EPTOn April 03 2012 09:03 TheWarbler wrote:
The NA dota scene makes me want to strangle myself.
The NA dota scene makes me want to strangle myself.
At least your kittens are safe. I miss Fluffy.
General Discussion - Page 325
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justinpal
United States3810 Posts
At least your kittens are safe. I miss Fluffy. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 03 2012 08:44 5-s wrote: The main issue I see here is that if it's just Demon, Fear, and Bulba, whatever team they make is not going to strictly be better than ItsGosu. Korok won't be joining that team, and Korok + Pig is just as strong as Demon and Fear in Dota 1 (they've probably won more money in Hon than Demon and Fear have in Dota 1). EG has one main benefit though, and that's their resources. They're one of the highest salary teams in Dota 2, and I think that could be quite a draw. If I were Bulba I wouldn't be so fast to jump ship, but maybe they'll make him a good offer. They ARE the highest salary team in Dota2, from what I've heard its actually on a scale above what any other team pays, although I don't know what the eastern european teams like Darer or Navi pay. Don't you think though, that for Bulba, the support you can get from EG, and the popularity that being on EG gives, is a bigger upside than staying on Gosu? Gosu is good but the way they stand, they don't really beat the top tier teams in BO3's so whats that say about their potential at the international 2, which is all that should matter because the other tournaments between now and then are nearly irrelevant in prize money compared to TI2. That said, EG has the resources, unlike any other organization, ESPECIALLY an American organization, to send their team to a LAN like Dreamhack. I don't know the scene nearly as well as you do 5-s but don't you think it would be more attractive and have potential to be supported before, during, and after TI2, as well as do well at TI2 with EG compared to Gosu? Especially if he can bring over two of his teammates (I don't know which ones it might be, but 2 of the other 4) from Gosu to EG?. Don't you think Demon and Fear as well as the support EG gives, would be an upgrade over whatever the bottom two players on GoSu are? What other American players are there of note, that would potentially join a team like this with Fear and Demon, outside of GoSu? | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On April 03 2012 09:03 NB wrote: they wont go all american that for sure... they have learned from all the players they dropped in sc2 squad to get puma JYP... I wouldnt be surprised if they pick up Zenith tbh... SEA is generally cheaper to sponsor as well. It isn't just about skill or how 'cheap' a team is to sponsor. This is EG, money isn't the option its the return on the investment you get. Demon and Fear are extremely popular, and can plug their sponsors well, they get several hundred to a few thousand viewers on their stream. The Zenith guys don't. Also Zenith never plays in touranments that are seen by north american audiences, due to lag. Yeah, EG started moving towards the path of adding Koreans, but Koreans never even do the generic "I'd like to thank Intel Steelseries Monster Kingston etc." which is why you see Machine and Lz still on the team as opposed to dropping all their american palyers in favor of Koreans. The world of sponsorship is no longer just about performance, it is about the investment. The ROI of Demon Fear and Bulba is way higher than Zenith gives, and 'cheapness' isn't the issue since the EG players are salaried better than any other team. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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Hoban
United States1600 Posts
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5-s
United States1674 Posts
On April 03 2012 09:52 Zlasher wrote: They ARE the highest salary team in Dota2, from what I've heard its actually on a scale above what any other team pays, although I don't know what the eastern european teams like Darer or Navi pay. Don't you think though, that for Bulba, the support you can get from EG, and the popularity that being on EG gives, is a bigger upside than staying on Gosu? Gosu is good but the way they stand, they don't really beat the top tier teams in BO3's so whats that say about their potential at the international 2, which is all that should matter because the other tournaments between now and then are nearly irrelevant in prize money compared to TI2. That said, EG has the resources, unlike any other organization, ESPECIALLY an American organization, to send their team to a LAN like Dreamhack. I don't know the scene nearly as well as you do 5-s but don't you think it would be more attractive and have potential to be supported before, during, and after TI2, as well as do well at TI2 with EG compared to Gosu? Especially if he can bring over two of his teammates (I don't know which ones it might be, but 2 of the other 4) from Gosu to EG?. Don't you think Demon and Fear as well as the support EG gives, would be an upgrade over whatever the bottom two players on GoSu are? What other American players are there of note, that would potentially join a team like this with Fear and Demon, outside of GoSu? The three stable players on Gosu besides Bulba are Universe, Korok, and Pig. Korok and Pig I doubt would be willing to join EG, for various reasons. As it stands, if EG goes all-American, they'll be in the same situation as Gosu: they'll need at least +1. Additionally, Gosu's been performing better than EG lately, If the goal is purely to do well at the international, I think Gosu has as good of a chance as an American EG to do well. The question is who they'd be able to pick up to round out their lineup if EG does reform. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:06 Hoban wrote: I would like to see an all NA team. Even if it is just so I have an 'All American' team to root for. It is always fun to root for your home team, even if they don't win all the time. Plus, Fear went to high school in the same division as myself so I am always rooting for the guy. Not many players have the experience. I doubt players like Fear and Demon would want to sit through 2 years of mediocrity watching million dollar tournaments fly by so they could train them to compete with professionals who have 5+ years experience. | ||
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5-s
United States1674 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:43 Itsmedudeman wrote: Not many players have the experience. I doubt players like Fear and Demon would want to sit through 2 years of mediocrity watching million dollar tournaments fly by so they could train them to compete with professionals who have 5+ years experience. That's not the problem, it's more personality / synergy issues. 5 of America's strongest players could in theory compete with every team in the world, but it's hard to get them together. America has more competitive players than any country besides Russia/Ukraine and Asian countries. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On April 03 2012 09:55 Zlasher wrote: It isn't just about skill or how 'cheap' a team is to sponsor. This is EG, money isn't the option its the return on the investment you get. Demon and Fear are extremely popular, and can plug their sponsors well, they get several hundred to a few thousand viewers on their stream. The Zenith guys don't. Also Zenith never plays in touranments that are seen by north american audiences, due to lag. Yeah, EG started moving towards the path of adding Koreans, but Koreans never even do the generic "I'd like to thank Intel Steelseries Monster Kingston etc." which is why you see Machine and Lz still on the team as opposed to dropping all their american palyers in favor of Koreans. The world of sponsorship is no longer just about performance, it is about the investment. The ROI of Demon Fear and Bulba is way higher than Zenith gives, and 'cheapness' isn't the issue since the EG players are salaried better than any other team. Demon and Fear was NOT popular before they join EG... the ONLY USA player who was popular was merlini and now he is coaching (SK?). Imagine what would happen if EG pick up Zenith and force them to strteam daily basis? The SEA esports scene will explode and its one of the unexplored market along with china(kinda). Its like asking why would they pick up Korean players if the majority of the audience is in US: skill level is higher. Hell twitch was not even available in KR back then and they only recently install kr.twitch.tv for korean streamers. Another point is that if they really was aiming for US audience instead of contest winners, they could have just picked up a LoL team instead (majority of dota english scene is in EU). Lets think about it: maelk leaves EG, EG wont perform as well as they could, lost their spot to The International 2... Thats more harm then good. | ||
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drew-chan
Malaysia1517 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:54 NB wrote: Demon and Fear was NOT popular before they join EG... the ONLY USA player who was popular was merlini and now he is coaching (SK?). Imagine what would happen if EG pick up Zenith and force them to strteam daily basis? The SEA esports scene will explode and its one of the unexplored market along with china(kinda). Its like asking why would they pick up Korean players if the majority of the audience is in US: skill level is higher. Hell twitch was not even available in KR back then and they only recently install kr.twitch.tv for korean streamers. Another point is that if they really was aiming for US audience instead of contest winners, they could have just picked up a LoL team instead (majority of dota english scene is in EU). Lets think about it: maelk leaves EG, EG wont perform as well as they could, lost their spot to The International 2... Thats more harm then good. I seem to remember a certain FearDarkness and coL.Fear and the solo mid clinkz that started me on professorial DotA. Was quite a long time ago though. | ||
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Skullflower
United States3779 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:54 NB wrote: Demon and Fear was NOT popular before they join EG... the ONLY USA player who was popular was merlini and now he is coaching (SK?). Wait, wasn't Fear considered one of the best Dota players ever some time ago? I'd assume he'd have been popular before joining EG. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On April 03 2012 11:15 Skullflower wrote: Wait, wasn't Fear considered one of the best Dota players ever some time ago? I'd assume he'd have been popular before joining EG. the only 'best dota player' that was non-chinese was yamateh and he was over hyped by quite a bit... even through out all the Loda Vigoss Kuroky period non of them were 'best' @_@ | ||
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GenoPewPew
United States347 Posts
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
First and possibly only hero I can max out, but it made me happy. | ||
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
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Kentakky
Sweden1272 Posts
On April 03 2012 11:19 NB wrote: the only 'best dota player' that was non-chinese was yamateh and he was over hyped by quite a bit... even through out all the Loda Vigoss Kuroky period non of them were 'best' @_@ http://www.sk-gaming.com/forum/16-DOTA/2298319-TOP_10_BEST_DOTA_PLAYERS_OF_ALL_TIMECOUNTDOWN Fear 5th place while not even playing at the time of the vote I'd say he's a popular player before EG. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
also that list only apply to westerner while the big scene is always in the east... ~_~ | ||
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henryo
New Zealand12 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 03 2012 12:28 NB wrote: thats was way way way too old school me no know off. And he isnt even streaming :-/... also that list only apply to westerner while the big scene is always in the east... ~_~ Wouldn't say always. Asian DotA wasn't always strong as it is now. For quite a long time there wasn't a big enough "scene" in China or SEA for you to say anything definitive. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
Demon became famous a little bit later but he was definitely not famous because of EG. Before that he was already MYM.Demon. I think even in hi2u he was already kinda making a name for himself. Edit : Ok found Pride 9 highlight video. SEA dota were there from the start just that the scenes were not that connected and we didn't hear much of them because they didn't join MYM Pride until late. In fact i think the first big LAN for dota was the WCG Asian Championship 2005 or 2006 | ||
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