EPTugly circumstances and it's stupid that level 1 rosh can't really work in TI main stage, but i thought teams already knew this, especially because alliance made a post about it last year. just because vg pulled one on titan in groups doesn't mean you can get one on them in fucking g3 mainstage ugh
Cloud9 Discussion - Page 17
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
ugly circumstances and it's stupid that level 1 rosh can't really work in TI main stage, but i thought teams already knew this, especially because alliance made a post about it last year. just because vg pulled one on titan in groups doesn't mean you can get one on them in fucking g3 mainstage ugh | ||
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hootsushi
Germany3468 Posts
If you stick together and practice as hard as you did the lost months, the sky is the limit boys. TI5 champions confirmed. It's a good day to be a C9 fan. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
On July 21 2014 05:26 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: im relatively certain that vg heard the crowd, but i'm also relatively certain c9 were being dumb for attempting that rosh ugly circumstances and it's stupid that level 1 rosh can't really work in TI main stage, but i thought teams already knew this, especially because alliance made a post about it last year. just because vg pulled one on titan in groups doesn't mean you can get one on them in fucking g3 mainstage ugh I agree. I think it's pretty obvious that the level 1 rosh would've worked in an online setting in this case but you have to know exactly where you are. These are the kind of mistakes that more experienced LAN teams don't make, and it's a shame to see c9 get knocked out when they're playing so well because they got excited about a strat. Still though, it was a great run in TI and c9 showed that they are a top team in the world and possibly best in the west. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On July 21 2014 03:49 inReacH wrote: Pasted from EE thread I had this thought also. Either the crowd or the announcer saying "look look" or whatever was said. In the interview rotk said that he scouted for it and then the team came which is definitely not the case as by the time veno saw them the whole team was already there. C9 didn't need to gamble.. but they could have safely with a deeper observer ward or a scouting (full life) treant. I'm waiting for the video/replay to see exactly the timing of the announcer/crowd's reaction, and the change of movement of the VG heroes.. I hope if there were shenanigans people give it the attention it deserves. But seriously why not put a deeper ward or scout  That's a good point. Maybe someone can watch the interview and give a better translation. The video is up on YouTube. You can't hear the crowd that much but VG change direction EXACTLY as Luminous says "shhh, shhh." I'm guessing he said that in response to noise from the crowd, but someone who was there would know better. What is 100% clear is that this definitely wasn't a case of Veno scouting the rosh, if that's what ROTK actually said, but maybe it wasn't. I can't remember what he said, but I know the translation was a little off. All I recall was that rotk dared to go because he knew he had backup coming. If there is a video on the interview, I can do a full translation. | ||
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NeoRussia
Canada381 Posts
Tobi confirmed for VG fan Or maybe it was Lumi, looking at it again. Either way its kind of stupid, they're supposed to be professional casters, this stuff doesn't happen in Starcraft right? | ||
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yyfpulls
United States2185 Posts
On July 21 2014 06:57 NeoRussia wrote: They turned as soon as Tobi said "dire side, this is a level 1....." Tobi confirmed for VG fan Or maybe it was Lumi, looking at it again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu8VwyyhqR0 Either way its kind of stupid, they're supposed to be professional casters, this stuff doesn't happen in Starcraft right? This happens all the time in sc2. Not every tournament, but it happens. One player goes for a cheese, crowd makes noise, opponent decides to scout earlier, cheese fails. | ||
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uriel-
Singapore1867 Posts
It's entirely possible VG simply changed their minds. Either way there's no way anyone can prove that they received any outside information. C9 took a huge risk at an environment that compounded said risk, and it didn't pay off. The end. | ||
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Gotuso
Netherlands733 Posts
It was a very risky gamble from Cloud 9, one that many felt that they didn't need to take. Especially given the draft. Especially given the fact they just beat them in game 2. Especially since I feel like Cloud 9 can beat any team, they have the potential for it. But who knows, maybe they got scared/nervous/ballsy and felt a lvl 1 Rosh was viable. It wasn't :'( | ||
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
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eekmice
United States373 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
On July 21 2014 17:21 eekmice wrote: I hope the team stays together. Although I'm sure they wanted to go further in the tournament, they're one of the most consistently entertaining teams and out of the box thinkers. I really think that if they played together for 1 more year and tidied up their team fights and coordination, they would be the favorites to win TI5. I completly agree on this. When you see the way they leveled up their play last month, if they stay togther for one more year, and can keep up with motivation (and imo it is the most important point in dota), they are definetly a team that can claim for top2 next year. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On July 21 2014 21:33 Furikawari wrote: I completly agree on this. When you see the way they leveled up their play last month, if they stay togther for one more year, and can keep up with motivation (and imo it is the most important point in dota), they are definetly a team that can claim for top2 next year. Me too, while C9 can be inconsistent they're definitely able to go toe to toe with top teams. Barring the best circumstances you're not going to see teams be able to just flat out win 100% of the time so there's always going to be some situation to the matter and C9 just got edged out on situation this time. Even if you don't think they were good enough to win they were definitely good enough to possibly take 3rd or 4th, it just didn't quite work out. Put it like this... C9 probably got the most respect bans out of anyone in the tournament (Visage mainly but also CW and Meepo later on) and it wasn't Alliance's "ban wisp and NP and they'll lose" it was just a straight up respect ban for a hero combo that C9 didn't need to rely on. Then C9 just goes and pulls out other incredible combos like BH+CW. I really hope they stay together and just keep working on their consistency. | ||
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broodbucket
Australia963 Posts
Likely candidates to leave: bOne7, SingSing Aui might choose to leave but I don't see EE/pld splitting up, and they're the core of the team. Would love to see the team stay together but a bit of a mixup always seems to happen | ||
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Giga
United Kingdom114 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On July 21 2014 22:55 broodbucket wrote: Cloud 9 reshuffle status: moderately likely Likely candidates to leave: bOne7, SingSing Aui might choose to leave but I don't see EE/pld splitting up, and they're the core of the team. Would love to see the team stay together but a bit of a mixup always seems to happen Who would bone7 and SingSing join? Not that I directly disagree (hard to know anyway from the outside), but imo there's not much point to leave to any team unless maybe NaVi blows up and Puppey and Kuroky are looking for new teammates. c9 is a good organization, and there are not many other core groups of players that look more promising for the upcoming year than c9 (which could lure for example SingSing away). The others booting bone7 or SingSing is I think unlikely, as I don't really see many players who they would directly take in if given the chance. As far as Aui is concerned, I'm not sure if he has said anything about what his plans are regarding school. I think he took the past year off, but if he goes back not sure if staying on c9 is viable. Of course this is all assuming that c9 doesn't have any internal issues that force a lineup change. | ||
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hootsushi
Germany3468 Posts
On July 21 2014 23:07 spudde123 wrote: Who would bone7 and SingSing join? Not that I directly disagree (hard to know anyway from the outside), but imo there's not much point to leave to any team unless maybe NaVi blows up and Puppey and Kuroky are looking for new teammates. c9 is a good organization, and there are not many other core groups of players that look more promising for the upcoming year than c9 (which could lure for example SingSing away). The others booting bone7 or SingSing is I think unlikely, as I don't really see many players who they would directly take in if given the chance. As far as Aui is concerned, I'm not sure if he has said anything about what his plans are regarding school. I think he took the past year off, but if he goes back not sure if staying on c9 is viable. Of course this is all assuming that c9 doesn't have any internal issues that force a lineup change. C9 seems to have great chemistry so far, all five have the dedication to scrim day after day for multiple hours, so that is a good sign. Bone7 finally had his breakout performance at LAN events. I honestly don't see anyone leaving unless it's for private reasons. | ||
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
On July 21 2014 23:33 hootsushi wrote: C9 seems to have great chemistry so far, all five have the dedication to scrim day after day for multiple hours, so that is a good sign. Bone7 finally had his breakout performance at LAN events. I honestly don't see anyone leaving unless it's for private reasons. It seems that people overlook the way this team was built. For example, EE said he wanted to play with Sing as he scrimmed against QPad and found Sing to be very dedicated (MLG interview with hot_bid? not sure). When Sing was teamless, he said he would join a new team only if he was sure to play with people highly motivated (you can find this in his streaming thread on TL, wherever it is now ^^). | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On July 21 2014 22:59 Giga wrote: Regardless of if they heard them or not, C9's comp had so much rosh potential it would be stupid to believe VG wouldn't check it. Just not a good decision in the grand scheme of things and not well executed, but oh well, the trials and tribulations of a C9 fan I guess. Sort of, I think there are some mind games there that are interesting. With such an early push line-up and great split pushing backing it up a good start from C9 is really dangerous for VG. Well level 1 Rosh is that good start sure, but that's not the only option. If C9's jungle wasn't warded and C9 played it straight they would have a great farming Enigma with a fast Mek for some really scary pushes (lunar blessing on NP + Enigma creeps, mek to back it up, and split + Eclipse to teamfight). Given the way VG initially moved and C9's draft I think C9 was trying to setup a situation where VG needed to guess if C9 was going to play it straight (in which case warding the jungle was key) or if they were going to level 1 Rosh (in which case they had to counter Rosh). In the end VG chose correctly, but it could have just as easily gone the other way. What if VG spent all that time scouting Rosh then missed out on warding Dire Jungle because C9 wasn't there (or they had warded/scouted and backed out)? C9 would have been in a great position for early game pressure possibly (ES + Veno + Razor is still scary as counter push). With the potential to split push mid/late game if they had early game map control. Also in terms of staying together it's probably worth remembering that C9 has already won enough money this year to basically last another 1 or 1.5 years of playing. They've already pulled in over $700k this 1/2 year alone. So in terms of making other plans or trying to improve their income, any team disruption is likely to be worse for the players than better. Unless they don't get along (which doesn't show in their play ever like it does sometimes with say TL) I can't think of any reason to change the roster. I feel like Na'vi and Alliance have both shown stable rosters/cores are sort of necessary to make a team really shine and with C9 there's not really an obvious weak player that you'd want to single out and get rid off, everyone on the team carried important games during the TI run. You look at a team like C9 and they already have really deadly pocket strats they know how to play around (BH support/BH+CW combo, Visage+Drow, a Meepo capable team, etc.) changing the roster basically throws those things away when C9 could instead just spend time developing an even deeper set of strategies and abilities. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
I wish they would stay together though. Like I said many times before, on their day c9 can beat anybody convincingly. Its just that suddenly wild clown 9 appears so often. The only thing consistent is this inconsistency of which team will show up. | ||
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