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D3 Auction Houses close 3-18-2014 - Page 8

Forum Index > Diablo 3
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zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6342 Posts
September 18 2013 07:41 GMT
#141
AH was one of the main things keeping them from making an offline mode, the new management of Diablo is doing great things for the game. Too bad Blizzard is completely dead to me
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
September 18 2013 07:49 GMT
#142
On September 18 2013 15:49 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2013 15:41 dAPhREAk wrote:
On September 18 2013 15:36 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 18 2013 15:20 dAPhREAk wrote:
On September 18 2013 15:15 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 18 2013 15:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On September 18 2013 14:48 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 18 2013 13:54 dAPhREAk wrote:
On September 18 2013 13:30 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 18 2013 13:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
[quote]
consent always applies. just because they cant get consent because of practical reasons means that they arent allowed to take away the functionality. they are trying to get "consent" through their new EULA (maybe, maybe its for another reason), but i highly question the legality of what they are doing since they are saying "accept no AH/RMAH or you cant play anymore." lets not be sheep people. just because you like the change doesnt mean laws go out the window.

You do realize that you already agreed to the previous EULA's which all have "Blizzard may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Service at any time" in them, right? They don't need to get consent through the new EULA to remove the AH.

you really arent that naive are you? do you think they can give themselves carte blanche to do whatever they want?

RMAH was a specifically advertised portion of the game. they cant just sneak in a EULA and then say "oh ho ho, guess what you signed when you logged in and clicked "i agree" despite having no choice other than clicking it because we will take your game away."

If you dont agree with the EULA, you can return it to the vendor you bought it from. If you agreed, you can't. They didn't sneak anything in, it is a very standard online EULA. Do you even know what changed in the EULA? If anything?

Also, what if they decided to just shut down the game servers? As far as I am aware, they are legally allowed to do this if they wanted to. Obviously it would be a bad business move, but they can. Removal of a service is part of what you agreed to. Plain and simple. The way you act is like you invested into botting and are worried you are going to lose a source of income or something.

EDIT: Example of servers shutting down: EA shut down the servers for their Sports 11 titles. ie FIFA 11

i guess you are that naive.

you cannot (1) advertise a material term; (2) put in EULA saying you can do whatever you want; (3) wait until after they accept the EULA and play the game; and then (4) remove the material term.

if they are offering a refund now that they have removed the material term that is a different question. however, i am not sure how they can do that legally without offering to purchase my gear since it has monetary value.

we are not discussing a EULA at the outset. in that case, yes, you are correct that you can just return the game if you dont agree with the EULA. that is not the case here because if you dont accept the current EULA then diablo3 immediately shuts down (i.e., they are saying accept or fuck off).

You can't? Where is the precedence on that? I mean they are giving 6 months notice for a reason. And if you purchased recently, they may very well give a refund. If you bought it 2 years ago though, there is no way they could refund you. It is a video game, not a game to make money off of (this is further proven since it is NOT allowed to flip items for real money). Virtual goods do not have a REAL monetary value. They dont. Just because there is a way to sell them, does not give them real value.

a few hundred years of contract law is the precedent. EULA is the same as any other contract. you can't have illusory contracts, which is what you are describing when you say "they can do whatever they want."

as for notice, they told me accept the EULA or you cant play anymore today.

i have not researched the virtual item issue, but i assume they would have value since they can be bought and sold online. i can sell all of my char's gear right now and make more than d3 cost me.

So what would happen if they decided to shut the servers down? Would they have to refund all 10 million+ copies?

Also, while I am no lawyer the main thing that seems to determine the enforceability of an EULA is whether it is unconscionable. I think you would have a hard time arguing that the EULA is unconscionable in court.

Steam had a run-in with their EULA recently too. Agree to it or you lose access to ALL of your games (maybe even more than $1000 worth). The change prevents you from participating in a class action lawsuit. It was legal.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133806-valves-updated-steam-agreement-bars-class-action-lawsuit-but-is-it-legal

Also, if virtual goods had a monetary value it would be taxed.

they made no promises regarding servers, so the Uniform Commercial Code would apply and most likely a court would look at the reasonableness of the time that the servers were up. two years is probably a reasonable amount of time for $60.

procedural and substantive unconscionability are certainly factors to determine enforcability of contract provisions, but they are not the end all, be all. express covenants and implied covenants are more determinative in this situation. they explictly promised a RMAH.

i skimmed the article about steam. that relates to arbitration and class-action waivers. thats a different issue than removing something you promised.

i do not know if virtual goods have value or not. i assume they do, but the law may not have caught up to the technology, which is so often the case.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverherzfeld/2012/12/04/what-is-the-legal-status-of-virtual-goods/

They didnt? Requiring an internet connection and access to battle.net servers is not a promise for online play? I see this as no different than the RMAH. They promised the RMAH, and it was in the game. Losing the RMAH is no different than losing the server. They are both access to services.

I dont see goods having value ever. Virtual items can be created on a whim, it would be like printing money. You also have the issue of potential dupes. I imagine there would be actual legal repercussions if you forged items or created items (if a blizz employee created one for example) with real value. Certainly something more harsh than a simple ban.

they added a new contract term, they didnt take something away. if they said "you can keep RMAH, but you have to agree to an arbitration provision" that is a different question.
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
September 18 2013 07:58 GMT
#143
This might actually make me reinstall D3 and even maybe buy the expansion. Good stuff. Hope you learned your lesson BLIZ
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-18 08:09:11
September 18 2013 08:02 GMT
#144
I am thrilled with this change, it does seem potentially necessary. The Auction House brought along with it too many issues that tarnished the game at its core. It truly damaged the role and purpose of items in the game; from a sought-after item to a means to an end (selling just to get a quick fix item).

Looking at it now (and the new interest), Diablo III may slowly be redeeming itself.

Edit: Side note, after browsing the thread. Virtual items hold no real value outside of the game. There is no precedent which would force Blizzard to reimburse anyone. Also, as this is a license and other the EULA, "Blizzard may change, modify, suspend, or discontinue any aspect of the Game at any time." This EULA abides by the current laws which allow it to be enforceable.

P.s. phreak, if going to voice your opinion on the matter. Best avoid misrepresenting the situation when discussing entities like EULAs.
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
shirtman
Profile Joined April 2010
178 Posts
September 18 2013 08:08 GMT
#145
Currently, at a certain point of your gear quality, you are forced to use the auction house if you want to progress.

Looting just isn't much fun. Do I even pick up that hellrack? Oh a stormshield with a good block rating. I might be able to sell it cheaply!

I agree with Blizzard decision 100% if Loot 2.0 turns out good.
Winning internet arguments since it was cool.
Nilrem
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3684 Posts
September 18 2013 08:16 GMT
#146
On September 18 2013 17:08 shirtman wrote:
Currently, at a certain point of your gear quality, you are forced to use the auction house if you want to progress.

Looting just isn't much fun. Do I even pick up that hellrack? Oh a stormshield with a good block rating. I might be able to sell it cheaply!

I agree with Blizzard decision 100% if Loot 2.0 turns out good.


Agreed--I remember back in Diablo 2 doing cow runs and being so happy watching a unique drop. In Diablo III, that feeling has been gone for quite some time. Now when I do runs, I hope for an item that I can sell so I may one day buy an item I need.

Oh and I have a question for you. Do you by chance have your Diablo III Pc box with you? Just curious what it says on the box about the Auction House (I have the CE so mine is essentially blank).
Meepo Haters gonna Hate. https://twitter.com/KazeNilrem (@KazeNilrem)
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
September 18 2013 08:34 GMT
#147
On September 18 2013 16:58 TOCHMY wrote:
This might actually make me reinstall D3 and even maybe buy the expansion. Good stuff. Hope you learned your lesson BLIZ

I think the only one who didn't learn their lesson here is you lol.
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-18 10:28:23
September 18 2013 09:49 GMT
#148
I've been raging against the RMAH since the very first day it was announced and the only reason I have refused to buy Diablo 3 is because of the RMAH.

Perhaps now I'll finally buy the game on March 18 2014, when it's gone.

It must also be said that their reason for removing the AH is flakey. They claim that they want the best way to get items to be in game. But that runs counter to the fact that Diablo 2 was a trading game, and so is Diablo 3. What trading system will they replace the AH with. If trading is discourage, and farming in-game is encourage, as their reasoning suggests, then this game will be a mindless and tedious grind. It will not be fun, and hence it will not be worth playing.

In fact, their reasoning implies that convenient trading is bad, and their argument could be used against any sufficiently convenient trading system. The ideal trading system is an improved trading post where people can choose to list what they have, what they want, or acceptable trades, similar to the trading post forums. Such a system would be a very successful way to trade and obtain items. But if they rule it out in favor of more grinding, then the game will be almost as pointless as it is now.

If you're going to have a RMAH to prevent people visiting dodgy websites to buy items for real money, which is the primary reason people used to fanatically defend the RMAH, then Blizzard should also sell bots for real money, for exactly the same reason.
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-18 10:15:43
September 18 2013 10:10 GMT
#149
On September 18 2013 17:34 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2013 16:58 TOCHMY wrote:
This might actually make me reinstall D3 and even maybe buy the expansion. Good stuff. Hope you learned your lesson BLIZ

I think the only one who didn't learn their lesson here is you lol.


I don't quite understand what you mean. That I might buy the expansion even though D3 sucked? Please illuminate me.

Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
resoLVer1.0
Profile Joined October 2011
Russian Federation125 Posts
September 18 2013 10:33 GMT
#150
Won't be surprised if they stop DIII support soon after the RoS release. I'm quite sure RMAH earned lots of money for Blizz, and stopping it isn't something rational - unless they just want haters to buy the addon. Now those who were screaming "burn it with fire!" on forums are happy, and those who liked the original D3 loot system will "just try" anyways. Kinda win-win situation in that case.
But no one will care about those haters when they'll find out that the best stuff is now sold on eBay, and no one needs the gold they've farmed.
shirtman
Profile Joined April 2010
178 Posts
September 18 2013 10:45 GMT
#151
On September 18 2013 17:16 Nilrem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2013 17:08 shirtman wrote:
Currently, at a certain point of your gear quality, you are forced to use the auction house if you want to progress.

Looting just isn't much fun. Do I even pick up that hellrack? Oh a stormshield with a good block rating. I might be able to sell it cheaply!

I agree with Blizzard decision 100% if Loot 2.0 turns out good.


Agreed--I remember back in Diablo 2 doing cow runs and being so happy watching a unique drop. In Diablo III, that feeling has been gone for quite some time. Now when I do runs, I hope for an item that I can sell so I may one day buy an item I need.

Oh and I have a question for you. Do you by chance have your Diablo III Pc box with you? Just curious what it says on the box about the Auction House (I have the CE so mine is essentially blank).


I have the digital version. Can someone else go check? Thanks.
Winning internet arguments since it was cool.
woreyour
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
582 Posts
September 18 2013 10:46 GMT
#152
I am not sure if this is good or just bad.

I think this is bad. So bad. What would be the next thing? go backwards? go to forums, hard to get by players and get scammed? Even with the billions of gold in AH and all that shitty prices, AH is still a good alternative.

For solutions well we have loot 2.0 to wait and see. They can also implement some bound items shit OP items that are bound. Farming items only and shit.

They must improve Arena PvP to keep people striving for better "PvP" to keep on farming and playing to kill each other inside arena. That is my vision of a better D3 expansion. Does not matter if you always get killed as long as you have people to kill.
I am so sexy.. I sometimes romance myself..
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-18 11:05:21
September 18 2013 10:53 GMT
#153
On September 18 2013 03:17 masterbreti wrote:
This is an awful decision by Blizzard. Why are they taking out the best part of the game just to appease a few people? It makes no sense to me.

For me the AH was an easy way to earn a bit of gold and be able to get items i needed and would take months to farm on my own. Now Gold is worthless, everything i farm is too, and it'll take me months to farm a single gem because I don't sit around playing all day in order to be able to farm one efficiently.

I won't be playing Diablo 3 anymore once this goes through. Waste of time now.

play the console version drops are incredible making your whole post a red herring non starter with loot 2.0. I already found better stuff in 100 hours than I bought from 10s of billions of flipping let alone found in 1000 hrs of PC version.


drops had to be bad to make AH wroth blizzards time and expense and decent profit. They made inapplicable and crappy items drop 99.99% of the time so you had to traffic in AH. Now you get INT items if you're a witch doctor and good ones too. I got a Homunculus - with 10 crit -20 dogs and 120-562 dam. Compare that to old one.
MC for president
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
September 18 2013 11:37 GMT
#154
On September 18 2013 18:49 paralleluniverse wrote:
I've been raging against the RMAH since the very first day it was announced and the only reason I have refused to buy Diablo 3 is because of the RMAH.

Perhaps now I'll finally buy the game on March 18 2014, when it's gone.

It must also be said that their reason for removing the AH is flakey. They claim that they want the best way to get items to be in game. But that runs counter to the fact that Diablo 2 was a trading game, and so is Diablo 3. What trading system will they replace the AH with. If trading is discourage, and farming in-game is encourage, as their reasoning suggests, then this game will be a mindless and tedious grind. It will not be fun, and hence it will not be worth playing.

In fact, their reasoning implies that convenient trading is bad, and their argument could be used against any sufficiently convenient trading system. The ideal trading system is an improved trading post where people can choose to list what they have, what they want, or acceptable trades, similar to the trading post forums. Such a system would be a very successful way to trade and obtain items. But if they rule it out in favor of more grinding, then the game will be almost as pointless as it is now.

If you're going to have a RMAH to prevent people visiting dodgy websites to buy items for real money, which is the primary reason people used to fanatically defend the RMAH, then Blizzard should also sell bots for real money, for exactly the same reason.

I'm not sure the "everyone were trading in D2" sentiment is really accurate.

Maybe your friends and D2 contacts traded, but would guess (have no data though) the vast majority of the D2 players did like me and only played it single player, or at most with their friends over LAN or so. A bit like it is tempting to think that all SC 2 play a lot of 1on1 if you are in high master, while the vast majority almost never touch 1on1.

I flipped in D3 on the AH, but I have no intention of going to third party sites to continue trade, or spend in trade channels to bargain, and I think that the big majority of D3 players will not go to third party sites to trade when the AHs close.
resoLVer1.0
Profile Joined October 2011
Russian Federation125 Posts
September 18 2013 11:42 GMT
#155
On September 18 2013 19:53 tdt wrote:
play the console version drops are incredible making your whole post a red herring non starter with loot 2.0. I already found better stuff in 100 hours than I bought from 10s of billions of flipping let alone found in 1000 hrs of PC version.


drops had to be bad to make AH wroth blizzards time and expense and decent profit. They made inapplicable and crappy items drop 99.99% of the time so you had to traffic in AH. Now you get INT items if you're a witch doctor and good ones too. I got a Homunculus - with 10 crit -20 dogs and 120-562 dam. Compare that to old one.

If they will indeed make it possible to get all the best items from drops, then you will have nothing left to do in D3 after like 1 month of farming. And the only option I see to make this case possible - fixing the most of "useful" affixes on legendary loot and decreasing dramatically their value deviation, so the loot system become smth like WoW. Otherwise you will always find better items on 3rd party AHs. Just because your chance to find the best item in game will be 1/10mill. Blizzard can also introduce PvP stuff as "end-game" and rename the game to "World of Diablo". Though without monthly fee Blizzard will cease supporting it in like half of a year.
Noorgrin
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany116 Posts
September 18 2013 11:43 GMT
#156
if they add their "Loot 2.0 system" and Ladder seasons, i am just fine with removing the AH ... even tho RMAH never was a thing for me, since i only played HC.
Q(-_-Q)
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
September 18 2013 12:19 GMT
#157
On September 18 2013 20:37 Cascade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2013 18:49 paralleluniverse wrote:
I've been raging against the RMAH since the very first day it was announced and the only reason I have refused to buy Diablo 3 is because of the RMAH.

Perhaps now I'll finally buy the game on March 18 2014, when it's gone.

It must also be said that their reason for removing the AH is flakey. They claim that they want the best way to get items to be in game. But that runs counter to the fact that Diablo 2 was a trading game, and so is Diablo 3. What trading system will they replace the AH with. If trading is discourage, and farming in-game is encourage, as their reasoning suggests, then this game will be a mindless and tedious grind. It will not be fun, and hence it will not be worth playing.

In fact, their reasoning implies that convenient trading is bad, and their argument could be used against any sufficiently convenient trading system. The ideal trading system is an improved trading post where people can choose to list what they have, what they want, or acceptable trades, similar to the trading post forums. Such a system would be a very successful way to trade and obtain items. But if they rule it out in favor of more grinding, then the game will be almost as pointless as it is now.

If you're going to have a RMAH to prevent people visiting dodgy websites to buy items for real money, which is the primary reason people used to fanatically defend the RMAH, then Blizzard should also sell bots for real money, for exactly the same reason.

I'm not sure the "everyone were trading in D2" sentiment is really accurate.

Maybe your friends and D2 contacts traded, but would guess (have no data though) the vast majority of the D2 players did like me and only played it single player, or at most with their friends over LAN or so. A bit like it is tempting to think that all SC 2 play a lot of 1on1 if you are in high master, while the vast majority almost never touch 1on1.

I flipped in D3 on the AH, but I have no intention of going to third party sites to continue trade, or spend in trade channels to bargain, and I think that the big majority of D3 players will not go to third party sites to trade when the AHs close.

This is quite correct. The vast majority of playerbase never visited d2jsp. LAN for D2 was so big, this change to the AH can only be good for the majority of people and the game itself.

It might mean there's gonna be more scamming around but whatever.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
MasterCynical
Profile Joined September 2012
505 Posts
September 18 2013 12:26 GMT
#158
The people who bought the game for the "thrill of the auction house" needs to seriously open their eyes to what blizzard and huge fanbase wants it to be.

loot 2.0 and no AH is the best new possible for Diablo 3.
Joedaddy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1948 Posts
September 18 2013 12:34 GMT
#159
On September 18 2013 03:17 masterbreti wrote:
This is an awful decision by Blizzard. Why are they taking out the best part of the game just to appease a few people? It makes no sense to me.

For me the AH was an easy way to earn a bit of gold and be able to get items i needed and would take months to farm on my own. Now Gold is worthless, everything i farm is too, and it'll take me months to farm a single gem because I don't sit around playing all day in order to be able to farm one efficiently.

I won't be playing Diablo 3 anymore once this goes through. Waste of time now.


Agreed. I can't believe they actually want us to kill monsters to get loot. Worst. Decision. Ever. I quit.
I might be the minority on TL, but TL is the minority everywhere else.
HornyHerring
Profile Joined March 2011
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
September 18 2013 12:38 GMT
#160
LOL, A HACK&SLASH GAME THAT MAKES US KILL MOBS? THAT'S RIDICULOUS!
oh, hai
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