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On April 02 2014 11:49 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 11:45 Dakkas wrote:On April 02 2014 10:29 LingsAreBunnies wrote:On April 02 2014 09:33 Dakkas wrote:On April 02 2014 04:34 LingsAreBunnies wrote:
stuff like +%fire damage from skills should increase damage when you use skills of the corresponding elements right? Im talking about the affixes elemental skills do x% more damage, not the +% elemental damage. isnt that just a flat % increase over w/e the element is? guess I probably just didnt get enough for it to be noticeable, just wanted to make sure before I commit more slots to it. They're the same thing, I just worded them differently. On April 02 2014 10:52 Foxxan wrote:getting some +%fire skill damage on my barb, I didnt see any significant increase from my HotA-smash/cleave-reaping swing/avalanche-volcano damage compared to before. Just wanted to confirm before I stack more. Yes it does, +% Elemental damage is the third best damage increase behind crit chance and crit damage. For something like a wizard that generally doesn't care about elemental damage, +% elemental damage is a huge boost because it increases the base damage of the skill BEFORE it gets multiplied by your main stat. On April 02 2014 10:20 Amui wrote:On April 02 2014 09:58 Foxxan wrote:On April 02 2014 09:33 Dakkas wrote:On April 02 2014 04:34 LingsAreBunnies wrote:
stuff like +%fire damage from skills should increase damage when you use skills of the corresponding elements right? getting some +%fire skill damage on my barb, I didnt see any significant increase from my HotA-smash/cleave-reaping swing/avalanche-volcano damage compared to before. Just wanted to confirm before I stack more. Yes it does, +% Elemental damage is the third best damage increase behind crit chance and crit damage. For something like a wizard that generally doesn't care about elemental damage, +% elemental damage is a huge boost because it increases the base damage of the skill BEFORE it gets multiplied by your main stat. Elemental damage is the number one actually. Crit chance is actually higher than element damage per affix slot once you get into the 400+crit damage range. But if you can get all three with primary stats that would be ideal. This also depends on your current stats. You can't definitively say one is better than the other. Well i have read otherwise. The #1 damage is the x elemental dmg Its better than crit and everything else Elemental damage will beat CC/CD individually however it plateaus much sooner than CC/CD and doesn't scale exponentially like CC/CD does. So provide math then or else i believe that other text. You have the elemental dmg + the skill increase to They scale good
I don't know why you're being so obtuse, do you have vested interest to believe in a source that you're also not providing? What's different between what you're doing and what I'm saying?
Anyway, I'll humour you. Anyone with better maths, feel free to correct me.
Let's give a very generous assumption here that I have +70% elemental damage. This means for one particular element, you are doing 70% more damage than other elements. If I do 100 fire damage, it becomes 170 fire damage. Simple, no?
Another situation, going off my Barbarian that can do Torment 2. I have base 50% Crit Chance and 350% Crit Damage. These aren't even very high, especially compared to people that do higher Torment levels who easily reach 500%+ Crit Damage. I'm not even factoring in the +Crit Chance on Overpower and Battle Rage which brings me up to 61% Crit Chance.
My example means that for every 10 attacks, 5 of them will crit and instead do 3.5 times normal damage. So following my previous example if I do 100 damage, a crit will instead be 350 damage instead. Averaging out, this is equivalent to 225 damage per hit.
In this case the + elemental damage is doing 170 damage per attack while the CC/CD is doing 225 damage per attack. This isn't even factoring in that elemental damage only works on a specific element, if you have skills of other elements then you're not getting any bonus. CC/CD works on everything.
Of course getting +elemental damage is much easier since it's only one stat and CC/CD is two but that doesn't change that CC/CD is still king. + elemental damage has just made it easier to do great damage but you'll still need CC/CD to do insane damage.
EDIT: Listen to what Duka said below.
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On April 02 2014 12:16 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 11:49 Foxxan wrote:On April 02 2014 11:45 Dakkas wrote:On April 02 2014 10:29 LingsAreBunnies wrote:On April 02 2014 09:33 Dakkas wrote:On April 02 2014 04:34 LingsAreBunnies wrote:
stuff like +%fire damage from skills should increase damage when you use skills of the corresponding elements right? Im talking about the affixes elemental skills do x% more damage, not the +% elemental damage. isnt that just a flat % increase over w/e the element is? guess I probably just didnt get enough for it to be noticeable, just wanted to make sure before I commit more slots to it. They're the same thing, I just worded them differently. On April 02 2014 10:52 Foxxan wrote:getting some +%fire skill damage on my barb, I didnt see any significant increase from my HotA-smash/cleave-reaping swing/avalanche-volcano damage compared to before. Just wanted to confirm before I stack more. Yes it does, +% Elemental damage is the third best damage increase behind crit chance and crit damage. For something like a wizard that generally doesn't care about elemental damage, +% elemental damage is a huge boost because it increases the base damage of the skill BEFORE it gets multiplied by your main stat. On April 02 2014 10:20 Amui wrote:On April 02 2014 09:58 Foxxan wrote:On April 02 2014 09:33 Dakkas wrote:On April 02 2014 04:34 LingsAreBunnies wrote:
stuff like +%fire damage from skills should increase damage when you use skills of the corresponding elements right? getting some +%fire skill damage on my barb, I didnt see any significant increase from my HotA-smash/cleave-reaping swing/avalanche-volcano damage compared to before. Just wanted to confirm before I stack more. Yes it does, +% Elemental damage is the third best damage increase behind crit chance and crit damage. For something like a wizard that generally doesn't care about elemental damage, +% elemental damage is a huge boost because it increases the base damage of the skill BEFORE it gets multiplied by your main stat. Elemental damage is the number one actually. Crit chance is actually higher than element damage per affix slot once you get into the 400+crit damage range. But if you can get all three with primary stats that would be ideal. This also depends on your current stats. You can't definitively say one is better than the other. Well i have read otherwise. The #1 damage is the x elemental dmg Its better than crit and everything else Elemental damage will beat CC/CD individually however it plateaus much sooner than CC/CD and doesn't scale exponentially like CC/CD does. So provide math then or else i believe that other text. You have the elemental dmg + the skill increase to They scale good I don't know why you're being so obtuse, do you have vested interest to believe in a source that you're also not providing? What's different between what you're doing and what I'm saying? Anyway, I'll humour you. Anyone with better maths, feel free to correct me. Let's give a very generous assumption here that I have +70% elemental damage. This means for one particular element, you are doing 70% more damage than other elements. If I do 100 fire damage, it becomes 170 fire damage. Simple, no? Another situation, going off my Barbarian that can do Torment 2. I have base 50% Crit Chance and 350% Crit Damage. These aren't even very high, especially compared to people that do higher Torment levels who easily reach 500%+ Crit Damage. I'm not even factoring in the +Crit Chance on Overpower and Battle Rage which brings me up to 61% Crit Chance. My example means that for every 10 attacks, 5 of them will crit and instead do 3.5 times normal damage. So following my previous example if I do 100 damage, a crit will instead be 350 damage instead. Averaging out, this is equivalent to 175 damage per hit. In this case the + elemental damage is doing 170 damage per attack while the CC/CD is doing 175 damage per attack. This isn't even factoring in that elemental damage only works on a specific element, if you have skills of other elements then you're not getting any bonus. CC/CD works on everything. Of course getting +elemental damage is much easier since it's only one stat and CC/CD is two but that doesn't change that CC/CD is still king. + elemental damage has just made it easier to do great damage but you'll still need CC/CD to do insane damage.
Is 70% elemental damage roughly equivalent (as far as affixes go) to 50% crit and 350% crit damage? I don't mean as far as DPS goes, I mean are they roughly similar "levels of gear needed". If you pulled both sets of numbers out of thin air you can't compare the two unless they're roughly "equivalent" as far as gear level goes. Actually asking here, not nitpicking.
Also, if you do 5 attacks for 100 and 5 attacks for 350, the average is actually 225 per attack, not 175.
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Based purely on my own experiences, I'd say +70% elemental damage is harder to get. 15% off gloves, bracers, amulet and two rings. That's 75%. There are items that also give it though I don't know them off the top of my head. I think maybe helms as well?
Additionally if your'e re-rolling, would you pick +elemental damage or +CC/CD? You'd pick +CC/CD because the math proves that CC/CD scales considerably better than anything else. The mystic made it even easier to get large amounts of CC/CD, now you just need to find an item with Main state/CC or CD and then reroll for the one you're missing. Additionally most of my CD is from socketing weapons. Again this is pretty easy because how easy it is to get high level gems.
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I was just curious. I'm not sure how hard something like 50-70% elemental damage would be to obtain off the top of my head. I think at lower levels of gear like when starting Torment 1, elemental damage is probably similar to crit in strength, but the scaling with crit chance AND crit damage gets out of control quickly
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Caldeum1977 Posts
Elemental damage multiplies your damage once it has gone through crit calculations though, so it is stronger the more crit and crit damage you have.
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On April 02 2014 12:49 Valiver wrote:
Elemental damage multiplies your damage once it has gone through crit calculations though, so it is stronger the more crit and crit damage you have.
If crit and elemental damage are both multiplicative then it wouldn't matter which order it occurred in...? Also, yes, it's stronger when you have more crit simply because you're doing more damage. But does that make it favorable over just getting MORE cc/cd? I doubt it.
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On April 02 2014 12:45 Duka08 wrote:
I was just curious. I'm not sure how hard something like 50-70% elemental damage would be to obtain off the top of my head. I think at lower levels of gear like when starting Torment 1, elemental damage is probably similar to crit in strength, but the scaling with crit chance AND crit damage gets out of control quickly
That's true, elemental damage is the best single stat for damage increase but does plateau very quickly and has constraints on what skills you use.
On April 02 2014 12:49 Valiver wrote:
Elemental damage multiplies your damage once it has gone through crit calculations though, so it is stronger the more crit and crit damage you have.
And CC/CD also gets multiplied by elemental damage! Wow, maths! Just how do you work?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Anduirells visage gives %elemental on headpiece iirc and thundergods vigor gives on belt but only lightning(not sure if possible to reroll, prolly not).
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Caldeum1977 Posts
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It's as if you completed ignored my post and every post I've made on the matter......
Is it because I didn't put a TL;DR? It was, wasn't it?
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On April 02 2014 13:04 Valiver wrote:
6% crit will be about 9% sheet dps.
With exactly 150% crit damage, yes lol
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On April 02 2014 13:19 Duka08 wrote:With exactly 150% crit damage, yes lol
My wizard has just under 400% crit damage and the 6% crit on my bracers is worth 8.43% sheet dps.
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On April 02 2014 13:06 Dakkas wrote:It's as if you completed ignored my post and every post I've made on the matter...... Is it because I didn't put a TL;DR? It was, wasn't it?
You forgot one piece of the puzzle
The skill dmg increase
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Yeah, that's a totally fair comparison. Let's compare total CD with the CC on one single item.
On April 02 2014 13:36 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:06 Dakkas wrote:It's as if you completed ignored my post and every post I've made on the matter...... Is it because I didn't put a TL;DR? It was, wasn't it? You forgot one piece of the puzzle The skill dmg increase
God, are you being paid by someone to do this? + elemental damage and CC/CD increase skill damage in the same way.
What about YOU lay down the maths? So far it's all been you demanding things and giving NO evidence whatsoever. I've given evidence, you have just essentially said "No".
The burden of proof is on you.
EDIT: I'll humour you again:
100 base damage, with +70% elemental damage and a 650% damage skill. 170 * 650 = 110500
100 base damage with 50% CC and 350% CD and a 650% damage skill. 225 * 650 = 146250.
Heck I'll go one further and give you a theoretical 100% elemental damage (impossible) compared to real high-end CC/CD.
100 base damage, with +100% elemental damage and a 650% damage skill. 200 * 650 = 130000
With an impossible +elemental damage, it still loses to above-average CC/CD!
Now for high-end CC/CD.
60% CC with 500% CD averages to 340 damage per attack. 340 * 650 = 221000.
The difference becomes even more pronounced. The weaker the skill, the smaller the difference (naturally because maths) and the stronger the skill, the bigger the difference.
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On April 02 2014 13:38 Dakkas wrote:Yeah, that's a totally fair comparison. Let's compare total CD with the CC on one single item. Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 13:36 Foxxan wrote:On April 02 2014 13:06 Dakkas wrote:It's as if you completed ignored my post and every post I've made on the matter...... Is it because I didn't put a TL;DR? It was, wasn't it? You forgot one piece of the puzzle The skill dmg increase God, are you being paid by someone to do this? + elemental damage and CC/CD increase skill damage in the same way. What about YOU lay down the maths? So far it's all been you demanding things and giving NO evidence whatsoever. I've given evidence, you have just essentially said "No". The burden of proof is on you. EDIT: I'll humour you again: 100 base damage, with +70% elemental damage and a 650% damage skill. 170 * 650 = 110500 100 base damage with 50% CC and 350% CD and a 650% damage skill. 225 * 650 = 146250. Numbers don't lie kid.
You first do the elemental damage, lets say you have 50%
So the skill you are gonna use is hota with the smash
That is:
640
*
1.5
=960
Then you have hota increase by 15%(i have never seen higher than this)
950*1.15=1104
I know this scales well.
Cant do the crit thing cuz my head will explode
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Okay, I'll summarise this for you.
In terms on one single stat, +elemental damage is the strongest single stat. It beats Crit Chance OR Crit Damage.
In terms of combination of stats, Crit Chance and Crit Damage will beat any other combination.
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what's the most efficient way to solo farm bloodshards? do bounties on master or run through rifts really fast on normal? trying to gamble frostburns
actually im not totally sure it'd even be worth giving up either crit/crit or vit for another 10% cold with my current gear... where do you guys think the best place to upgrade for me is? http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/raukolith-1578/hero/32918353 obviously doesn't show rerolls, i rerolled glove/helm/rings to crit and ammy to cold%
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If you haven't, reroll your Azurewrath to Int and drop the Vit.
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Try to get 5.5+CC/40+CHD int rings, with the 4th stat being either +damage, ias, or vit depending on your needs. Same goes for amulet, but aim for 9+/90+, and preferably element% or damage+int.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Porouscloud-1152/hero/26565446. Here's my char for reference, although almost everything has been rerolled and doesn't show.
You'll need to find a way to stay tanky enough to survive T1/T2 which is what most people run. My baseline is 5m buffed, but other people's opinions may vary. No real need to gem all resist because int gives roughly 1/3 the all resist of a diamond while providing a sizable DPS boost.
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EPT
