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in all honesty I think armlet might be the way to go.
from playing TB he needs hp regen at some point in sustained farming.
It's only 500 more gold expensive than drum.
Compare with dragon lance it gives 200 more health, for 300 more gold.
Armlet illusions sounds pretty dope too.
Whoever said earlier that "the only way to play TB is to be more farmed" is absolutely correct though. He doesn't do much beside being a super tanker and dps creep in team fights.
I think builds shoudl focus on tankiness, that's all he needs. Probably armlet/BoT into skadi / heart to get a sunder off in fights
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Armlet is not the way to go.
aquila boots dragon lance yasha travel manta is.
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On May 25 2016 04:37 evanthebouncy! wrote:
in all honesty I think armlet might be the way to go.
from playing TB he needs hp regen at some point in sustained farming.
It's only 500 more gold expensive than drum.
Compare with dragon lance it gives 200 more health, for 300 more gold.
Armlet illusions sounds pretty dope too.
Whoever said earlier that "the only way to play TB is to be more farmed" is absolutely correct though. He doesn't do much beside being a super tanker and dps creep in team fights.
I think builds shoudl focus on tankiness, that's all he needs. Probably armlet/BoT into skadi / heart to get a sunder off in fights
Armlet is not bad but dragon lance is just better I think. The added range is really felt in fights. On top of this, TB hardly takes any damage from creep because of his insane armor and good natural regen.
Getting skadi before manta is very questionable in every game I feel. Manta helps you farm way faster, synergizes very well with travels and deals insane DPS. Remember to use it while in melee form so you don't wait 193482309428389hours to have it off cd!
TB usually cannot afford to not join fights by the time he has dragon lance and maybe a yasha. You should totally join most games because you'll be dealing insane dps and you won't be THAT squishy. You also push very quickly. Ofc, when fight is over you resume your powerfarming but that's normal.
Aquila is a very good item.
PMS is very good too now more than it was before with illusions being able to tank easier (You can send illusions to the small camp and medium camps while you farm in lane during the laning stage and they'll net you some extra cs).
The teardrop thingy is also pretty good because you can spam illusions more freely AND you pretty much cannot be bursted down before getting a sunder off unless you get ganked by 3-4 people (and even then they have to be good heroes at killing you).
QB pms aquila tear boots DL should be your "early" inventory I think. A bit slot starved but tear can be sold when you need the slot. The price is low and it will probably save you from a gank or something.
Yasha and travs should come right after and this is where your farming will explode because of your movement speed mostly but also yasha's damage.
Manta is always a must.
Skadi is almost always a must. Against an antimage I would consider getting a heart instead but you get the point.
Now comes the part in which you have to adapt. Most games butterfly is the way because it synergizes with your large HP pool for EHP and makes your illusions very hard to take down but also very dangerous.
A BKB at this point can be the way against some heroes like zeus and all those annoying guys.
After these items, you have to choose between the usual late late game ones like satanic/mkb/daedalus(usually not worth it but it can be great if your team is a bit short on the disable side and you need to kill people very quickly... a rare choice but a great one sometimes).
note1: If you are stomping a team that relies on autoattack, consider buying a talisman of evasion right after your butterfly to go for a pretty much unstoppable GG push since they can't afford MKBs.
note2: diffusal seems pretty good but I haven't tested it yet. I will try it soon.
note3: Hurricane pike can be worth getting. It's not really that bad but it has to be last thing you do most games.
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Two words, Vanguard TB. Legit as fuck
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Last pro tb I saw went something like brown boots aquilla vanguard dl and either yasha skadi or manta skadi.
And yeah tb is probably one of the few heroes where vanguard beats armlet. The life-degen really hurts when your life pool is that small and damage block is probably more efficient than armor.
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I think armlet is better. The extra burst of 500 health is more potent on TB than on any other heros with lesser armour. TB already has huge armor, all he needs is extra health to survive.
The armlet illusions has 500 more HP than a tb illusion w/o armlet, if you tried to use them to farm you'll see that they're mega potent at tanking creep waves, definitely comparable to vanguard. If you're low on HP you can armlet toggle, make illusion, and sunder the illusion to get back to comfortably 50% hp as well.
I mean TB spends sometime being ranged too, I just don't see vanguard gets its full value. I like dragon lance more if anything, 300 extra health, and the added range will help you not to be in the middle of things and get bursted
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There is a couple of reasons why vanguard TB is actually really a good item on him. but here is the main 2 reasons really why its much better on him.
First off
1) Sustain. Having Vanguard with his innate health regen actually gives him close to 12 hp/sec even at lvl 1. Making his sustain incredible, allowing him to fuck over any solo offlaner in the game if he gets only a few mins of babying, and even survive any potential offlaner's harass. allowing him to trade more than effectively.
2) his illusions benefit WAY too much from the damage block. Infact, once you have vanguard, just sending your level 1 illusion to medium/small camps on autoattack path will allow them to clear it before the minute spawn. This is incredible, as no other item besides vanguard can allow his illusions to do that at such an early level, unless its something like a skadi lol, and this speeds up your farm SOO much.
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Yea, but...
Your illusions ONLY benefit from the damage block, and vanguard blocks only 12 damage more than PMS while costing something like 1.5k gold more. The block drops to a measly 6 damage extra when you're in ranged form.
Worth? Strongly disagree.
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lel... no. PMS only blocks about effectively 11 dmg or so from creeps. So vanguard is actually a HUGE boost to TB illusions in regards to using illusions to clear creep camps. The best aspect is really the sustain and the ability to jungle with illusions greatly increasing gpm. I repeat, NO other item, outside of a heart or skadi will allow you to farm jungle with illusions like a vanguard will. EVER.
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I mean, i rarely have HP problems while clearing camps with TB, and with tango salve stout I rarely have problems with regen with TB in lane. Mane appeal of VG is the VIT booster it gives...but I think i'd rather just get the DL and start progressing towards my first main item.
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the hp problem and the mana problem is complimentary.
If you have enough mana sustain you use illusions to tank and your main hero takes no damage, and you continue to create full hp illus
if you have enough sustain you let your main hero tank and illusions do dps
Given the 2 scenarios I actually think using illusions to tank is superior. So the right thing might be get more mana regen items, I'm thinking a basi-ring and a teardrop. Then you should have infinite sustain, not taking any damage on your main hero.
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I was messing with the hero builder, terrorblade uses 80 mana per ~15 seconds
so if you want to go full illusion spam everytime it is on cd, you'd need 320 mana / min, which translates to roughly 5 mana / sec
To achive that you can do 1 basi ring 4 infused raindrops
#sweg
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Its not even about using illusions to tank while u jungle. What I am talking about is sending illusions to farm creep waves, even taking out creep camps by themselves once you have higher levels in illusions, all the while you remaining at full hp due to vanguard, while clearing jungle creeps with ur main hero.
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but i already do that with the super beefy armlet illusions O_o
I guess we should compare with illusion has higher value
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Sounds like armlet vs vanguard on tb is a game to game call. If you need higher physical resistance and there's a lot of aoe, go vanguard for the damage block and since your illus get toasted every nuke anyways.
If your illus have a realistic chance to survive the aoe with some bonus health or there's a lot of single target burst, go armlet for 2x bonus hp.
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Dragon Lance is another alternative--it's an INSANE value stats item now, +15 str/agi for only 2k gold. I think it's the new drums for ranged carries.
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Armlet on TB, is the same reason as why armlet on void or PA or whoever is NOT good.
Armlet best functions in the sense that you have carries that have some sort of sustain built in for it to be good. thats why most of the better armlet carries are like wraith king, dk, lifestealer, dragon knight. The only exception is CK because he makes good use of it if just for his illusions.
Armlet TB feels underwhelming as fuck. First off, there is simply no reason for TB to turn on armlet while farming. This is because he has no way to get back any of the lost health. even if you are using illusions to tank, so the extra farming speed is extremely marginal.
There are also many times where you just get jumped by 2-3 heroes at once and chained stun to death. you wont get the additional HP boost if you cant toggle it, and even in the event that you DO manage to turn on the armlet, the extra hp doesnt pay off as much as a vanguard does with the dmg block and innate 250 hp. Truth to be told, Vanguard will let you survive 2 and even 3 man ganks by allowing you time to survive the intital burst and get a sunder off.
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but u can get blink after ur armlet and slay ppl with ur sunder
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SoCal8910 Posts
Ignoring the fact that you're saying armlet on PA isnt good...
I agree with your reasoning on why it's bad on tb. The hero makes no use of the active whatsoever.
He maybe likes the hp but overall, you're going to be using illusions to push lanes and farming the jungle until you're super beefy bc you have all the items you need.
I actually really like radiance this patch bc he received some buffs in the ehp department so you can hit the jungle a lot sooner and be farming the lane at the same time = faster relic.
I wasn't big on radiance with this hero but right now, I'm a fan.
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Vanguard is better just because you can make it an abyssal on a hero who gets 6 slotted in 30 minutes. You gotta be as slot efficient as possible. Abyssal kinda replaces heart / satanic which never were great for tb anyway.
Also the dmg block on illusions allows you to last hit in lane (illus can survive more right clicks) while you cycle camps easier, Keeps u safe and off the map. Especially good if ur going treads vanguard radiance or treads yasha vg radiance. I'm not sure what build is optimal.
Tear drop is very good if you are skipping Aquila (if ur committing to radiance build you generally don't push as fast, opting to cycle jungle when wave is near their tower)
I still think he has the same problems as before. Massive gold xp lead -- one death and you've swung 5k net worth
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EPT
