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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 22 2015 08:21 zdarr wrote:
I just want ot point out that none of the people that said "secret have to win TI or it's a fail" got a secret flair. Honestly most of the secret game are really close game and they are playing on the edge.
They can lose to the future winner earlier then in the finals and get out of top 2 and it wouldn't be a shame. Claiming TI title before playing it, after winning 4 lan after a huge patch would be foolish
I mean, that's the thing, Secret are definitive top 1 team in the world right now. I mean, i take chances that EG may get on their level in 6 weeks, hence i notice about finals. Them however losing to any other team at TI in series would be a definite flop, because that's just not what the team is capable of.
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On June 22 2015 08:44 goody153 wrote:
Everytime Puppey lifts a trophy you can see the immense satisfaction on his face, like he's telling all the haters and doubters "Yeah, I did it, and I'll do it again and again, and you can't stop me"
what a player
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On June 22 2015 08:21 zdarr wrote:
I just want ot point out that none of the people that said "secret have to win TI or it's a fail" got a secret flair. Honestly most of the secret game are really close game and they are playing on the edge.
They can lose to the future winner earlier then in the finals and get out of top 2 and it wouldn't be a shame. Claiming TI title before playing it, after winning 4 lan after a huge patch would be foolish
I don't think Secret will win TI for sure, but of course they are by far the strongest team right now. Many games were close but from what I have seen is that no matter if they are losing or winning, defending or attacking, they are, in those situations, 75% of the time split pushing, and to be fair they really know how to do it...
So, unless teams can outdraft them hard and come up with a solution to deal with their splitpush, TI will only be a replay of ESL.
On June 22 2015 15:08 PoulsenB wrote:Everytime Puppey lifts a trophy you can see the immense satisfaction on his face, like he's telling all the haters and doubters "Yeah, I did it, and I'll do it again and again, and you can't stop me" what a player
I am sure that goes for every player, there are always haters and players will always find satisfaction in proving them wrong. Am I right?
Off(on) topic: I wonder where are all those who hated on s4 so badly back when Secret wasn't performing now that his contribution is clearly taking them to the top. Same for those who doubted Zai.
EDIT:
Thanks for the interview.
It is so funny how hard he tries not to give away too much information by mistake.
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Congratulations on winning ESL - Seeing Team Secret play is pretty fun.
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I must say it has been a good month to be a Secret fan  they remind me so much of the crisp & clean DotA that Alliance played at TI3, really fun to watch :D
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On June 06 2015 04:23 HighTimeDotA wrote:
All aboard the bandwagon. secrets gonna win ti5 choo choo
its not to late to hop on, next stop TI5.
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On June 23 2015 04:40 HighTimeDotA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 04:23 HighTimeDotA wrote:
All aboard the bandwagon. secrets gonna win ti5 choo choo its not to late to hop on, next stop TI5.
LOL, well played!
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I've just come back to DOTA after a break and watched Secret's games vs Fnatic on ESL... And I must say, I'm proud I put their logo in my sig so long ago.  [even though I liked the old one better]
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Its so funny yet confusing that when Alliance were on top of TI3 with their 'rat dota' style of play i hated them for that. I was annoyed everytime i saw them play! On the other hand now Secret seems to do more or less the same, or at least a very similar playstyle but it doesnt bother me at all. I wouldnt even call it rat dota (for 'some' reason).
Is it really just the personal flavor of liking kky and ppy (kuroky is by far my favourite pro player I'd say) and disliking Loda, or is it a difference in their style which i cannot differenciate? I mean tbh it took me a while to even classify secrets playstyle as splitpush-heavy...
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On June 24 2015 03:26 Gear 3rd wrote:
Its so funny yet confusing that when Alliance were on top of TI3 with their 'rat dota' style of play i hated them for that. I was annoyed everytime i saw them play! On the other hand now Secret seems to do more or less the same, or at least a very similar playstyle but it doesnt bother me at all. I wouldnt even call it rat dota (for 'some' reason).
Is it really just the personal flavor of liking kky and ppy (kuroky is by far my favourite pro player I'd say) and disliking Loda, or is it a difference in their style which i cannot differenciate? I mean tbh it took me a while to even classify secrets playstyle as splitpush-heavy...
The reason anyone disliked ratting is because they hated Alliance/Loda for some unexplicable reason. Especially after TI3 when they beat the fan favourites Navi.
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uh I'm pretty sure you can dislike a style of play regardless of the team or team members
swe poster too rofl
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Indeed you can. On the other hand I think most people who watch dota appreciate any team playing good dota.
You could compare it with football/soccer, at some point Barcelona were dominating football but were quite boring to watch according to some, it seemed like they just passed the ball around needlessly, but at some point they just changed gear and did incredible stuff that any football fan likes.
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On June 24 2015 03:26 Gear 3rd wrote:
Its so funny yet confusing that when Alliance were on top of TI3 with their 'rat dota' style of play i hated them for that. I was annoyed everytime i saw them play! On the other hand now Secret seems to do more or less the same, or at least a very similar playstyle but it doesnt bother me at all. I wouldnt even call it rat dota (for 'some' reason).
Is it really just the personal flavor of liking kky and ppy (kuroky is by far my favourite pro player I'd say) and disliking Loda, or is it a difference in their style which i cannot differenciate? I mean tbh it took me a while to even classify secrets playstyle as splitpush-heavy...
I guess most people dislike getting ratted in their games, and when they see their team losing to rat, it annoys them even more. But when the team they cheer for rats, magically it becomes bearable or even something praiseworthy.
It does not make the rat players less deserving of anything though, but I find rather sad when players that are able to deliver such high level of play resort to rat, it is understandable tho, they want to win no matter what.
I believe it all come to personal tastes and experiences.
I couldn't stand if the team I cheer for go rat, even if that gets them a TI. I don't respect the playstyle and I never will.
For those who played SC1, when I used to play with friends there was only one rule: "No carriers", for us it felt the same as ratting in Dota, we were friends and there was no need for such tactics.
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Well, you could call some games of Secret "rat", but IMHO this is another "style" of rat:
[A] played a very defensive rat: Try to avoid all fights. Pushing lanes and then get the hell back and only doing chip-damage on objectives. Basically nothing happened!
Secret are still very aggressive. They use splitting the map and pushing lanes to spread out the other team and get pick offs with KotL-Recalls (this hero is vital in Secrets play!!) and other means to get a number advantage! And slowly farm all their heroes (not only carries) to get important items! I'm not sure if I saw another team at ESL One, that got Glimmer Capes on BOTH their supports! Also Solar Crest is very important.
Secret's play is more action! So I'm not "bored" by their rat!
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Yeah, they are much more aggressive and mobile around the map, Alliance had 1-2 mobile heroes while the rest stalled. It also leads to them accumulating gold lead seemingly out of nowhere, whereas Alliance was often behind, so you feel like they are running circles around their opponents instead of abusing game mechanics.
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On June 24 2015 16:56 Geisterkarle wrote:Well, you could call some games of Secret "rat", but IMHO this is another "style" of rat: [A] played a very defensive rat: Try to avoid all fights. Pushing lanes and then get the hell back and only doing chip-damage on objectives. Basically nothing happened! Secret are still very aggressive. They use splitting the map and pushing lanes to spread out the other team and get pick offs with KotL-Recalls (this hero is vital in Secrets play!!) and other means to get a number advantage! And slowly farm all their heroes (not only carries) to get important items! I'm not sure if I saw another team at ESL One, that got Glimmer Capes on BOTH their supports! Also Solar Crest is very important. Secret's play is more action! So I'm not "bored" by their rat!
No doubt man, you are right. I prefer way more this kind that old [A], at least with Secret you get to see some sick plays and enjoyable engages.
They will be emulated, I am sure of that. We have already seen a team trying Naga's song into Clock's cogs and SF's ult.
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Racket please all teams "good" teams know how to rat nowadays.
I can't believe you don't actually know what Ratdota is about and you've been posting here for a long time. You clearly think that "ratting" is exclusively "splitpushing". Which is a completely wrong . You do realize that rat playstyle is just "avoiding fights until the time is right to fight" ?
Which is called "smart fighting". Why are you even playing/watching dota if you don't like the concept of it? It's like the very core of the game right now . One of the things that separates dota from others is that it's not all about "fighting" there is this thing called resource allocation and map movement which involves in "farming".
If you wanted to all fighting then why don't you play wc3 hero arenas or something similar. Looks like you just wanted mindless brawl which is not dota. You'll find more luck on other games with your thought process you will end up disappointed cause that's not what dota is about. You'll find endless poking of each other without killing or avoiding fights a lot for good positioning or the spells are in CD or until items are up in dota alot.
Ratdota is not about "pussying and splitpushing more than fighting" it's about "fighting at the right moment with the correct items/levels and positioning"
For those who played SC1, when I used to play with friends there was only one rule: "No carriers",
It's like goliaths/hydras/scourge don't exist.
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On June 24 2015 17:10 goody153 wrote:Racket please all teams "good" teams know how to rat nowadays. I can't believe you don't actually know what Ratdota is about and you've been posting here for a long time. You clearly think that "ratting" is exclusively "splitpushing". Which is a completely wrong . You do realize that rat playstyle is just "avoiding fights until the time is right to fight" ? Which is called "smart fighting". Why are you even playing/watching dota if you don't like the concept of it? It's like the very core of the game right now . One of the things that separates dota from others is that it's not all about "fighting" there is this thing called resource allocation and map movement which involves in "farming". If you wanted to all fighting then why don't you play wc3 hero arenas or something similar. Looks like you just wanted mindless brawl which is not dota. You'll find more luck on other games with your thought process you will end up disappointed cause that's not what dota is about. You'll find endless poking of each other without killing or avoiding fights a lot for good positioning or the spells are in CD or until items are up in dota alot. Show nested quote +For those who played SC1, when I used to play with friends there was only one rule: "No carriers", It's like goliaths/hydras/scourge don't exist.
Goody, first of all I am not sure every team knows how to rat nowadays, for instance I still have to see NaVi do it, every time they tried it they only humiliated themselves.
Also, I know what it is about, splitpush is just an example that shows it the easiest: when you wanna fight me I go back meanwhile one of my pals gets some other lane. It is a simplification.
I already said it before, Secret has shown themselves as particularly focused in split pushing this last tournament (as opposed to two months ago), whether they were losing or winning, attacking or defending, 75% of those situations had RTZ or s4 split pushing (only if they had the items to do so), even while team fights 4v5 were taking place.
I can only commend them for achieving such a feat even if I don't like the style (which is completely personal and I have no interest arguing whether it is respectable, I am not here to fight over that).
I watch dota because I like CIS dota style. Dota was not always about rat (smart fighting), if it were we would have no other playstyles other than that. We had a lot of successful playstyles through these last four or five years.
I don't think CIS doto is mindless brawl either (not saying that you implied that, just trying to make a connection between the messy fights I like to see, were I find the most joy seeing how they outplay each other, and your description of what dota ain't about).
For instance, why is Suma1l praised so much? Because of his Storm, which he outplays many people with, even if he is not better farmed or the fight could not be called a smart fight given his position or being outnumbered or whatever.
Lastly, man come on... of course, we also had scouts, but when you play with friends just to enjoy the while, there is no need for 200/200 carriers.... Like when you play football with friends and there is always that dumb one who goes at the ball like your feet is not behind it, and then he says "you should have moved then, it is not my fault"... No, if you wanna win so bad go play a tournament.
You know what was our way to deal with carrier makers? We rushed 4v1 him at the beginning and then he was out of the whole game. What was the counter strategy of our opponents? Given that we played lan games, they all used the same nickname, so you could never know for sure who was who.
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"Carrier makers"? Lol :D. This is actually hilarious... Were Battle-Cruiser allowed? Cause these are way tougher to deal with and, on the Level you seem to have played, also easy enough to get (if not easier due to Terrans turtling ability)
As for the Rat thing.
IIRC(!) the Alliance-Rat worked diffrently or at least was, pickwise, clearly more focussed on the "pure" Rat (but this could just as well be the patch/fotm heroes of the time).
I mean aside from AM which clear splitpush heroes does secret actually play? They take heroes that can do it, but not hereos that exist just because of it (NP...)
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On June 24 2015 17:56 Velr wrote:
If you try to counter Carriers with Hydras, your most likely in deep shit (or on 2-3 x the, running, economy of the Protoss) :D.
As for the Rat thing.
IIRC(!) the Alliance-Rat worked diffrently or at least was, pickwise, clearly more focussed on the "pure" Rat (but this could just as well be the patch/fotm heroes of the time).
I mean aside from AM which clear splitpush heroes does secret actually play? They take heroes that can do it, but not hereos that exist just because of it (NP...)
As of ESL, they just pick KOTL and recall the splitpusher when needed.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WCEQkpB.jpg)
