EPTStrategy Over Skill: Alliance Ascendant - Page 3
| Forum Index > Dota 2 General |
shad2810
Malaysia2682 Posts
| ||
|
CrugerDK
Denmark323 Posts
| ||
|
Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
 | ||
|
Meldon
Greece128 Posts
| ||
|
Provocateur
Sweden1665 Posts
| ||
|
Norzma
Sweden160 Posts
| ||
TheEmulator
28084 Posts
On December 02 2014 05:53 Meldon wrote: Wow. Awesome but i am too weak to read this in one go. It took the editors many times to sit down and edit this, so no worries  I think the google doc was like 34 pages. | ||
|
Aikin
Austria532 Posts
| ||
|
Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
| ||
|
calippo
Sweden2525 Posts
| ||
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:40 calippo wrote: i miss s4 I'm delighted to see him get to play on secret | ||
|
Axonn
Croatia287 Posts
 . This really was strategy over individual talent. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
The distinction being made is that Strategy is 3rd order skill, whereas Tactics is 2nd order skill and fundamentals is 1st order skill. The fundamentals are your individual talent and on-point execution. Tactics are your combinations and short term decision-making. Strategy would be your draft system and game planning. Your tactics already accounts for team fundamentals. Your strategy already accounts for team tactics. In general, the team with the superior strategy wins. Whether the strategy is the pinnacle of optimization built on top of a tactical foundation that is merely adequate or the strategy is the mindless application of a set of invincible tactics does not matter. | ||
|
Pazuzu
United States632 Posts
| ||
|
Ler
Germany543 Posts
| ||
|
Zea!
9589 Posts
.And btw, no other team has ever been hurt so hard with Patches like them, Icefrog just destroyed their style with Patches, that's unfair. | ||
|
xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
Insanely good analysis, and makes me feel sad that Alliance is currently in such a pitiful state. Just wondering why this article wasn't written last year though, after ti3 when it the memories were still fresh. Reading about (gone) players like dd, ddc, qqq...it's pretty nostalgic | ||
|
totalpigeon
United Kingdom162 Posts
| ||
|
Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:18 TheEmulator wrote: It took the editors many times to sit down and edit this, so no worries I think the google doc was like 34 pages. On December 02 2014 07:42 xAdra wrote: Wow, I did feel that LD has been severely lacking in content since TI4 ended, but it's like the site had a 4 month long constipation and then took the biggest shit of its life (not implying that this article is shit at all). Insanely good analysis, and makes me feel sad that Alliance is currently in such a pitiful state. Just wondering why this article wasn't written last year though, after ti3 when it the memories were still fresh. Reading about (gone) players like dd, ddc, qqq...it's pretty nostalgic I remember sitting down and giving it a first pass about 6 months ago | ||
|
Veles
United States3280 Posts
I won't comment on the drafting as I lack the competitive experience. Alliance did have greedier supports than the competition, with EGM heavily favoring halberd naga/abba, but this isn't the defining element of ti3 alliance. "Greedy" supports and careful farm distribution is really a feature of post ti3 dota, and it is one that is still developing. Bulldog and s4 were the bigger anomalies at the time. Dual core wasn't uncommon but alliance invented the greedy offlane. For the first ~8 minutes of the game, bulldog disrupted the enemy support pulls and keep track of them to prevent surprise rotations. This is another reason alliance supports found themselves wealthier than their opponents. These 8 minutes were enough to acquire a midas, which would prompt a rotation to the jungle. I don't remember if bulldog bought the midas when he was playing LD, but that was his progression with NP. His LD play was more interesting because it was a more precise, timing push orchestrated by the entire team. Once bulldog left the offlane, his team transitioned him to top farm priority. Despite the consistency of this strategy, everyone was caught off guard when the offlane LD reappeared with radiance at ~18 minutes and the deathpush began. Bulldogs contribution can't be understood without remembering the old offlane, and alliance's support play needs to be considered in the context of the "old" chen/enchantress. The recent changes to pushing and kill gold/xp can make us forget that chen used to be one of the strongest heroes in the game due to his contributions between 10-25 minutes. More so than egm's greedy style, it was Akke's junglers that either bought time for Alliance's cores, or worked together with the radiance bear to create the ultimate deathball. Buybacks and Roshan During TI3, alliance's crushing victories were the result of their tactical understanding. Game after game, teams would over extend during midgame teamfights and fall flat after teamwiping to an s4 buyback. Watching a modern game of c9 dota, you are likely to see 2-3 heroes swiftly execute a gank and then immediately blink/tp away. TI3 was a cruder time when teams when full "CIS" and generally preferred to press the advantage rather than safely escape after securing a kill/objective. Alliance abused these tendencies to decisively win a teamfight and take control of the game. The memorable examples of this are fights where a team commits heavily to killing an s4 puck before he can use any spells, but are hopelessly out of position when he buys back and reengages. Buybacks were also used to retain mapcontrol during late game - something that is still done but is now punished by subsequent nerfs. Alliance's approach to roshan was innovative in two ways: they were willing to commit everything to securing roshan and winning the pit fight, and having obtained the aegis alliance would use it to starve and outfarm their opponent. As the original article said, alliance's was able to draft lineups that "peaked later". Based on recent pro interviews, outdrafts may be even more common now due to the overall rise in skill, but during TI3 alliance got away with murder and their opponents often found themselves working on a timer. Going back to the present, Alliances struggles can be understood by considering their old strengths. Bulldog's unique offlane prowess has been reworked Akke's junglers are nerfed out of the game due to secondary changes The original, offlane/safelane dual core is outdated Alliance no longer has a tactical advantage as ti3 gave everyone, including icefrog, a crash course in buybacks and objective gaming | ||
| ||
