General Discussion - Page 100

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Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

February 07 2012 01:07 GMT

#1981

This is how not to play bat
'

Also, viper is apparently icefrog's cousin. :/. Said he was getting us all banned for being in a low bracket and throwing or something. I lost track of the insults after a while.

Thanks for advice though, that sounds good. I'm just too aggressive or something.

Zlasher

United States9129 Posts

February 07 2012 01:08 GMT

#1982

On February 07 2012 07:51 Kipsate wrote:
CLG Loda huh

meh xP had a nicer ring to it but ill take it, good luck to them.

I've seen worse tags, I mean WW just looks ugly lol, so does GoSu (I'm sorry to all itsgosu staffers but that is probably the ugliest tag in all of esports, the alternating caps and 4 letters is just awful). If there weren't so many iG's around that would be so much better looking.

Congrats to Loda and his team though, good to see they came to terms with a team that can help support them. Having all 5 players from one country can really help them in preparation for The International, which is surely what everyone at and around that teams caliber will be aiming for.

alia

United States294 Posts

February 07 2012 01:25 GMT

#1983

Since my thread got locked on tl, I'm going to post this here. I'm giving away a beta invite Wednesday to promote my channel.
See thread for details:
User was warned for this post

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

February 07 2012 01:43 GMT

#1984

On February 07 2012 09:59 Kznn wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On February 07 2012 07:40 Nevuk wrote:
Batrider. How to build him? In pubs, I mean.

hmmmmm

It depends a LOT. He's a great pubstomper. You can use him in pretty much every single lane. But I recomend it solo mid/long lane. Batrider is not a great carrier, he can kill a lot in early/mid game and disable an important hero late game.

Start out with the usual stout shield/regens if the lane is going to be hard (against double lane) or regens + stats itens if you are going against a solo hero.

your goal inlane is to be the most annoying little fucker EVER. image how annoying a huskar is in lane, ok.. you need to be 10x more annoying. Get napal level 1 and use it EVERY SINGLE TIME. its really annoying and if the your enemy advances a little bit you just uses your firefly and kill him.

You will probably get 1/2 kills in your lane before level 7. If you reach level 7 without anykills, things are going wrong for you already.

Ok, when you get 7 you should have bots + ring of aquila/botle + stout shield + ring. Go gank like a mad man. you can dive towers like no other hero, you can kill 2/3 heroes with just one ally disable. go for it, call your team to help you out on the ganks, take map control, rune control, farm heroes like a balanar.

Your goal is to get dagger + vanguard + whatever bots you want before the 22 minute mark. You can go for dagger before vanguard if your team is killing a lot.

Ok, so mid game is stop farming pretty much, just gank around with smokes and support heroes, and let your carry farm, remember, you are not a carry hero, you do not need farm.

Try getting pipe/forcestaff in the mid game, it helps a lot in big fights and ganks. Go to their jungle and try to kill their carry hero as much as possible. Remember to always use your ultimate on their key heroes (enigma, sandking, big aoe ult heroes or big/fat carriers)

As for the late game, you goal is pretty much the same, slow all their heroes with napal, disable with flamebreaker, ut their key hero and uses firefly to do huge aoe dmg.

A ideal full build batrider would be

Travel
Tarrasque
forcestaff
dagger
shivas
radiance/pipe

BKB is ESSENTIAL for proper initiation mid-lategame. Your ult really loses a lot of effectiveness if you blink in, grab a dude, and then get stunned.

I would get BKB as soon as possible after Blink. I'd only get Vanguard if I absolutely need the HP, and Ogre Axe isn't good enough to hold me over until I finish BKB.

http://www.gosugamers.net/dota/news/17610-xb-at-wdc-all-cards-are-on-the-table
xB is arguably the best Batrider player in the world. The interview linked has a few short paragraphs from him on how to play Bat.

tube

United States1475 Posts

February 07 2012 01:57 GMT

#1985

On February 07 2012 10:07 Nevuk wrote:
This is how not to play bat
'

lol you got bracers
just get vg blink or something

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

February 07 2012 02:42 GMT

#1986

The build I'm trying right now is boots -> wand -> blink -> bkb -> treads. I just can't farm blink til like 25 cuz I feed like crazy, my ck scores aren't really that low, it's just that i'll be like 5-12-5.

(Sometimes i throw in an urn between wand and blink. Yes/no?)

I've managed to progress to this, but admittedly vs worse opponents / with better teammates and a way easier lane (pudge/bat vs solo dk with ds jungle). We killed dk at level 3 or 4 then killed ds when he came to counter gank, then sort of farmed top easily to 9 minute boot/blink and just tp'd around ganking, got a kill or two finished wand/treads. Then I stacked/fireflied jungle camps and used assist gold from team fights to get bkb parts around 26-33. Game was pretty over after that, morph just had too much farm for the other team. (Although it is the first time I've ever seen a morph skip getting morph over stats for the majority of the game. I mean, maxing stun and getting no points in morph)

edit :
Ok, I think I've isolated my problem. Two parts to it : I always take napalm level 1. That's probably not a good idea as a long lane solo 1v3 (which I think bat sucks at, having tried it 4x. I always figured my team would do normal lanes, but a drow ranger just HAD to jungle or etc.). The other - how does one escape from ganks as bat during laning phase? He moves slow and firefly seems to make it harder to juke rather than easier, unless you're in certain positions near cliffs.

drew-chan

Malaysia1517 Posts

February 07 2012 04:41 GMT

#1987

I usually build my bat with some restorative + stout shield to start, and slowly work my way up to a ring of health depending on the lanes.

If facing a trilane or constant ganks I would just lane farm in safe areas and firefly to clear a few neutral camps as the lane gets pushed out of my comfort zone. i feel like having 1 level in his nuke before 7 works well to scout while neutral-ling in the absence of wards (damn pubs).

If the farming goes well I would go straight for dagger but if not, just fly over a vit booster for the vanguard.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

February 07 2012 05:17 GMT

#1988

Yeah, Bat Rider is hard to get the hang of, he is kinda like Storm in a way...he is a hero that thrives off that "killer instinct", but it takes a lot more games to get hang of bat---knowing what you are capable off isn't really straight forward, it just takes a fair few games (and a lot of losses) to know your limits.

I've played Dota for a good few 5years+, but Bat Rider was one of those heroes that I could never quite get to 'click' for the longest time

When I first played Bat (and I'm pretty sure 99% of people who are bad at bat still do this) I used to stack Napalm because...well..because I could, if I was lucky enough to get 5-6 stacks I'd try and fumble my way in with firefly to get kills but there was no real reasoning behind what I was doing other than the fact that it is good to stack napalm on people.

What I suggest (and believe me, this REALLY helped me) is to play a good 5+ games against Bots being incredibly over aggressive..i.e trying to go for kills at lvl2/3 with just napalm and firefly--and don't just wait till you have three/four stacks, just start diving at 1-2 stacks, or even no stacks. Winning the game isn't the objective, but rather learning what you are capable of.

Once you have a decent idea of what you are capable of you will find that your laneing phase will go much more smoothly, bat is more about the mutual respect between the people in the lane. Playing bat well has less to do with getting kills but more to do with the message you send to your opponent, if you ever watch a good bat play it isn't about getting kills but more about how they are controlling their lane. Bats one of those heroes that can be scary in a lane but your opponent can read you just as well as you can read them and no ones scared of a bat that just hangs back and spams napalm

Also, play a game or two where you practice last hitting creeps with Napalm, I swear even with all that bonus damage it isn't as easy as it seems on paper >_>

edit:

What I mean is, Bat is a hero that can be read pretty easily and the problem is that if you aren't a very good Bat Rider or you don't really know what you are capable of, then your opponents gets that message loud and clear just by your actions and will treat you as such

Nevuk

United States16280 Posts

February 07 2012 05:50 GMT

#1989

The only issues I have with napalm lasthitting are at napalm level 3. It just feels very different. I've played probably about 12 games of bat today, and he's a hero that definitely feels very very different after playing him some. He reminds more of tinker than of anyone else, in that his strong harass is there to let him farm rather than necessarily get kills.

Um one sorta thing i'm not sure of - tranquil boots vs treads on bat. Tranquil feel soooo good early but treads seem much better later on

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

February 07 2012 06:16 GMT

#1990

On February 07 2012 14:50 Nevuk wrote:
Um one sorta thing i'm not sure of - tranquil boots vs treads on bat. Tranquil feel soooo good early but treads seem much better later on

IMO you generally don't need to be upgrading your boots at the point in the game where Tranquil boots are good.

PHILtheTANK

United States1834 Posts

February 07 2012 06:25 GMT

#1991

Battlefury Earthshaker viable? I think not.....

[image loading]

First time I got to play shadowfiend with an at least semi competent team. Hes actually a really really fun hero.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

February 07 2012 06:26 GMT

#1992

Tranquil boots aren't bad for those games were you are playing support for the side that is already on the back foot. In games like those, the extra strength/mana usually ends up being meaningless as getting slightly out of position means death and fights don't drag on long enough for mana boots to even have an effect. In times like those, positioning is the most important thing and tranquil gives you that for a cheap pirce

Netherlands12045 Posts

February 07 2012 09:40 GMT

#1993

hmmm im pretty sure people stopped using bat in dota2 bc he was nerf mechanically. I remember reading an interview saying no number pop up from napalm simply mean that there is no invisible detection. Also the range cast is a bit shorter than dota1 due to the lanes are smaller.

but about batrider, its really important to have a good stun support if you are doing side lane. That will allow you do dive much easier. Otherwise if i get a 1v3 1v2 lane i rather play defensively, spam napalm so if they want to dive tower to kill me they will take a ton of dmg from my fire fly. Stop spamming too much if they wand rush, do if their gankers are missing only.

Item just start with shield and up to ring of health. Depend on how much you can farm, how much you die, choose to get vanguard or not. 1k1 is a huge investment stepping into mid game and you have to spend it wisely depend on the players and line up. Dagger is absolutely the core item, i often rush to eul as well for the bonus ms and mana regen. Have never like tread on bat either... the attack speed is useless on initiator.

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34510 Posts

February 07 2012 10:56 GMT

#1994

Does the hook+force staff on pudge trick from dota1 still work in dota2? I don't think it does which makes me sad

lozarian

United Kingdom1043 Posts

February 07 2012 11:51 GMT

#1995

To play bat you need to to have a very specific mentality, it's the "fuck y'all, I am scarier than anything on this map" mentality. From level 2. You go mid, get 2-3 stacks of napalm on the enemy hero, then when they're facing you, firefly then run at them and go balls out. You start killin shit, and don't stop until they beg you to have mercy, and even then it's only to stop and laugh over their burnt, crispy corpses.

If it's level 4, you're batrider, and someone isnt dead yet, you're doing it wrong. Obviously this is easier with someone ganking your lane, but you don't need it, because waiting for help is for pussies, and you're not a pussy, you're a fucking explosive hellfire bat of death. Once you have first blood you have boots. You pop a potion, wait for the fool to come back to the lane, and you do it again. Then you kill his friends, family, and if he has any pets, you kill them too.

LAN-f34r

New Zealand2099 Posts

February 07 2012 12:14 GMT

#1996

On February 07 2012 19:56 Firebolt145 wrote:
Does the hook+force staff on pudge trick from dota1 still work in dota2? I don't think it does which makes me sad

Dw, just get chen to cheer you up