On September 19 2013 05:48 Amnesty wrote: Look at the cost of andariels. How much is one with a socket and low penaltiy running now? When i stopped they were around 7m. I bet they are sub 1 mill now. Ones without sockets are probably free.
Loot 2.0 + AH would make every single item free. Way too much supply of everything. And its not like it needed help.. I couldn't sell freaking Ice Climbers. Now even crappy ones will be worth something. And finding them would be awesome.
Also if you just tried playing HC then you could sell those crappy Ice Climbers without any trouble, even the crappiest set item is worth millions, because there aren't so many items available things are higher valued. That's what I've been doing but I better not die when AH is gone or it's gonna be really fun getting all new items from trading @ d2jsp... will just take a few weeks and I can't power level to 60 by buying low req and socketed items easily from AH, I will have to play through the damn game on normal/nightmare/hell normally again.
Hardcore players never bitch. Get over it, or try to be social and make friends that will help you.
That answer looks like a blatant lie, now that the console version actually shows what they think good single player drop rates/itemization actually is.
Prove that the drop rates of the best items in Diablo 2 are higher than the drop rates of the best items in Diablo 3.
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
They even had a catchphrase with something like "You WILL die" and people were like "fuck yea!"
Then they tried playing it and realized they didnt want it difficult.
EDIT:
Yes.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
Diablo 2 is a trading game.
It is just as impossible in Diablo 2 to get amongst the best gear by playing self-found, without trading, as it is in Diablo 3.
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
Diablo 2 is a trading game.
It is just as impossible in Diablo 2 to get amongst the best gear by playing self-found, without trading, as it is in Diablo 3.
Diablo 2 also is a grinding game where you can actually find useful upgrades whereas Diablo III, good luck. In Diablo 2, you trade using items whereas the trading in Diablo III (and I use that term as loosely as possible) is between an item you want and gold. This is why the Auction House has been such a detriment to the game; you are not farming for upgrades, you are farming so you may sell for gold to purchase what you want.
This is not about the people with the best gear. They will still be using other sites and buying with real money. This is about the average game that wishes to have a fulfilling experience and not farm for the sake of selling for gold just to buy an upgrade.
On September 19 2013 18:26 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 18:03 Douillos wrote:
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
Diablo 2 is a trading game.
It is just as impossible in Diablo 2 to get amongst the best gear by playing self-found, without trading, as it is in Diablo 3.
Diablo 2 also is a grinding game where you can actually find useful upgrades whereas Diablo III, good luck. In Diablo 2, you trade using items whereas the trading (and I use that term as loosely as possible) is between an item you want and gold. This is why the Auction House has been such a detriment to the game; you are not farming for upgrades, you are farming so you may sell for gold to purchase what you want.
This is not about the people with the best gear. They will still be using other sites and buying with real money. This is about the average game that wishes to have a fulfilling experience and not farm for the sake of selling for gold just to buy an upgrade.
Thank you for bringin' a bit of sense into this thread.
Throughout my 650 hrs of D3 (hardcore only) I have ever found maybe one or 2 true upgrades. This is mainly because I was stuffing myself at the AH, but even when I was broke and played hour after hour, they only thing I could hope for was an item I could sell, I would never even dream of an item that I could equip...
I really believe that a) the AH going down is a good thing, b) a majority of players still playing the game think this way and c) a lot of people will be coming back once loot 2.0 is up without AH.
On September 19 2013 18:26 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 18:03 Douillos wrote:
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
Diablo 2 is a trading game.
It is just as impossible in Diablo 2 to get amongst the best gear by playing self-found, without trading, as it is in Diablo 3.
Diablo 2 also is a grinding game where you can actually find useful upgrades whereas Diablo III, good luck. In Diablo 2, you trade using items whereas the trading in Diablo III (and I use that term as loosely as possible) is between an item you want and gold. This is why the Auction House has been such a detriment to the game; you are not farming for upgrades, you are farming so you may sell for gold to purchase what you want.
This is not about the people with the best gear. They will still be using other sites and buying with real money. This is about the average game that wishes to have a fulfilling experience and not farm for the sake of selling for gold just to buy an upgrade.
So your real problem is not the need to trade to get the best items, it's really gold. That's your actual problem with the game?
Also, no, you can't get the best gear from self-found in Diablo 2. Good luck trying to construct Enigma or Breath of the Dying without trading. It's probably even harder and more grinding than similarly powerful items in Diablo 3.
On September 19 2013 18:26 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 18:03 Douillos wrote:
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
Diablo 2 is a trading game.
It is just as impossible in Diablo 2 to get amongst the best gear by playing self-found, without trading, as it is in Diablo 3.
Diablo 2 also is a grinding game where you can actually find useful upgrades whereas Diablo III, good luck. In Diablo 2, you trade using items whereas the trading in Diablo III (and I use that term as loosely as possible) is between an item you want and gold. This is why the Auction House has been such a detriment to the game; you are not farming for upgrades, you are farming so you may sell for gold to purchase what you want.
This is not about the people with the best gear. They will still be using other sites and buying with real money. This is about the average game that wishes to have a fulfilling experience and not farm for the sake of selling for gold just to buy an upgrade.
Noone was ever trading items vs items in D2.... Unless you call Ist runes "items", but that would be just stupid - runes were currency in D2, just like gold is currency in D3. There is only formal difference between those.
About finding your own upgrades in D2... Well that is not fair statement at all. OFC you could have find your own upgrades in D2, just like you can in D3 - if you are playing without trading.
But if you were trading in D2 (either in trade channels or making WoB games, or via D2jsp etc.), then the possibility of finding your own upgrade was actually even smaller in D2 than it is in D3.
whatever happens I would still buy the game, sad but true.
I dont know what happened, but blizzard unconsciously made me their fan and I will still believe they can fix this shit that is happening.
when I was small I did not care who made those games, I just want to play. I like games like:
Command and conquer ( because I can build stuff and kill friends)
then came:
Warcraft( orcs!) Age of empires (elephants!) Red alert (tanks, and more tanks) Starcraft (Aliens and pew pew) Resident evil (zombies!) half life (kill friends, crossfire!) Counter strike ( carbine from the box and rushes,styr ogs too good, AK and dessert eagle headshots) diablo (magic, warrior and items)
I did not realize that all this time blizzard produced 3 of those fucking games and I was like ahhhhhh so they are the guys who made them, wow I like these guys, they are the best! from now on I would trust them and I am sure they wll provide me with the best.
Came: Broodwar (wow they fixed stuff and gave me the dark templar yay!) Diablo 2 (wow more heroes and ears, fucking ears to cut!) WOW (wow im an orc!)
Life was so simple before, but now my expectations are bigger, this is sad...
On September 19 2013 18:26 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 18:03 Douillos wrote:
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
Diablo 2 is a trading game.
It is just as impossible in Diablo 2 to get amongst the best gear by playing self-found, without trading, as it is in Diablo 3.
Diablo 2 also is a grinding game where you can actually find useful upgrades whereas Diablo III, good luck. In Diablo 2, you trade using items whereas the trading in Diablo III (and I use that term as loosely as possible) is between an item you want and gold. This is why the Auction House has been such a detriment to the game; you are not farming for upgrades, you are farming so you may sell for gold to purchase what you want.
This is not about the people with the best gear. They will still be using other sites and buying with real money. This is about the average gamer that wishes to have a fulfilling experience and not farm for the sake of selling for gold just to buy an upgrade.
So your real problem is not the need to trade to get the best items, it's really gold. That's your actual problem with the game?
Also, no, you can't get the best gear from self-found in Diablo 2. Good luck trying to construct Enigma or Breath of the Dying without trading. It's probably even harder and more grinding than similarly powerful items in Diablo 3.
I am beginning to question your level of reading comprehension since you seemingly missed the whole point of my post. I will do my best to hopefully explain my point so you do not make the same mistake again. My issue is neither trade or the use of gold as a currency. My issue is what the Auction House has managed to do to the purpose and role of items.
There is an item on the Auction House I want, what do I do? Well, farming for the item is pretty much useless so what I (and many others have had to do) is farm for an item but expecting an upgrade or seeking a trade, but to sell on the Auction House. Items have become a means to an end and no longer an end. This is why the trade channels now are so pathetic; why bother trying to trade an item when you can sell it on the Auction House for gold and eventually buy it. The moment when seeing an unidentified mempo drop and the thought of, "I wonder how much gold I can get from this" crossed people's mind, the game was over.
Oh and do not think I have issue with gold itself since I like gold. I think with the addition of Mystic alongside more gold-sinks and the removal of the Auction House makes gold far better. The way I believe the game should be is this. When a legendary item drops, I first think, "Oh I hope it is an upgrade". If that does not happen, I end up thinking of how I can perhaps trade it for something I need. What I do not want to happen (which is due to the Auction House) is this, "Oh a legendary item dropped, I wonder how much gold I can sell it for".
It may seem like I am being redundant but that is so to make sure you understand what my issue is. Oh and lastly this part of your comment:
Also, no, you can't get the best gear from self-found in Diablo 2. Good luck trying to construct Enigma or Breath of the Dying without trading. It's probably even harder and more grinding than similarly powerful items in Diablo 3.
Did you even read what I said? I even specifically mentioned this was not about people with the best gear. At least in Diablo 2 you can work toward making Enigma and others (even at a snails pace) by combing runes whereas Diablo III there is no progression, just immediate gratification brought on by a broken system is to many people's joy, is now going away. Next time, do put some effort in actually reading what was said so not to make a fool of yourself again.
On September 19 2013 19:29 Sek-Kuar wrote: Noone was ever trading items vs items in D2.... Unless you call Ist runes "items", but that would be just stupid - runes were currency in D2, just like gold is currency in D3. There is only formal difference between those.
Just going to say this quick before bouncing for now. Exaggerating to make a point hurts your credibility. There were rooms and traders out there that were trading items for items (often more bulk than anything else). Also, perhaps you had forgotten, there was a time when SoJ acted as a form of currency. Even bulk P-gems had trading value for the needy.
So the "difference" was not mere formality between the two but much more.
On September 19 2013 19:29 Sek-Kuar wrote: Noone was ever trading items vs items in D2.... Unless you call Ist runes "items", but that would be just stupid - runes were currency in D2, just like gold is currency in D3. There is only formal difference between those.
Just going to say this quick before bouncing for now. Exaggerating to make a point hurts your credibility. There were rooms and traders out there that were trading items for items (often more bulk than anything else). Also, perhaps you had forgotten, there was a time when SoJ acted as a form of currency. Even bulk P-gems had trading value for the needy.
So the "difference" was not mere formality between the two but much more.
Its exactly as you said: SoJ was currency, PGs were currency... Trading in D2 was never about item vs item except for few common items, but its always about exchanging item you dont want vs currency, and then currency vs item you want.
Whether currency is SoJ, FG, PG, gold or Ist means nothing. Strictly speaking even gold is an item. But direct item vs item trade was never possible in D2 except for like Arreat vs Shako, nothing that really mattered.
Either way if you wanted to trade something better than occulus, like rare or crafted rings etc., it was always done via currency, and D3 is no different in this than D2 was.
In D2 there were tons of upgrades you found mostly yourself on the way to the "BIS" stuff.
FFS i ran around with lvl 5X Skelletons (45 or something with max-res equip) on my Summoner (only char at that time) whiteout ever owning a rune more worth than PUL (which made me sad ) or any "big" runeword for that matter... I wasn't big on trading... I never did rune-runs or gem-farming.. All i did was "walk" to Baal killing everything in my way and trading uniques/sets that dropped for other uniques/sets... Or I kept them for my next char or if I could make a really good deal... I did this again and again (from lvl 74 - 91? Nearly allways solo).
D3? Who cares.. Need Gold.
In later seasons i traded perf. gems for stuff... It went quicker, naturally... But in the end.. The exact same items that were hard to get were still hard to get ^^.
On September 19 2013 19:11 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 18:36 Nilrem wrote:
On September 19 2013 18:26 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 18:03 Douillos wrote:
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
Diablo 2 is a trading game.
It is just as impossible in Diablo 2 to get amongst the best gear by playing self-found, without trading, as it is in Diablo 3.
Diablo 2 also is a grinding game where you can actually find useful upgrades whereas Diablo III, good luck. In Diablo 2, you trade using items whereas the trading in Diablo III (and I use that term as loosely as possible) is between an item you want and gold. This is why the Auction House has been such a detriment to the game; you are not farming for upgrades, you are farming so you may sell for gold to purchase what you want.
This is not about the people with the best gear. They will still be using other sites and buying with real money. This is about the average gamer that wishes to have a fulfilling experience and not farm for the sake of selling for gold just to buy an upgrade.
So your real problem is not the need to trade to get the best items, it's really gold. That's your actual problem with the game?
Also, no, you can't get the best gear from self-found in Diablo 2. Good luck trying to construct Enigma or Breath of the Dying without trading. It's probably even harder and more grinding than similarly powerful items in Diablo 3.
I am beginning to question your level of reading comprehension since you seemingly missed the whole point of my post. I will do my best to hopefully explain my point so you do not make the same mistake again. My issue is neither trade or the use of gold as a currency. My issue is what the Auction House has managed to do to the purpose and role of items.
There is an item on the Auction House I want, what do I do? Well, farming for the item is pretty much useless so what I (and many others have had to do) is farm for an item but expecting an upgrade or seeking a trade, but to sell on the Auction House. Items have become a means to an end and no longer an end. This is why the trade channels now are so pathetic; why bother trying to trade an item when you can sell it on the Auction House for gold and eventually buy it. The moment when seeing an unidentified mempo drop and the thought of, "I wonder how much gold I can get from this" crossed people's mind, the game was over.
Oh and do not think I have issue with gold itself since I like gold. I think with the addition of Mystic alongside more gold-sinks and the removal of the Auction House makes gold far better. The way I believe the game should be is this. When a legendary item drops, I first think, "Oh I hope it is an upgrade". If that does not happen, I end up thinking of how I can perhaps trade it for something I need. What I do not want to happen (which is due to the Auction House) is this, "Oh a legendary item dropped, I wonder how much gold I can sell it for".
It may seem like I am being redundant but that is so to make sure you understand what my issue is. Oh and lastly this part of your comment:
Also, no, you can't get the best gear from self-found in Diablo 2. Good luck trying to construct Enigma or Breath of the Dying without trading. It's probably even harder and more grinding than similarly powerful items in Diablo 3.
Did you even read what I said? I even specifically mentioned this was not about people with the best gear. At least in Diablo 2 you can work toward making Enigma and others (even at a snails pace) by combing runes whereas Diablo III there is no progression, just immediate gratification brought on by a broken system is to many people's joy, is now going away. Next time, do put some effort in actually reading what was said so not to make a fool of yourself again.
On September 19 2013 19:29 Sek-Kuar wrote: Noone was ever trading items vs items in D2.... Unless you call Ist runes "items", but that would be just stupid - runes were currency in D2, just like gold is currency in D3. There is only formal difference between those.
Just going to say this quick before bouncing for now. Exaggerating to make a point hurts your credibility. There were rooms and traders out there that were trading items for items (often more bulk than anything else). Also, perhaps you had forgotten, there was a time when SoJ acted as a form of currency. Even bulk P-gems had trading value for the needy.
So the "difference" was not mere formality between the two but much more.
I understood you just fine. You're issue is with gold and the fact that items are sold for gold. Here, let me quote you:
When a legendary item drops, I first think, "Oh I hope it is an upgrade". If that does not happen, I end up thinking of how I can perhaps trade it for something I need. What I do not want to happen (which is due to the Auction House) is this, "Oh a legendary item dropped, I wonder how much gold I can sell it for".
This is a dumb complaint because the removal of the AH won't stop people using gold as a currency. What you want is a way to stop items being traded for gold, something that is impossible without stopping all trade.
Also, no you can't work towards the Zod rune, used to make some of the best items, when playing self-found. Either it drops or it doesn't. Chances are that even if you played 50 years straight, it won't drop for you. You need hundreds of thousands of people (one is not enough) playing for months to see it enter the economy.
So your complaints make no sense. And you're perspective of what Diablo 2 is, is completely wrong. In multiplayer, Diablo 2 is and always will be primarily a trading game.
The difference between D2 and D3 is that D2 had a solid PvP community while D3 there is no PvP. IF the removal of the AHs actually means that they are bringing in PvP then I won't complain, because PvP with AHs would be cheating, especially if there was a SC2 ladder system. But now there is no PvP, it's pointless to remove AH because no one cares if other people have better gear than you, I play with people who have Star gems in their items and I play with top 5 DPS characters, I don't care.
Throughout my 650 hrs of D3 (hardcore only) I have ever found maybe one or 2 true upgrades. This is mainly because I was stuffing myself at the AH, but even when I was broke and played hour after hour, they only thing I could hope for was an item I could sell, I would never even dream of an item that I could equip...
Wow man, I found loads of upgrades on HC including two WHs, one with 250 str + vit and I'm a barb. My friend found a godly monk weapon but since he wasn't playing monk he sold it for 500m and got himself some zuni upgrades instead, quite convenient won't you say?
Also ever since 1.07 people don't play to find gold, the main reason for farming was to get Demonic Essences to craft insanely powerful gear that you CAN'T buy on AH. Introducing more items like these and the Hellfire rings which are BoA would solve the "buy everything from AH" completely and I'm still shocked that Blizz decided to be lazy and just remove the AHs instead of coming up with a proper solution with BoA items.
But what pisses me off is that they didn't even mention any trading system that would replace AH or something that would make trading easier, they honestly thought everyone would be happy about this change and just went: "sup, we're removing AH, no good reason why but don't expect any good trading system cuz people apparently hate trading in a loot game".
Ah well, trading will continue on d2jsp, I've bought unids for 3b gold or more there and it's a load of fun, they better introduce buying unids from vendors in the game itself.
I'm one of the "mixed feeling" ones over here. I loathed the fact that instead of finding good gear or weapons by youself, the game was originally designed to make you buy them in the AH. But on the other hand, I bought HotS with the money I made by playing D3 in the RMAH, and I was already planning to buy LotV with what I would make out of RoS. Oh well, certainly the game will be much more interesting to play now and less of a lesson on economics and speculation.
On September 19 2013 17:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 19 2013 12:55 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 19 2013 11:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: I don't even know why people bother quoting Blizzard when it comes to their PR statements. Almost everything they said in the first 5 months was completely contradicted by the next 10 months of updates and design changes.
Hell, when Jay Wilson was removed as game director for D3, he even came out and said the version of Inferno they tested was 1/4th (maybe lower?) the difficulty of the game that they shipped. They had playtesters beat the game, then quadrupled the monster values because they thought millions of players would accelerate the item grind too much.
It's much easier to write-off the entire first half-year of D3's lifespan as a circus act.
Before launch, everyone was completely obsessed with how hard the game was going to be and the fact that they're going to love the difficulty, and that it would take weeks to complete. But anyone who had played WoW would have easily realized, people love saying that they love hard things, but in truth they hate hard things and when it's hard, the cries for nerfs are loud and endless. Also, Inferno was beaten in 4 days as I had predicted before launch.
The fact is most people are clueless about what they want. While hard Inferno was the FotM pre-launch, the newest fad which everyone including Blizzard has now jumped on is self-found gear. Or in plainspeak: encouraging more grinding. With their bogus reasoning for removing the AH (removing the AH is great, the reason for removing it is fail) and the support of their short-sighted fans, Blizzard is now moving full steam ahead to shift the focus of Diablo from a trading game, into a grinding game.
And there's only so much grinding/farming/self-found that one can take before they quit due to tedium, boredom and burn-out. If they continue with this design philosophy, the game will fail again. People will not engage with this boring grind.
How can you say that when people were still playing diablo 2 10 years after it came out.
A hack and slash is a grinding game. You guys just don't know what you are talking about. I can't understand how people support this shitty side of the game. "Oh but i like spending hours in the AH", " OMG I'm gona sue blizz 'cause they sold me an RMAH".
I don't even know why i'm engaging a conversation here, where most people should be playing a wallstreet simulator instead of Diablo.
you apparently do not understand the argument concerning RMAH, so you should not engage in the conversation.
On September 19 2013 22:33 Ender985 wrote: *jaw drops to the floor*
I'm one of the "mixed feeling" ones over here. I loathed the fact that instead of finding good gear or weapons by youself, the game was originally designed to make you buy them in the AH. But on the other hand, I bought HotS with the money I made by playing D3 in the RMAH, and I was already planning to buy LotV with what I would make out of RoS. Oh well, certainly the game will be much more interesting to play now and less of a lesson on economics and speculation.
I'm semi-hoping they at least provide an outlet to buy and sell items for real money without an auction house. Because it's going to happen one way or another and by not facilitating the means to purchase items with real money, Blizzard just loses out on a cut from players who'll do it in spite of the ToS.
On September 19 2013 19:29 Sek-Kuar wrote: Noone was ever trading items vs items in D2.... Unless you call Ist runes "items", but that would be just stupid - runes were currency in D2, just like gold is currency in D3. There is only formal difference between those.
Just going to say this quick before bouncing for now. Exaggerating to make a point hurts your credibility. There were rooms and traders out there that were trading items for items (often more bulk than anything else). Also, perhaps you had forgotten, there was a time when SoJ acted as a form of currency. Even bulk P-gems had trading value for the needy.
So the "difference" was not mere formality between the two but much more.
Its exactly as you said: SoJ was currency, PGs were currency... Trading in D2 was never about item vs item except for few common items, but its always about exchanging item you dont want vs currency, and then currency vs item you want.
Whether currency is SoJ, FG, PG, gold or Ist means nothing. Strictly speaking even gold is an item. But direct item vs item trade was never possible in D2 except for like Arreat vs Shako, nothing that really mattered.
Either way if you wanted to trade something better than occulus, like rare or crafted rings etc., it was always done via currency, and D3 is no different in this than D2 was.
D3 is definitely different than D2 in how currency functioned. Gold is a much more accessible currency than pseudo-currency in items. There was a natural barrier of entry on item quality before you could earn your first SoJ or HR in a trade. These items were used directly in creating the best gear available.
Direct item trades were definitely possible and were common. The prices and values of items were pretty dead set in stone. It just wasn't ideal cause of how difficult it is finding the right trade.
EPT
) or any "big" runeword for that matter... I wasn't big on trading... I never did rune-runs or gem-farming..
