EPTOG Discussion - Page 35
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
(how come? I know XP is lower but overall they get more out of jungle oO) | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
you don't really get to play poverty jungle carry or have a 20m radiance and win the game they just played poorly, and poor. nor do you get to lose your lane all the time. LFY turned around and played a TB game just fine. | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
On June 05 2017 07:31 LemOn wrote: Yeah looks like Naga TB don't work so well anymore (how come? I know XP is lower but overall they get more out of jungle oO) iceforg nerfed jungle XP, and mid lane has more creep and more XP now, ana is struggling with this new patch. but at the very least, OG's naga strategy is fun to watch, they won't turtle so much, they setup big fight with naga's ult and played good as 5, not like Liquid's naga, once they pick naga, everyone except kky is farming, they just turtle, turtle, turtle till they die. | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
Game 1 was pretty weak too- Veno afk jungling a midas while the safe lane gets crushed? And by a super gankable dual lane? Watsefak. With that result and performance it's actually questionable that OG make it out of groups. | ||
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lookfirewood
1212 Posts
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sweatbomb
Sweden469 Posts
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
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brinepumps
Indonesia753 Posts
And now, they didn't do great at all, they really really tanked in this tournament, and put them back on reality. From what I've seen in the true sight, the moment when they were down 5-22, they were asking "How's our late game" it shows good mentality. If I had to put money on which team will come back better after series of poor god-awful results, it's them. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On June 08 2017 15:37 Julmust wrote: I mean that depends on how you define slump. They took a long vacation after Kiev so they have some catching up to do. Same thing happened to liquid after.... not the last SL but the one before that. Their team fight coordination was off all tournament. They played fine at Manila Masters, their loss to Faceless mostly being down to two wins by Faceless. Beyond the team fight issues, I think they're drafting incorrectly. Things have gotten a lot more tanky and a lot more focused on crashing in the 35 minute range. You need to win your lanes & snowball, go even in your lanes and have massive team fight, or be able to farm super hard into the late game while getting pick offs around the map. OG seems to be trying to do a tad too much with their strategic approach. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
but if OG ever falls behind in levels or lose a fight they choose to have, they will never have enough damage to settle the fights or even make use of a pickoff. the dragon knight game they have against secret was sorta in their hands, they kind of just needed to get the dragon knight a BKB so he can fight around objectives with everyone and survive. i think that draft was a good idea, but their DK died far too many times. that is the kind of draft that you can play slightly better and win with. as a fan of OG, i'd rather them get crushed and learn from it than to breeze through until TI. no mentality business, that should be on lockdown already, just focus on decision making and playing to have a clearly better teamfight (which means trading farm in most cases), which they have in most matchups. they win small fights, lay some deep wards, and then they try another set of fights and push their luck a little too far, giving up some of the advantage they earned in the process. Notail dies a lot for what he tries to do, especially on naga, they will fight before blink daggers more often than not, which takes people by surprise, and it works spectacularly a lot of the time. IE, stuff with S4 jerax, s4 solo enigma, etc. at some point notail should play to farm and let his capable teammates do the best that they can without him. this way he doensn't need to play catchup after joining fights (regardless of outcome) and he can fight after he is finished a round of farming instead of having to play slow after trying to play fast. sometimes it's a trap to take a fight right as you get an item. it's hard to know relatively how ahead you are or what impact the item has, and at this point he has so much practice planning and going for timings and seemingly no practice playing it solid and slow to make sure he will scale to a later point in the game, and making less pressure on his team to 4/5 man smoke into their wards to make an objective happen no matter what. as for what secret does that has won against OG, i used to think that starting from manila masters that secret had a clear weakness. you would pick an invis or vision hero and split push, or do pickoffs in early-midgame with the advantage of said heroes, and they would just lose. it was that simple. had to do with how the played against these heroes, including a heavy lack of truesight. this was after riki/tree/MK stopped being first pick first ban material. but then at this tournament they gave yapzor an invis hero or a heavy pressure one like clockwerk and it worked wonders. they no longer relied on heavy teamfight, which then OG decided to pick for: naga setup, void, recently drow/gyro, you know, the different stuff like that. then you look at EG drafts and bans and they pick similarly, but i feel the main difference being that they actually win their midlane, they are not afraid to devote one hero that excels at sitting in that lane at the start and making the early gold difference happen and controlling the runes in the process, and then finally they pick arteezy a good lane matchup with a hero that is hard to deal with. i think that's the direction that OG goes in if they don't try and veer away from the meta as it is now. at the end, i would just like to say, S4 is an amazing player. except for that time his puck got dumpstered by GH disruptor, that was brutal.. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
You got to exploit your players strong sides. You got to give jerax and ana the heroes and strategies to be aggressive and to win you the game. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
losing's really good for their TI mentality actually (remember last year's complacency and choke?) | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
Also ana needs to perform better, imo. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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ChickenDieAlive
699 Posts
On June 09 2017 07:34 Murlox wrote: Afaik they took a 3 week break after the major too, so yeah they're probably a bit off, regarding the meta. Also ana needs to perform better, imo. Ana needs to learn how to win mid. Laning is extremely important this patch. OG can't leave Ana alone and hope he will come back in the mid game anymore. On June 09 2017 04:52 NInoff wrote: I really like OG too, second favorite team, but since the major their biggest issues are not pressing the advantage when they have it ( since the meta is much faster now) and drafting issues.. Drow strats are now for this patch guys. Naga? Hell no. Liquid lost 6 in a row before they understood that. The drow game they won vs liquid was because of some Liquid mistakes in the crucial moments, and of course - jerax Earth Spirit. You got to exploit your players strong sides. You got to give jerax and ana the heroes and strategies to be aggressive and to win you the game. OG should have won game 3 vs. Liquid. Miracle was crushed by Jerax's rotations. But OG took 2 bad fights next to enemy shines (Why OG? Why?) and things turned to shit. | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On June 09 2017 04:52 NInoff wrote: I really like OG too, second favorite team, but since the major their biggest issues are not pressing the advantage when they have it ( since the meta is much faster now) and drafting issues.. Drow strats are now for this patch guys. Naga? Hell no. Liquid lost 6 in a row before they understood that. The drow game they won vs liquid was because of some Liquid mistakes in the crucial moments, and of course - jerax Earth Spirit. You got to exploit your players strong sides. You got to give jerax and ana the heroes and strategies to be aggressive and to win you the game. OG naga is nothing like Liquid naga. OG pick naga for the teamfight (don't think i've ever seen Og naga without wombo combo) while Liquid purely split push, draining their other cores in the process and having a weird role swap among their players to boot. I'd also like to point out that their Kiev major win was damn far away from perfect play. A fuckton of series went 2-1 with several nail biters. One teamfight going another way and they could have been out just as early as in epicenter. OG have great mental strength and moments of brilliance (S4/Jerax mostly) but they're far from being dominant (talking pre Ti5 Secret levels). | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
Concerning this patch I think part of the issue is that OG hasn't been a team that plays much around strong lanes and dominating games. Instead their typical lineup imo in the past had good teamfight, good farming capabilities and good lategame. Then they often played somewhat conservatively, sticking quite a bit together and off the map (generally with 1 TB, Alch, Naga, Invoker or whatever pushing the lanes), making sure they don't screw up, and then at some point they catch the enemy out of position and the game just tilts heavily in their favor. Of course this is a pretty big generalization but still. The teams that have been successful in this patch play more around having good lanes and having heroes that can pressure early on. I think OG should have the players for a slight switch in style though. I think they'll be back once they get to sit down and practice a bit more. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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hunter_x
Germany2762 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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