Wizard - Builds/Discussion - Page 39

On May 25 2012 07:12 Dfgj wrote:

My point is that having high vit isn't going to mean you have low dps.

On May 25 2012 07:16 Tobberoth wrote:

Which I never claimed either. I'm saying, if you have 4:1 ratio survivability/damage, you're probably overstacking on survivability which isn't going to help. If you can have perfect in both, that's obviously awesome, but survivability should be seen as an awesome bonus, not as the target.

On May 25 2012 07:10 Tobberoth wrote:
going allout vit isn't going to help make you less of a glass cannon, you'll still be two/three shotted, but have way less dps.

On May 25 2012 07:21 Dfgj wrote:


Uh, yeah, you did.

Anyways, having enough HP/resist to actually survive hits that would otherwise 1hit you is a pretty useful thing.

On May 25 2012 07:23 Tobberoth wrote:

Yes, because I'm talking about a realistic scenario where you have tons of vit on your gear and little int,

On May 25 2012 07:24 Dfgj wrote:

I was going on the assumption that someone in Inferno would want items with a ton of vit AND a ton of int.

On May 25 2012 07:26 Tobberoth wrote:

I would want items with a ton of vit, a ton of int, a ton of crit chance, a ton of magic find, a ton of armor and a ton of everything else. Unfortunately, that isn't realistic, you have to weigh the benefits, and if you have a 4:1 ratio, chances are you're weighing them incorrectly, or you had bad luck with the gear.

On May 25 2012 07:28 Dfgj wrote:

Who's said anything about a 4:1 ratio? That's more common for players who aren't in Inferno yet, because weapon damage scales up dramatically at level 60 but you can get pretty high vit prior to that.

On May 25 2012 07:30 Tobberoth wrote:

The whole argument is about the dude who said said he had a buttload of HP and very little damage. All that was pointed out was that in inferno, you'll be a glass cannon no matter what gear you chose since wizards do not have the survivability to tank damage.

On May 25 2012 07:31 Dfgj wrote:

That dude was level 51 -_-

On May 25 2012 07:30 Tobberoth wrote:

The whole argument is about the dude who said said he had a buttload of HP and very little damage. All that was pointed out was that in inferno, you'll be a glass cannon no matter what gear you chose since wizards do not have the survivability to tank damage.

On May 25 2012 07:32 Tobberoth wrote:

Seriously, what's your point? O.o

On May 25 2012 07:34 red_b wrote:


because the difference in gear even between level 55 and 60 items is immense.

I mean, a 20k lvl 60 weapon is easily higher dps wise than a 250k lvl 55 weapon. so, the point is that if you aren't in inferno yet, you shouldn't talk about what will or will / not work frankly.

On May 25 2012 07:34 NEOtheONE wrote:


You mean me who had a ton of HP and more than decent damage because I'm still only on nightmare difficulty. If I can keep finding gear with 90+ vit and Int then I am going to keep buying it. I honestly have no clue how the ratio turned out to be 4 to 1 considering I have 1003 Int and only 770ish Vit.

On May 25 2012 07:36 Dfgj wrote:

It's pretty normal because you can't get a weapon with high base damage. I was on that sort of ratio until I finished hell (9k~ dps, 36k hp~), and then when you get inferno weapons and lv60 items, your damage catches up fast.

In NM/Hell, having more hp than damage isn't a major tradeoff, it's simply a result of equipment limitations.

On May 25 2012 07:45 Tobberoth wrote:

I don't really agree with that. It's true that it's natural to get far more hp than damage because of equipment limitations, but it's still perfectly possible to do major tradeoffs, if you want. My friend had about 18k dps when he finished hell, probably less HP than that, because he bought AH gear with a ton of damage but little survivability (because there were no items with both/the items with both were far to expensive).

Bear in mind, this is not what I recommended our lvl 51 friend to do, I said his hp was probably overkill (not as in "it's way too much you need to lower it", but as in "this is more than enough") and that he should probably focus on getting his damage up from this point on. That doesn't mean he shouldn't use items with high damage and high vit on, it means he shouldn't be afraid to use items with a lot of damage and little vit on, because he already has a good amount of HP.

On May 25 2012 07:49 Dfgj wrote:
Yeah, but that's my point. Below Inferno gear and top levels, to get a high stat, you have to trade off because you can only get so much on your level of gear (equipment limitations). Above that, you can reasonably aim to get both high dps and high hp, and we're really talking about Inferno here.

It doesn't cut into dps much to get enough health/armor/resist to survive any single hit, and with that noted, there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't. Unless you like getting 1-shotted by a gentle breeze.

On May 25 2012 07:52 Tobberoth wrote:

Absolutely, but here's the thing: 22k HP is enough to never get oneshotted in Act 1 Inferno (unless by special things like the butchers megasmack after a hook, which can still be blocked by diamond armor). So if you're in a situation where you have 22k HP and you get two new items for the same slot, one raises your dps by 2k, one raises your hp by 2k, you should always pick the dps item, because it gives far more value for your money. If you then get an item which raises both dps AND hp by 2k, it's the obvious choice. It's just far less likely to get such an awesome item, so I think it's a good thing if people go into Inferno with the mindset that they will have to go for a glass cannon build where they should prioritize dps-heavy items over survivability-heavy items (as long as you're not getting oneshotted, of course).