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General Discussion - Page 98

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13197 Posts
February 05 2012 23:46 GMT
#1941
dat deso mana-burn
Hates Fun🤔
Hoban
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1600 Posts
February 06 2012 01:17 GMT
#1942
I guess the moral is, pick a carry in low-elo games. Never making that mistake again.
"I am a leaf on the wind."
Ruken
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States858 Posts
February 06 2012 01:20 GMT
#1943
So I come from league of legends and just started playing this game. Can you really not see anyone's but your own creep score?
MIK Terran
Imbajoe
Profile Joined September 2010
United States857 Posts
February 06 2012 01:27 GMT
#1944
On February 06 2012 10:20 Ruken wrote:
So I come from league of legends and just started playing this game. Can you really not see anyone's but your own creep score?


Yes
i wear a kitten scarf
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
February 06 2012 01:34 GMT
#1945
Dark seer produce amazing games :D
And his veto opens a lot of strats !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
February 06 2012 01:51 GMT
#1946
On February 05 2012 21:01 NB wrote:
ok i think i want to know this: how many times out of all of your loses have you blame yourself? Like you understand the lose was your own fault, not your team not enemy team but YOU! Give me the %


Out of all the games I have played I never think that I have caused my team to lose. But every time, that same loss could have been a win if I had played better. Does that make sense? :O
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
February 06 2012 01:55 GMT
#1947
On February 06 2012 10:17 Hoban wrote:
I guess the moral is, pick a carry in low-elo games. Never making that mistake again.

Nah, you can't do that.

Low-elo people are going to pick a lineup of Razor Void Spectre Antimage, and you're not going to want to pick a carry to accompany that.

In my opinion the way to go if you're in low elo but way better than the people you're playing with is to play a strong ganker semi-carry solo mid and just dominate your lane, gank, and dominate the game. Passive farming with a Void for 45min isn't too useful if they push all your towers by 20min because you have no early game.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Hoban
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1600 Posts
February 06 2012 02:00 GMT
#1948
I think I can make enchantress mid work. She is probably my favorite ganker/semi-carry
"I am a leaf on the wind."
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
February 06 2012 02:05 GMT
#1949
On February 06 2012 11:00 Hoban wrote:
I think I can make enchantress mid work. She is probably my favorite ganker/semi-carry

Enchantress mid btw used to be a very common pub build, those impetus are amazing and along with enchant give you a ton of super easy kills. Then just need a Force Staff and you'll finish people off at half hp
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Hoban
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1600 Posts
February 06 2012 02:20 GMT
#1950
I saw LINK go force staff blink dagger. Total cheese but it was funny. I generally rush aghanims but ill try force first and take mid. It sounds like fun! I need to practice my shift queuing skills.
"I am a leaf on the wind."
TheWarbler
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1659 Posts
February 06 2012 05:03 GMT
#1951
On February 06 2012 11:20 Hoban wrote:
I saw LINK go force staff blink dagger. Total cheese but it was funny. I generally rush aghanims but ill try force first and take mid. It sounds like fun! I need to practice my shift queuing skills.


Why would you need to shift que for enchantress?
if you can believe you can concieve
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
February 06 2012 05:07 GMT
#1952
I guess its so you can fire off an attack then instantly blink/force away. You don't need it, but it can help get those extra few point of damage in.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
February 06 2012 05:26 GMT
#1953
On February 06 2012 14:07 LAN-f34r wrote:
I guess its so you can fire off an attack then instantly blink/force away. You don't need it, but it can help get those extra few point of damage in.

I'm bored so let's figure out some theoretical damage.

It definitely helps that Enchantress has a relatively slow projectile speed (900). If you're attacking from the max 550 and an opponent is running away at 50% movespeed (let's say 180), turn and force staff yourself away (600 over .3 seconds) and then blink the max 1200...

First, time projectile will travel in the air:
900x = 550 + 180x
720x = 550
x = .764 seconds

Therefore projectile travels .764 x 900 = 688 distance.
Force staff + Blink can get you another 1800 distance.

So you're approaching the theoretical cap of 2500 units with this (don't need to shift queue but you still have to be relatively fast to throw projectile, animation cancel, turn around, force staff, blink 1200 away)... which translates into 375/500/625 pure damage on top of the physical hit.

Ridiculous.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
February 06 2012 05:50 GMT
#1954
On February 06 2012 14:26 flamewheel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 14:07 LAN-f34r wrote:
I guess its so you can fire off an attack then instantly blink/force away. You don't need it, but it can help get those extra few point of damage in.

I'm bored so let's figure out some theoretical damage.

It definitely helps that Enchantress has a relatively slow projectile speed (900). If you're attacking from the max 550 and an opponent is running away at 50% movespeed (let's say 180), turn and force staff yourself away (600 over .3 seconds) and then blink the max 1200...

First, time projectile will travel in the air:
900x = 550 + 180x
720x = 550
x = .764 seconds

Therefore projectile travels .764 x 900 = 688 distance.
Force staff + Blink can get you another 1800 distance.

So you're approaching the theoretical cap of 2500 units with this (don't need to shift queue but you still have to be relatively fast to throw projectile, animation cancel, turn around, force staff, blink 1200 away)... which translates into 375/500/625 pure damage on top of the physical hit.

Ridiculous.

except it costs 4350 for those two items..
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
February 06 2012 05:55 GMT
#1955
On February 06 2012 14:50 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 14:26 flamewheel wrote:
On February 06 2012 14:07 LAN-f34r wrote:
I guess its so you can fire off an attack then instantly blink/force away. You don't need it, but it can help get those extra few point of damage in.

I'm bored so let's figure out some theoretical damage.

It definitely helps that Enchantress has a relatively slow projectile speed (900). If you're attacking from the max 550 and an opponent is running away at 50% movespeed (let's say 180), turn and force staff yourself away (600 over .3 seconds) and then blink the max 1200...

First, time projectile will travel in the air:
900x = 550 + 180x
720x = 550
x = .764 seconds

Therefore projectile travels .764 x 900 = 688 distance.
Force staff + Blink can get you another 1800 distance.

So you're approaching the theoretical cap of 2500 units with this (don't need to shift queue but you still have to be relatively fast to throw projectile, animation cancel, turn around, force staff, blink 1200 away)... which translates into 375/500/625 pure damage on top of the physical hit.

Ridiculous.

except it costs 4350 for those two items..

I'm not saying it's practical; I'm simply expounding upon the given possibility.

Aghanim's costs 4200, making range 715.

900x = 715 + 180x
720x = 715
x = .993
.993 x 900 = 894. then there's your 15/20/25% on top of that...

Obviously you go for that, but for "instagib" builds force staff + dagger is still funny.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-06 05:57:27
February 06 2012 05:56 GMT
#1956
I wouldn't get blink, too gimmicky in my opinion and it's not so useful on her otherwise, force staff should always be core though


By the way I can't wait until Terrorblade comes out so that I can start trolling people with a Blink Dagger + Abyssal Blade build.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
February 06 2012 05:56 GMT
#1957
On February 06 2012 14:26 flamewheel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 14:07 LAN-f34r wrote:
I guess its so you can fire off an attack then instantly blink/force away. You don't need it, but it can help get those extra few point of damage in.

I'm bored so let's figure out some theoretical damage.

It definitely helps that Enchantress has a relatively slow projectile speed (900). If you're attacking from the max 550 and an opponent is running away at 50% movespeed (let's say 180), turn and force staff yourself away (600 over .3 seconds) and then blink the max 1200...

First, time projectile will travel in the air:
900x = 550 + 180x
720x = 550
x = .764 seconds

Therefore projectile travels .764 x 900 = 688 distance.
Force staff + Blink can get you another 1800 distance.

So you're approaching the theoretical cap of 2500 units with this (don't need to shift queue but you still have to be relatively fast to throw projectile, animation cancel, turn around, force staff, blink 1200 away)... which translates into 375/500/625 pure damage on top of the physical hit.

Ridiculous.


Well when you think about it, you need blink and force staff, which is like 4000 gold. Compare that with lina's ult with ags, which doesn't need to you teleport all the way across the map away from your target, and while it isn't true damage, as long as your opponent isn't AM with pipe, it probably does similar, if not more damage.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
February 06 2012 05:58 GMT
#1958
On February 06 2012 14:56 LAN-f34r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2012 14:26 flamewheel wrote:
On February 06 2012 14:07 LAN-f34r wrote:
I guess its so you can fire off an attack then instantly blink/force away. You don't need it, but it can help get those extra few point of damage in.

I'm bored so let's figure out some theoretical damage.

It definitely helps that Enchantress has a relatively slow projectile speed (900). If you're attacking from the max 550 and an opponent is running away at 50% movespeed (let's say 180), turn and force staff yourself away (600 over .3 seconds) and then blink the max 1200...

First, time projectile will travel in the air:
900x = 550 + 180x
720x = 550
x = .764 seconds

Therefore projectile travels .764 x 900 = 688 distance.
Force staff + Blink can get you another 1800 distance.

So you're approaching the theoretical cap of 2500 units with this (don't need to shift queue but you still have to be relatively fast to throw projectile, animation cancel, turn around, force staff, blink 1200 away)... which translates into 375/500/625 pure damage on top of the physical hit.

Ridiculous.


Well when you think about it, you need blink and force staff, which is like 4000 gold. Compare that with lina's ult with ags, which doesn't need to you teleport all the way across the map away from your target, and while it isn't true damage, as long as your opponent isn't AM with pipe, it probably does similar, if not more damage.

I think you're forgetting the small detail that Enchantress's ulti has no cooldown and she should only use the blink + forcestaff as a finisher
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Hoban
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1600 Posts
February 06 2012 06:15 GMT
#1959
I think it would only be practical to get either a force or a blink. Force staff gives you some stats you like (atk speed and mana) while blink is the ultimate tool to position for fights. Using blink+impetus seems much more of a gimmick then anything. Force allows you to punish someone running from you (if you force staff them after throwing) or get yourself into a better position mid-fight (which is hard to put value on since Enchantress is one of the most positional dependent heroes imo).

Here is my opinion, if you are playing enchantress like a semi-carry then you will be getting decent to good farm. In this case, you can get an early force staff which will make 1v1's and ganks so much more deadly. Then get Aghanims in time for when team fights really start to happen (when it makes the biggest difference). If you are more of a support or under-farmed then I think it is absolutely necessary to skip the force staff in favor of a quicker Aghanims.

I have been trying quick force against computers mid though, I am getting quicker with it but I still cant animation cancel then turn then force staff away fast enough. But then again I am pretty bad so =P I like the mathcraft too though. Adding 125 pure damage from the force staff is a pretty sweet perk.
"I am a leaf on the wind."
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
February 06 2012 06:29 GMT
#1960
Well I don't get this, why would you force staff yourself? if the enemy doesn't run you just keep throwing the ultis and he should be running, when he starts running and is low enough hp you force staff them and walk away yourself =S Seems really strange to use it on yourself. Then again I don't think it's that difficult to just turn around and doubletap the key.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
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