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Lina ulti with aghs is universal now?
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On April 28 2014 21:51 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 19:39 nojok wrote:On April 28 2014 17:06 Aelfric wrote:On April 28 2014 16:29 ScarPe wrote:On April 28 2014 04:47 Yurie wrote:On April 28 2014 03:29 Surprise.820 wrote:
edit: This post isn't specifically in reply to the above, I'm just rambling about spectator perspectives for the sake of it.
He still gets a niche pick every so often in pro-games, I don't know why people are always so keen to forget this. There's obviously a reason why teams don't pick him right now and that's fine, but don't pretend he's a bad hero who never gets played ever.
edit: I guess the UAM is an attempt to give more options to the hero, I don't really see the problem with giving a deso, mask of madness, diffusal blade, skadi or satanic to Ursa, why not? Skadi and satanic strikes me as interesting because of the ult synergy and what both items offer to him. I do find the prospect of a stable lvl 5 solo Roshan terrifying tho. Mask of Madness. Movement and attack speed, better than Vladimir (for Ursa) for the same price. I at least think that will be a common item since it allows faster jungling/ancient/rosh while giving you limited chase ability. MoM?? cant you guys think out of the box? i say you stay with vladmirs and then transition into desolator. the amout of dmg will be insane. mom makes him too squishy. you cant take MoM as a sole item anyways, as you have to pair it with bkb in a serious game. so its theoretically no 2k item, its 5,6k. On April 28 2014 15:48 Aelfric wrote:
I see offlane lich becoming really viable after this. Deny xp and staying in the lane is not extremely hard with spams. Maybe can even rush aghs. so you are blind. lich offlane has a very big flaw in this current meta. this also comes from his creepdenying. if there is a lich solo offlane. he might get exp via creep denyal, but this is also his downfall, because the enemys will just push. he cant do shit against prople that just push his tower, which is even easier because he helps you to push with sacrifice. also: have you ever seen lich ulti bounce more that 2 times in a competetive game? no you didnt. thats why is dosent matter how many bounced this ultimate can have at maximum. just to make sure this is also mentioned: +8/9 amor on the tower will not do anything against this fact. it will only slow them down by 1 creepwave. maxbe 2. You can always spam your first skill thanks to sacrifice. And you don't have to have a late game farmer carry every single game. You might get a mid game fighter team and get lich offlane and pull creeps to tier 2 when the push comes. Yes his ulti is unreliable but pros do combinations really well so combining his ulti with something like rp or chrono or maybe even vacuum isn't impossible either. Lich could grab some xp with boots first on offlane but so does all offlaners, once the ennemies have boots too it's the easiest tower dive. Besides getting ulti on lich is nice but no way near as useful than on clock, timber, centaur, BH who are all harder to kill except for BH. Tbh sacrifice is already fucking op in pubs, I wish they would not buff a boring hero as much when they barely improve melee strength carries outside of tiny who is already the most picked out of this pool... I really don't see much benefit of orb effect on ursa except you won't have to buy the full vlad to sustain and orb of venom in lane. Hex and abyssal will remain the superior choices late game and midgame you'll usually want other stuff like dagger and BKB. Sure it will improve his lategame but you will still want to end before I guess, or maybe in combinations with those boring mid farmer. My wishlist would be agha on jugg allowing him to right click during bladefury but maybe he would be op though I doubt it as it's still a 24 sec cd. Please just make the omnislash better than sleight of fist. It's just too stupid that a non-ultimate with the same function does a better job than the ultimate that does the same shit. Pretty shit icefrog i hope that amphibian realizes that. Decrease more cd with aghs or something. There is almost no area that omnislash is better than sleight of fist in the lategame.
Why would you compare omnislash to SoF? Omnislash does a ton of nuke damage (2k-3k at lvl 16 with aghs, plus auto attacks), while SOF damage is dependant on enemy positioning and having battlefury and some damage items.
They are different skills.
But ember is stupid, screw that hero.
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On April 28 2014 22:09 ControlMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 21:51 goody153 wrote:On April 28 2014 19:39 nojok wrote:On April 28 2014 17:06 Aelfric wrote:On April 28 2014 16:29 ScarPe wrote:On April 28 2014 04:47 Yurie wrote:On April 28 2014 03:29 Surprise.820 wrote:
edit: This post isn't specifically in reply to the above, I'm just rambling about spectator perspectives for the sake of it.
He still gets a niche pick every so often in pro-games, I don't know why people are always so keen to forget this. There's obviously a reason why teams don't pick him right now and that's fine, but don't pretend he's a bad hero who never gets played ever.
edit: I guess the UAM is an attempt to give more options to the hero, I don't really see the problem with giving a deso, mask of madness, diffusal blade, skadi or satanic to Ursa, why not? Skadi and satanic strikes me as interesting because of the ult synergy and what both items offer to him. I do find the prospect of a stable lvl 5 solo Roshan terrifying tho. Mask of Madness. Movement and attack speed, better than Vladimir (for Ursa) for the same price. I at least think that will be a common item since it allows faster jungling/ancient/rosh while giving you limited chase ability. MoM?? cant you guys think out of the box? i say you stay with vladmirs and then transition into desolator. the amout of dmg will be insane. mom makes him too squishy. you cant take MoM as a sole item anyways, as you have to pair it with bkb in a serious game. so its theoretically no 2k item, its 5,6k. On April 28 2014 15:48 Aelfric wrote:
I see offlane lich becoming really viable after this. Deny xp and staying in the lane is not extremely hard with spams. Maybe can even rush aghs. so you are blind. lich offlane has a very big flaw in this current meta. this also comes from his creepdenying. if there is a lich solo offlane. he might get exp via creep denyal, but this is also his downfall, because the enemys will just push. he cant do shit against prople that just push his tower, which is even easier because he helps you to push with sacrifice. also: have you ever seen lich ulti bounce more that 2 times in a competetive game? no you didnt. thats why is dosent matter how many bounced this ultimate can have at maximum. just to make sure this is also mentioned: +8/9 amor on the tower will not do anything against this fact. it will only slow them down by 1 creepwave. maxbe 2. You can always spam your first skill thanks to sacrifice. And you don't have to have a late game farmer carry every single game. You might get a mid game fighter team and get lich offlane and pull creeps to tier 2 when the push comes. Yes his ulti is unreliable but pros do combinations really well so combining his ulti with something like rp or chrono or maybe even vacuum isn't impossible either. Lich could grab some xp with boots first on offlane but so does all offlaners, once the ennemies have boots too it's the easiest tower dive. Besides getting ulti on lich is nice but no way near as useful than on clock, timber, centaur, BH who are all harder to kill except for BH. Tbh sacrifice is already fucking op in pubs, I wish they would not buff a boring hero as much when they barely improve melee strength carries outside of tiny who is already the most picked out of this pool... I really don't see much benefit of orb effect on ursa except you won't have to buy the full vlad to sustain and orb of venom in lane. Hex and abyssal will remain the superior choices late game and midgame you'll usually want other stuff like dagger and BKB. Sure it will improve his lategame but you will still want to end before I guess, or maybe in combinations with those boring mid farmer. My wishlist would be agha on jugg allowing him to right click during bladefury but maybe he would be op though I doubt it as it's still a 24 sec cd. Please just make the omnislash better than sleight of fist. It's just too stupid that a non-ultimate with the same function does a better job than the ultimate that does the same shit. Pretty shit icefrog i hope that amphibian realizes that. Decrease more cd with aghs or something. There is almost no area that omnislash is better than sleight of fist in the lategame. Why would you compare omnislash to SoF? Omnislash does a ton of nuke damage (2k-3k at lvl 16 with aghs, plus auto attacks), while SOF damage is dependant on enemy positioning and having battlefury and some damage items. They are different skills. But ember is stupid, screw that hero.
Omnislash is supposed to be an ultimate 
Until the day omnislash does not do the same shit ton of damage SoF aka teamwipe damage. I will not stop complaining.
But i mainly complaining with the cd only. SoF has a really low cd while omnislash has higher. And sometimes SoF does a better job. Well usually SoF does a better job. It's unfair.
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On April 28 2014 21:52 goody153 wrote:
The lina change is pretty shit. Carries that have low health will have a hard time in CM. Oh wait there is a lot of carries with low health.
I highly doubt that this will do much for Lina.
Aghs alone most likely won’t do it… She still needs Forcestaff or Blink on top.
Aghs + Forcestaff/Blink won’t do it… She needs tons of Mana to actually use her spells + ult (laguna blade costs like 620 mana on lvl 3 with Aghs iirc).
Being able to hit a BKB’d carry is nice, but throwing your whole combo on a support to take him out is just as viable in many cases…
If you want to be truly usefull Hex or Ethereal Blade still seem to be better choices…
In general Lion is just better?Even if BKB’s are around, he can still instagib 2 Illusions with Hex/Manadrain and his stun is easier to hit (if you ever played as Lion against lategame TB or Naga you realise just how powerfull this actually is).
+his Aghs-Ult still seems better (and he can refill his Mana between fights).
Lina will be able to hurt the enemy carry but if your expecting your 4/5 to « deal » with the enemy carry you most likely have some issues in your lineup anyway  . Running her on a higher priority seems strange because she lacks an ability to take down towers quickly or a way to really initiate…
I really like to play Lina but she just feels „meh“.
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On April 28 2014 22:41 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 21:52 goody153 wrote:
The lina change is pretty shit. Carries that have low health will have a hard time in CM. Oh wait there is a lot of carries with low health. I highly doubt that this will do much for Lina. Aghs alone most likely won’t do it… She still needs Forcestaff or Blink on top. Aghs + Forcestaff/Blink won’t do it… She needs tons of Mana to actually use her spells + ult (laguna blade costs like 620 mana on lvl 3 with Aghs iirc). Being able to hit a BKB’d carry is nice, but throwing your whole combo on a support to take him out is just as viable in many cases… If you want to be truly usefull Hex or Ethereal Blade still seem to be better choices… In general Lion is just better?Even if BKB’s are around, he can still instagib 2 Illusions with Hex/Manadrain and his stun is easier to hit (if you ever played as Lion against lategame TB or Naga you realise just how powerfull this actually is). +his Aghs-Ult still seems better (and he can refill his Mana between fights). Lina will be able to hurt the enemy carry but if your expecting your 4/5 to « deal » with the enemy carry you most likely have some issues in your lineup anyway . Running her on a higher priority seems strange because she lacks an ability to take down towers quickly or a way to really initiate… I really like to play Lina but she just feels „meh“.
i am more worried in the mid-lategame lina support getting aghs ..
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On April 28 2014 00:18 VonHausen wrote:
nooooooooo they removed meepo from ability draft :_(
What do you mean noooooo
This is the only thing they could've done to make the mode playable
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I know a secret. Wisp+Omniknight new meta.
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After testing it, Husk change doesn't do much. Mek-> Armlet are still your two best first items to go for. You get a better extension for lategame in Satanic compared to Heart, but still.
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On April 28 2014 23:19 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 22:41 Velr wrote:On April 28 2014 21:52 goody153 wrote:
The lina change is pretty shit. Carries that have low health will have a hard time in CM. Oh wait there is a lot of carries with low health. I highly doubt that this will do much for Lina. Aghs alone most likely won’t do it… She still needs Forcestaff or Blink on top. Aghs + Forcestaff/Blink won’t do it… She needs tons of Mana to actually use her spells + ult (laguna blade costs like 620 mana on lvl 3 with Aghs iirc). Being able to hit a BKB’d carry is nice, but throwing your whole combo on a support to take him out is just as viable in many cases… If you want to be truly usefull Hex or Ethereal Blade still seem to be better choices… In general Lion is just better?Even if BKB’s are around, he can still instagib 2 Illusions with Hex/Manadrain and his stun is easier to hit (if you ever played as Lion against lategame TB or Naga you realise just how powerfull this actually is). +his Aghs-Ult still seems better (and he can refill his Mana between fights). Lina will be able to hurt the enemy carry but if your expecting your 4/5 to « deal » with the enemy carry you most likely have some issues in your lineup anyway . Running her on a higher priority seems strange because she lacks an ability to take down towers quickly or a way to really initiate… I really like to play Lina but she just feels „meh“. i am more worried in the mid-lategame lina support getting aghs ..
I'm fired up for the lina buffs.
IMHO I think she comes out on top of Lion now if her ult pierces through BKB and her range is increased to 670. People always forget about fiery soul, which really adds to her potency compared to other nukers who blow their load and then have nothing left for the teamfight.
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Lion and lina are a lot less similar than people like to make them out.
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On April 28 2014 21:51 goody153 wrote:It's just too stupid that a non-ultimate with the same function does a better job than the ultimate that does the same shit. Pretty shit icefrog i hope that amphibian realizes that.
Decrease more cd with aghs or something. There is almost no area that omnislash is better than sleight of fist in the lategame.
Make Jug's ult include right-click without the MS required for the bonus. Tweak the spell or make it Aghs only because you don't want someone to do too much damage on top of a crit skill, multiple times on 1 target.
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On April 29 2014 00:48 Surprise.820 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 21:51 goody153 wrote:It's just too stupid that a non-ultimate with the same function does a better job than the ultimate that does the same shit. Pretty shit icefrog i hope that amphibian realizes that.
Decrease more cd with aghs or something. There is almost no area that omnislash is better than sleight of fist in the lategame. Make Jug's ult include right-click without the MS required for the bonus. Tweak the spell or make it Aghs only because you don't want someone to do too much damage on top of a crit skill, multiple times on 1 target.
Well, lowering his BAT like they did does make it easier to proc auto's during his ult. I can't off the top of my head think of a more elegant way to enable this more without just making it exactly like SoF.
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On April 29 2014 00:51 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 00:48 Surprise.820 wrote:On April 28 2014 21:51 goody153 wrote:It's just too stupid that a non-ultimate with the same function does a better job than the ultimate that does the same shit. Pretty shit icefrog i hope that amphibian realizes that.
Decrease more cd with aghs or something. There is almost no area that omnislash is better than sleight of fist in the lategame. Make Jug's ult include right-click without the MS required for the bonus. Tweak the spell or make it Aghs only because you don't want someone to do too much damage on top of a crit skill, multiple times on 1 target. Well, lowering his BAT like they did does make it easier to proc auto's during his ult. I can't off the top of my head think of a more elegant way to enable this more without just making it exactly like SoF.
Oh shit, you likely right. Possibly allows you to get sensible items instead of Mjolnir to follow up on Aghs too if you wanted to do this.
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SoF isnt the problem at all.
the problem is the ultimate of ember and the fact, that you can cast searing chains while CoF is active.
you can not effectively gank him, as this hero forgives nearly any horrific positioning mistakes...
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For Ember, there is no mistake; only the bait.
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On April 29 2014 00:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
Lion and lina are a lot less similar than people like to make them out.
Then who is similar to Lina?
Skywrath? Lightning/Stun-Leshrac?
She seems to be the last "pure" nuker...
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On April 29 2014 01:36 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 00:29 Sn0_Man wrote:
Lion and lina are a lot less similar than people like to make them out. Then who is similar to Lina?
I mean, heroes don't have to be too similar to others. That said I think that lesh is a LOT more similar to lina over lion.
Regardless, I just noticed that viper received absolutely no changes. I find that interesting. Not even a tiny hint of a tweak.
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It is hilarious to see people whine ember all day long and when i do the same, got flamed hard.
Adding fantastic properties to support aghs makes the game better or just forces low income supports being more greedy? I don't think it contributes more than just lulz for many of them(excluding AA). Necro aghs did nothing, omni the same. I think these changes apply pressure to pub games more than competitive. There are already more than enough brown boots -> aghs rusher supports, don't even buy couriers.
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Necro isn't a support and omni aghs is cute but the base hero sucks dick and the aghs doesn't fix that.
Personally I think ember is getting over-nerfed but w/e.
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Omni got a lot of other buffs tho. Not sure if it makes him useful now but still.
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EPT
