Zephyr Discussion
Forum Index > Dota 2 Player & Team Discussion |
OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
| ||
beesinyoface
2450 Posts
gogo eosin | ||
Tyrrhus
Netherlands52 Posts
| ||
Lidless.873
1 Post
| ||
opterown
Australia54649 Posts
| ||
weiliem
2049 Posts
| ||
opterown
Australia54649 Posts
| ||
weiliem
2049 Posts
On May 14 2014 22:41 opterown wrote: i dno i think that SEA is stronger than NA lol That is exactly what I meant. you're cutting off a SEA spot because an NA team went there for their qualifier. If TI4 is just for all the strongest teams in the world instead of strongest teams within certain regions, then all spots should have been invites and there should be no regional qualifiers. | ||
jukesmaster
Canada16 Posts
On May 14 2014 22:32 weiliem wrote: Y can a western team travel to Korea and get to play the qualifiers there where competition is so much less? This is so unfair to the SEA teams. If teams like Dog or Liquid went to play in the SEA qualifers, they will in no doubt qualify and there will then be no SEA team qualifying for TI4.... Scythe is probably the strongest competition there. If Zephyr advance instead, I will be so disappointed.... I actually don't wanna see Zephyr @ TI4 because of this too... :x | ||
bardtown
England2313 Posts
On May 15 2014 01:14 weiliem wrote: That is exactly what I meant. you're cutting off a SEA spot because an NA team went there for their qualifier. If TI4 is just for all the strongest teams in the world instead of strongest teams within certain regions, then all spots should have been invites and there should be no regional qualifiers. The BEST teams are already invited. They will be there no matter what. Now Valve want to have some representation from everywhere to ensure interest from fans all over the world. I think Zephyr would have a really good shot in NA qualifiers, but in SEA I think they have no chance. I think it's a mistake from Valve - not because an SEA team is missing out (I don't think there's another SEA team that can challenge the current invites for the spot), but because one of the best NA teams now has little chance to qualify because they're playing in a region which is above the level of their home region. Still wish them the best . | ||
sfasdfasdf
Canada176 Posts
On May 15 2014 01:19 jukesmaster wrote: I actually don't wanna see Zephyr @ TI4 because of this too... :x I don't want to see them cause they're gonna come in 16th and everyone's gonna be sad about it. | ||
weiliem
2049 Posts
On May 15 2014 03:05 bardtown wrote: The BEST teams are already invited. They will be there no matter what. Now Valve want to have some representation from everywhere to ensure interest from fans all over the world. I think Zephyr would have a really good shot in NA qualifiers, but in SEA I think they have no chance. I think it's a mistake from Valve - not because an SEA team is missing out (I don't think there's another SEA team that can challenge the current invites for the spot), but because one of the best NA teams now has little chance to qualify because they're playing in a region which is above the level of their home region. Still wish them the best . Thats the point. There should be representatives from all around the world. I don't know if they are one of the best NA team right now but it's a SEA qualifier, there should be a SEA team qualifying for it, not an NA team that plays in SEA..... I would rather watch MUFC getting raped than watching Zephyr qualifying for SEA.... | ||
Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
I wouldn't be surprise if they don't qualify. Also MVP is improving greatly. | ||
TripTrip
United Kingdom52 Posts
| ||
lilopuppy
Philippines542 Posts
| ||
synapse
China13814 Posts
| ||
TripTrip
United Kingdom52 Posts
On May 16 2014 19:27 synapse wrote: win 2 or 3 games in qualies and consider that a success imo Well they might have a chance vs Execration :D | ||
Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On May 15 2014 03:05 bardtown wrote: The BEST teams are already invited. They will be there no matter what. Now Valve want to have some representation from everywhere to ensure interest from fans all over the world. I think Zephyr would have a really good shot in NA qualifiers, but in SEA I think they have no chance. I think it's a mistake from Valve - not because an SEA team is missing out (I don't think there's another SEA team that can challenge the current invites for the spot), but because one of the best NA teams now has little chance to qualify because they're playing in a region which is above the level of their home region. Still wish them the best . Hahahaha. I'm sorry but you are so wrong about that. They are bottom of the barrel in any region except if we are talking exclusively about Korea. | ||
cronichazel
United States81 Posts
| ||
AwfuL_
Netherlands6976 Posts
| ||
Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
| ||
Adrian_mx
Mexico1880 Posts
| ||
MyrMindservant
695 Posts
SEA may be weaker than China and EU, but it is still considerably stronger than american division. | ||
dondi
Finland145 Posts
| ||
KristofferAG
Norway25710 Posts
| ||
weiliem
2049 Posts
| ||
Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
LGD.int had a star-studded lineup, a mix of famous/legendary veterans and very talented players. Obviously they're not going to compete in the same environment, and it has nothing to do with "balls". Each of them found an appropriate environment to compete in relative to their skill levels. Also can we get over this topic, it's been beaten to death and nobody is going to say anything that hasn't been said and heard a dozen times before. | ||
Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
On May 17 2014 14:32 Mr. Black wrote: Please keep in mind that although Zephyr is FROM America, they all moved to Korea and are living and training in a team house environment. That takes balls and commitment. They deserve to be at the SEA qualifiers as much as anyone else there. Sure, they aren't performing as well as I would like, but they don't deserve the hate. If they really have the balls they should have stayed in the US and play western dota rather than going to Korea where the scene is very young and grab ez pz cash. | ||
Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On May 17 2014 19:02 MyrMindservant wrote: Heh, if you are calling SEA a "noob division", then how would you call NA? SEA may be weaker than China and EU, but it is still considerably stronger than american division. When mvp gets second place in your divisions round robin stage it isnt making a great case for being strong, even when compared to NA. | ||
MyrMindservant
695 Posts
On May 17 2014 23:47 Snorkle wrote: When mvp gets second place in your divisions round robin stage it isnt making a great case for being strong, even when compared to NA. Lol? So now because one team managed to preform well for 2 days in one tournament, you are going to denounce the whole region/division as "noob"? How MVP played during last 2 days is completely irrelevant to this discussion. It is incredibly stupid to make any judgments based on such sample size. And there is also a possibility that MVP are doing well because they actually managed to improve a lot. Not because everyone else are so bad. | ||
DucK-
Singapore11444 Posts
On May 17 2014 20:09 Fwizzz wrote: If they really have the balls they should have stayed in the US and play western dota rather than going to Korea where the scene is very young and grab ez pz cash. I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. | ||
Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On May 17 2014 23:47 Snorkle wrote: When mvp gets second place in your divisions round robin stage it isnt making a great case for being strong, even when compared to NA. That's a pretty flawed logic lol. You could then say that when a team with Meracle and xFreedom is near the bottom of the round robin stage, that's making a pretty good case for it being strong. | ||
weiliem
2049 Posts
On May 18 2014 00:58 DucK- wrote: I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. Indeed. | ||
callizer
Australia70 Posts
TI1 top 8: 2 from SEA (#3 Scythe SG, #7/8 MiTH), 0 from NA (Should I say 0.5? OK.Nirvana.int has some NA players) TI2 top 8: 2 from SEA (#5/6 Zenith, #7/8 Orange), 0 from NA TI3 top 8: 1 from SEA (#3 Orange), 1 from NA (#7/8 Team Liquid) | ||
Gotuso
Netherlands733 Posts
On May 18 2014 00:58 DucK- wrote: I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. Isn't the only reason that they are in Korea the fact that 4 friends are there to help out Blitz? AFAIK, Blitz wanted to be on a pro team but there wheren't any opportunities for him in NA. So he took and offer to go to Korea. However things went tits up and Blitz's friend/teammate/only contact left the team after they lost a game to Demon. So Blitz could either stay in a foreign county hoping an opportunity would present itself, or he could go home within a month of making a big decision (basically returning as a failure of some degree). Instead 4 of his friends said "fuck it", went to Korea and formed a team together. I really doubt that "easy money" was their primary motivation. I'm pretty sure Purge even said in one of his vlogs that they money they won will mostly be used to cover their expenses living there. | ||
goody153
43992 Posts
| ||
schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
On May 18 2014 00:58 DucK- wrote: I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. If it was such easy money then why wouldn't a T2 Europe team go over there and grab it? It took investment and a lot of risk to go over there. Also, IMO they are actually helping the Korean scene grow...I doubt that MVP Phoenix would have done as well as they have without Zephyr pushing them in KDL and NSL. | ||
Machz
Costa Rica174 Posts
On May 18 2014 03:07 schmitty9800 wrote: If it was such easy money then why wouldn't a T2 Europe team go over there and grab it? It took investment and a lot of risk to go over there. Also, IMO they are actually helping the Korean scene grow...I doubt that MVP Phoenix would have done as well as they have without Zephyr pushing them in KDL and NSL. Zephyr hasn't done much to develop the Korean Scene. Earning easy money with sub 5k mmr players, and the player with most deaths in TI2 (I'm actually a fan of Bamboe, but come on) won't help the scene that much. Demon going to Korea, and V1lat inviting MVP phoenix to Starladder are actually the triggers for their success. After SL, MVP has beaten Zephyr in all games, if I recall correctly. You don't develop a scene by stealing all the efforts done to develop it. You can take SC2 as an example, were Koreans have actually stopped the foreigner growth by competing in their own turf. I believe you develop a scene with time, effort, tournament infrastructure, and competing against the best, in their turf. FTD 2009 at SMM, could be taken as the trigger for Chinese Development. DTS (ArtStyle, Dread, NS, LoH, Dendi) experience at ESWC and WDC 2010 was the first stone set to build the EU/CIS scene. You can see now how MVP.P had a huge boost in their game after competing at last SL... And Demon helping them to develop at the beginning was actually very helpful. It all takes time, infrastructure, and traveling to compete against the best (Possible getting trashed in the process, but that's were you learn the most). Edit: I actually lowered my tone. There's always a way to learn from any situation, even if it's a bad one. | ||
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22201 Posts
| ||
Nosforit
Canada260 Posts
Zephyr hasn't done much to develop the Korean Scene. Earning easy money with sub 5k mmr players, and the player with most deaths in TI2 (I'm actually a fan of Bamboe, but come on) won't help the scene that much. Demon going to Korea, and V1lat inviting MVP phoenix to Starladder are actually the triggers for their success. After SL, MVP has beaten Zephyr in all games, if I recall correctly. Playing against teams that are better than you will ALWAYS make you better. Demon going to Korea is the same, better players in the scene improves the scene. The fact that MVP has beaten Zephyr several times in a row is more proof of their improvement thanks to Zephyr being there to light a fire under their asses. If MVP is the best team in their scene and they're constantly winning all the tournaments, what motivation is there to get better? You don't develop a scene by stealing all the efforts done to develop it. You can take SC2 as an example, were Koreans have actually stopped the foreigner growth by competing in their own turf. You're absolutely right, Koreans flying in to take foreigner money and then flying out HAS hurt the SC2 scene. However, that's not what Zephyr has done. They've MOVED to the region, are pubbing in that region, scrimming in that region and playing tournaments almost exclusively in that region. A much better analogy would be to the new WCS system whereby you have to have X number of ladder games played in the home server in order to qualify for that WCS. Snute said in an interview that he believes the presence of Korean pros on the Euro ladder has improved the quality of play in Europe. Same applies here. There's no doubt in my mind that Korean teams will get to the level of Euro/Chinese teams eventually. MVP has already proven they can beat SEA's best, and likely compete with NA's A-Class teams as well (the SNAs, Unions, eHugs, even Liquid). But to say that Zephyr's involvement in the scene has done anything but expedite that process is a bit reaching in my opinion. Their motives may not have been to grow a scene, but their presence has done just that regardless. | ||
twl04046
2 Posts
On May 18 2014 02:12 callizer wrote: I don't know how people are getting the impression that NA>SEA. Probably because of MUFC horrible run at TI3 or lack of exposure? Let's sort out the facts: TI1 top 8: 2 from SEA (#3 Scythe SG, #7/8 MiTH), 0 from NA (Should I say 0.5? OK.Nirvana.int has some NA players) TI2 top 8: 2 from SEA (#5/6 Zenith, #7/8 Orange), 0 from NA TI3 top 8: 1 from SEA (#3 Orange), 1 from NA (#7/8 Team Liquid) Agree with you. From the qualifier matches, we could see the differences. I'm agree some of SEA team is unstable and bad performances but in American qualify matches, I see many 'TI3 MUFC' game | ||
xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
Either way, I like purge even if his performance in high profile tournaments is underwhelming. I guess the team has space to develop in the future | ||
Khar
5 Posts
| ||
ReignSupreme.
Australia4123 Posts
I'm sure someone out there does it but they likely don't get many viewers, which just makes it harder to find. | ||
haduken
Australia8267 Posts
| ||
WillS
61 Posts
On May 18 2014 20:34 haduken wrote: Lul @ people thinking NA is better than SEA It may be difficult for people to start to believe that MVP Phoenix and Arrow are on par with Liquid and NAR. | ||
Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On May 18 2014 20:40 WillS wrote: It may be difficult for people to start to believe that MVP Phoenix and Arrow are on par with Liquid and NAR. I'm surprised Liquid managed to put on a strong performance for the qualifiers. If you looked at their games in random tournaments leading up to the quals, I never would have predicted them to beat any non-NA team, except Zephyr maybe. SEA's scene is definitely stronger, or at the very least deeper. This should be evident by looking at the tiebreakers. SNA, Ehug, Union gaming vs Minesky, Mith, Orange (even if orange is a shadow of their ti3 roster, they're still better than most of NA scene). I'd bet on the latter any day of the week. | ||
opterown
Australia54649 Posts
| ||
DucK-
Singapore11444 Posts
| ||
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22201 Posts
| ||
DucK-
Singapore11444 Posts
On July 07 2014 17:24 ahswtini wrote: Because he is a COMMUNITY FIGURE He hasn't had much of a presence in the past year outside of competitive gaming. Players like 7ckngmad at least cast quite often. | ||
FHDH
United States7023 Posts
| ||
evilfatsh1t
Australia8524 Posts
| ||
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
| ||
Animadota
14 Posts
What I usually do is I watch very closely what Corey is doing in team fights. I'm not saying he's the only reason they lose games but his moves are just extremely questionable. I remember a fight in mid where he kept going back and forth in the actual engagement (while everyone was fighting) not being sure whether to attack or not, suddenly decided to fight and literally ran into the enemy team melee heroes (he was playing NP) and got rekt. Just watch him and you'll see what I mean. | ||
Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
| ||
Avs
Korea (North)857 Posts
On September 17 2014 13:55 FHDH wrote: So Merlini is 3-10 on this roster. Has anyone watched the matches and have an idea why they are doing this badly? Poor execution and draft sequence is getting counter drafted too early. In otherwords, they suck at hiding their draft and you can guess their strategy within the first 2 picks or counter their cores with your last two picks. Also, Koreans have gotten so much better so quickly. It's not all on Zephyr. the real question is why were they winning stuff at the beginning Koreans just picked up Dota 2. Zephyr however was comprised of experienced Dota 2 players turned pro. Obviously the team's with more experience were going to win. It's time Zephyr came home and practices in NA. They don't seem to be getting the practice they need in Korea now that they've helped the korean scene get on its feet. If they want to remain in Korea they need to either drasticly improve their teamwork, coordination, strategic tactics, and individual skill or replace players or disband. They are looking worse than a lot of teams right now. On the flip side, they'll be demoted to Tier 2 after this season. They might be able to figure out what they need to improve now that they will be playing against teams that don't completely outclass them. In a way, that might be what they need to focus on where their weak points are. Sometimes you don't learn anything when you get destroyed. | ||
Defessus
United States164 Posts
On September 17 2014 20:36 Avs wrote: On the flip side, they'll be demoted to Tier 2 after this season. They might be able to figure out what they need to improve now that they will be playing against teams that don't completely outclass them. In a way, that might be what they need to focus on where their weak points are. Sometimes you don't learn anything when you get destroyed. My guess is that instead of improving they will mail in the last seaon of KDL, i.e. perform poorly and all be thinking about how fast they can move back to USA. | ||
evilfatsh1t
Australia8524 Posts
On September 17 2014 20:36 Avs wrote: Poor execution and draft sequence is getting counter drafted too early. In otherwords, they suck at hiding their draft and you can guess their strategy within the first 2 picks or counter their cores with your last two picks. Also, Koreans have gotten so much better so quickly. It's not all on Zephyr. Koreans just picked up Dota 2. Zephyr however was comprised of experienced Dota 2 players turned pro. Obviously the team's with more experience were going to win. It's time Zephyr came home and practices in NA. They don't seem to be getting the practice they need in Korea now that they've helped the korean scene get on its feet. If they want to remain in Korea they need to either drasticly improve their teamwork, coordination, strategic tactics, and individual skill or replace players or disband. They are looking worse than a lot of teams right now. On the flip side, they'll be demoted to Tier 2 after this season. They might be able to figure out what they need to improve now that they will be playing against teams that don't completely outclass them. In a way, that might be what they need to focus on where their weak points are. Sometimes you don't learn anything when you get destroyed. this is false. the korean scene was new. the players were not most of the active korean players then and now are people who have played dota for years, either from overseas or in korea. the only 2 players that were better than the majority of the korean scene were corey and bamboe, the rest were on par or worse than korean players. this is why i still dont understand how 2 players managed to carry zephyr through nsl3 | ||
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22201 Posts
| ||
Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
Blitz can be a very good caster if he continues. :D | ||
Raithed
China7077 Posts
| ||
| ||