EPTZephyr Discussion - Page 2
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
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Adrian_mx
Mexico1880 Posts
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MyrMindservant
695 Posts
SEA may be weaker than China and EU, but it is still considerably stronger than american division. | ||
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dondi
Finland145 Posts
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KristofferAG
Norway25712 Posts
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weiliem
2071 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
LGD.int had a star-studded lineup, a mix of famous/legendary veterans and very talented players. Obviously they're not going to compete in the same environment, and it has nothing to do with "balls". Each of them found an appropriate environment to compete in relative to their skill levels. Also can we get over this topic, it's been beaten to death and nobody is going to say anything that hasn't been said and heard a dozen times before. | ||
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Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
On May 17 2014 14:32 Mr. Black wrote: Please keep in mind that although Zephyr is FROM America, they all moved to Korea and are living and training in a team house environment. That takes balls and commitment. They deserve to be at the SEA qualifiers as much as anyone else there. Sure, they aren't performing as well as I would like, but they don't deserve the hate. If they really have the balls they should have stayed in the US and play western dota rather than going to Korea where the scene is very young and grab ez pz cash. | ||
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On May 17 2014 19:02 MyrMindservant wrote: Heh, if you are calling SEA a "noob division", then how would you call NA? SEA may be weaker than China and EU, but it is still considerably stronger than american division. When mvp gets second place in your divisions round robin stage it isnt making a great case for being strong, even when compared to NA. | ||
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MyrMindservant
695 Posts
On May 17 2014 23:47 Snorkle wrote: When mvp gets second place in your divisions round robin stage it isnt making a great case for being strong, even when compared to NA. Lol? So now because one team managed to preform well for 2 days in one tournament, you are going to denounce the whole region/division as "noob"? How MVP played during last 2 days is completely irrelevant to this discussion. It is incredibly stupid to make any judgments based on such sample size. And there is also a possibility that MVP are doing well because they actually managed to improve a lot. Not because everyone else are so bad. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On May 17 2014 20:09 Fwizzz wrote: If they really have the balls they should have stayed in the US and play western dota rather than going to Korea where the scene is very young and grab ez pz cash. I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On May 17 2014 23:47 Snorkle wrote: When mvp gets second place in your divisions round robin stage it isnt making a great case for being strong, even when compared to NA. That's a pretty flawed logic lol. You could then say that when a team with Meracle and xFreedom is near the bottom of the round robin stage, that's making a pretty good case for it being strong. | ||
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weiliem
2071 Posts
On May 18 2014 00:58 DucK- wrote: I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. Indeed. | ||
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callizer
Australia70 Posts
TI1 top 8: 2 from SEA (#3 Scythe SG, #7/8 MiTH), 0 from NA (Should I say 0.5? OK.Nirvana.int has some NA players) TI2 top 8: 2 from SEA (#5/6 Zenith, #7/8 Orange), 0 from NA TI3 top 8: 1 from SEA (#3 Orange), 1 from NA (#7/8 Team Liquid) | ||
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Gotuso
Netherlands733 Posts
On May 18 2014 00:58 DucK- wrote: I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. Isn't the only reason that they are in Korea the fact that 4 friends are there to help out Blitz? AFAIK, Blitz wanted to be on a pro team but there wheren't any opportunities for him in NA. So he took and offer to go to Korea. However things went tits up and Blitz's friend/teammate/only contact left the team after they lost a game to Demon. So Blitz could either stay in a foreign county hoping an opportunity would present itself, or he could go home within a month of making a big decision (basically returning as a failure of some degree). Instead 4 of his friends said "fuck it", went to Korea and formed a team together. I really doubt that "easy money" was their primary motivation. I'm pretty sure Purge even said in one of his vlogs that they money they won will mostly be used to cover their expenses living there. | ||
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goody153
44110 Posts
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schmitty9800
United States390 Posts
On May 18 2014 00:58 DucK- wrote: I agree. For monetary purposes, it makes perfect sense. If they were however committed in improving as a player/team, they should never had gone to Korea. They made a decision motivated by easy money, and for that I have no respect for them as a dota player. If it was such easy money then why wouldn't a T2 Europe team go over there and grab it? It took investment and a lot of risk to go over there. Also, IMO they are actually helping the Korean scene grow...I doubt that MVP Phoenix would have done as well as they have without Zephyr pushing them in KDL and NSL. | ||
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Machz
Costa Rica174 Posts
On May 18 2014 03:07 schmitty9800 wrote: If it was such easy money then why wouldn't a T2 Europe team go over there and grab it? It took investment and a lot of risk to go over there. Also, IMO they are actually helping the Korean scene grow...I doubt that MVP Phoenix would have done as well as they have without Zephyr pushing them in KDL and NSL. Zephyr hasn't done much to develop the Korean Scene. Earning easy money with sub 5k mmr players, and the player with most deaths in TI2 (I'm actually a fan of Bamboe, but come on) won't help the scene that much. Demon going to Korea, and V1lat inviting MVP phoenix to Starladder are actually the triggers for their success. After SL, MVP has beaten Zephyr in all games, if I recall correctly. You don't develop a scene by stealing all the efforts done to develop it. You can take SC2 as an example, were Koreans have actually stopped the foreigner growth by competing in their own turf. I believe you develop a scene with time, effort, tournament infrastructure, and competing against the best, in their turf. FTD 2009 at SMM, could be taken as the trigger for Chinese Development. DTS (ArtStyle, Dread, NS, LoH, Dendi) experience at ESWC and WDC 2010 was the first stone set to build the EU/CIS scene. You can see now how MVP.P had a huge boost in their game after competing at last SL... And Demon helping them to develop at the beginning was actually very helpful. It all takes time, infrastructure, and traveling to compete against the best (Possible getting trashed in the process, but that's were you learn the most). Edit: I actually lowered my tone. There's always a way to learn from any situation, even if it's a bad one. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Nosforit
Canada260 Posts
Zephyr hasn't done much to develop the Korean Scene. Earning easy money with sub 5k mmr players, and the player with most deaths in TI2 (I'm actually a fan of Bamboe, but come on) won't help the scene that much. Demon going to Korea, and V1lat inviting MVP phoenix to Starladder are actually the triggers for their success. After SL, MVP has beaten Zephyr in all games, if I recall correctly. Playing against teams that are better than you will ALWAYS make you better. Demon going to Korea is the same, better players in the scene improves the scene. The fact that MVP has beaten Zephyr several times in a row is more proof of their improvement thanks to Zephyr being there to light a fire under their asses. If MVP is the best team in their scene and they're constantly winning all the tournaments, what motivation is there to get better? You don't develop a scene by stealing all the efforts done to develop it. You can take SC2 as an example, were Koreans have actually stopped the foreigner growth by competing in their own turf. You're absolutely right, Koreans flying in to take foreigner money and then flying out HAS hurt the SC2 scene. However, that's not what Zephyr has done. They've MOVED to the region, are pubbing in that region, scrimming in that region and playing tournaments almost exclusively in that region. A much better analogy would be to the new WCS system whereby you have to have X number of ladder games played in the home server in order to qualify for that WCS. Snute said in an interview that he believes the presence of Korean pros on the Euro ladder has improved the quality of play in Europe. Same applies here. There's no doubt in my mind that Korean teams will get to the level of Euro/Chinese teams eventually. MVP has already proven they can beat SEA's best, and likely compete with NA's A-Class teams as well (the SNAs, Unions, eHugs, even Liquid). But to say that Zephyr's involvement in the scene has done anything but expedite that process is a bit reaching in my opinion. Their motives may not have been to grow a scene, but their presence has done just that regardless. | ||
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