EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 327
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
I just love the mobility that wex gives and how EMP can shut down so many pushes or screw up so many fights early on by draining most of the enemy teams mana. But then again I play a gank heavy style invoker let the hard carries farm up while I just roam and gank to hell after the laning phase ofc. During laning phase I just go mid control runes and gank with Cold snap/tornado. Item build being, GG branch, tango and blade of attack to start. Then I go Phase Boots > Magic Wand > Drums > Force Staff then save for buy backs and buy either an Agha or Sheepstick depending on what is needed. I think I next get the chance I'll try your Extort build and see how it fairs, I've just felt so useless early game when I've tried it before but I'll give it another go :D | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
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Hoban
United States1600 Posts
All this time playing invoker though, I feel like I am starting to pull off some amazing plays. I can definitely see now why he is one of the very best heroes. He can literally do everything and least pretty well. I remember the very first game I had with invoker, I was solo mid against bloodseeker. Man, what hell that was. I think I got dominated for the first 10-15 games mid. In my last 10 games, I don't think I have lost my lane. He is so amazingly powerful at all stages of the game. Anyway, some item choices I really want to try are a) Mana boots on Quas/Exort. My gut tells me treads are always the way to go (attack speed so strong) but I really hate having mana problems. Maybe it will just be a pub build but who knows. b) Blood stone and scepter after boots just for shits and giggles. Then a refresher. Any other item builds that aren't drums+push? Or should I try some divinecourage builds next? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
Another problem is that tornado often hurt more than good bc it give the enemy invulnerability and sometime that reset the cooldown on their escape mechanism. Mean while if you use QE you have a global nuke presence from very early on and strong nuke/ disable into mid game (we have since the perma stun combo Ion shell + cold snap). Landing sunstrike is really easy if you draft strong early disables such as VS, SS or lion/enigma. Another thing that i need to test out myself is the ability to kill rosh early on with forge and medallion. Overall, i prefer QW in pub but if i have a well coordinated team, QE will be the route i choose. | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
http://prodota2.com/ A tournament featuring Asian, European and North American teams | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
On April 03 2012 19:07 NB wrote: as somebody has pointed out earlier, the dmg that EMP dealt in teamfight will soon be negated in high level game by 2-3 mana boot. this is around the 20 mins mark where support get their farm and level up. At this point you want to cut back on W and put more into E as invoker for the dmg out put. An easier way to dealt with this is just not going QW from the first place. Another problem is that tornado often hurt more than good bc it give the enemy invulnerability and sometime that reset the cooldown on their escape mechanism. Mean while if you use QE you have a global nuke presence from very early on and strong nuke/ disable into mid game (we have since the perma stun combo Ion shell + cold snap). Landing sunstrike is really easy if you draft strong early disables such as VS, SS or lion/enigma. Another thing that i need to test out myself is the ability to kill rosh early on with forge and medallion. Overall, i prefer QW in pub but if i have a well coordinated team, QE will be the route i choose. The problem is that shortly after the stage they stop being effected by EMP, some carries start coming out with items. When there are carries on the field you help your team more with disable than damage, so I prefer W > E at this stage as well. The only time I personally would go E > W is if I'm focusing on it early game - otherwise I neglect more than one point until WQ are maxed. Sunstrike is good for ganks, but invoker is a naturally good ganker whether your are sun-striking or walking to a lane to 'nado+snap them. On April 03 2012 18:50 Hoban wrote:Anyway, some item choices I really want to try are a) Mana boots on Quas/Exort. My gut tells me treads are always the way to go (attack speed so strong) but I really hate having mana problems. Maybe it will just be a pub build but who knows. b) Blood stone and scepter after boots just for shits and giggles. Then a refresher. Any other item builds that aren't drums+push? Or should I try some divinecourage builds next? With QE you desperately need extra mobility. I would prioritise phase boots even more on QE builds than QW builds. Also, blink would probably be a good idea on him, since icewall and meteor are very position dependant, and you have terrible base MS. With QW I often forgo force for Euls. Force isn't as useful when you have near-max MS, and Euls fixes my mana problems forever, gives me even more disable, and gives me more MS (I love Euls, but it isn't good in many situations. I take any chance I get to use it, so take this with a grain of salt). | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On April 03 2012 19:07 NB wrote: as somebody has pointed out earlier, the dmg that EMP dealt in teamfight will soon be negated in high level game by 2-3 mana boot. this is around the 20 mins mark where support get their farm and level up. At this point you want to cut back on W and put more into E as invoker for the dmg out put. An easier way to dealt with this is just not going QW from the first place. Another problem is that tornado often hurt more than good bc it give the enemy invulnerability and sometime that reset the cooldown on their escape mechanism. Mean while if you use QE you have a global nuke presence from very early on and strong nuke/ disable into mid game (we have since the perma stun combo Ion shell + cold snap). Landing sunstrike is really easy if you draft strong early disables such as VS, SS or lion/enigma. Another thing that i need to test out myself is the ability to kill rosh early on with forge and medallion. Overall, i prefer QW in pub but if i have a well coordinated team, QE will be the route i choose. Even before this emp nerf, multiple mana boots could always do that, but that never stopped (quas wex) invoker from being first banned for the last two years. If we consider exort invoker to be a distinct hero, my question is whether it's even worth a first ban. I don't think I'd give away lycanthrope for an exort invoker, for instance, but wex invoker just empirically dominated team fights so hard that it's worth considering. | ||
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Hoban
United States1600 Posts
On April 03 2012 21:02 LAN-f34r wrote: The problem is that shortly after the stage they stop being effected by EMP, some carries start coming out with items. When there are carries on the field you help your team more with disable than damage, so I prefer W > E at this stage as well. The only time I personally would go E > W is if I'm focusing on it early game - otherwise I neglect more than one point until WQ are maxed. Sunstrike is good for ganks, but invoker is a naturally good ganker whether your are sun-striking or walking to a lane to 'nado+snap them. With QE you desperately need extra mobility. I would prioritise phase boots even more on QE builds than QW builds. Also, blink would probably be a good idea on him, since icewall and meteor are very position dependant, and you have terrible base MS. With QW I often forgo force for Euls. Force isn't as useful when you have near-max MS, and Euls fixes my mana problems forever, gives me even more disable, and gives me more MS (I love Euls, but it isn't good in many situations. I take any chance I get to use it, so take this with a grain of salt). So how does this sound for an Exort invoker. Bracer/Null -> Phase -> Medallion -> Blink and/or Force. It should allow you to Rosh at lvl 10 really easily. I really hand't thought about medallion on invoker but man, what a great item (I go medallion on almost everyone else lol). Does anyone ever get a bottle on invoker? As far as ganking with Q/E vs Q/W, I find they both have their ups and downs. Q/E the global presence is intimidating to say the least. Even solo queueing, if you are aware of the other lanes you can ensure kills from a mile away. Forge spirits become an annoying force in the lane around level 5-6 and continue to frustrate opponents. You are slow to move for ganks but if you just get phases early then that will help with that problem. With Q/W it is much easier to physically gank other lanes. A well placed tornado can ensure a kill or even a double kill. You have a much better escape mechanism in the form of ghostwalk (though ice wall will get you out of a dive pretty well), and your mobility is intimidating. I think the next few games I will focus on Q/E getting phases and a medallion and go for very early rosh attempts. Any recommendations on starting items? For Q/W I go tangoes+claw but for Q/E I generally go tango+hp pot+branch+circlet+(3 str or 3 int). | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
I'm thoroughly enjoying these videos. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
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Shai
Canada806 Posts
On April 03 2012 19:44 Yoshi- wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TdAZRmTNN0 http://prodota2.com/ A tournament featuring Asian, European and North American teams I'm ready for a certain Australian team to complain profusly about pings. International online tournaments are exciting at first, but painful when you realize only eastern NA and western Europe are actually having a good time. | ||
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Grombidal
Sweden49 Posts
On April 04 2012 01:28 konadora wrote: man playing QE invoker is way too reliant on team's coordination :/ I got this feeling aswell when I tried out invoker for the first time against real people. In the game after my first one I tried QW invoker and it seemed to me to work better since you can easily determine when to engage the enemy. Tornado, emp and then invoke cold snap is such a good innitiation, and alot of the times the opponents get scared and go back after it. tho I think I played it slightly wrong in the way I never realy trained exort until quas and wex was full, so that is something I will change the next time I play invoker. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On April 04 2012 01:46 Grombidal wrote: I got this feeling aswell when I tried out invoker for the first time against real people. In the game after my first one I tried QW invoker and it seemed to me to work better since you can easily determine when to engage the enemy. Tornado, emp and then invoke cold snap is such a good innitiation, and alot of the times the opponents get scared and go back after it. tho I think I played it slightly wrong in the way I never realy trained exort until quas and wex was full, so that is something I will change the next time I play invoker. yeah with QW you are more in control, when i went QE, i couldn't get people to push and/or gank at all :/ forged spirits useless -_- | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
On April 04 2012 01:40 Shai wrote: I'm ready for a certain Australian team to complain profusly about pings. International online tournaments are exciting at first, but painful when you realize only eastern NA and western Europe are actually having a good time. Actually european team have the worst time, they need to play on uswest, which is quite good for teams like al. | ||
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imweakless
757 Posts
interview about why hyhy left mym | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On April 04 2012 02:39 imweakless wrote: http://sylvirspydir.blogspot.com/2012/04/why-mymdota-left-hyhy-breaks-silence.html interview about why hyhy left mym The current Team Zenith DotA2 line up consists of : "hyhy" Han Yong Benedict Lim "iceiceice" Daryl Koh "xfreedom" Nicholas Lim "xy" Toh Wai Hong "ChuaN" Wong Hock Chuan Are chuaN and Tofuboi Chu and Tofu from some years ago ? What I liked more in Dota 1 was when Chu updated his replay thread on playdota. All his replays were amazing <3 | ||
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eluv
United States1251 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
team was invoker od pugna necro and fv vs a bs razor enigma sniper and clockwerk bs and razor goes like 10-0 each early game OD goes afk for 5 mins but we perservere and don't give up, 20 minutes later, we reverse the score from being down around 15 kills to being ahead 10 kills all that aoe with aghanim invoker + chrono = GG | ||
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