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Evil Geniuses Discussion - Page 116

Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion
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Atoissen
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway1737 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-04 07:23:19
August 04 2016 07:22 GMT
#2301
Waking up to this made me so happy!! First day was the only day i couldnt watch. Hope they keep the good play up!!
Bleed Blue!!
“Strength lies not in defense but in attack.”
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-04 07:36:32
August 04 2016 07:30 GMT
#2302
I mean they didn't do that well.

They were never going to be as bad as the haters wanted to believe, but they haven't blown their way back to the top of the power ranking either. They still dropped a game to Wings and PPD got massively outdrafted by OG in game 1.

Really, things are going about as expected, although I admit I'm relieved that Starladder EG did stay at Starladder.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
August 04 2016 07:48 GMT
#2303
I think if you told me that yesterday they would have went 4 and 2 i would have went wow! That is amazing they played arguably the 3 best teams on paper (even though wings look a bit strange right now) to now go into day 2 against TNC and Escape, if we go 3 and 1 here today we are pretty much top 4 which is perfect. Gonna be awesome! Really hope we can 2-0 and at least 1-1 in the games today to secure top 4.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
August 04 2016 10:10 GMT
#2304
On August 04 2016 16:30 Belisarius wrote:
I mean they didn't do that well.

They were never going to be as bad as the haters wanted to believe, but they haven't blown their way back to the top of the power ranking either. They still dropped a game to Wings and PPD got massively outdrafted by OG in game 1.

Really, things are going about as expected, although I admit I'm relieved that Starladder EG did stay at Starladder.


Game 1 wasn't an outdraft by Fly. EG's draft might have been a little harder to pull off, but the synergies were there. OG had to play the Drow + Medusa perfectly. You saw what happened when they weren't together, even when EG was down 15k+ networth.

That game actually turned on 25 hp on Miracle at that Roshan/River fight. If Miracle goes down, EG take that fight 4-1 or so and take Roshan. But it didn't. That was some dang high-level Dota though. Everything was turning on some really tight plays & counter-plays. Was a great watch. (I also thought EG was going to GG out around 30 minutes after that fight they lost near their tier 2s, then I skipped ahead and was going, "wait, they're still in this?". Though OG probably had to get wiped 2 more times to lose that game. Drow + Rax advantage is strong.)

As for "Starladder EG", it's better to make notes right after you've watched something, just so the hindsight effects we all have don't overtake the analysis. It was really clear EG was testing out a few things, and they almost won. (The actual mistake was not banning Alchemist in game 3.)

ppd has been working on re-arranging the Laning to Mid-Game transition most of the year. The EG vs LGD game 3 at Manila Major, in the group stage, was the first time he's really deployed it. But for that version of EG's team-fighting issues, it would have worked as well. (LGD got the absolute best possible outcome of the fight at their Rax, and that was the only way EG lost that game from there.) So with Sumail playing supports as semi-carries from the mid 2 of those 3 games, it opens up new ways of doing things. Though, if they really do pull that out at TI, it's really the Universe hero that will be different.

Though, also something to keep in mind, if EG picks AA as their 3rd pick in a draft, do you know which way it's going? Heck, right now, EG could open Void + AA then 3rd Pick Mirana. Then have a damn good time figuring out who's playing what.

Though I need to point out that Universe needs a better build on Legion. Blademail just ain't working. I think Legion is just too squishy, unless the team is in full on snowball, for it to work. I'd rather see Vanguard into Crimson (or, in a weird game, Abyssal). It just seems like getting the Blademail is where the hero just falls off. Even if it is a really cost effective item.

On August 04 2016 16:48 Pandemona wrote:
I think if you told me that yesterday they would have went 4 and 2 i would have went wow! That is amazing they played arguably the 3 best teams on paper (even though wings look a bit strange right now) to now go into day 2 against TNC and Escape, if we go 3 and 1 here today we are pretty much top 4 which is perfect. Gonna be awesome! Really hope we can 2-0 and at least 1-1 in the games today to secure top 4.


EG had a great day. Dota is a game where you're going to lose games. The best drafts can get destroyed by odd things during the laning stage. (Especially with RNG heroes around) Seemingly terrible drafts can snowball & win games. So what's really important is how EG both prepared and how they played. And they looked good. Even their Roshan Pit fighting was better than normal.

3-1 today would put them at 7-3, leaving them needing 1 game off of LGD & Alliance to secure a spot in the Top 4. 4-0 would mean 8-2 and their spot is like >90% likely.

On Wings, you can never trust them. They get advantages by playing a wide variety of approaches, but at a major LAN they're going to be at a disadvantage. They're a Bo1 team, as what's really important is preparing for them. As the viable picks settle in the Meta, we should expect them to fall off. This is why all of the hype for them is always overplayed. They could do okay, but think more of MVP last year. That's been their ceiling at a serious event all year.
Gaial
Profile Joined May 2014
United States313 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-04 11:16:19
August 04 2016 11:15 GMT
#2305
On August 04 2016 16:30 Belisarius wrote:
I mean they didn't do that well.

They were never going to be as bad as the haters wanted to believe, but they haven't blown their way back to the top of the power ranking either. They still dropped a game to Wings and PPD got massively outdrafted by OG in game 1.

Really, things are going about as expected, although I admit I'm relieved that Starladder EG did stay at Starladder.


They did very well. In SL, EG couldn't beat NaVi, now EG 2-0'd them AND split against OG and Wings. Saying that a week ago would mean you'd be insane. I believe the expectation was EG to go 2-4 on Day 1, splitting vs Na'Vi, then drawing 1-1 against Wings/OG, and getting 2-0'd by the other.

How did you guys like PPD taking a page out of Wings' book, and pick Viper to counter a Huskar?
spudde123
Profile Joined February 2012
4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-04 11:42:03
August 04 2016 11:38 GMT
#2306
In those SL "support hero" mid games the first game they did that with Oracle they picked it last to have a very favorable lane, the hero was supposed to help deal with Bat and Ember, and they already had Jugg, BM and Timber picked as 3 farmers. It was a nice idea for a hero and easily the most efficient way to spend the early game to get maximum levels and gold off the map with BM jungling. In the AA game going into the last pick they had only Chrono to catch QoP and needed a hero that has a solid shorter cd stun or silence. Again they already had 2 pretty farmy heroes in Void and Weaver picked. Not sure if they thought they might have laning issues if they ran AA and SD as supports and picked Puck mid or something. Friends had Wisp+Ogre running around, none of EG's heroes could really utilize the jungle efficiently, so I think they wanted to somewhat stabilize the side lanes and just throw the AA mid. Though with SD coming to help it was a decent combo.

I don't think the picks were really that clowny. Though of course it's nice some EG players can sort of play whatever and you may be able to sneak in some weird last pick the enemy doesn't expect. For example I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we at some point see EG show Universe's hero that can jungle and some others early on and then last pick a Zai Brood.

Concerning LC I think a lot of people like Armlet on her. Blademail is really good for killing people if you catch them somewhat isolated in a duel, but it feels a bit underwhelming at times in fights as typically the enemy team has something to save the guy in duel and after that Blademail doesn't help the team that much. Though I think probably the bigger thing is that LC is just a hard hero to pull off in a regular game as it goes later and the game is even. I think the hero is at its strongest when you can get some early kills and just 4-5 man towers, playing around the heal and your nuke in those early fights. If you are relying on the LC to do well later on in 5v5 fights you are probably going to be disappointed.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
August 04 2016 13:18 GMT
#2307
On the LC, personally, pretty much anything besides Blademail. Vanguard -> Crimson would help support the rest of the team. The farm needs to not fall off as hard, which, honestly, I'd love to see a Radiance. (Given the way you always jump in first, the miss-chance + damage could be really useful. Or mess up blink daggers, depending on the rest of the heroes in the game.)

But I also doubt we'll see LC from EG again. Even if Universe actually does make it look useful, haha.

The one interesting trend, which I'm happy to see, is EG putting Universe on a core that does damage into the late game. Though OG banned 5 of Universe's heroes and still lost, I quite like the place that puts ppd's ability to use Universe. The Offlane Whisperer is working.
Gaial
Profile Joined May 2014
United States313 Posts
August 04 2016 21:25 GMT
#2308
Fear with a dominant LC performace.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
August 04 2016 21:43 GMT
#2309
So good <3
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
August 04 2016 21:46 GMT
#2310
Think mathematically we need 1 point and we are through. I'll take anything though so good! BLEED BLUE
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
August 04 2016 21:53 GMT
#2311
criiiiiiinge
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
August 04 2016 21:53 GMT
#2312
LMFAO miss all the dc games nvm this owns
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
August 04 2016 21:55 GMT
#2313
On August 05 2016 06:46 Pandemona wrote:
Think mathematically we need 1 point and we are through. I'll take anything though so good! BLEED BLUE


1 will lock it up. Would have to run a full analysis to see if they're actually mathematically in at this point, but I think they might be locked to at least a tie-breaker.
the bear jew
Profile Joined August 2014
United States3674 Posts
August 04 2016 22:03 GMT
#2314
GG WP EG. Really turning it up for TI, did not expect it quite like this, but I am happy for you. If this is Fear's last rodeo, I have a feeling he's going out in style.
DeMoN pulled off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
August 04 2016 22:19 GMT
#2315
On August 05 2016 06:25 Gaial wrote:
Fear with a dominant LC performace.

As if my pubs weren't flooded with LC already
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-04 23:04:40
August 04 2016 22:29 GMT
#2316
Okay, there is a scenario that EG would be #5 in group, but it's insanely unlikely to happen.

Basically, TNC & Alliance both have to go 4-0 on the day. A single map loss for either team and EG is at least is in a tie-breaker situation. And, obviously, a single map win, especially against Alliance, and EG are through.

As for the group in general, 9 Wins is the "we're through!" stage. With Escape being 1-9, it means the rest of the teams have extra wins which get cancelled out.
Atoissen
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway1737 Posts
August 05 2016 09:18 GMT
#2317
I think the boys are playing better and better... Standard EG ofc I think most teams are going to be afraid of playing EG at this stage...
Sumail is full beastmode this far, love it

First two-time winners of TI!! Believe :D
“Strength lies not in defense but in attack.”
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
August 05 2016 09:42 GMT
#2318
Today is last day guys! EG vs Alliance to round off the group oh boy LGD should be a very interesting game, by all means they looked rather poor yesterday or tilted very early, but Day one they looked good. Will be an interesting game as there style looked rather like ours back in Manila but that was when we were with Aui and Bulba and not Unigod and Zai. Hoping for some wisp plays vs them!
2-0 vs LGD the dream so we can relax vs Alliance, maybe try a few things or even just enjoy ourselves into the break before the knockout phase!
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
August 05 2016 10:34 GMT
#2319
I do appreciate that whoever made the schedule for the Group Stage put some fan anticipated games as the last of the group stage. It always makes games, even if one team has already made it through, just a little bit better at the end of a group stage.

There are 24 possible final standing states (3 outcomes x 8 matches = 24 possible outcomes), and there's only 1 in which EG doesn't make tie-breakers. Interestingly, an OG 2-0 over TNC puts EG through, regardless of what happens with LGD. (Prevents TNC from getting to 8 wins.) Or Synderen could pull a miracle and 2-0 Alliance, lol.

We could see tie-breakers at 7-7, given the matchups left. I just hope we don't get the full chaos result. Though it would be funny.

"Full Chaos"

Series 11:

LGD 1-1 EG
Alliance 2-0 Escape
TNC 2-0 OG
Wings 1-1 Na'Vi

Series 12:

Alliance 0-2 EG
TNC 0-2 Escape
OG 0-2 Na'Vi
Wings 0-2 LGD

Standing:

EG 11-3
Wings 7-7
Alliance 7-7
TNC 7-7
OG 7-7
LGD 7-7
Na'Vi 7-7
Escape 3-11


So there's roughly a 4% chance (irrespective of skill) for a 6-way tie-breaker.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-05 10:39:42
August 05 2016 10:39 GMT
#2320
Hope you right Taf :D wouldn't mind seeing all those team sweating it out. However the TNC 0-2 Escape seems a bit .... interesting xD
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
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