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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On April 29 2014 01:36 Velr wrote: Then who is similar to Lina? Skywrath? Lightning/Stun-Leshrac? She seems to be the last "pure" nuker... Shotgun morphling. Both are nuke-centered that transition into right clickers. But shotgun morphling does it better after getting some levels and farm and already has blink. While lina obviously has better contribution early on. | ||
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NickEZ
41 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 29 2014 01:55 Laserist wrote: It is hilarious to see people whine ember all day long and when i do the same, got flamed hard. Adding fantastic properties to support aghs makes the game better or just forces low income supports being more greedy? I don't think it contributes more than just lulz for many of them(excluding AA). Necro aghs did nothing, omni the same. I think these changes apply pressure to pub games more than competitive. There are already more than enough brown boots -> aghs rusher supports, don't even buy couriers. One of the unspoken benefits of the new Aghs upgrades is that it encourages more experimentation in lanes. For most Jakiro players Aghs is not a realistic options since Veil/Force Staff/Euls/Urn are cheaper and provide better team utility. However, that assumes a support position. Jakiro is also one of the better INT laners due to Liquid Fire and can deal with mid heroes like TA and Ember. An Aghs upgrade on mid Jakiro is realistic and often desirable as it massively increases his zoning/pushing power. I think Euls + Aghs can be a viable item build for him in 6.81. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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VeryAverage
United States424 Posts
On April 29 2014 01:55 Laserist wrote: It is hilarious to see people whine ember all day long and when i do the same, got flamed hard. Adding fantastic properties to support aghs makes the game better or just forces low income supports being more greedy? I don't think it contributes more than just lulz for many of them(excluding AA). Necro aghs did nothing, omni the same. I think these changes apply pressure to pub games more than competitive. There are already more than enough brown boots -> aghs rusher supports, don't even buy couriers. But necro isn't a support. One day... one day they'll let me farm on him. People used to let me all the time way back in the early stages of beta (late 2011-early 2012) but it's long past that. I pick necro, I put him bot, I say I'm farming and then boom, NECRO WHY YOU NOT BUY COUR WTF | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 29 2014 04:28 Sn0_Man wrote: Like if ur gonna dedicate a dumb amount of farm to a useless doesn't-scale nuker, it might as well be a sick-ass one like Skywrath or Zoos (or now lina) instead of jak who doesn't even really improve with itams. You don't pick Jakiro mid with late-game scaling in mind. You play him like DK and break the towers as soon as you hit level 6. The difference is you don't get Macropyre because it sucks early on. You max out Liquid Fire first. I think Skywrath is worse overall in mid since he's so fragile and has to use money to acquire bulk. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
The whole point of it's range is so that ur hero can stand way back and abuse Icepath and ult range from safety but if ur a liquid fire maxer for pushing purposes then ur running into them to use that and the range has no benefit. Like, the benefit aghs gives you synergizes with being a squishy backline support but the only time you'd ever get that farm is as a different role that doesn't care about the aghs benefit its quite inconvenient really. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 29 2014 04:39 Sn0_Man wrote: Sure but aghs doesn't do anything if ur pushing towers. The whole point of it's range is so that ur hero can stand way back and abuse Icepath and ult range from safety but if ur a liquid fire maxer for pushing purposes then ur running into them to use that and the range has no benefit. Like, the benefit aghs gives you synergizes with being a squishy backline support but the only time you'd ever get that farm is as a different role that doesn't care about the aghs benefit its quite inconvenient really. You use Aghs to break high ground, control the area around towers and Roshan, and prevent the supports from passing a certain area. In theory Aghs Macropyre is amazing for pushing towers because once it's cast behind the tower, you control where the enemy team can move. Liquid Fire has 600 manual cast range. You don't "run into people with it". You push the creep wave with Dual Breath and waggle back and forth while casting Fire on the tower. It's brain-dead easy and safe to do. Jakiro is not a "squishy backline support". He has the best base STR out of all INT heroes and the 4th highest STR gain (2.3). He only needs mana regen and maybe Veil to accomplish his purpose, and he can do it a lot faster than Orchid/Scythe carriers. I see these Aghs upgrades as another Icefrog hint that he doesn't like seeing 1-1-3 setups all the time. Out of all people he should know 80% of them are impractical in current competitive play and no one was crying about them in pubs. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
Just because he is adding Aghs doesn't mean he is pushing for supports to get more farm. People overreact about them all the time, they said Omni would be a viable mid as well. Even AA with a gamebreaking Aghs wasn't pushed into a farming position. One of the biggest advantage of DK is that he scales well, if you want to go for a one-dimensional pushing strat you may as well pick Pugna. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On April 29 2014 05:02 CosmicSpiral wrote: You use Aghs to break high ground, control the area around towers and Roshan, and prevent the supports from passing a certain area. In theory Aghs Macropyre is amazing for pushing towers because once it's cast behind the tower, you control where the enemy team can move. Liquid Fire has 600 manual cast range. You don't "run into people with it". You push the creep wave with Dual Breath and waggle back and forth while casting Fire on the tower. It's brain-dead easy and safe to do. Jakiro is not a "squishy backline support". He has the best base STR out of all INT heroes and the 4th highest STR gain (2.3). He only needs mana regen and maybe Veil to accomplish his purpose, and he can do it a lot faster than Orchid/Scythe carriers. I see these Aghs upgrades as another Icefrog hint that he doesn't like seeing 1-1-3 setups all the time. Out of all people he should know 80% of them are impractical in current competitive play and no one was crying about them in pubs. macropyre lasts for 7 seconds | ||
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Shaella
United States14827 Posts
14 seconds w/ new aghs | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
A jakiro that can farm an aghs doesn't need an aghs. If aghs made macropyre hit towers for some amount we'd so be in business. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 29 2014 05:09 SKC wrote: He said he wants to add Aghs to every single hero, that's why he keeps adding them. But he obviously doesn't want them to be core for everything, that would be boring. The current status is fine, if you somehow get a triple kill and realize you have a shitload a gold, you may as well buy aghs, but it's not something that you aim for in the beginning of the game. Just because he is adding Aghs doesn't mean he is pushing for supports to get more farm. People overreact about them all the time, they said Omni would be a viable mid as well. Even AA with a gamebreaking Aghs wasn't pushed into a farming position. One of the biggest advantage of DK is that he scales well, if you want to go for a one-dimensional pushing strat you may as well pick Pugna. I would never buy the old Aghs on Jakiro for any reason. Veil was just better and Aghs had no discernible purpose. Omni isn't be a viable mid because of his overall skill set. AA's farming priority did change. While the Aghs addition was in 6.78, his burgeoning popularity in 6.80 changed how willing teams were to acquiesce farm. If he had become popular prior to 6.78 you would never see AAs getting a free lane or jungle to get items. What would he get with it? Urn? Mek? Wards? Considering many changes in 6.79 were specifically made to help support income and nerf passive defensive trilanes, I would disagree. Not to mention he could've left many of the Aghs changes as they were since they rarely made a difference in games. Unlike Pugna Jakiro doesn't die to a breeze, has better lane presence that doesn't require Bottle, and is superior in team fights with less items. Unlike DK he has no gap in his siege timing and has better overall CC. DK is the better hero though but it's often worthwhile to simply win the lane matchup (which Jakiro can definitely do). | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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lprk
Poland2249 Posts
On April 29 2014 05:59 Sn0_Man wrote: Cosmic ur theorycrafting is just mega-questionable Which part is mega-questinable? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
cast time n animation are important | ||
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Hagen0
Germany765 Posts
his spells just need to be good enough | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
if u try to break towers at 6 like he says when comparing to dk, u have 1 point breath and path cuz u invested into liquid fire it sounds nice but in reality ur gonna get dumped on then he says jakiro will win lanes with liquid fire spam but again investing that many points makes him do absolutely nothing else and no competent player will ever lose lane he does not win lane, hes slow, his animations are god awful and his scaling is still awful the aghs upgrade is also completely contradictory to allow him a farming role like sno man said | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
But then I realize that an 80 damage nuke and a 30% 5s slow is also bad, and the slow doesn't scale with levels, Then i wonder if Jakiro abused me in a past life, or if I just hate the hero because everything except Liquid Fire and his base stats seem awful. | ||
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