|
On June 22 2018 22:59 FreakyDroid wrote:
I personally don't care if he stays, goes to another team or retires, but calling people who want him gone shortsighted, when the only constant in NaVi's failures all these years is none other than Dendi. He is the only one who hasn't been replaced. So the question is: are people justified when they are gunning for him. The absolutely are. Do they need a captain? Sure. Is he the only problem. No. Has NaVi changed many captains, which now are captaining other teams that are doing better than them? Yes, every single one of the teams lead by their ex-captains are doing better than them. So the question is: is really the problem in the captains or is it something else? We all know the answer, so lets stop pretending and dancing around this fact.
We all know that they need a captain. Does every captain that has been in NaVi better than NaVi? Are you serious? Until LeBron left, none, NONE of them did better (aside from Puppey). What the hell are you talking about? fng wasn't doing better a month ago, neither Goblak nor PSM. I repeat, what the hell are you talking about?
Dude, move on. You are not making any sense. This iteration played what.. four games against tier2 teams? Be real.
Dendi has been there always, yes. And he has shown he wasn't the problem, the lack of leadership was. Name one captain that would not join because of Dendi and is worth hiring. I am all ears.
On June 23 2018 02:41 joe_ringmaster wrote:
The video of NaVis CEO is out now including english subtitles:
He is talking about decisions, about putting all dota stuff inactive for the next 2 months, about 2 ways of building another roster, about Dendis message and about haters.
Enjoy.
I did. Its nice. Thanks for sharing
|
On June 23 2018 03:45 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 22:59 FreakyDroid wrote:
I personally don't care if he stays, goes to another team or retires, but calling people who want him gone shortsighted, when the only constant in NaVi's failures all these years is none other than Dendi. He is the only one who hasn't been replaced. So the question is: are people justified when they are gunning for him. The absolutely are. Do they need a captain? Sure. Is he the only problem. No. Has NaVi changed many captains, which now are captaining other teams that are doing better than them? Yes, every single one of the teams lead by their ex-captains are doing better than them. So the question is: is really the problem in the captains or is it something else? We all know the answer, so lets stop pretending and dancing around this fact. We all know that they need a captain. Does every captain that has been in NaVi better than NaVi? Are you serious? Until LeBron left, none, NONE of them did better (aside from Puppey). What the hell are you talking about? fng wasn't doing better a month ago, neither Goblak nor PSM. I repeat, what the hell are you talking about? Dude, move on. You are not making any sense. This iteration played what.. four games against tier2 teams? Be real. Dendi has been there always, yes. And he has shown he wasn't the problem, the lack of leadership was. Name one captain that would not join because of Dendi and is worth hiring. I am all ears. Show nested quote +On June 23 2018 02:41 joe_ringmaster wrote:
The video of NaVis CEO is out now including english subtitles:
He is talking about decisions, about putting all dota stuff inactive for the next 2 months, about 2 ways of building another roster, about Dendis message and about haters.
Enjoy. I did. Its nice. Thanks for sharing
And then you wondered earlier why I called you a Dendi apologist. This is prime example why. You are oblivious to facts and have selective memory.
Besides PSM, all ex NaVi captains are doing better: FNG got 3rd in the CIS qualifiers, Sonneiko with a makeshift team got 5-8. Navi got what, Ro32? Im not even going to talk about Puppey or ArtStyle. Heck even all the guys they kicked like Biver and Phobos did better in the qualifiers. This is real, based on results, not your nonsense or whatever that is written in that post above.
The days when NaVi could tear teams apart and grab whoever they want is over. At this moment you shouldnt be asking if a captain is worth to be picked up by NaVi, but if NaVi in its current state is worth a good captain. Go watch that interview from NaVi's CEO when he talks about Dendi and how they cant get players:
"I know fans don't believe in him. Not only fans but players too. I don't know what to do in this situation."
You're in denial if you think Navi can grab a good captain. They cant and they wont unless they decide to do what they should have done AGES AGO: start fresh. Just look at the CIS qualifiers, lots of great potential there and why Navi cant get any of those young prospective CIS players in the last few years? You know the answer and stop bullshitting me and more importantly stop bullshitting yourself. You probably swallowed the blue pill when they said management will decide who they'll hire on their team. Lol, you could see the lies from miles away: the simple truth is: the constant players on NaVi Dendi and General have 0, null, nada attraction power, that;'s why they sold you a lie that they'll take statistics to hire players. What a pile of crap lol, if you swallowed that, jokes on you. the simple truth is, good players avoid NaVi.
You're all ears as long as you hear what you want to hear, except the truth.
|
On June 23 2018 05:16 FreakyDroid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2018 03:45 Racket wrote:On June 22 2018 22:59 FreakyDroid wrote:
I personally don't care if he stays, goes to another team or retires, but calling people who want him gone shortsighted, when the only constant in NaVi's failures all these years is none other than Dendi. He is the only one who hasn't been replaced. So the question is: are people justified when they are gunning for him. The absolutely are. Do they need a captain? Sure. Is he the only problem. No. Has NaVi changed many captains, which now are captaining other teams that are doing better than them? Yes, every single one of the teams lead by their ex-captains are doing better than them. So the question is: is really the problem in the captains or is it something else? We all know the answer, so lets stop pretending and dancing around this fact. We all know that they need a captain. Does every captain that has been in NaVi better than NaVi? Are you serious? Until LeBron left, none, NONE of them did better (aside from Puppey). What the hell are you talking about? fng wasn't doing better a month ago, neither Goblak nor PSM. I repeat, what the hell are you talking about? Dude, move on. You are not making any sense. This iteration played what.. four games against tier2 teams? Be real. Dendi has been there always, yes. And he has shown he wasn't the problem, the lack of leadership was. Name one captain that would not join because of Dendi and is worth hiring. I am all ears. On June 23 2018 02:41 joe_ringmaster wrote:
The video of NaVis CEO is out now including english subtitles:
He is talking about decisions, about putting all dota stuff inactive for the next 2 months, about 2 ways of building another roster, about Dendis message and about haters.
Enjoy. I did. Its nice. Thanks for sharing And then you wondered earlier why I called you a Dendi apologist. This is prime example why. You are oblivious to facts and have selective memory. Besides PSM, all ex NaVi captains are doing better: FNG got 3rd in the CIS qualifiers, Sonneiko with a makeshift team got 5-8. Navi got what, Ro32? Im not even going to talk about Puppey or ArtStyle. Heck even all the guys they kicked like Biver and Phobos did better in the qualifiers. This is real, based on results, not your nonsense or whatever that is written in that post above. The days when NaVi could tear teams apart and grab whoever they want is over. At this moment you shouldnt be asking if a captain is worth to be picked up by NaVi, but if NaVi in its current state is worth a good captain. Go watch that interview from NaVi's CEO when he talks about Dendi and how they cant get players: "I know fans don't believe in him. Not only fans but players too. I don't know what to do in this situation."You're in denial if you think Navi can grab a good captain. They cant and they wont unless they decide to do what they should have done AGES AGO: start fresh. Just look at the CIS qualifiers, lots of great potential there and why Navi cant get any of those young prospective CIS players in the last few years? You know the answer and stop bullshitting me and more importantly stop bullshitting yourself. You probably swallowed the blue pill when they said management will decide who they'll hire on their team. Lol, you could see the lies from miles away: the simple truth is: the constant players on NaVi Dendi and General have 0, null, nada attraction power, that;'s why they sold you a lie that they'll take statistics to hire players. What a pile of crap lol, if you swallowed that, jokes on you. the simple truth is, good players avoid NaVi. You're all ears as long as you hear what you want to hear, except the truth.
Dude, you are comparing a team who played less than two weeks. There is nothing else to say.
|
Excuses and always the same ones: no time to gel, no captain. You sound like a broke record repeating the same old crap every time. Something something, definition of insanity something.
Meanwhile Sonneiko with 2 days of practice with a makeshift team got 5-8.
But you're right about one thing, there is nothing else to say
|
Ehh not sure what's the argument is about. My only issue with people blaming dendi is if they say he is no longer a relevant mid player, he is washed up, he can't play farming mids etc. I think ability wise he is not far behind his peers. Navi 2016 was pretty hot with artstyle leading. That's why I'll always standby my opinion that navi failures are more due to lack of captain than dendi being a bad player.
Now if he is the reason why no good players want to join navi, if he is apparently quite toxic in the team, if he insist of leading/drafting the team despite being crap at that, then by all means blame him or replace him for that. If that's not the case, then I think people are just making a scapegoat out of him.
|
On June 23 2018 05:46 FreakyDroid wrote:
Excuses and always the same ones: no time to gel, no captain. You sound like a broke record repeating the same old crap every time. Something something, definition of insanity something.
Meanwhile Sonneiko with 2 days of practice with a makeshift team got 5-8.
But you're right about one thing, there is nothing else to say
This is not an excuse. You can't say today that the captains NaVi had in the past are doing better while comparing them to a two weeks old team that didn't make it out of OQ. A month ago they beat VP and Secret, two of the best four teams in the world. And saying they WERE doing better at that time than every past captain is also plain stupid, because they didn't make it out of group stage and they are not together anymore. Thus, there is nothing left to say. You are angry and can't think properly, using any and every thing to feel justified.
They are shit and it is not up for discussion, none can say otherwise. I am not saying otherwise and I am not defending this last iteration in any way. I don't think they need time. If velheor is no captain then its the stupidest move they could have done, on top of that just before TI.
The difference is you are angry and want Dendi out because you heard a rumor that none wants to join because of him and I don't pay attention to drama and rumors and I think Dendi can stay as long as he can perform and the rumor stays a rumor. If it were to be true, then he can quietly go.
On June 23 2018 12:53 DucK- wrote:
Ehh not sure what's the argument is about. My only issue with people blaming dendi is if they say he is no longer a relevant mid player, he is washed up, he can't play farming mids etc. I think ability wise he is not far behind his peers. Navi 2016 was pretty hot with artstyle leading. That's why I'll always standby my opinion that navi failures are more due to lack of captain than dendi being a bad player.
Now if he is the reason why no good players want to join navi, if he is apparently quite toxic in the team, if he insist of leading/drafting the team despite being crap at that, then by all means blame him or replace him for that. If that's not the case, then I think people are just making a scapegoat out of him.
Same here.
|
Its not rumor that no one wants to join NaVi because of Dendi, their CEO said that lol. You're in denial about this even though you've seen the interview and I also posted the direct quote a few posts ago.
I've also said I dont care what happens to Dendi, whether he stays, or goes or changes position, so Im not angry at Dendi lol. True my last posts are a bit aggressive but they are directed at you, and you've been aggressive towards me for quite a while about this topic. You keep saying the same old thing for many years now yet neither Dendi or NaVi is getting any better and the pool of players they can choose from is getting smaller and smaller.
The last interview from their CEO confirms my position, they are realizing that they need to build a team of players who trust each other. The fact that pro players dont have faith in Dendi means that FINALLY they'll start thinking about replacing him rather then rewarding him for his personality and commitment to the team, because lets face it, up until now replacing Dendi was not on the table.
|
On June 23 2018 20:16 FreakyDroid wrote:
Its not rumor that no one wants to join NaVi because of Dendi, their CEO said that lol. You're in denial about this even though you've seen the interview and I also posted the direct quote a few posts ago.
I've also said I dont care what happens to Dendi, whether he stays, or goes or changes position, so Im not angry at Dendi lol. True my last posts are a bit aggressive but they are directed at you, and you've been aggressive towards me for quite a while about this topic. You keep saying the same old thing for many years now yet neither Dendi or NaVi is getting any better and the pool of players they can choose from is getting smaller and smaller.
The last interview from their CEO confirms my position, they are realizing that they need to build a team of players who trust each other. The fact that pro players dont have faith in Dendi means that FINALLY they'll start thinking about replacing him rather then rewarding him for his personality and commitment to the team, because lets face it, up until now replacing Dendi was not on the table.
At what minute does he say that? Maybe I missed something.
Lets clear some things. I wasn't aggressive. You started calling me Dendi apologetic just because I don't think he is THE problem. Stating my point of view or giving the reasons for my opinions isn't being apologetic of someone. I can do this for any other player just as objective as I do it with Dendi. The thing is you don't like what I write, it is that easy. If doing this turns me into a Dendi apologetic, then I am also a n0tail apologetic and a EE hater and a Puppey hater aswell.
Back to the rumor, I hope they specifically say a few captains didn't want to join as long as Dendi is in the team. If it is not like that then you can already forget it. That is exactly the shit I am talking about. If just any one player said that, the rumor spread and the stupid community we have, made a infalible rule out of that. Of course there is people not wanting to play with him, the same with Puppey and others. It is stupid to blame years of failure on just one guy that time and time again showed he has what is needed to play the game at the highest level. And the team showed time and time again the lack of leadership. I don't believe three or four captains didn't join because of him, and that is what the rumor seems to say, which is bullshit.
If this still doesn't change your mind about me then just don't answer and let me be.
|
https://cybersport.com/post/there-is-really-no-trust-in-dendi-not-only-from-fans-but-from-players-as-well-na-vi-ceo-on-results-and-plans-for-the-future
"There is really no trust in Dendi, not only from fans but from players as well. We don’t know what to do in this situation right now.”
The whole CIS scene has been talking about this for a few years now. Lost on his stream has said multiple times that NaVi cant get any decent player because NaVi wont part ways with Dendi. Vilat has said the same thing many times too. While it started as a rumor, it proved to be true. Oh wait you needed a statement specifically that captains dont want to join even though its not explicitly stated, its very clear that by players they mean any type of players including captains. You can keep dancing around this all you want.
|
On June 23 2018 22:52 FreakyDroid wrote:https://cybersport.com/post/there-is-really-no-trust-in-dendi-not-only-from-fans-but-from-players-as-well-na-vi-ceo-on-results-and-plans-for-the-future"There is really no trust in Dendi, not only from fans but from players as well. We don’t know what to do in this situation right now.” The whole CIS scene has been talking about this for a few years now. Lost on his stream has said multiple times that NaVi cant get any decent player because NaVi wont part ways with Dendi. Vilat has said the same thing many times too. While it started as a rumor, it proved to be true. Oh wait you needed a statement specifically that captains dont want to join even though its not explicitly stated, its very clear that by players they mean any type of players including captains. You can keep dancing around this all you want.
gottem
|
On June 23 2018 22:52 FreakyDroid wrote:https://cybersport.com/post/there-is-really-no-trust-in-dendi-not-only-from-fans-but-from-players-as-well-na-vi-ceo-on-results-and-plans-for-the-future"There is really no trust in Dendi, not only from fans but from players as well. We don’t know what to do in this situation right now.” The whole CIS scene has been talking about this for a few years now. Lost on his stream has said multiple times that NaVi cant get any decent player because NaVi wont part ways with Dendi. Vilat has said the same thing many times too. While it started as a rumor, it proved to be true. Oh wait you needed a statement specifically that captains dont want to join even though its not explicitly stated, its very clear that by players they mean any type of players including captains. You can keep dancing around this all you want.
I never saw/read this article and I don't watch Lost. All I needed is proof and you give it to me. If you part from the base that everyone read the same you do, you are doing it wrong. I also don't speak russian so the access I have to some sources is pretty poor for my taste. Watching V1lat means nothing to me because I can't understand a word he says.
Thanks for sharing what I needed to know.
|
|
|
Really nice, thanks for sharing.
|
On June 24 2018 00:49 Racket wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2018 22:52 FreakyDroid wrote:https://cybersport.com/post/there-is-really-no-trust-in-dendi-not-only-from-fans-but-from-players-as-well-na-vi-ceo-on-results-and-plans-for-the-future"There is really no trust in Dendi, not only from fans but from players as well. We don’t know what to do in this situation right now.” The whole CIS scene has been talking about this for a few years now. Lost on his stream has said multiple times that NaVi cant get any decent player because NaVi wont part ways with Dendi. Vilat has said the same thing many times too. While it started as a rumor, it proved to be true. Oh wait you needed a statement specifically that captains dont want to join even though its not explicitly stated, its very clear that by players they mean any type of players including captains. You can keep dancing around this all you want. I never saw/read this article and I don't watch Lost. All I needed is proof and you give it to me. If you part from the base that everyone read the same you do, you are doing it wrong. I also don't speak russian so the access I have to some sources is pretty poor for my taste. Watching V1lat means nothing to me because I can't understand a word he says. Thanks for sharing what I needed to know.
This article is from a video that their CEO posted last year. It was posted in this thread too and you commented on that video. I know because you were ignorant of this fact back then too, you also argued with me about the same thing in the same ignorant manner. Perhaps you've forgotten, but since you post here all the time I expected you to know about it.
And here's another article about the thoughts of some of the CIS community are:
https://cybersport.com/post/community-reacts-navi-elimination-ti8-qualifiers
Its nothing but mockery, sadly. I guess they deserve it, but if they are ever going to move forward they need to face this fact, just like you do.
|
On June 24 2018 03:36 FreakyDroid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2018 00:49 Racket wrote:On June 23 2018 22:52 FreakyDroid wrote:https://cybersport.com/post/there-is-really-no-trust-in-dendi-not-only-from-fans-but-from-players-as-well-na-vi-ceo-on-results-and-plans-for-the-future"There is really no trust in Dendi, not only from fans but from players as well. We don’t know what to do in this situation right now.” The whole CIS scene has been talking about this for a few years now. Lost on his stream has said multiple times that NaVi cant get any decent player because NaVi wont part ways with Dendi. Vilat has said the same thing many times too. While it started as a rumor, it proved to be true. Oh wait you needed a statement specifically that captains dont want to join even though its not explicitly stated, its very clear that by players they mean any type of players including captains. You can keep dancing around this all you want. I never saw/read this article and I don't watch Lost. All I needed is proof and you give it to me. If you part from the base that everyone read the same you do, you are doing it wrong. I also don't speak russian so the access I have to some sources is pretty poor for my taste. Watching V1lat means nothing to me because I can't understand a word he says. Thanks for sharing what I needed to know. This article is from a video that their CEO posted last year. It was posted in this thread too and you commented on that video. I know because you were ignorant of this fact back then too, you also argued with me about the same thing in the same ignorant manner. Perhaps you've forgotten, but since you post here all the time I expected you to know about it. And here's another article about the thoughts of some of the CIS community are: https://cybersport.com/post/community-reacts-navi-elimination-ti8-qualifiersIts nothing but mockery, sadly. I guess they deserve it, but if they are ever going to move forward they need to face this fact, just like you do.
I won't check my past posts. I believe you because I may have forgotten it. (Edit: I went throught my posts at the time of the article and found nothing, let me know if you find/know when that was. I want to read what I wrote)
Separating things, I am not apologetic of Dendi. I just think he has what it takes to keep playing the game.
That NaVi's management made a lot of mistakes is clear as water. If none relevant wants to join because they don't trust Dendi anymore and they (the management) still "believe" in him is just another mistake. But it is their mistake, and I separate that from the usual "Dendi should retire" which we so often see.
I am on the complete opposite side on football (I don't want to see a player there anymore and he won't leave) and I know how it feels, but publicly asking him to retire/leave is just stupid. It won't happen, it is up to the management to keep him or keep calling him back.
If we already had this argument before, I won't change my mind. Dendi showed to me he has the skill to play. If the management can't find people for him to play with then they should let him go, and I am completely ok with that.
|
That hurt. Now I really hope he gets back to relevance one way or another, although I'm doubtful.
|
On June 24 2018 20:32 Archeon wrote:That hurt. Now I really hope he gets back to relevance one way or another, although I'm doubtful.
Who knows, maybe Secret implodes and he goes back to Puppey.
|
On June 24 2018 18:24 Racket wrote:
I won't check my past posts. I believe you because I may have forgotten it. (Edit: I went throught my posts at the time of the article and found nothing, let me know if you find/know when that was. I want to read what I wrote)
Separating things, I am not apologetic of Dendi. I just think he has what it takes to keep playing the game.
That NaVi's management made a lot of mistakes is clear as water. If none relevant wants to join because they don't trust Dendi anymore and they (the management) still "believe" in him is just another mistake. But it is their mistake, and I separate that from the usual "Dendi should retire" which we so often see.
I am on the complete opposite side on football (I don't want to see a player there anymore and he won't leave) and I know how it feels, but publicly asking him to retire/leave is just stupid. It won't happen, it is up to the management to keep him or keep calling him back.
If we already had this argument before, I won't change my mind. Dendi showed to me he has the skill to play. If the management can't find people for him to play with then they should let him go, and I am completely ok with that.
Dunno if Dendi has what it takes to play on T1 team, Im not convinced. I actually think that if he doesnt make the next cut, he'll end up like hvost: try 1-2 teams and if it doesnt work out, he'll cave in due to public pressure, which seems to affect him a great deal. But I wont exclude the chance that he might recover from all of this and I think if that's going to happen, he needs to change environment and most importantly his mindset.
|
Dunno if Dendi has what it takes to play on T1 team, Im not convinced. I actually think that if he doesnt make the next cut, he'll end up like hvost: try 1-2 teams and if it doesnt work out, he'll cave in due to public pressure, which seems to affect him a great deal. But I wont exclude the chance that he might recover from all of this and I think if that's going to happen, he needs to change environment and most importantly his mindset.
Seems to happen... https://cybersport.com/post/navi-ceo-says-unlikely-dendi-stays
... Everyone who’s read Danya’s statement and can read between the lines will see that it’s quite unlikely that Dendi [Danil Ishutin] stays. Not just because it’s a decision we can make. Because it’s a decision he can make, too. Sometimes we all need a reboot. For instance, our experience with Zeus [Danylo Teslenko], his playing for Gambit Esports and returning to NaVi later, confirms it....
|
I think its better for everyone if he goes. It will remove a great deal of pressure off of him which hopefully helps him regain his confidence and NaVi can finally rebuild properly as many of the fans have expected all these years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
