• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:38
CEST 17:38
KST 00:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End7Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!44Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO BW General Discussion [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group C CSLAN 4 is Coming! [ASL22] Ro24 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5191 users

Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 10503

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10501 10502 10503 10504 10505 10601 Next
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-25 16:26:19
January 25 2022 16:21 GMT
#210041
On a related note, I suppose that valve is suffering from their own success when it comes to dota and csgo. I imagine that you don't take a job at the best game dev to just work on dota for 10+ years, you want to be on the cutting edge. I can barely work on a project for more than few years before it gets way too tedious. I don't blame valve at all that they don't care about dota anymore. They need to take the csgo route and ditch the international, bring back community funding for individual tournaments and let the scene live or die on it's own.

edit:

In terms of the game itself: fix major bugs and release community tools to allow for map changes and balance changes so that someone who still cares can keep things fresh.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 25 2022 18:17 GMT
#210042
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-25 18:25:14
January 25 2022 18:21 GMT
#210043
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:


Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
January 25 2022 19:43 GMT
#210044
dat new Crossfire RTS game reminded me of KKnD2 Krossfire.

damn that was a fun game to play back then.
passive quaranstream fan
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
January 25 2022 21:31 GMT
#210045
On January 26 2022 03:17 Faruko wrote:
https://twitter.com/blizzard_ent/status/1486038723468795906

they should call it "announced survival game"?
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
January 25 2022 23:39 GMT
#210046
On January 26 2022 06:31 PassiveAce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 03:17 Faruko wrote:
https://twitter.com/blizzard_ent/status/1486038723468795906

they should call it "announced survival game"?

would be in-line with the blizzard quality we've come to expect over the past few years
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
January 25 2022 23:47 GMT
#210047
On January 26 2022 03:21 Faruko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8

Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.


I'm not sure if game dev was ever really about the salary, but I don't know how things were in the 90s. I agree though that you can make more as an indie dev if you have a great game, though it's like that with every "startup", you trade some stability and security for potentially big money.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
quitsmoking02
Profile Joined January 2022
1 Post
Last Edited: 2022-01-26 07:36:25
January 26 2022 07:36 GMT
#210048
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 26 2022 12:54 GMT
#210049
On January 26 2022 08:47 emperorchampion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 03:21 Faruko wrote:
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8

Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.


I'm not sure if game dev was ever really about the salary, but I don't know how things were in the 90s. I agree though that you can make more as an indie dev if you have a great game, though it's like that with every "startup", you trade some stability and security for potentially big money.


I just that until id say early 2010, indie games were kinda hard to distribute, nowadays everyone is doing it so its a lot easier to get your game out
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-26 14:01:45
January 26 2022 13:58 GMT
#210050
On January 26 2022 21:54 Faruko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 08:47 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 26 2022 03:21 Faruko wrote:
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8

Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.


I'm not sure if game dev was ever really about the salary, but I don't know how things were in the 90s. I agree though that you can make more as an indie dev if you have a great game, though it's like that with every "startup", you trade some stability and security for potentially big money.


I just that until id say early 2010, indie games were kinda hard to distribute, nowadays everyone is doing it so its a lot easier to get your game out


Very true, the steam green light program was definitely a game (heh) changer. Also tools like blender, game engines and just general programming knowledge have exploded in the last few years. I imagine that even 10 years ago you had to be a programmer to make a game, with the tools that exist now I don't think you really need to know that much to get started.


edit: I suppose that in the physical game days you could still develop the game independently (assuming you had the skills), then you just had to find a publisher to distribute it. I have no idea what cut the publishers took, but I imagine the standard rate was slightly above the 30% that valve asks for now.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 26 2022 22:11 GMT
#210051
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7754 Posts
January 26 2022 22:14 GMT
#210052
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

yeah they are great

I should finally play LE as well, I only done prologue in ME1 so far
IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 08:53:34
January 27 2022 08:45 GMT
#210053
garrus is the goat
its also perfect for the hardest difficulty cuz hes a sniper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
keoni0369
Profile Joined January 2022
1 Post
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 09:10:20
January 27 2022 09:10 GMT
#210054
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44284 Posts
January 27 2022 10:47 GMT
#210055
Being sick sucks and this is probably covid
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

I really have to play this game at some point. I did enjoy their dragon age franchise
this is a quote
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 27 2022 11:27 GMT
#210056
On January 27 2022 17:45 Erasme wrote:
garrus is the goat
its also perfect for the hardest difficulty cuz hes a sniper


Also this

Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 11:30:46
January 27 2022 11:29 GMT
#210057
rofl i was so sure goinjg full sniper squad was the best but now i gotta try this

On January 27 2022 19:47 goody153 wrote:
Being sick sucks and this is probably covid
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

I really have to play this game at some point. I did enjoy their dragon age franchise


ME is so far above dragon age its not even funny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7754 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 12:37:19
January 27 2022 12:35 GMT
#210058
On January 27 2022 20:27 Faruko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2022 17:45 Erasme wrote:
garrus is the goat
its also perfect for the hardest difficulty cuz hes a sniper


Also this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbB4qfsA14

I tried this out in my last playthrough, it's so stupidly strong I refused to use it lmao. It also works on James and Ashley.
IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
botanicalfarms569
Profile Joined January 2022
1 Post
Last Edited: 2022-01-28 16:19:06
January 28 2022 16:19 GMT
#210059
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 29 2022 15:22 GMT
#210060
On January 27 2022 20:29 Erasme wrote:
rofl i was so sure goinjg full sniper squad was the best but now i gotta try this

Show nested quote +
On January 27 2022 19:47 goody153 wrote:
Being sick sucks and this is probably covid
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

I really have to play this game at some point. I did enjoy their dragon age franchise


ME is so far above dragon age its not even funny

Bioware should have just went full ME world and make spin offs and all that. I can see an Assassin's creed kinda game with Thane, a full action game with Garrus, a game ala star wars squadrons, hell even rts with all the races and what not.

So much wasted potential
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Prev 1 10501 10502 10503 10504 10505 10601 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft481
SteadfastSC 119
BRAT_OK 111
IndyStarCraft 95
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 49813
Calm 5711
Light 1406
Bisu 1341
Shuttle 756
Mini 615
Soma 415
ZerO 329
Soulkey 324
Rush 253
[ Show more ]
Stork 234
Hyuk 214
Snow 214
hero 145
PianO 85
Yoon 61
Mong 50
Liquid`Ret 42
Dewaltoss 41
JYJ 29
Barracks 24
soO 22
sSak 21
Terrorterran 19
Rock 15
zelot 14
Hm[arnc] 14
Free 14
NaDa 13
Noble 10
eros_byul 1
firebathero 0
Dota 2
qojqva4615
Dendi2136
resolut1ontv 143
Counter-Strike
fl0m5804
olofmeister1881
shoxiejesuss1382
x6flipin354
byalli321
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King176
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes263
Other Games
singsing1992
Liquid`RaSZi948
B2W.Neo689
RotterdaM408
Lowko276
DeMusliM255
Liquid`VortiX158
KnowMe50
Chillindude46
Trikslyr34
ZerO(Twitch)19
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 554
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 11
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Shameless 37
• mYiSmile131
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV906
League of Legends
• TFBlade954
Other Games
• Shiphtur13
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 22m
The PondCast
18h 22m
KCM Race Survival
18h 22m
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Escore
1d 18h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Patches Events
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
GSL
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.