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On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy?
Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba.
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On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba.
Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play.
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I actually see TL swapping MC for Moonmeander tbh. JUst a thought that crossed my mind!
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On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play.
Given how players think he does that, I'm pretty sure I beleive them a lot more than you. Plus if Kuro isn't listening to him, thats not on bulba
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On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy?
Like Kuro left the team right? He replaced Jerax.
I don't the see the team directionless, I see it sucking in a very disarmonious way. This is not a problem of leadership or support plays, here you have zero synergy between the two cores. You could ask Miracle to play his role once in a while.
You can focus on whatever you want to avoid blaming it on the players who are not up to their task. The thing is even if you replace Bulba, as long as they don't find their place they won't play any better.
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On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play.
I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything.
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On October 31 2016 04:51 Gear 3rd wrote:
I actually see TL swapping MC for Moonmeander tbh. JUst a thought that crossed my mind!
I'd be up for that. TL needs a wolf in the offlane, not a sheep 
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On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything.
Yeah its not like miracle has been a huge downgrade from fata, its all bulbas fault lamo
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On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything.
The bulba train will flame you for that statement.
From my perspective it was clear this will happen. I was surprised they placed top 4 and went to the playoffs. Their plays yesterday where good.
Bulba still not working in that setup.
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It would be nice if Liquid will stick together and try to work hard like they did after the missed Frankfurt Qualifier. I think that beside the qualifier was way better than their first games with the new rooster.
It looked to me as if the qualifier was just a bit too early for the team and that they can get better in future tournaments. The qualifier was a very hard one and VP and Ad Finem are perfectly capable to perform well at the Major and earn Europe more spots at the next one.
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On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything.
lol are we really blaming bulba for aui carry, scamcret and miracle looking like a account buyer? Most teams fail, blaming one player for that is pretty silly
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On October 31 2016 04:56 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. Yeah its not like miracle has been a huge downgrade from fata, its all bulbas fault lamo
We were talking about Bulba right?
I wasn't commenting on Miracle, but his play hasn't been exceptional either. Although I'd say the invisible support play was largely the reason he didn't take off in a lot of the games.
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On October 31 2016 05:02 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. lol are we really blaming bulba for aui carry, scamcret and miracle looking like a account buyer? Most teams fail, blaming one player for that is pretty silly
I wouldn't say Bulba ruins teams. But he's not the player you bring in to take a two time Major finalist and top 8 TI team up to trophy level.
You say you'd believe the players more than me, fine. So why do the players only recruit Bulba when they're in need of spaces to fill and on a deadline?
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On October 31 2016 05:02 Jinkku wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 04:56 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. Yeah its not like miracle has been a huge downgrade from fata, its all bulbas fault lamo We were talking about Bulba right? I wasn't commenting on Miracle, but his play hasn't been exceptional either. Although I'd say the invisible support play was largely the reason he didn't take off in a lot of the games.
We're talking about why this team is failing, and the big reason is that FATA could win 1v1s and not feed when people went agressive against mid, leaving the supports able to make space for matu and help MC in the offlane. Miracle can't do that, leaving supports with 3 lanes they have ot try to help.
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On October 31 2016 05:07 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 05:02 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:56 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. Yeah its not like miracle has been a huge downgrade from fata, its all bulbas fault lamo We were talking about Bulba right? I wasn't commenting on Miracle, but his play hasn't been exceptional either. Although I'd say the invisible support play was largely the reason he didn't take off in a lot of the games. We're talking about why this team is failing, and the big reason is that FATA could win 1v1s and not feed when people went agressive against mid, leaving the supports able to make space for matu and help MC in the offlane. Miracle can't do that, leaving supports with 3 lanes they have ot try to help.
Sure you could argue that. You could also argue that FATA had a lot of help from his supports.
Don't get me wrong, FATA was awesome in churning out a solid net worth all the time, but even more of the laning stage is on supports. Jerax was absolutely killer in ganking the midlane, FATA definetely wasn't left alone as much as Miracle in this iteration of Liquid.
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On October 31 2016 05:06 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 05:02 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. lol are we really blaming bulba for aui carry, scamcret and miracle looking like a account buyer? Most teams fail, blaming one player for that is pretty silly I wouldn't say Bulba ruins teams. But he's not the player you bring in to take a two time Major finalist and top 8 TI team up to trophy level. You say you'd believe the players more than me, fine. So why do the players only recruit Bulba when they're in need of spaces to fill and on a deadline?
Eh he's been the best player on the team, you just don't notice as Kuro shoves him on ogre/oracle/undying most of the time, and those heroes copy the fate of the team.
When he played a nyx4 he singlehandedly won that game, his disruptor was great as well, did the same, his rubick was good too when Kuro let him play it before the whole Kuro Matumba shenanigans started it looked like they finally put him on 4 supports playmakers , then they started swapping he had to 5 again... you have an offlaner on aggro support and he played those really well.
You guys mentioning Bulba have obviously not seen most of their games, be honest and tell me you have seen >50pct since TI.
All this bullshit was said before he joined but if you still keep repetitively spewing that you haven't watched the actual team play
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On October 31 2016 05:13 Jinkku wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 05:07 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 05:02 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:56 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. Yeah its not like miracle has been a huge downgrade from fata, its all bulbas fault lamo We were talking about Bulba right? I wasn't commenting on Miracle, but his play hasn't been exceptional either. Although I'd say the invisible support play was largely the reason he didn't take off in a lot of the games. We're talking about why this team is failing, and the big reason is that FATA could win 1v1s and not feed when people went agressive against mid, leaving the supports able to make space for matu and help MC in the offlane. Miracle can't do that, leaving supports with 3 lanes they have ot try to help. Sure you could argue that. You could also argue that FATA had a lot of help from his supports. Don't get me wrong, FATA was awesome in churning out a solid net worth all the time, but even more of the laning stage is on supports. Jerax was absolutely killer in ganking the midlane, FATA definetely wasn't left alone as much as Miracle in this iteration of Liquid.
Eh wtf? They were straight up dual laning in a lot of games mid, and most early game ganks were towards mid. You guys are talking out of your ass really I don't remember so much support for midlane we focused on with ogre etc whole last year that I do last 2 months
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On October 31 2016 05:13 Jinkku wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 05:07 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 05:02 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:56 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. Yeah its not like miracle has been a huge downgrade from fata, its all bulbas fault lamo We were talking about Bulba right? I wasn't commenting on Miracle, but his play hasn't been exceptional either. Although I'd say the invisible support play was largely the reason he didn't take off in a lot of the games. We're talking about why this team is failing, and the big reason is that FATA could win 1v1s and not feed when people went agressive against mid, leaving the supports able to make space for matu and help MC in the offlane. Miracle can't do that, leaving supports with 3 lanes they have ot try to help. Sure you could argue that. You could also argue that FATA had a lot of help from his supports. Don't get me wrong, FATA was awesome in churning out a solid net worth all the time, but even more of the laning stage is on supports. Jerax was absolutely killer in ganking the midlane, FATA definetely wasn't left alone as much as Miracle in this iteration of Liquid.
I believe he said exactly the opposite. FATA didn't need as much help as Miracle seems to need to win his lane or even survive multiple ganks.
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On October 31 2016 05:19 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 05:06 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 05:02 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:54 Jinkku wrote:On October 31 2016 04:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 Jaaaaasper wrote:On October 31 2016 04:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 31 2016 04:44 Racket wrote:
That moment when the weak link is the most stable player on the team. WTF? You can be fans, but you gotta realize a player is not the best by himself, he needs FOUR other players. Stop picking on one when the team as a whole is playing bad. And when the entire team is directionless and one player has been repeatedly praised for providing leadership and draft strategy? Given how kuro is still drafting and shot calling, thats on him not bulba. Sure, but we can at least end the myth that he provides anything except his own play. I agree, it's not really rocket science - teams with Bulba in them don't succeed.. even if he isn't the only one to blame, the pattern is pretty clear. Kuro hasn't been nowhere near as effective with him as Kuro was before with Jerax. It's an obviously massive downgrade and the "leadership" hasn't accounted to anything. lol are we really blaming bulba for aui carry, scamcret and miracle looking like a account buyer? Most teams fail, blaming one player for that is pretty silly I wouldn't say Bulba ruins teams. But he's not the player you bring in to take a two time Major finalist and top 8 TI team up to trophy level. You say you'd believe the players more than me, fine. So why do the players only recruit Bulba when they're in need of spaces to fill and on a deadline? Eh he's been the best player on the team, you just don't notice as Kuro shoves him on ogre/oracle/undying most of the time, and those heroes copy the fate of the team. When he played a nyx4 he singlehandedly won that game, his disruptor was great as well, did the same, his rubick was good too when Kuro let him play it before the whole Kuro Matumba shenanigans started it looked like they finally put him on 4 supports playmakers , then they started swapping he had to 5 again... you have an offlaner on aggro support and he played those really well. You guys mentioning Bulba have obviously not seen most of their games, be honest and tell me you have seen >50pct since TI. All this bullshit was said before he joined but if you still keep repetitively spewing that you haven't watched the actual team play
Bulba's always been good on certain heroes, decent at others, and is generally not a shit player.
But people always say he's good at drafting, has early game leadership, contributes a lot to strategy, and yet across all teams his been on bad early game and bad drafting has been a consistent theme. And no, he's only been the captain on a couple of those teams, but this has been such a running gag that the only explanation is that A) his skills in those regards are highly overrated by other players, or B) other players recognize he's great, just that the 40 or so teammates he's had in the last 3 years all choose to ignore him.
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