa was commenting on a different tab behavior in the new patch. i cannot speak to that but i still think its important to have control group hotkeys for your meepos even if you can cycle through by tabbing without having a control group selected
1 - meepo prime
2 - meepo 2+3
3 - meepo 4+5
4 - meepos 2-5 OR all meepos
5 - i personally have a courier hotkey here, but perhaps your illusions could go on this key for illu runes and a manta style game.
practice your farm or blink poofs in a lobby. glhf!
I use some variation of this too except I don't quickcast the net.
Having groups of two Meepos makes splitting them to farm the jungle super easy.
So why use 4 controlgroups? I have: [1] Meepo Prime [2] Meepos 2-5 [3] Meepos 4&5
So I send controlgroup [2] to a jungle camp (they all go) and then send controlgroup [3] to another jungle camp so 2 & 3 will still go to the one and 4 & 5 will go to the other.
Just adds a bit of flexibility. For example with your method if you shift-amove 4-5 across two jungle camps and then want to give a new order to 2-3 while 4-5 are killing the first camp you'll have to re-give them the order. Also allows you to double tap the control group to recenter camera on whatever group you want
On November 23 2015 05:49 Ver wrote: Hard: Jugg Dazzle (only with other good cores) Spectre
I disagree with 3. I pretty much never see Jugg get both fast enough attack speed and Battle Fury for his ultimate to hurt Meepo, and that is necessary for him to be a counter to Meepo. If Jugg can get farmed enough to get so strong, it would be because the game would be most likely decided by then. All sorts of heroes can counter Meepo if they have a big enough lead. I also disagree with Dazzle; he's fine and all, but most supports are also fine; certainly not a hard counter. Spectre is definitely not a hard counter. At best she'd be a soft counter, but heroes like Lancer, Phantom Assassin, Medusa, or Even Chaos Knight are all slightly more problematic— especially Phantom Assassin.
Soft: Tide Tusk (only if you have multiple other good cores) Support Shaker
Shaker is a good counter (hard counter) to Meepo whether geared up or not. It's mostly the AoE stun that hurts the Meepo, and getting extra farm doesn't change that— well as long as he has blink, which I guess will take some time for a support Shaker to get. Tusk isn't particularly good against Meepo— I don't know what else to say about that. Tide is good in the early game or if he has refresher, but between those two points, it's not really worth mentioning. I wouldn't put him on there.
To add to the list, Riki is nasty. He is at minimum a soft counter, but is actually overall a hard counter I'd say. He's like a Clinkz which doesn't ever have a cooldown for his invis, and has AoE attack "disable" and AoE silence. His ultimate also makes it impossible to run away any Meepos as well (short of trying to get out of the smoke cloud).
On November 23 2015 13:20 Napushi wrote: Skilling earthbind first makes no sense to me, as it only works if the team has a good early game hero right ?
Meepo's one of the many heroes where it can work well to leave the skill untrained until it needs to be used. If you're in a trilane looking to get a kill, in a rune fight, or with an especially good ally dual lane, getting net can work well. In rune fights it's generally used to help you or an ally get away, but can also be used to help get a kill (I find poof typically works better though, otherwise should probably not even be fighting at all)
I don't think you need to think that hard about specific counters in fights. A lot of lineups have some form of aoe control and good damage to kill the Meepo during those stuns. I find that in pro games where Meepo is picked (mostly based on recent OG and Secret Meepo games) the biggest issue is not having a lineup that can in anyway prevent the Meepo from farming freely, getting ahead, getting aegis etc. Meepo is a hero that farms very fast, he takes roshan well, he takes buildings well, and when ahead he makes farming your way back into the game very hard because of how he can punish split push. If you can't keep the game close early on you can have whatever "counters" you want but you can still be screwed. Can't really play the game if you can't farm and you have to commit all of your spells to kill this Meepo once in a fight only to have him spawn again, chase your heroes down and take buildings after. On the other hand as we've seen in Secret's games if you manage to stop the Meepo from snowballing even a single hero can make the game miserable for Meepo, such as Invoker or Timbersaw at NYC.
I would love to be a good/better meepo .. hardly ever see the hero being played as is. Is there a reason for it or just because he is a hard hero to play?
There used to be a hotkey to cycle through all your units/heroes but that button seems to be gone Do you hotkey each meepo individually now? Or how do you do it?
On March 30 2016 07:19 Juice! wrote: Do you hotkey each meepo individually now? Or how do you do it?
I find that having a mouse with multiple buttons helps a ton -- I have a button bound to cycle through my current control group so multiple poofs at once is near instantaneous with practice. I know plenty of people will have control groups bound for specific meepos or groups of meepos and I think over time it just becomes muscle memory.
I spent maybe 20 or 30 games with bots just trying to get the feel of cycling through meepos let alone microing groups for clearing jungle, but you can definitely notice the progress if you keep at it.
On March 30 2016 07:34 Juice! wrote: i don't have a mouse with lots of buttons, but yeah i'll do some bot matches with him to get the feel :-)
he just looks so amazing when played good :-)
Any reason he is hardly seen in progames?
the last time he was in the pro meta was around frankfurt and before, when he was a pocket pick used by secret and OG
before that, the last time was around TI4
he's incredibly snowball dependent, and the #1 predictor to whether a game is a good meepo game or not is the opponent's heroes. if you pick meepo into 0 counters at 4th or 5th pick, it's often autowin. it also helps if the patch is snowbally and has a lower chance of comeback, because each meepo death is huge and increases his chance of missing his timing.
i won't go into the specific heroes involved, but the current meta both has a lot of heroes that are good at dealing with meepo, and often has longer games than meepo would be comfortable with
No he was telling you why Meepo isn't seen much competitively.
Pubs are a whole different story and if you want to play meepo just go play meepo.
No matter what meta, meepo always have heroes that are good vs him. But you can always overcome that by playing better than the opponents.
Example: w33 playing vs some heroes that are pretty difficult to face as Meepo vs MVP + Show Spoiler +
w33 playing vs both WW and Ember in a pub that are pretty fucking annoying to face + Show Spoiler +
A tip I would give you for learninng meepo in the start is just controlgroups: 1 for Main 2 for rest
Practice a bit in a lobby to blink poof. Just press 2: Spam W->click on mainmeepo->tab (no click with quickcast) and then press 1 for main meepo and blink onto a target. Learning this is crucial as this is your killing combo pretty much.
Always boots aghs into blink. There are no real exceptions tbh. Safer to go treads but if you are comforable to you can stay with brown boots -> aghs->blink->BoTs
On March 30 2016 16:45 Juice! wrote: So basicly you are saying, don't waste your time on meepo since the current meta isn't meepo-friendly at all?
basically yeah
if you get really good at meepo i'm sure you could climb to x mmr but meepo takes a lot of work to get good at and you still can't pick him to carry every game. he can be a huge liability in games that he's not good in, because if you play him properly, you swallow tons of farm.
if you're super advanced you could try to theorycraft a poverty meepo style that consumes less space but still makes some...
basically you can try to figure out intricacies of this hero if you're a hipster and up to a lot of challenge, because i'm sure theres tons of tricks to winning pubs with him
EDIT: rocketbear is 100% right though, until you're near top mmr, and even then, there will always be ways to outskill counter heroes, especially if ppl in pubs are picking them without knowing how to play them as well as their "actual" heroes
Thanks for all the help already and yeah i'm currently floating between 3.2-3.5k mmr .. so no where near any skilled players ^^ i'll just go have some fun and play meepo i guess :-)
meepo won't be relevant unless they have the spawn timer buff again. meepo will die alot and being the highest level each time you die you die for a whole 1+ minute. meepo strength lies in finishing game early, which sucks if you're dead for 1+ minutes at a time
that's the main reason why meepo is not as popular as of late. it's the removal of the spawn time reduction buff
He also carries through ridiculous farm advantage which happens to give 1-1.5k gold when you are basically where you need to be as meepo.
Tbh though if you get strong with him he's one of the best vs spec who is absurdly popular. But to take advantage of this you need to farm quick and take over the game
Mechanics aside that's probably the hardest part of meepo, you need tempo and really good decision making because you are punished hard for mistakes
Also for playing around counter picks, imo the best one was winter wyvern and she's no longer a top pick so that's good. Ember is annoying but you just have to end the game before he's big enough. He's also very prone to blink hex. If there's a big shaker (or any team fight controller tbh) you either have to aggressively pick them off, or rely on aegis
He's good to practice cause you have to learn a lot. Mechanics, positioning, item timiNgs, executing ganks, ending the game and not fucking around, not throwing... Etc
i was practicing like 20 unranked games of tinker (not meepo) the past week but the hero doesn't really appeal to me (i mean its not really fun for me. its REALLY hard but i was warming up to it, but it just wasn't that fun atm....even the laning phase isn't very fun for some reason)
so i tried MEEPO again just out of interest and my practice with tinker suddenly meant i could combo with meepo almost instantly LOL WTF? and i mean, after like 15 mins at demo hero i was blink comboing using the "regular" method that i've never done in my life before and then loaded straight into an unranked game AND WON IT LOL? then i won the next one (like 14-1 score but my team were wrecking them and our pudge triplekilled my mid).
its really freakin crazy though how the practice of tinker combos suddenly made me insanely intelligent and able to do meepo combos. i can't believe my eyes. (for those who dont play tinker: the simple march combo is like "\1ae3r1ae3\" ... thats 6 DIFFERENT buttons, yeah its hard...mainly i think coz i am soulring before every skill instead of before rearm)
now i'm dead tired but tried sticking tab on my middle mouse button and practicing (demo hero) with that for a while, seems VERY powerful for quickly netting multiple locations. and i noticed that there's a cool earlygame/level 4 combo where you net, then get like 3 autoattacks in before netting again, then 2 autoattacks before nuking, and it does like 600+ damage easily. it works of course coz you get ~3.5 seconds of free autoattacks and then your nuke still hits them with its AOE range as they run off. (not tested this vs players yet lol)
anyway just saying hi to any meepo players out there.... if you remember i had a blog where i tried to learn meepo in the past (using my own special combo/hotkeys where you poof AFTER blinking) http://www.liquiddota.com/blogs/509900-i-won-as-meepo and it took me like 10 straight losses just to win 1 game, and i totally couldn't pull off any blink combo to save my life most of the time. so its totally weird to be able to do it mostly flawlessly after practicing tinker for 20 games and spending 30 mins with demo hero. maybe i'm not brain damaged after all
then someone picked sven and i fed their wr mid like 0-4
i still play meepo from time to time. for some people they just pick a hero they want to be better at and for me that will always be meepo.
some people prefer to "visualize" comboes or take them to the lab before trying them and some people (even the same people) just do better by having a blank slate and doing stuff on a whim. if we even extend this, some people do better not having played at all for a while when they typically do better by practicing often. i think what you're describing is something along those lines.
it's just a game at the end of it and with meepo being so hard to maximize with, his concept of play is still pretty simple (and even limited) most of the time. that's what i enjoy about games and about meepo.
I was watching a few meepo replays and i just realised that you can hold the level 2 skill point and get ult + level 2 poof at level 3. Being forced to skill net or geostrike at level 2 always felt meh a lot of the time. Nice.
It's probablt obvious for a lot of people but hey, I don't think I ever saw someone mention it in meepo discussions so it's always worth sharing I guess.
On July 24 2017 23:01 BobMcJohnson wrote: I was watching a few meepo replays and i just realised that you can hold the level 2 skill point and get ult + level 2 poof at level 3. Being forced to skill net or geostrike at level 2 always felt meh a lot of the time. Nice.
It's probablt obvious for a lot of people but hey, I don't think I ever saw someone mention it in meepo discussions so it's always worth sharing I guess.
yeah also with that lvl 3, two meepo poof u can just run people down have one meepo chase after them then the other poof on to him then repeat with the first one poofing while the 2nd chases u can get a surprising amount of first bloods.
You can poof to illusions, super super useful early game. You can easily gank lanes without committing, and if their supports over commit to an illusion you can poof 2 meepos and end them
This is a bit general but.. meepo is all about the early aegis at lv 15 around 15 mins. Try to get your team on board with that, and either help you do it or shove lanes hard when you are going for it. Without the aegis this hero is pretty bad.
Silver edge is situationally better than blink (or get both) vs heroes with nasty passive like axe.
Meepo has to be played aggressively to be effective, you need to take fights on your terms and you need to get pickoffs.
When playing meepo ur mindset should be dominate or die trying, there's no sense is fucking around and getting jumped on. Your team needs to learn to play around you
When playing meepo ur mindset should be dominate or die trying, there's no sense is fucking around and getting jumped on. Your team needs to learn to play around you
And that's exactly why I very, very rarely pick meepo in pubs nowadays Even if it would be a freewin. At least 2 mates in the team or no meepo....
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/9/97/Meepo_Large.png)
![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-utDwM6StFss/ULwfayIWuqI/AAAAAAAACTM/wufpARmyjYM/s1600/meepo_dota2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eTSPnJb.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/thumb/d/df/Earthbind.png/105px-Earthbind.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/thumb/c/ce/Poof.png/105px-Poof.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/thumb/1/1e/Geostrike.png/105px-Geostrike.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/thumb/4/42/Divided_we_stand.png/105px-Divided_we_stand.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/b/bf/Stout_Shield.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/9/91/Tango.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/9/9c/Healing_Salve.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/e/eb/Iron_Branch.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/d/df/Poor_Mans_Shield.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/6/62/Wraith_Band.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/a/a4/Ring_of_Basilius.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/6/63/Magic_Stick.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/e/e8/Ring_of_Aquila.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/0/07/Boots_of_Speed.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/7/78/Urn_of_Shadows.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/1a/Hand_of_Midas.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/7/73/Power_Treads.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/15/Arcane_Boots.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/1e/Phase_Boots.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/2/22/Tranquil_Boots.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/d/d8/Boots_of_Travel.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/b/b8/Mekansm.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/0/00/Blink_Dagger.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/d/da/Aghanims_Scepter.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/a/a2/Armlet_of_Mordiggian.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/a/a9/Drum_of_Endurance.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/1e/Pipe_of_Insight.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/f/f5/Vladmirs_Offering.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/a/a6/Heart_of_Tarrasque.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/c/c9/Ethereal_Blade.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/6/64/Eye_of_Skadi.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/b/b3/Manta_Style.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/4/40/Assault_Cuirass.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/10/Butterfly.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/8/86/Lich.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/7/74/Dazzle.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/7/78/Vengeful_Spirit.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/d/d6/Beastmaster.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/e/e7/Wisp.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/5/51/Warlock.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/c/ce/Disruptor.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/b/bd/Earthshaker.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/d/dd/Sven.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/0/03/Faceless_Void.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/13/Luna.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/0/0d/Undying.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/8/8b/Enigma.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/6/6c/Tidehunter.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/1/1d/Bounty_Hunter.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/2/27/Templar_Assassin.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/e/ef/Anti-Mage.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/9/9c/Clinkz.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/e/ec/Tinker.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/9/9a/Bane.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/e/ea/Shadow-Shaman.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sOiHkdd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2Xv3JTy.jpg)
