|
On October 25 2013 05:29 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 05:23 Sn0_Man wrote:On October 25 2013 05:21 Severedevil wrote:On October 24 2013 22:56 govie wrote:On October 24 2013 22:47 SKC wrote:On October 24 2013 21:34 govie wrote:On October 24 2013 21:26 bluegarfield wrote:On October 24 2013 21:21 govie wrote:I dont understand the below quote from OP, can someone clarify what AoE the agh.septer gives doom? thx - Doom Aghanim AoE requirement increased from 550 to 900
- Hide Spoiler -
This is the AoE that is considered when freezing the duration of Aghanim upgraded Doom. it is the AoE in which the doomed target have the doom duration frozen, aka if Doom with aghs cast doom on Gyro, as long as Gyro stay within 900 range around Doom, the doom duration is frozen Thx! Thats a pretty nice upgrade, but dont know if that justifies an expensive septer. Could be i guess, lemme think  That's not the only change from Aghs, it also increases the duration and damage. It's still not exactly an amazing items for doom, but far more practical than it would be otherwise. Well, if there is no manasupport in the team (cm or kotl), I allways have mana issues. If i would go septer first, i can skip vangaurd and a shiva's is less good after septer anyways becuz ive allready got better manaproduction. So, septer could be potent because u can skip 2 expensive items if u can manage it all with a septer.` edit: Tried it with manaboots into --> bloodstone+septer -> u have a nice early tanking spellspammer but to much mana to spend. Not good! You could just get mana boots --> scepter, and not bother with Bloodstone. Energy Booster doesn't obligate you to Bloodstone. Or you could just not throw away 4200 gold and avoid purchasing aghs since its horrendous. Agha is good on doom, but he really needs some HP and armor before. Those no armor doom are so annoying in pubs.
I had succes with the manaboots into bloodstone & septer. Only thing was tweaking the balance between manaproduction and mana-usage. As i didnt use or could not use enough mana. So, i agree that mana boots doesnt obligate doom but u will have a efficiencytimer on those boots because they get less effective as the game goes on. I still like rushing the bloodstone, 1. its a perfect fit for doom 2. kill suicide to heal teammates to tank damage 3. easy to get and 4. without an early septer, manabalance is alot better. So u can get AC or shiva after Bloodstone. No one will suspect a tanky doom so early. But u dont need more mana so a shiva would be better on other teammates, so go for AC and other items that gives other stuff then a bigger manapool or manaregen. An early 2000hp doom that keeps spamming his lowlevelspells is a pain in the butt, certainly in combination with all the healingpower which will result in u attacking until victory (if ur a bit lucky). If your team is balanced for midgame, u will have lots of fun (but im no dota2 expert, but this is my experience so far with doom+early bloodstone).
But i tried powerthreads into drums into shiva's into AC into Septer into Aegis (longer game) also today and that worked really well. Almost no missing mana or spellsspam, balance was still less good then with a single bloodstone, but not bad and the hero is more tanky early game, has better stats and usage midgame and lategame. Bloodstonerush worked for me, but i guess PT(blue early, red after shiva)+drum into higher tier items is more logical, safer and versatel.
I like septer on doom but mostly lategame, because its as far as i know, its the only spell that can kill an lvl25 enemy in 1 click, so long the character stays in range that is. The longer the game goes on, the longer battles seem to take, so yes, i believe its usefull for the ulti and hp. Those late game battles are gimmicky enough and each small advantage u should take. I believe a septer as a 5/6th item is better then a HoT for example. A halberd, sheepstick or that silincestick are also nice, but more micro needed aswell, and i dont like that
edit : And to add to the discussion of purge on necronmicon units, u can steal purge spell from creeps with doom. Seems like cheapest and easiest counter. i like doom
|
Bloodstone isn't perfect on Doom at all.
You don't necessarily need HP from your first item since you have monstrous base strength and strength gain. And even if you did, Bloodstone isn't an item you get because you need HP. You need some mana but in no way does Doom scale with infinite mana regen. If you respawn quickly it doesn't matter because your most important spell will still be on CD. Doom isn't a Bloodstone hero at all.
You get Bloodstone on heroes who scale with near infinite mana regen and who can respawn in 0 seconds at full effectiveness because they don't rely on a 100 second cooldown ultimate (Storm, Timber, Leshrac). If you just need HP and some nominal amount of mana regen/mana pool there are much more cost-effective options.
The build you outline in your third paragraph is way more sensible. If you still want mana regen you could go Basi->Vlads or even Urn I guess (though I don't know if Doom's the best Urn carrier). Or just get the Arcanes. You worry too much about the effectiveness of your Arcane Boots dropping off lategame, but that's really not worth worrying about too much if they solve your early game problems and help your team.
|
Guys, its time to go necrobook on every hero.
|
|
|
Played a handful of games and as a 5, pulling creeps on your safe lane does not cut it any longer. The lower exp and gold gain makes it hard to keep in step of your carry and it "forces" a lot of aggressive play like ganking and harassing. Definitely more level independent supports and less junglers.
Though I tried to jungle with Enigma (practice against AI) and I still managed to get Boots and Mek within 11 minutes.
|
On October 25 2013 12:33 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Played a handful of games and as a 5, pulling creeps on your safe lane does not cut it any longer. The lower exp and gold gain makes it hard to keep in step of your carry and it "forces" a lot of aggressive play like ganking and harassing. Definitely more level independent supports and less junglers.
Though I tried to jungle with Enigma (practice against AI) and I still managed to get Boots and Mek within 11 minutes.
Thats the new gold per second change.
|
Jungling's not much different, pulling is definitely way more challenging.
|
On October 25 2013 14:20 5-s wrote:
Jungling's not much different, pulling is definitely way more challenging.
Sorry but how is jungling not much different? They reduced the exp gain and gold gain on some camps. I guess the reduced gold gain is mitigated by the increased gold per second but exp wise, it is lower than usual.
Also, about pulling, will your opponents gain exp from neutral kills even if they don't have direct line of sight with the neutral creeps?
|
On October 25 2013 21:15 SilverSkyLark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 14:20 5-s wrote:
Jungling's not much different, pulling is definitely way more challenging. Sorry but how is jungling not much different? They reduced the exp gain and gold gain on some camps. I guess the reduced gold gain is mitigated by the increased gold per second but exp wise, it is lower than usual. Also, about pulling, will your opponents gain exp from neutral kills even if they don't have direct line of sight with the neutral creeps?
yes you just need to be in the xp aoe
|
I like this patch. Keeps em honest. New meta quite literally. WP valve!
|
I tried some Necronomicon on maiden just now in a pub (becuz i saw it get used by dk and tongfu). Whahaha, so funny
Amazing that it works so well against a riki, weaver, sandking, naix assasin and other invisibility-heros/items. Also its not hard to get and usefull at lvl1 when pushing tier 1 towers. But its also is a allright against pudge that eats maidens for breakfast. U can zone him out or use the warriors as scouts. Ofcourse it feels gimmicky but if your lane gets first blood, skip drums, only buy naked boots and a wand and go straight for necronomicon, good int+str and a nice 4th skill to boot.
Ended with 9 - 4 - 20 : Wand, Naked boots, Necronomicon lvl 3, Drums, TP boots and all the blue and yellow wards for total mapvision. Pushy maiden is the new meta! So funny to play with. haha
|
Mid heroes with no escape is so easy to shut down with this new patch if you manage to figure out where they have their wards/smoke. I feel like mid heroes like SF must be really hard to get going now without a ward in mid since you could pretty much just start killing them from minute 4 instead of 6.
|
lucky for sf he has the medium camp right next to him if hes on radiant. personally i feel this is the best patch for sf to come back as a regular mid hero. the night change is bad for him but if their supports are off the map so should yours, so that just comes down to who was doing a better job supporting. sf destroys heroes if he can secure runes, and with the delayed bottle crow i feel sf can really start winning some mid lanes again, especially on radiant side
|
Vatican City State2902 Posts
|
|
|
Venomancer is OP or Broken. I pld him alot today, its too easy to get 2 1 2 ratio or higher. Needs a nerf maybe, sorry but this one is that good now.
|
On October 25 2013 23:55 govie wrote:I tried some Necronomicon on maiden just now in a pub (becuz i saw it get used by dk and tongfu). Whahaha, so funny Amazing that it works so well against a riki, weaver, sandking, naix assasin and other invisibility-heros/items. Also its not hard to get and usefull at lvl1 when pushing tier 1 towers. But its also is a allright against pudge that eats maidens for breakfast. U can zone him out or use the warriors as scouts. Ofcourse it feels gimmicky but if your lane gets first blood, skip drums, only buy naked boots and a wand and go straight for necronomicon, good int+str and a nice 4th skill to boot. Ended with 9 - 4 - 20 : Wand, Naked boots, Necronomicon lvl 3, Drums, TP boots and all the blue and yellow wards for total mapvision. Pushy maiden is the new meta! So funny to play with. haha
Necro isn't outright "good" on CM - but it might be picked in a pro game like that when a team is trying to mass necrobooks for an unstoppable push. Necro isnt really bad on ANY hero.
|
On October 26 2013 07:05 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2013 23:55 govie wrote:I tried some Necronomicon on maiden just now in a pub (becuz i saw it get used by dk and tongfu). Whahaha, so funny Amazing that it works so well against a riki, weaver, sandking, naix assasin and other invisibility-heros/items. Also its not hard to get and usefull at lvl1 when pushing tier 1 towers. But its also is a allright against pudge that eats maidens for breakfast. U can zone him out or use the warriors as scouts. Ofcourse it feels gimmicky but if your lane gets first blood, skip drums, only buy naked boots and a wand and go straight for necronomicon, good int+str and a nice 4th skill to boot. Ended with 9 - 4 - 20 : Wand, Naked boots, Necronomicon lvl 3, Drums, TP boots and all the blue and yellow wards for total mapvision. Pushy maiden is the new meta! So funny to play with. haha Necro isn't outright "good" on CM - but it might be picked in a pro game like that when a team is trying to mass necrobooks for an unstoppable push. Necro isnt really bad on ANY hero.
I know I know. But i think that septer. AC or a shiva is overdoing it sometimes because maiden will not survive long enough to give a good enough contribution to a fight or u dont get there (4200 gold before the item is useable is not nice). But the necrowarriors dont have that problem (2700 gold). They will always deliver the Int&strength, attacks, manabreaks and eventually visibility lategame. Even if maiden dies, i fought they fight on and give visibility. No need for gems or overbuying wards, let the enemy buy those Seems potent on maiden because maidens weakpoints dont effect the warriors in a negative way and certainly with the goldbuff. Just testing ofcourse, i like nuilding characters
|
On October 26 2013 07:03 govie wrote:
Venomancer is OP or Broken. I pld him alot today, its too easy to get 2 1 2 ratio or higher. Needs a nerf maybe, sorry but this one is that good now.
Veno is still squishy right? I know the poison stuff got buffed which is good cuz I hated getting dived and I don't get anything back when I throw everything I have.
|
My first prediction.
Luna change will be reverted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
