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On October 30 2013 13:41 MyrMindservant wrote:
Also, does anyone else thinks that adding a ~10 sec delay you need to wait before you can use buyback would be a better change than current increase to your next respawn time?
From what I've read at many places, this change was done to discourage buying back and instantly rejoining the fight, i.e. to discourage 5 vs 6-7 team fights. But it also makes players more cautious/afraid to fight at later stages of the game. The respawn time becomes too long at that point.
The biggest purpose of buyback is to rejoining the teamfight. Usually team will communicate to each other 'I have buyback' etc before or during teamfight etc. The nerf is for bringing higher compensation to the player who boughtback (apparently the gradually increasing buyback gold cost is not that big of a deal nowadays), it is defo not about removing/discouraging people buyback to rejoin team fight. Icefrog doesn't like the overly anticlimactic/overwhelming amount of buybacks but adequate level of buybacks is good for keeping the game interesting/exciting to watch.
Additionally, a 10s delay of buyback would completely screw up some heroes like spec, in late game ofc.
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what's more anti-climatic than being dead for 2 minutes..
maybe team building 4 midases. I really dislike the gold and buyback changes.
Offlane changes are great
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On October 30 2013 19:34 ejozl wrote:
I see the new Buyback as a risk that if it pays off and you used it at a crucial and correct time, where you will not just die, you won't be affected. However if you die, you will.
My problem is if you buyback in an ideal situation and then later die in an completely unrelated play you get penalized for it, like I said in my earlier post if it was tied to the new unreliable gold timer I would be fine with it, I'm happy with bad buybacks getting punished but when I buy back at an appropriate time and suffer later for it.....why would I even bother if it makes the next death potentially game ending? It makes me not want to bother buying back unless I'm sure the situation is a matter of win or lose. If I do end up buying back to try save the game, I'm hesitant to take any kind of risk afterwards (the kind of play you need to comeback) because I know if I fail and die the game will likely just end before I can respawn. Anything hampering comebacks in dota I see as horribly negative, personally I feel like the biggest problem facing the dota is lack of ability for teams to fight their way back from disadvantage resulting in predictable steamrolls, not fun to play not fun to watch.
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On October 30 2013 21:34 MarKeD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 19:34 ejozl wrote:
I see the new Buyback as a risk that if it pays off and you used it at a crucial and correct time, where you will not just die, you won't be affected. However if you die, you will. My problem is if you buyback in an ideal situation and then later die in an completely unrelated play you get penalized for it, like I said in my earlier post if it was tied to the new unreliable gold timer I would be fine with it, I'm happy with bad buybacks getting punished but when I buy back at an appropriate time and suffer later for it.....why would I even bother if it makes the next death potentially game ending? It makes me not want to bother buying back unless I'm sure the situation is a matter of win or lose. If I do end up buying back to try save the game, I'm hesitant to take any kind of risk afterwards (the kind of play you need to comeback) because I know if I fail and die the game will likely just end before I can respawn. Anything hampering comebacks in dota I see as horribly negative, personally I feel like the biggest problem facing the dota is lack of ability for teams to fight their way back from disadvantage resulting in predictable steamrolls, not fun to play not fun to watch.
If you die when your buyback is on cooldown you pay for it. Fine for me, don't abuse it. I also disagree on the comeback issue, it takes lots of skills and the best teams are also good at playing from behind.
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you could orb attack thu disarm
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I know Roshan disadvantage of radiant but I find it hard to justify hard lane make me think it is easier than easy lane.
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I "feel" , I could be horribly wrong here, that the mid lane is too important atm.
You pick a low Impact mid (or lose it) --> Enemy Support/jungler moves to your jungle --> Now your opponent basically has 2 savelanes and you have non --> Better win that next teamfight (which you have to force) or your basically done for.
At least it feels like that more often than before the patch.
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So at the end, the Alche ulti change its a buff or a nerf ? feels like a Buff to me, that 100HP regen has save so many alches in lastest matches that you really need to burst him down now
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I feel pretty confident in saying it's a nerf to Alch.
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Feels like a nerf in teamfight situation and like a buff in small skirmishes (or dragged out teamfights).
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Nerf to ealry game bursts, buff to other imho. Regen is so strong, I am more and more convinced it is an overall buff.
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It's way easier to focus him down, it's a big nerf.
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maybe a buff in some pubs, but i think definitely a nerf overall
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I did some math on the change and got the following result. First level gives 35 more hp/s that makes so as long as he survives in 7,14 seconds he gains more hp from it. Second level gives 45 more hp/s and you need 11,11 seconds for it to be a buff and third level you get 40hp/s more and need 18,75 seconds before he gains more hp then before.
This is of course given that he don't die and lose hp during the duration. Overall I think you can say it is a buff as long as the enemy don't have huge nukes.
I guess you can say it is a nref in most situations though, but I would not say it is a straight nerf.
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On October 31 2013 04:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
Its a big nerf.
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Having played alch after the patch, I really felt the Ult change was a buff in the early to mid game, (using the same old builds with sb, mael AC etc.) but a big nerf in the late game, I just get blown up way too quickly in fights bigger than 3v3.
Recently people have been using the Armlet build which looks like a pretty good fix as it bumps the total HP a lot, but I don't think it has quite the same effect as the old Ult boost.
Basically it seems like you are forced to build for more durability (total HP) into the late game, which goes pretty far in nerfing his total potential DPS.
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yeah you have to make the choice of being a glass cannon version of the old alch or a whiffle bat version of the old alch.
well his damage output isnt really that bad but you definitely have to devote more gold to combination hp and damage items like armlet if you dont want to be blown up instantly, which gives you lower damage output because before you could just go mjollnir shadowblade ac and still have fantastic hp at level 16.
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On October 31 2013 07:21 PassiveAce wrote:
yeah you have to make the choice of being a glass cannon version of the old alch or a whiffle bat version of the old alch.
well his damage output isnt really that bad but you definitely have to devote more gold to combination hp and damage items like armlet if you dont want to be blown up instantly, which gives you lower damage output because before you could just go mjollnir shadowblade ac and still have fantastic hp at level 16.
Yea, also it seems like it's an overall nerf to fun.. before when you went the shadowblade mjollnir build. You could really actively engage in midgame teamfights in weedwacker mode or get a lot of good surprise gank kills early on. Now, if your going to be needed late to help close out the game, you have to play a bit more passively and come in swinging a bit slower, which makes him feel a lot like SK, a notoriously boring hero.
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EPT
