|
On June 01 2012 15:15 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:31 semantics wrote:
I hear you can be hacked by playing public games in d3.
It's completely untrue blizzard blue's have even made statements saying those rumors are unfounded and no proof has ever been presented to them just wild theories that would not even work.
Funny how you can hear something and it can end up not being true at all.
...
The majority of game hacks are from people giving away their info though phishing attempts or dling not so wise things. People think hackers take your info as soon as they get a email as password when it easily could have been gathered months in advance and as long as you don't change your password which most people don't they have you. Oh but wait there more something called trolls on the Internet who claim they have been hacked and have auth's but never provide any proof such as a simple ss of their stash and gold amounts. i hear company employees would never release assuring statements that would calm jittery customers even when said statements weren't entirely true. they would never bury truth that may potentially hurt their customer base and total revenue. i've had 2 very different RL friends be hacked. one is a fucking retard and uses the same username and password for all his accounts (he told me so) including his online banking account, paypal, amazon. the other is currently an Information Systems major at a top university and is someone i would consider very internet saavy. he's interned for Northrup Grumman in their IT department and basically helped advise a multi-billion dollar government contracting agency on keeping their network safe from cyberterrorists. he was part of a project that ended up getting some medal from the CIA for cybersecurity. of course both are at fault for using unsafe internet practices and allowing their [stash + inventory of last character played] to get emptied out. of course the retard should just be glad that his real money shit didn't get cleared out because we all know that D3 items are far more valuable. does the fact that the rate of hacking in D3 greatly exceed the rate of hacking in ANY OTHER SERVICE not make you raise an eyebrow? i don't know anybody IRL who has had their bank account emptied out by an online predator. now within the span of two weeks 2 of the 12 or so RL friends who play D3 have been hacked. what makes you so confident that blizzard isn't at fault?
Is it a fact? You'll need the actual blizz numbers dealing with customer support claims you forget this is the Internet, and people troll, oh yeah i'm a doctor you can trust what i say. So 2 out of 12 friends got hacked, how many of those 12 friends also play other games that are prime hacking targets, MMO's and other games with in game currencies and popular games too. You simply can be noticing a normal rate of people who get hacked in this kind of game but you never noticed before due to lack of all 12 of those friends and you playing the same game that is a prime hacking target.
Also your smart friend i bet doesn't use a unique password for battle.net, i know i don't, my bet is he uses the same password for all game log-ins becuase it's time consuming and hard to remember a ton of passwords or use a keychain and games are a low priority in terms of harm that can be inflicted on you if compromised.
So what's more likely blizz blue's lie-ing about the situation and nobody showing a proof of concept hack anywhere on the internet publicly. But at the same time So many hackers know how to do this that it's effecting 2 out of 13 people by your numbers at the same time none of those hackers are fool hearty enough to brag about how they did it. Oh wait that's just silly, show me a legit proof of the hack and then show that to blizzard, else all you have in unsubstantiated rumors because people's egos are so big that; no, there is no way i could be hacked my epeen is so large i'm above that all must be blizzards fault.
Phishing, key-logging or an password recovery exploit(which did exist in d2 at one point) are still far more likely then what has been going around, the idea of session id hijacking which is not even what d3 uses. I'm actually shooting that it's a password recovery exploit that one of the major gold traders is using or someone working for gold traders, which is why it's not publicly known.
Steal everyone's gold leave them with no items, resell the gold back to them for real money, ez.
|
On June 01 2012 15:25 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 15:15 redtooth wrote:On June 01 2012 10:31 semantics wrote:
I hear you can be hacked by playing public games in d3.
It's completely untrue blizzard blue's have even made statements saying those rumors are unfounded and no proof has ever been presented to them just wild theories that would not even work.
Funny how you can hear something and it can end up not being true at all.
...
The majority of game hacks are from people giving away their info though phishing attempts or dling not so wise things. People think hackers take your info as soon as they get a email as password when it easily could have been gathered months in advance and as long as you don't change your password which most people don't they have you. Oh but wait there more something called trolls on the Internet who claim they have been hacked and have auth's but never provide any proof such as a simple ss of their stash and gold amounts. i hear company employees would never release assuring statements that would calm jittery customers even when said statements weren't entirely true. they would never bury truth that may potentially hurt their customer base and total revenue. i've had 2 very different RL friends be hacked. one is a fucking retard and uses the same username and password for all his accounts (he told me so) including his online banking account, paypal, amazon. the other is currently an Information Systems major at a top university and is someone i would consider very internet saavy. he's interned for Northrup Grumman in their IT department and basically helped advise a multi-billion dollar government contracting agency on keeping their network safe from cyberterrorists. he was part of a project that ended up getting some medal from the CIA for cybersecurity. of course both are at fault for using unsafe internet practices and allowing their [stash + inventory of last character played] to get emptied out. of course the retard should just be glad that his real money shit didn't get cleared out because we all know that D3 items are far more valuable. does the fact that the rate of hacking in D3 greatly exceed the rate of hacking in ANY OTHER SERVICE not make you raise an eyebrow? i don't know anybody IRL who has had their bank account emptied out by an online predator. now within the span of two weeks 2 of the 12 or so RL friends who play D3 have been hacked. what makes you so confident that blizzard isn't at fault? Is it a fact? You'll need the actual blizz numbers dealing with customer support claims you forget this is the Internet, and people troll, oh yeah i'm a doctor you can trust what i say. So 2 out of 12 friends got hacked, how many of those 12 friends also play other games that are prime hacking targets, MMO's and other games with in game currencies. You simply can be noticing a normal rate of people who get hacked in this kind of game but you never noticed before due to lack of all 12 of those friends and you playing the same game that is a prime hacking target. Also your smart friend i bet doesn't use a unique password for battle.net, my bet is he uses the same password for all game log-ins becuase it's time consuming and hard to remember a ton of passwords or use a keychain and games are a low priority in terms of harm that can be inflicted on you if infiltrated. So what's more likely blizz blue's lie-ing about the situation and nobody showing a proof of concept hack anywhere on the internet publicly. But at the same time So many hackers know how to do this that it's effecting 2 out of 13 people by your numbers at the same time none of those hackers are fool hearty enough to brag about how they did it. Oh wait that's just silly, show me a legit proof of the hack and then show that to blizzard, else all you have in unsubstantiated rumors because people's egos are so big that; no, there is no way i could be hacked my epeen is so large i'm above that all must be blizzards fault.
No it's not a fact. And you may be right, maybe Blizzard is experiencing 'normal' levels of hacking and that I just happened to know two friends who just ran bad. Maybe thousands of people went out of their way to report identical stories not only on Blizzard forums but on TL. Some of these people, with developed online personalities not known to be internet trolls, had giant shifts of character that led them to falsify stories to make sure that the tales of Blizzard's security ineptness were greatly exaggerated.
I never suggested that 2 out of 13 is a significant number. Nor did I even suggest that this ratio was representative of the D3 population. What I did state was that I've very rarely seen accounts get hacked (primarily due to malware that was soon detected). We're talking maybe 6 or 7 instances among thousands of possible cases. Even you would be shocked if a sixth of your RL gaming buddies said they got hacked.
The reason why I was so explicit in describing my one techie friend is that I highly doubt someone like him fell victim to a keylogger. As far as I know the only computer games he plays are LoL, Dota 2, and (for now) D3 so it's hard to believe that his password got 'leaked' from another service. I haven't talked to him in detail about the hacking (it was sort of implied between us that he wasn't at fault) but let me consult him tomorrow and I'll get back to you on what he thinks.
But back to the topic at hand. If you want to talk about probabilities, what is more likely? The fact that a bunch of hackers would go after digital items in this game, Diablo 3, or the fact that if these hackers were truly capable of exploiting individual stupidity rather than the failings of the service they would probably utilize their talents elsewhere? You know what is a "prime hacking target"? Banks. Paypal. Amazon. Fuck, if Papa Johns Pizza got hacked I would be screwed because my credit card number is on there somewhere. And for some reason they chose to use all their talents and all their keyloggers and all their time to (incompletely) screw over some gamers.
Not to mention your argument defeats itself. The fact that D3 is a "prime hacking target" does not excuse its security shortcomings. They should just make stuff more secure, the fault was their own after all. Your (original) argument is instead that people should be smarter and learn to protect themselves.
You're right that individuals may not be perfect in their computer setup but guess what, Blizzard isn't perfect either. Maybe, just maybe, you're wrong. Maybe people aren't all egomaniacs who resort to blaming the company in order to preserve their self-image/identity. Maybe this ailing company really did fuck up with their initial attempt and are doing everything they can to maintain a strong front in order to retain business.
Chew on it.
|
On June 01 2012 10:31 semantics wrote:
The majority of game hacks are from people giving away their info though phishing attempts or dling not so wise things.
On June 01 2012 15:25 semantics wrote:
I'm actually shooting that it's a password recovery exploit that one of the major gold traders is using or someone working for gold traders, which is why it's not publicly known.
|
On June 01 2012 14:46 peekn wrote:
It's kinda sad because Blizzard didn't expect to have THAT many people buying the game, but since they had to have internet connection to play a SINGLE PLAYER GAME my sympathies end there. I just still blame Activision for this whole thing and everything that comes from it.
Edit: If this is still happening over in Korea, I'd be super pissed and would want my money back as well. I'd wait until they had their shit together.
You blame Activision, but you don't seem to understand how the merger worked.
Vivendi SA owned Blizzard. Vivendi then struck a deal with Activision. The deal was Blizzard and Activision would merge and Vivendi SA would have a 54% stake in the newly formed company. Part of the deal was that Blizzard and Activision both remain autonomous. Blizzard cannot control Activision and vice versa. You can't really blame Activision for anything that happened here. Just Blizzard
|
The fact that Blizzard had such a woeful launch world-wide and weren't accepting refunds just sounds so wrong to me, I'm not surprised in the least.
This only adds to the skepticism that I hold toward the company these days. Blizzard lost most of it's creativity and respect when they axed all of Blizzard North (the ones who were primary contributors toward Blizzard's biggest IP's). How do you undershoot server numbers by such a margin for one of the most hyped PC games in recent memory?
|
On June 01 2012 16:57 cozzE wrote:
The fact that Blizzard had such a woeful launch world-wide and weren't accepting refunds just sounds so wrong to me, I'm not surprised in the least.
This only adds to the skepticism that I hold toward the company these days. Blizzard lost most of it's creativity and respect when they axed all of Blizzard North (the ones who were primary contributors toward Blizzard's biggest IP's). How do you undershoot server numbers by such a margin for one of the most hyped PC games in recent memory?
Once again. Why would you have more servers than you need just for launch day? That's beyond stupid in economic terms. You aim for what you think is going to be the average and let it pan itself out. Every single MMO has had this issue. Anyone not expecting it is just being dumb.
|
Blizzard accepting refund for someone who has played their game for many more hours than most would play any other game of its price would be a little weird. They are, however accepting refund for people who have not played an excess amount, from what I've seen.
This seem more than fair.
|
Bit surprised by this, given that I've seen several posts saying "I emailed Blizzard CS and they gave me a refund with no problems" accompanied by screenshots and such.
Why is it different in Korea? Or for that matter, is this definitely confirmed?
|
On June 01 2012 13:24 rezoacken wrote:Edit: Lol dude your anger is over the top. Take a walk. What you want me to say, you're making a terrible analogy. You're comparing a technical difficulty in something that is reknown for its technical difficulties (Internet, computers) to the car industry. If you want another analogy, do you get a refund when there are too many tourists on your vacations ? Yeah this one proves my point but its probably terrible too.
I agree. Going on a vacation and then getting rejected when trying to board the plane on the airport because the airline has oversold tickets is completely standard, I see no reason to get upset as this is business praxis.
|
United States4013 Posts
On June 01 2012 17:40 Kassploj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 13:24 rezoacken wrote:Edit: Lol dude your anger is over the top. Take a walk. What you want me to say, you're making a terrible analogy. You're comparing a technical difficulty in something that is reknown for its technical difficulties (Internet, computers) to the car industry. If you want another analogy, do you get a refund when there are too many tourists on your vacations ? Yeah this one proves my point but its probably terrible too. I agree. Going on a vacation and then getting rejected when trying to board the plane on the airport because the airline has oversold tickets is completely standard, I see no reason to get upset as this is business praxis.
The best part is you wait 2 weeks later and tickets are still sold out.
On June 01 2012 17:01 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 16:57 cozzE wrote:
The fact that Blizzard had such a woeful launch world-wide and weren't accepting refunds just sounds so wrong to me, I'm not surprised in the least.
This only adds to the skepticism that I hold toward the company these days. Blizzard lost most of it's creativity and respect when they axed all of Blizzard North (the ones who were primary contributors toward Blizzard's biggest IP's). How do you undershoot server numbers by such a margin for one of the most hyped PC games in recent memory? Once again. Why would you have more servers than you need just for launch day? That's beyond stupid in economic terms. You aim for what you think is going to be the average and let it pan itself out. Every single MMO has had this issue. Anyone not expecting it is just being dumb.
Old Republic had an extremely smooth launch with very few problems despite the massive population on day 1. If EA can do it, so can Blizzard. Pretty inexcusable.
On June 01 2012 16:43 Joementum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 14:46 peekn wrote:
It's kinda sad because Blizzard didn't expect to have THAT many people buying the game, but since they had to have internet connection to play a SINGLE PLAYER GAME my sympathies end there. I just still blame Activision for this whole thing and everything that comes from it.
Edit: If this is still happening over in Korea, I'd be super pissed and would want my money back as well. I'd wait until they had their shit together. You blame Activision, but you don't seem to understand how the merger worked. Vivendi SA owned Blizzard. Vivendi then struck a deal with Activision. The deal was Blizzard and Activision would merge and Vivendi SA would have a 54% stake in the newly formed company. Part of the deal was that Blizzard and Activision both remain autonomous. Blizzard cannot control Activision and vice versa. You can't really blame Activision for anything that happened here. Just Blizzard
You would be naive to believe that Activision has no influence in how Blizzard runs things.
|
Quote from battlnet forums:
"If Blizzard expect you to be always online to play their game. Then Blizzard need to always be online whenever you want to play it."
They totaly deserve this , having downtimes so often/long cant be acceptable , i hope they get a realy huge fine for doing this , so they finaly realise that they should actualy spend more money on servers , rather then having a bare minimum, just to safe some money (guess they did it that way).
IMO Blizzard are huge morons , just imagine all the "future" money lost due to this losing their "good image" , if I were Blizzard i would try to sue the guys responsible for this within the company/or their server providers , and obviously fire them :O
|
I asked for a refund to Blizzard Korea after I found out that I'm not gonna be able to play in English with the Korean client and thus had to buy the game again with my EU b.net account. They denied my refund request. Maybe I'm gonna get the refund after all? ,)
(I purchased the Korean digital version and never logged in with it once)
|
On June 01 2012 17:15 Uncultured wrote:
Blizzard accepting refund for someone who has played their game for many more hours than most would play any other game of its price would be a little weird. They are, however accepting refund for people who have not played an excess amount, from what I've seen.
This seem more than fair.
This, people who seriously ask for a refund after playing a game for over 50 hours are pure dicks. If you don't like the game, refund it immediately. Don't dick around with it until you're bored and then expect to get money back.
|
On June 01 2012 18:12 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 17:15 Uncultured wrote:
Blizzard accepting refund for someone who has played their game for many more hours than most would play any other game of its price would be a little weird. They are, however accepting refund for people who have not played an excess amount, from what I've seen.
This seem more than fair.
This, people who seriously ask for a refund after playing a game for over 50 hours are pure dicks. If you don't like the game, refund it immediately. Don't dick around with it until you're bored and then expect to get money back.
It's not about being bored. It's about not being able to play half of the time. Since the patch 2 days ago, I haven't been able to play at all, despite trying to log in the whole day. Same the days after launch where you often had to spam the login screen for over 2 hours before you got in.
This is not an MMO, where adding server capacity at the start will later be a problem because of underpopulation. Blizzard should have planned ahead, maybe leased external server capacity for the launch days.
I am a CS student having working experience with large database systems, so I know that it's not as simple as just "adding additional servers". Given the experience blizzard has with such launches (every WoW expansion, SC2, heck even WoW content patches) and them being the huge company they are, it is still no excuse though. Every game they launch has the same problems (remember SC2?) in the first weeks, you would have expected them to have sorted these things out by now.
Other games have problems too, but most of the time they have nowhere near the experience and money that Blizzard has.
I think it's a good sign that governments step in, I feel the games industry has gone a bit too far in the last years screwing over their customers with ToS, EULA and anti-piracy measures. Although I don't expect anything bad coming out of this story for blizzard, it will show other companies, that they can in fact not do anything they want just because their customers are mostly non-adults who won't sue them.
|
On June 01 2012 15:53 redtooth wrote:
But back to the topic at hand. If you want to talk about probabilities, what is more likely? The fact that a bunch of hackers would go after digital items in this game, Diablo 3, or the fact that if these hackers were truly capable of exploiting individual stupidity rather than the failings of the service they would probably utilize their talents elsewhere? You know what is a "prime hacking target"? Banks. Paypal. Amazon. Fuck, if Papa Johns Pizza got hacked I would be screwed because my credit card number is on there somewhere. And for some reason they chose to use all their talents and all their keyloggers and all their time to (incompletely) screw over some gamers.
Chew on it.
If you hacked such targets, you'll be a prime target for the authorities. If you hacked something thats "only a game", the authorities will spend less effort (if any) at chasing you down. If I had a choice between making millions with the risked of getting locked behind bars for a loooonng time, or making a few hundred bucks with the risk of losing my account, I'd choose the latter any day.
People who play 50 hours and then demand a refund are just too much. Do you buy clothes, wear them for 89 days and then demand a refund on the 90th day? No? I thought so too. If people played only for 2-4 hours, interrupted by a ton of server issues, then that's a good reason for a refund, not "I don't like the story".
|
Why do people keep taking blizzards side of the "Login problems are expected, yatta yatta yatta". That is not my fucking problem as a consumer. In any other industry (car-analogy have already been made), it is not the consumers problem if the suppliers product is shit, it's the suppliers problem.
If it doesn't seem reasonable to buy extra serverspace for the 1st month, then don't sell 6,3 million copies at once. It is just simple business, if it wasn't because I love to play this game when it is actually online, I too would get a refund.
|
On June 01 2012 10:20 houseurmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:11 Shikyo wrote:On June 01 2012 08:47 Nonexistent wrote:
6.3 million copies sold. "Hundreds of complaints", that means like 00000000000.1% of the player base. This is probably slander, how could any gov be that stupid? hundreds of OFFICIAL FORMAL COMPLAINTS. Do you have the slightest idea of how few people actually go that far? Obviously 000000000000.1%
/facepalm
|
On June 01 2012 10:20 houseurmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 10:11 Shikyo wrote:On June 01 2012 08:47 Nonexistent wrote:
6.3 million copies sold. "Hundreds of complaints", that means like 00000000000.1% of the player base. This is probably slander, how could any gov be that stupid? hundreds of OFFICIAL FORMAL COMPLAINTS. Do you have the slightest idea of how few people actually go that far? Obviously 000000000000.1%
lol. You sure it wasn't 000000000.10000000000%? this number seems scarier
On June 01 2012 11:44 NotSorry wrote:
TOS and EULA are not legal bind contracts
Yes this is true. I see a lot of people (on the bnet forums where I'm lurking for game fix updates) defending actions with the TOS/EULA as an end-all be-all counter argument.
On the extreme, you could put in your TOS "all players hereby must serve as slaves to our company for 3 months prior to being permitted to play", but yeaaaah that wouldn't exactly hold any weight in court. They'd just say: "fuck your TOS it's invalid" (verbatim obviously)
|
On June 01 2012 18:09 Onioncookie wrote:
Quote from battlnet forums:
"If Blizzard expect you to be always online to play their game. Then Blizzard need to always be online whenever you want to play it."
They totaly deserve this , having downtimes so often/long cant be acceptable , i hope they get a realy huge fine for doing this , so they finaly realise that they should actualy spend more money on servers , rather then having a bare minimum, just to safe some money (guess they did it that way).
IMO Blizzard are huge morons , just imagine all the "future" money lost due to this losing their "good image" , if I were Blizzard i would try to sue the guys responsible for this within the company/or their server providers , and obviously fire them :O
Truer words have never been spoken (written) :D
|
Blizzard totally ruined their reputation on D3. Totally. My fanboyism went down the drain. I won't even buy HoTS on pre-order. Fuck it. I'll buy it another time, or not perhaps, see who cares.
They blew it with me. I don't even log on to D3 anymore because of the login fails..
Really a huge hit in their reputation.
We will release when it's DONE. we demand our customers have a 100% satisfactory experience. Else we won't release.
Yeah Right Blizzard... I'm done with you. I'll have to find a new game complany to become fanboy of.
Blizzard was 10/10 in my book, now I rate them 3/10 for all this shit. It all started with bnet 0.2 with SC2 launch.
SC2 didn't stick to me like BW did. I don'tk now Blizzard isn't the same.
*edit*
I forgot to mention how excited I was for D3 and I even took a week off for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
