• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:42
CEST 03:42
KST 10:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Tulbo's ASL S21 Ro8 Post-Review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Path of Exile OutLive 25 (RTS Game)
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1578 users

Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 10503

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10501 10502 10503 10504 10505 10601 Next
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-25 16:26:19
January 25 2022 16:21 GMT
#210041
On a related note, I suppose that valve is suffering from their own success when it comes to dota and csgo. I imagine that you don't take a job at the best game dev to just work on dota for 10+ years, you want to be on the cutting edge. I can barely work on a project for more than few years before it gets way too tedious. I don't blame valve at all that they don't care about dota anymore. They need to take the csgo route and ditch the international, bring back community funding for individual tournaments and let the scene live or die on it's own.

edit:

In terms of the game itself: fix major bugs and release community tools to allow for map changes and balance changes so that someone who still cares can keep things fresh.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 25 2022 18:17 GMT
#210042
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-25 18:25:14
January 25 2022 18:21 GMT
#210043
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:


Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
January 25 2022 19:43 GMT
#210044
dat new Crossfire RTS game reminded me of KKnD2 Krossfire.

damn that was a fun game to play back then.
passive quaranstream fan
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
January 25 2022 21:31 GMT
#210045
On January 26 2022 03:17 Faruko wrote:
https://twitter.com/blizzard_ent/status/1486038723468795906

they should call it "announced survival game"?
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
January 25 2022 23:39 GMT
#210046
On January 26 2022 06:31 PassiveAce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 03:17 Faruko wrote:
https://twitter.com/blizzard_ent/status/1486038723468795906

they should call it "announced survival game"?

would be in-line with the blizzard quality we've come to expect over the past few years
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
January 25 2022 23:47 GMT
#210047
On January 26 2022 03:21 Faruko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8

Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.


I'm not sure if game dev was ever really about the salary, but I don't know how things were in the 90s. I agree though that you can make more as an indie dev if you have a great game, though it's like that with every "startup", you trade some stability and security for potentially big money.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
quitsmoking02
Profile Joined January 2022
1 Post
Last Edited: 2022-01-26 07:36:25
January 26 2022 07:36 GMT
#210048
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 26 2022 12:54 GMT
#210049
On January 26 2022 08:47 emperorchampion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 03:21 Faruko wrote:
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8

Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.


I'm not sure if game dev was ever really about the salary, but I don't know how things were in the 90s. I agree though that you can make more as an indie dev if you have a great game, though it's like that with every "startup", you trade some stability and security for potentially big money.


I just that until id say early 2010, indie games were kinda hard to distribute, nowadays everyone is doing it so its a lot easier to get your game out
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-26 14:01:45
January 26 2022 13:58 GMT
#210050
On January 26 2022 21:54 Faruko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2022 08:47 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 26 2022 03:21 Faruko wrote:
On January 26 2022 01:14 emperorchampion wrote:
On January 24 2022 00:53 Faruko wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRLNUGmFC8

Well this is just sad


I don't know if "carried", because the game wouldn't exist without turtle rock. But certainly refined. I can believe that the core game loop wasn't really changed after valve got involved.

I think Gabe's quote towards the end about L4D2 sums up my feelings about back 4 blood: why would I get back 4 blood if L4D2 already exists? I think B4B caters to the call of duty crowd that buy games just because they are new and shiny. Of course when you look under the hood and see all the missing features there is no way that turtle rock can compete with the resources and experience at valve.

I think in general so few new game add value to what already exists these days. I really appreciate that valve is one of the companies that tries to innovate when they make new games. Otherwise it's basically just indie devs that are making interesting games.

My personal take about indie games is that, the industry is no longer enticing enough to bring the new brightest minds because Game Developing have not get in times with salaries (probably because paying more while games are having way longer cycles means your budget must go up by a lot)

A hit indie game could make you way more money than working on a big studio for a game, and indie games are doing really well... i do expect the cycle to break a little since we are hitting the points of TOO MANY indie games, meaning not every game is a safe bet.

New minds found a way to generate money for themselves without having to go to a big company.

And with Steam, Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony being so open to bring many indie games to their platform to bolster their offer, its easier than ever.


I'm not sure if game dev was ever really about the salary, but I don't know how things were in the 90s. I agree though that you can make more as an indie dev if you have a great game, though it's like that with every "startup", you trade some stability and security for potentially big money.


I just that until id say early 2010, indie games were kinda hard to distribute, nowadays everyone is doing it so its a lot easier to get your game out


Very true, the steam green light program was definitely a game (heh) changer. Also tools like blender, game engines and just general programming knowledge have exploded in the last few years. I imagine that even 10 years ago you had to be a programmer to make a game, with the tools that exist now I don't think you really need to know that much to get started.


edit: I suppose that in the physical game days you could still develop the game independently (assuming you had the skills), then you just had to find a publisher to distribute it. I have no idea what cut the publishers took, but I imagine the standard rate was slightly above the 30% that valve asks for now.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 26 2022 22:11 GMT
#210051
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7736 Posts
January 26 2022 22:14 GMT
#210052
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

yeah they are great

I should finally play LE as well, I only done prologue in ME1 so far
IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 08:53:34
January 27 2022 08:45 GMT
#210053
garrus is the goat
its also perfect for the hardest difficulty cuz hes a sniper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
keoni0369
Profile Joined January 2022
1 Post
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 09:10:20
January 27 2022 09:10 GMT
#210054
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44274 Posts
January 27 2022 10:47 GMT
#210055
Being sick sucks and this is probably covid
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

I really have to play this game at some point. I did enjoy their dragon age franchise
this is a quote
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 27 2022 11:27 GMT
#210056
On January 27 2022 17:45 Erasme wrote:
garrus is the goat
its also perfect for the hardest difficulty cuz hes a sniper


Also this

Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 11:30:46
January 27 2022 11:29 GMT
#210057
rofl i was so sure goinjg full sniper squad was the best but now i gotta try this

On January 27 2022 19:47 goody153 wrote:
Being sick sucks and this is probably covid
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

I really have to play this game at some point. I did enjoy their dragon age franchise


ME is so far above dragon age its not even funny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
PoulsenB
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland7736 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-01-27 12:37:19
January 27 2022 12:35 GMT
#210058
On January 27 2022 20:27 Faruko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 27 2022 17:45 Erasme wrote:
garrus is the goat
its also perfect for the hardest difficulty cuz hes a sniper


Also this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbB4qfsA14

I tried this out in my last playthrough, it's so stupidly strong I refused to use it lmao. It also works on James and Ashley.
IdrA fan forever <3 || the clueless one || Marci must be protected at all costs
botanicalfarms569
Profile Joined January 2022
1 Post
Last Edited: 2022-01-28 16:19:06
January 28 2022 16:19 GMT
#210059
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Faruko
Profile Joined April 2013
Chile34173 Posts
January 29 2022 15:22 GMT
#210060
On January 27 2022 20:29 Erasme wrote:
rofl i was so sure goinjg full sniper squad was the best but now i gotta try this

Show nested quote +
On January 27 2022 19:47 goody153 wrote:
Being sick sucks and this is probably covid
On January 27 2022 07:11 Faruko wrote:
Replaying ME with the Legendary Edition

Mordin, Garrus and Wrex might be the best companions ever, especially mordin

I really have to play this game at some point. I did enjoy their dragon age franchise


ME is so far above dragon age its not even funny

Bioware should have just went full ME world and make spin offs and all that. I can see an Assassin's creed kinda game with Thane, a full action game with Garrus, a game ala star wars squadrons, hell even rts with all the races and what not.

So much wasted potential
Ross was right // "Jesus Christ nahaz is doing shots before my eyes" (Sn0_Man, 2018)
Prev 1 10501 10502 10503 10504 10505 10601 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2026 GSL S1: Ro8 Group B
CranKy Ducklings119
EnkiAlexander 71
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 180
Ketroc 84
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3964
Backho 109
NaDa 32
Dota 2
monkeys_forever589
LuMiX0
League of Legends
Doublelift4623
JimRising 602
Other Games
summit1g9443
tarik_tv8368
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3154
BasetradeTV310
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 100
• musti20045 29
• davetesta28
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21246
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8h 18m
RSL Revival
8h 18m
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
10h 18m
ByuN vs Rogue
Solar vs Ryung
Zoun vs Percival
Cure vs SHIN
BSL
17h 18m
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
1d 6h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 8h
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
1d 10h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 14h
OSC
1d 22h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.