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On May 27 2012 03:47 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 03:41 Demonhunter04 wrote:On May 27 2012 03:37 Firebolt145 wrote:On May 27 2012 03:24 Demonhunter04 wrote:On May 25 2012 19:39 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 25 2012 19:34 Mammel wrote:On May 25 2012 19:33 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 25 2012 19:24 Mammel wrote:On May 25 2012 19:06 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 25 2012 18:38 Tobberoth wrote:
[quote]
Does blizzard and slow time stack? Also, aren't you literally getting oneshotted by every single enemy since you don't have FA? Slow Time doesn't affect any actions me or any allies do. In other words, everything progresses as normal, other than that you've got a huge bubble shield that slows down enemies, makes them take more damage (thanks to the rune), and most importantly; it effectively blocks all projectiles. I'm sooo glad I tried it out, never looked back since. Also, yes, I do get oneshotted by most mobs. But the whole theory of this build is to never get hit. Let me explain: Magic Missile - Charged Blast => Good damage, easy to kite with. Also, every hit will slow the target by 30% thanks to one of my passives. Hydra - Venom Hydra => Pretty self-explanatory. Does huge amounts of damage, and synergizes well with a kiting-based build, plus that the huge amounts of slowing/freezing I'm doing makes the mobs stand in the toxic pools for a longer period of time. Frost Nova - Cold Snap => Again, not much explanation needed, just seems like an obvious choice to get some good crowd control, as well as force the mobs to stand in all my other spells at once. As far as the rune goes, Cold Snap and Bone Chill are both sensible choices, but I just went with the more long-term, safer one. If you're not having any problems then it might be better to switch for the slightly increased dps. Blizzard - Stark Winter => I didn't like Blizzard at all while I was leveling, but I gotta say that its dps feels a hell of a lot higher than its tooltip says. Also, of course, it slows everything it hits, making it a vital part of this build, and the main dps spell. Most of the runes are useable, although I personally think Stark Winter is, in the end, the most effective overall for trash, and Unrelenting Storm is the best for boss fights. Slow Time - Time Warp => Most important part of this build. Like I said, it's huge versatility essentially turns it into a Guardian Shield. With this, I now have four out of six spells slowing or freezing solid, and when you stack them up you get the sickest trap. More importantly though is that the only real weakness of this build is some ranged one-shot attacks that hit you before you can hit them. When you're in that kind of environment, simply pop the bubble preemptively, and use it as a shield. If you can't dodge a missile attack with 90% movement speed reduction, then you shouldn't be playing Inferno. I'm a little torn as far as what is best out of Miasma and Time Warp; the former is technically better for kiting, but I figure you might as well boost your dps in the place where you'll be stacking up all your CC's anyway, so you can kill them three seconds faster instead of kiting three seconds more. Magic Weapon - Force Weapon => Meh, didn't feel I needed any more CC, and I need some good dps as well, so why the hell not, it makes a huge difference. Passives: Glass Cannon => Well the 10% difference in Armor and Resistances rarely makes much of a difference anyway, so I can tolerate that. The whole point is to never get hit anyway, so I might as well ignore that and just take the 15% increased dps and smile. Temporal Flux => A huge asset to this build. Admittedly the only Arcane spell I'm using is my primary, but having even your default attack slow every enemy by 30% for every hit helps immensely versus melee mobs. Arcane Dynamo => Quite simply because it was the best one remaining. Since Charged Blast makes Magic Missile a force to be reckoned with on its own, and Temporal Flux makes it commonly used when kiting, it makes sense to get a Flash of Insight every shot, so that if you remember your patterns, if you use Blizzard whenever you're fully charged, it suddenly deals huge amounts of damage in addition to slowing. ...and that's about it. Made some changes during certain troublesome boss fights since some of these spells are fairly pointless at times, but other than that I never needed to change anything, other than occationally grabbing Wormhole for a minute in order to bypass some impossible Rares/Champions of course. The only really trouble I've had are Teleport/Vortex/Fast on some types of mobs. Also, some sorts of ranged attacks that go around Slow Time are really annoying, like the Heralds of Pestilence that just buttfuck you from beneath instead. Soul Lashers were also ridiculous since their frickin' one-shotting tongues fire at you with an insane movement speed that you usually don't even have time to react and pop your bubble. Hulking Phasebeasts and their natural Teleport were also pretty annoying. Then again, if I said I beat Act III with no problems it would be an imbalanced build, as such a thing should not exist. Sure, it has it weaknesses, but so should every build have, and the most important thing is that it worked in the end, and I'm now in Act IV Inferno. (Although the first fight needs a total respec to be beatable for me lol, not that it really matters as I need to do some farming in Act III before I have a chance in the High Heavens.) On May 25 2012 18:44 Brockster wrote:
wait what, you beat inferno act3 with no EnergyArmor? thats crazy, respect. I was thinking about the rune Time Shell, for even better kiting, but wasnt sure if i can catch enough projectiles in that tiny thing, did you try that out?
Is Arcane Dynamo any good, i was thinking of using cold blooded instead of it in your spec, what do you think on that haxx? Yeah I tried, Time Shell doesn't work at all, it's waaaayyyy too small lol  Arcane Dynamo is crucial, since it makes your Magic Missile slow 30% every hit (doesn't stack of course, but still), definitely not worth switching that out for Cold Blooded. As far as the others go, while I agree that Cold Blooded would be really good to boost Blizzard's dps, the other two simply does even more. Glass Cannon goes 15% for everything, not just cold, so it's definitely better given that Cold Blooded only boosts by 20%, and you're gonna benifit a lot more from boosting your primary and your Hydra than the extra 5% from Blizzard. The last one, Arcane Dynamo, doesn't take effect quite as often as Cold Blooded would, but since you're kiting a lot with your Magic Missile, the charges build up pretty quickly, so you can still definitely discharge it with Blizzard often enough for its 75% dps bonus to be far superior to the constant 20% from Cold Blooded. In the end, CB would have been my fourth pick probably, but no, it's not worth including. Why not switch magic missile+arcane dynamo to ray of frost+cold blooded? I do 1 million dmg roughly with full AP bar to single target with RoF, even if you can't use it very ofter, sniping 50% HP from 1 elite because it decided to get stuck for a few seconds is just insane. And it slows the target even if you cast it for 1/10 of a second, slow lasts longer. And you get +20% to blizzard. That's a good point, but can you really kite with Ray of Frost? That's blizzards job, isn't it :p? >.> Seriously though, my point being that you'll get a ton of dps by doing it your way, but you'll sacrifice micro potential for it. Might be worth it, I dunno since I havn't tried both, but it's a good question. I've been using a 1.4 speed weapon for ages and I can kite very well with ray of frost without using any other slows. I am not in Inferno, but the technique doesn't change, does it? Not sure why other people are saying that you can't kite with ray of frost, that's what I've been doing since I first got it. EDIT: I really want to see if there are any viable archon or meteor builds. I recently unlocked meteor and I've combined it with Blizzard to hold mobs in place, while using electrocute, spectral blades, diamond skin, and magic weapon as my other skills because I have no cost reducing runes for blizzard and meteor. Yes, I know the build sucks but it sure looks cool lol. Also, is the Prismatic Armor rune (+40% to all resists) for Energy Armor not amazing? Nobody has mentioned it in the last few pages. When you get to inferno, try ray of frost out and let us know how it works for you :D What happens? Are mobs immune to the slow from frost or something? 258% weapon damage and 60% slow seems amazing to me. Granted, it costs arcane power, but considering that Cold-Blooded also improves Blizzard, I don't see how it's worse than Magic Missile + Temporal Flux. Fast/teleport/mortar and you can't channel for more than 1/2 a second without dying. If you get hit twice you die. You need to "shoot and scoot".
Didn't you read what I said? You can kite with Ray of Frost because, like with void rays, the damage isn't smoothly done over time but happens 1.4x a second, just like any other attack.
On May 27 2012 03:45 Tyrant0 wrote:
If you aren't able to pump 60k damage in less than a second (120k+ in 1s in a2) you will be quickly overwhelmed by everything else that isn't slowed.
So...explain to me how 258% weapon damage and 60% slow for 20 ap is worse than 143% weapon damage and 30% slow? If doing a certain amount of damage in under a second is the most important thing, then how is magic missile better?
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I'm sorry that it's hard to explain, but it's just fact.
Channeling spells in solo inferno simply don't work right now.
Also, ray of frost is a single target slow which won't do jack shit in inferno.
Why can't you just take our word for it?
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
Because the build isn't built around magic missile. It's built around blizzard + venom hydra, or arcane orb. Those are your damage dealers. Ray of frost isn't as good as those.
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On May 27 2012 03:55 Demonhunter04 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 03:47 diophan wrote:On May 27 2012 03:41 Demonhunter04 wrote:On May 27 2012 03:37 Firebolt145 wrote:On May 27 2012 03:24 Demonhunter04 wrote:On May 25 2012 19:39 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 25 2012 19:34 Mammel wrote:On May 25 2012 19:33 HaXXspetten wrote:On May 25 2012 19:24 Mammel wrote:On May 25 2012 19:06 HaXXspetten wrote:[quote] Slow Time doesn't affect any actions me or any allies do. In other words, everything progresses as normal, other than that you've got a huge bubble shield that slows down enemies, makes them take more damage (thanks to the rune), and most importantly; it effectively blocks all projectiles. I'm sooo glad I tried it out, never looked back since. Also, yes, I do get oneshotted by most mobs. But the whole theory of this build is to never get hit. Let me explain: Magic Missile - Charged Blast => Good damage, easy to kite with. Also, every hit will slow the target by 30% thanks to one of my passives. Hydra - Venom Hydra => Pretty self-explanatory. Does huge amounts of damage, and synergizes well with a kiting-based build, plus that the huge amounts of slowing/freezing I'm doing makes the mobs stand in the toxic pools for a longer period of time. Frost Nova - Cold Snap => Again, not much explanation needed, just seems like an obvious choice to get some good crowd control, as well as force the mobs to stand in all my other spells at once. As far as the rune goes, Cold Snap and Bone Chill are both sensible choices, but I just went with the more long-term, safer one. If you're not having any problems then it might be better to switch for the slightly increased dps. Blizzard - Stark Winter => I didn't like Blizzard at all while I was leveling, but I gotta say that its dps feels a hell of a lot higher than its tooltip says. Also, of course, it slows everything it hits, making it a vital part of this build, and the main dps spell. Most of the runes are useable, although I personally think Stark Winter is, in the end, the most effective overall for trash, and Unrelenting Storm is the best for boss fights. Slow Time - Time Warp => Most important part of this build. Like I said, it's huge versatility essentially turns it into a Guardian Shield. With this, I now have four out of six spells slowing or freezing solid, and when you stack them up you get the sickest trap. More importantly though is that the only real weakness of this build is some ranged one-shot attacks that hit you before you can hit them. When you're in that kind of environment, simply pop the bubble preemptively, and use it as a shield. If you can't dodge a missile attack with 90% movement speed reduction, then you shouldn't be playing Inferno. I'm a little torn as far as what is best out of Miasma and Time Warp; the former is technically better for kiting, but I figure you might as well boost your dps in the place where you'll be stacking up all your CC's anyway, so you can kill them three seconds faster instead of kiting three seconds more. Magic Weapon - Force Weapon => Meh, didn't feel I needed any more CC, and I need some good dps as well, so why the hell not, it makes a huge difference. Passives: Glass Cannon => Well the 10% difference in Armor and Resistances rarely makes much of a difference anyway, so I can tolerate that. The whole point is to never get hit anyway, so I might as well ignore that and just take the 15% increased dps and smile. Temporal Flux => A huge asset to this build. Admittedly the only Arcane spell I'm using is my primary, but having even your default attack slow every enemy by 30% for every hit helps immensely versus melee mobs. Arcane Dynamo => Quite simply because it was the best one remaining. Since Charged Blast makes Magic Missile a force to be reckoned with on its own, and Temporal Flux makes it commonly used when kiting, it makes sense to get a Flash of Insight every shot, so that if you remember your patterns, if you use Blizzard whenever you're fully charged, it suddenly deals huge amounts of damage in addition to slowing. ...and that's about it. Made some changes during certain troublesome boss fights since some of these spells are fairly pointless at times, but other than that I never needed to change anything, other than occationally grabbing Wormhole for a minute in order to bypass some impossible Rares/Champions of course. The only really trouble I've had are Teleport/Vortex/Fast on some types of mobs. Also, some sorts of ranged attacks that go around Slow Time are really annoying, like the Heralds of Pestilence that just buttfuck you from beneath instead. Soul Lashers were also ridiculous since their frickin' one-shotting tongues fire at you with an insane movement speed that you usually don't even have time to react and pop your bubble. Hulking Phasebeasts and their natural Teleport were also pretty annoying. Then again, if I said I beat Act III with no problems it would be an imbalanced build, as such a thing should not exist. Sure, it has it weaknesses, but so should every build have, and the most important thing is that it worked in the end, and I'm now in Act IV Inferno. (Although the first fight needs a total respec to be beatable for me lol, not that it really matters as I need to do some farming in Act III before I have a chance in the High Heavens.) [quote] Yeah I tried, Time Shell doesn't work at all, it's waaaayyyy too small lol Arcane Dynamo is crucial, since it makes your Magic Missile slow 30% every hit (doesn't stack of course, but still), definitely not worth switching that out for Cold Blooded. As far as the others go, while I agree that Cold Blooded would be really good to boost Blizzard's dps, the other two simply does even more. Glass Cannon goes 15% for everything, not just cold, so it's definitely better given that Cold Blooded only boosts by 20%, and you're gonna benifit a lot more from boosting your primary and your Hydra than the extra 5% from Blizzard. The last one, Arcane Dynamo, doesn't take effect quite as often as Cold Blooded would, but since you're kiting a lot with your Magic Missile, the charges build up pretty quickly, so you can still definitely discharge it with Blizzard often enough for its 75% dps bonus to be far superior to the constant 20% from Cold Blooded. In the end, CB would have been my fourth pick probably, but no, it's not worth including. Why not switch magic missile+arcane dynamo to ray of frost+cold blooded? I do 1 million dmg roughly with full AP bar to single target with RoF, even if you can't use it very ofter, sniping 50% HP from 1 elite because it decided to get stuck for a few seconds is just insane. And it slows the target even if you cast it for 1/10 of a second, slow lasts longer. And you get +20% to blizzard. That's a good point, but can you really kite with Ray of Frost? That's blizzards job, isn't it :p? >.> Seriously though, my point being that you'll get a ton of dps by doing it your way, but you'll sacrifice micro potential for it. Might be worth it, I dunno since I havn't tried both, but it's a good question. I've been using a 1.4 speed weapon for ages and I can kite very well with ray of frost without using any other slows. I am not in Inferno, but the technique doesn't change, does it? Not sure why other people are saying that you can't kite with ray of frost, that's what I've been doing since I first got it. EDIT: I really want to see if there are any viable archon or meteor builds. I recently unlocked meteor and I've combined it with Blizzard to hold mobs in place, while using electrocute, spectral blades, diamond skin, and magic weapon as my other skills because I have no cost reducing runes for blizzard and meteor. Yes, I know the build sucks but it sure looks cool lol. Also, is the Prismatic Armor rune (+40% to all resists) for Energy Armor not amazing? Nobody has mentioned it in the last few pages. When you get to inferno, try ray of frost out and let us know how it works for you :D What happens? Are mobs immune to the slow from frost or something? 258% weapon damage and 60% slow seems amazing to me. Granted, it costs arcane power, but considering that Cold-Blooded also improves Blizzard, I don't see how it's worse than Magic Missile + Temporal Flux. Fast/teleport/mortar and you can't channel for more than 1/2 a second without dying. If you get hit twice you die. You need to "shoot and scoot". Didn't you read what I said? You can kite with Ray of Frost because, like with void rays, the damage isn't smoothly done over time but happens 1.4x a second, just like any other attack. Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 03:45 Tyrant0 wrote:
If you aren't able to pump 60k damage in less than a second (120k+ in 1s in a2) you will be quickly overwhelmed by everything else that isn't slowed. So...explain to me how 258% weapon damage and 60% slow for 20 ap is worse than 143% weapon damage and 30% slow? If doing a certain amount of damage in under a second is the most important thing, then how is magic missile better?
You can only slow one unit at a time. How do you deal with a pack of 3 elites + potentially other mobs? How about an elite with horde?
I do use ray of frost for some boss fights btw, since you're right it's good single target dps+slows.
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On May 27 2012 04:09 diophan wrote:
You can only slow one unit at a time. How do you deal with a pack of 3 elites + potentially other mobs? How about an elite with horde?
I do use ray of frost for some boss fights btw, since you're right it's good single target dps+slows.
Does magic missile slow in AoE?
On May 27 2012 04:03 Firebolt145 wrote:
Because the build isn't built around magic missile. It's built around blizzard + venom hydra, or arcane orb. Those are your damage dealers. Ray of frost isn't as good as those.
Blizzard gains the buff from cold-blooded. Is AP such an issue that you can't afford to use RoF? Some people have said earlier that you don't really need a signature spell later on.
On May 27 2012 04:02 N3rV[Green] wrote:
I'm sorry that it's hard to explain, but it's just fact.
Channeling spells in solo inferno simply don't work right now.
Also, ray of frost is a single target slow which won't do jack shit in inferno.
Why can't you just take our word for it?
So you don't use magic missile period? It's also a single target slow which apparently won't do jack shit. Btw, Ray of Frost is not a channeling spell in the sense that you can do maximum dps without having to stand still and channel. Same for disintegrate.
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well since i was one of the first people who use the build, let me explain why ray of frost sucks:
First of all, it is a channeling spells: this requires you to stay put a certain amount of time before anything could happen. Compare to magic missile, there are a huge gap of animation time (casting time) which make kiting much much harder if not impossible.
2nd: Ray of frost range is WAYYYYYY shorter than magic missle. I am pretty sure magic missle has 1.5 - 2 times more range than RoF. At RoF range, there are a lot of stuff that could 1 shot you not even counting this is also the range of mortar and teleport trigger on elite mobs.Magic missile range, however, is one of the longest spell in the game (longest is posion dart of WD) and you dont even have to aim with the Seeker rune to hit a target.
3rd: You cant abuse terrain with RoF. With Seeker rune + blizzard, you could stuck mobs into walls, door and abuse their pathing AI, nuke them down for free dmg. You could also shoot magic missile through a lot of terrain (mostly low-high ground) while RoF only goes straight. In combination with skills such as Hydra, that would be a ton of free damage without taking a single hit on yourself.
4th: Magic missile is free to cast, RoF cost you AP... no need to explain much how huge this is.
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On May 27 2012 04:17 NB wrote:
well since i was one of the first people who use the build, let me explain why ray of frost sucks:
First of all, it is a channeling spells: this requires you to stay put a certain amount of time before anything could happen. Compare to magic missile, there are a huge gap of animation time (casting time) which make kiting much much harder if not impossible.
2nd: Ray of frost range is WAYYYYYY shorter than magic missle. I am pretty sure magic missle has 1.5 - 2 times more range than RoF. At RoF range, there are a lot of stuff that could 1 shot you not even counting this is also the range of mortar and teleport trigger on elite mobs.Magic missile range, however, is one of the longest spell in the game (longest is posion dart of WD) and you dont even have to aim with the Seeker rune to hit a target.
3rd: You cant abuse terrain with RoF. With Seeker rune + blizzard, you could stuck mobs into walls, door and abuse their pathing AI, nuke them down for free dmg. You could also shoot magic missile through a lot of terrain (mostly low-high ground) while RoF only goes straight. In combination with skills such as Hydra, that would be a ton of free damage without taking a single hit on yourself.
4th: Magic missile is free to cast, RoF cost you AP... no need to explain much how huge this is.
Thanks for clearing that up. I'll try both in Inferno and report the results here.
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
We don't use magic missile as our primary damage dealer. We use blizzard/arcane orb (with their AoE snares which are vital) to do damage, then use magic missile in between while we recharge arcane power. Of all the signature spells, magic missile is the best suited of them for the job.
But you're right, many people don't use magic missile at all. I currently use arcane orb and venom hydra only as my damage dealers, with slow time as my aoe snare, without any signature spells.
Ray of frost is inferior in many ways except maybe in some boss fights. You need to stand still for it to be really efficient and it's only a single target snare.
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So update on my build (page 48?). The reason I was using magic missile was because i had 20% crit and 7 arcane power on crit. Sadly It didn't do as much as I thought and it requires a lot of stopping. I think I'll get rid of 7 arcane power on crit for more damage and switch magic missile for venom hydra again (so basically my old build lol). However, I still like crit and think it's an amazing dmg modifier with % crit dmg increase. Not sure how knockback works but isn't it on dmg dealt or somethin? Definitely not the 2% one from magic weapon because that never procs. Also, attack speed doesn't do as much as I thought it does. Sadly, it's not for wizards, but I still like to stay around 1.4.
Basically if you have 100% crit modifier, with 20% crit, it's like having 40% crit with 0% crit modifier. So basically 100% crit modifier DOUBLES whatever crit you add on without having to invest so much more into crit %. I really think this is the future of wizard itemization. Forget attack speed on gloves/rings/ammies and start looking for crit or crit dmg increase.
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So what's the verdict? 2-hand weapons always better for Wizard? I guess the same for Witch Doctor too?
And are you guys using both Blizzard and Arcane Orb together in the same build? I guess snaring is important...
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What am I meant to do vs reflect damage packs on inferno....
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On May 27 2012 05:42 Sponge75 wrote:
What am I meant to do vs reflect damage packs on inferno....
If the mob can be kited, you can slowly drag out the fight and heal yourself. Attack quick when under diamondskin, otherwise slowly dps and use pots.
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On May 27 2012 04:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Basically if you have 100% crit modifier, with 20% crit, it's like having 40% crit with 0% crit modifier. So basically 100% crit modifier DOUBLES whatever crit you add on without having to invest so much more into crit %. I really think this is the future of wizard itemization. Forget attack speed on gloves/rings/ammies and start looking for crit or crit dmg increase.
Also if you're gonna itemize tihs way it's best to get an offhand. Double the modifiers. I know people will say magic weapon gives you more from a 2 hander, but I don't know how much that could make up for potentially 7% crit and 50% increased crit damage which, added onto 20% and 100% crit damage) would be around an increase of 28% dmg if my math is correct.
FUCK come on guys, this is revolutionary if I'm not braindead (which I could be I only got 6 hours of sleep the past 2 days). I don't think they calculate increased crit dmg into modifiers into the DPS though I'm pretty sure.
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Lalalaland34491 Posts
On May 27 2012 06:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 04:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Basically if you have 100% crit modifier, with 20% crit, it's like having 40% crit with 0% crit modifier. So basically 100% crit modifier DOUBLES whatever crit you add on without having to invest so much more into crit %. I really think this is the future of wizard itemization. Forget attack speed on gloves/rings/ammies and start looking for crit or crit dmg increase. Also if you're gonna itemize tihs way it's best to get an offhand. Double the modifiers. I know people will say magic weapon gives you more from a 2 hander, but I don't know how much that could make up for potentially 7% crit and 50% increased crit damage which, added onto 20% and 100% crit damage) would be around an increase of 28% dmg if my math is correct. FUCK come on guys, this is revolutionary if I'm not braindead (which I could be I only got 6 hours of sleep the past 2 days). I don't think they calculate increased crit dmg into modifiers into the DPS though I'm pretty sure.
This may be true but to me it's also a question of gold. In terms of gold efficiency, a 2hr will get you a LOT more dps than a 1h/oh would. For people that don't have millions of gold, spending money getting a good 2hr and other upgrades as well will achieve much more than blowing it all on a 1h/oh.
edit: I'm also hearing rumours that magic weapon is bugged and is giving 2x the bonus damage it should really be giving. Can anyone confirm?
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On May 27 2012 06:14 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 06:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 27 2012 04:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Basically if you have 100% crit modifier, with 20% crit, it's like having 40% crit with 0% crit modifier. So basically 100% crit modifier DOUBLES whatever crit you add on without having to invest so much more into crit %. I really think this is the future of wizard itemization. Forget attack speed on gloves/rings/ammies and start looking for crit or crit dmg increase. Also if you're gonna itemize tihs way it's best to get an offhand. Double the modifiers. I know people will say magic weapon gives you more from a 2 hander, but I don't know how much that could make up for potentially 7% crit and 50% increased crit damage which, added onto 20% and 100% crit damage) would be around an increase of 28% dmg if my math is correct. FUCK come on guys, this is revolutionary if I'm not braindead (which I could be I only got 6 hours of sleep the past 2 days). I don't think they calculate increased crit dmg into modifiers into the DPS though I'm pretty sure. This may be true but to me it's also a question of gold. In terms of gold efficiency, a 2hr will get you a LOT more dps than a 1h/oh would. For people that don't have millions of gold, spending money getting a good 2hr and other upgrades as well will achieve much more than blowing it all on a 1h/oh.
Sure, but how much more is it exactly and in the end, does it increase your dmg more or less than an equivalent price? I'll have to check up on the auction house when I can, but the sad thing is I can't really calculate damage off that so easily.
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On May 27 2012 06:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 04:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Basically if you have 100% crit modifier, with 20% crit, it's like having 40% crit with 0% crit modifier. So basically 100% crit modifier DOUBLES whatever crit you add on without having to invest so much more into crit %. I really think this is the future of wizard itemization. Forget attack speed on gloves/rings/ammies and start looking for crit or crit dmg increase. Also if you're gonna itemize tihs way it's best to get an offhand. Double the modifiers. I know people will say magic weapon gives you more from a 2 hander, but I don't know how much that could make up for potentially 7% crit and 50% increased crit damage which, added onto 20% and 100% crit damage) would be around an increase of 28% dmg if my math is correct. FUCK come on guys, this is revolutionary if I'm not braindead (which I could be I only got 6 hours of sleep the past 2 days). I don't think they calculate increased crit dmg into modifiers into the DPS though I'm pretty sure.
28 procentpoint, only 20%...
Focussing on critical hits / crit damage to increase damage is nice in theory compared to focussing on attack speed a bit but I don't think it's as efficient.
critical bonus = DPS (1 + critchance * critbonusdmg) which means you need quite a bit in both to get a decent multiplier.
For example getting a 1.75 multiplier with attack speed is pretty easy with 5 items that have +15% attack speed affix.
Getting a 1.75 multiplier through critical hits requires for example 300% bonus dmg and 25% critical hit chance, quite a difficult task to achieve with 5 items. The way the itemisation is at the moment it seems focussing much on critical hits for it's DPS buff alone is not too efficient, despite the advantage of maintaining good AP efficiency which increases attack speed does not.
If you have a build that increases critical hit chance/damage through skills or uses critical hits then it becomes really interesting but those builds don't seem good anymore after the nerf.
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On May 27 2012 06:27 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 06:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 27 2012 04:34 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Basically if you have 100% crit modifier, with 20% crit, it's like having 40% crit with 0% crit modifier. So basically 100% crit modifier DOUBLES whatever crit you add on without having to invest so much more into crit %. I really think this is the future of wizard itemization. Forget attack speed on gloves/rings/ammies and start looking for crit or crit dmg increase. Also if you're gonna itemize tihs way it's best to get an offhand. Double the modifiers. I know people will say magic weapon gives you more from a 2 hander, but I don't know how much that could make up for potentially 7% crit and 50% increased crit damage which, added onto 20% and 100% crit damage) would be around an increase of 28% dmg if my math is correct. FUCK come on guys, this is revolutionary if I'm not braindead (which I could be I only got 6 hours of sleep the past 2 days). I don't think they calculate increased crit dmg into modifiers into the DPS though I'm pretty sure. 28 procentpoint, only 20%... Focussing on critical hits / crit damage to increase damage is nice in theory compared to focussing on attack speed a bit but I don't think it's as efficient. critical bonus = DPS (1 + critchance * critbonusdmg) which means you need quite a bit in both to get a decent multiplier. For example getting a 1.75 multiplier with attack speed is pretty easy with 5 items that have +15% attack speed affix. Getting a 1.75 multiplier through critical hits requires for example 300% bonus dmg and 25% critical hit chance, quite a difficult task to achieve with 5 items. The way the itemisation is at the moment it seems focussing much on critical hits for it's DPS buff alone is not too efficient, despite the advantage of maintaining good AP efficiency which increases attack speed does not. If you have a build that increases critical hit chance/damage through skills or uses critical hits then it becomes really interesting but those builds don't seem good anymore after the nerf.
I agree that attack speed is THE best modifier for dps but you have to take in the account that
1. You don't get to stand and attack and make full use of it
and
2. You don't have enough of an arcane power pool to make use of it and it doesn't work on hydras/blizzard
and this makes it pretty bad for wizards. I'd say the only utility you get out of attack speed is the animation is slightly faster, but overall if you don't have a full arcane pool constantly it's worthless.
Let's say you don't want attack speed because of that at all. You're not gonna benefit much from it. However, all the items that have attack speed modifier have a crit modifier, one or the other, and you can replace that. I have 20% crit with no crit % on my rings or amulet atm.
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On May 27 2012 04:17 NB wrote:
well since i was one of the first people who use the build, let me explain why ray of frost sucks:
First of all, it is a channeling spells: this requires you to stay put a certain amount of time before anything could happen. Compare to magic missile, there are a huge gap of animation time (casting time) which make kiting much much harder if not impossible.
2nd: Ray of frost range is WAYYYYYY shorter than magic missle. I am pretty sure magic missle has 1.5 - 2 times more range than RoF. At RoF range, there are a lot of stuff that could 1 shot you not even counting this is also the range of mortar and teleport trigger on elite mobs.Magic missile range, however, is one of the longest spell in the game (longest is posion dart of WD) and you dont even have to aim with the Seeker rune to hit a target.
3rd: You cant abuse terrain with RoF. With Seeker rune + blizzard, you could stuck mobs into walls, door and abuse their pathing AI, nuke them down for free dmg. You could also shoot magic missile through a lot of terrain (mostly low-high ground) while RoF only goes straight. In combination with skills such as Hydra, that would be a ton of free damage without taking a single hit on yourself.
4th: Magic missile is free to cast, RoF cost you AP... no need to explain much how huge this is.
RoF is way better than you think. It's the highest direct dmg spell we got, easily. You might do more dmg when kiting with other spells, but remember that you can take cold blooded with RoF and blizzard is 20% stronger with it. I do ~twice as much DPS with RoF than tap the source arcane orb, magic missile doesn't come even close.
Ofc it's situational, but you can snipe 1 minion for example if you can just have the 10 seconds free casting which, actually, happens far more often than you'd think. And RoF in fact goes through alot of terrain (Been farming a3 q1-2 and it's insane there, mobs get stuck at stairs all the time and very often RoF goes through floor/wall/etc).
Cold blooded blizzard kills horde minions/normal mobs without any problem, you don't even need hydra. Only mobs that you can't kill are super fast ones and teleport+fire chains (unless you can bug/separate them) but don't think theres any build that can handle them. And RoF works at low-high-low ground most of the time.
But ofc it has some problems, champion packs are slower to kill as you can't really use anything but blizzard on them, and if there's a lot of projectiles it's worse also.
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On May 27 2012 06:40 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 04:17 NB wrote:
well since i was one of the first people who use the build, let me explain why ray of frost sucks:
First of all, it is a channeling spells: this requires you to stay put a certain amount of time before anything could happen. Compare to magic missile, there are a huge gap of animation time (casting time) which make kiting much much harder if not impossible.
2nd: Ray of frost range is WAYYYYYY shorter than magic missle. I am pretty sure magic missle has 1.5 - 2 times more range than RoF. At RoF range, there are a lot of stuff that could 1 shot you not even counting this is also the range of mortar and teleport trigger on elite mobs.Magic missile range, however, is one of the longest spell in the game (longest is posion dart of WD) and you dont even have to aim with the Seeker rune to hit a target.
3rd: You cant abuse terrain with RoF. With Seeker rune + blizzard, you could stuck mobs into walls, door and abuse their pathing AI, nuke them down for free dmg. You could also shoot magic missile through a lot of terrain (mostly low-high ground) while RoF only goes straight. In combination with skills such as Hydra, that would be a ton of free damage without taking a single hit on yourself.
4th: Magic missile is free to cast, RoF cost you AP... no need to explain much how huge this is. RoF is way better than you think. It's the highest direct dmg spell we got, easily. You might do more dmg when kiting with other spells, but remember that you can take cold blooded with RoF and blizzard is 20% stronger with it. I do ~twice as much DPS with RoF than tap the source arcane orb, magic missile doesn't come even close. Ofc it's situational, but you can snipe 1 minion for example if you can just have the 10 seconds free casting which, actually, happens far more often than you'd think. And RoF in fact goes through alot of terrain (Been farming a3 q1-2 and it's insane there, mobs get stuck at stairs all the time and very often RoF goes through floor/wall/etc). Cold blooded blizzard kills horde minions/normal mobs without any problem, you don't even need hydra. Only mobs that you can't kill are super fast ones and teleport+fire chains (unless you can bug/separate them) but don't think theres any build that can handle them. And RoF works at low-high-low ground most of the time. But ofc it has some problems, champion packs are slower to kill as you can't really use anything but blizzard on them, and if there's a lot of projectiles it's worse also.
what difficulty are you playing on that have blizzard killing stuff? @_@... The thing is DPS should not matter here else you could just Get force weapon, familiar, glass cannon and turn on archon to kill Diablo. The problem is to survive as a class with very minimum Defends + defensive mechanics while killing shits with your naturely high DPS.
Anyway, provide a full build here with your current total stat (defense plus offense) and we can start comparing. Ofc you could sit at 1 place and spam RoF if you have 50k HP and over 9 thousands all resist.
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I'm on Act 1 Inferno(have got to torture chambers).. Looking for good place to farm for gold to buy items, since I feel super weak. I tried farming the "aspects" but just died instantly every time. I'm really wanting some Attack Speed i am using a 2 Hander with 1k dps, but I want to switch to a 1 hander with strong attacks per second since I'm mostly kiting with the Arcane slow build... It's just REALLY expensive. Right now I'm just at 1 attacks per second, also I'm pretty broke at 400k, and looking at the good items I'd want at 8 million seems kind of intimidating. I'm cool with farming hard for gear I just need to feel like I'm getting somewhere or it's not worth it to me(so more than a 100k gold per session would be nice). So If someone has some farming tips for Act 1 wizards I'm all ears. I think I'm just gonna have to start slowly grinding the skeleton king.
I feel like where I'm really lacking is armor, all resists, and attack speed in order to make this build work. I do like my boots I got a great deal to give me Movement Speed, intel, Vitality and armor but that's the best I've found in the bargain bin, but the expensive price tag on the attack speed + intel + vitality stuff is really putting a damper on the spirits.
67 Strength
129 Dexterity
1337 Intelligence
1110 Vitality
Only have 1 attacks per second.
got 15228 Damage without skills factored.
only about 150 all resists
2300 Armor(without force armor)
Current build:
Arcane Orb: Tap the Source
Hydra: Venom
Force Armor
Crystal Shell
Wormhole Teleport
Force Weapon
I feel like my AS is really slowing down my kiting ability, and my armor/resists are helping me die faster, but maybe everyone dies that fast it sounds like? Do I need more defensive abilities etc?
Thanks for help fellow wizards!
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EPT
