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I still play through D1 (normal difficulty only) once every year. Takes only 2 evenings, but is so rewarding. Knowing everything by heart makes it pretty easy, but while playing it I reminiscence about the first time I entered the game! As a young boy of 11 years old I freaked out several times, but I endured and finally destroyed the evil Diablo as a melee Rogue.
I have played every char in D1 to 40+ on B.net and every char multiple times to 90+ on D2 (both LoD and Classic), and for me the PvE aspect of D2 could never come close to the atmospheric dept of D1. Sure, Cow Level was AWESOME (God, did I love throwing Lightning Fury into the hoards), but the rest of the levels were actually pretty underwhelming and uninspired. Most of the time I spend in D2 was on 4v4 duel games with item restrictions (both LoD and Classic private communities).
And although D2 was a pretty good game I never revisit the game for PvE purposes, never do you get that unsettling feeling that D1 gives you. Currently I am enjoying Path of Exile, which is a pretty good Hack&Slash game and will be free to play. If you get the chance to play the beta, you should definately give it a chance.
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Yeah, games got easier with companies trying to introduce the games to a more casual gamer.
And there is really nothing people can do about it. The casual gamer is where the money is so obviously companies will make games marketed towards this target group.
But there is really no reason to cry over a game gotten "easier" since it's pretty much the "hardcore gamers" own fault. I have been in the gaming community for a very looooooong time. I know what the trend was within these gaming communities and cracking copies of games in order to play them without paying is not really the best way to give money back to the companies.
So in the end the companies tended to focus on a much wider social group (Average joe with a job who just wants some relaxing entertainment from now and then), instead of the broke teenagers that called themselves "hardcore gamers". Creating the "wonders" of casual games today... One gotta love FarmVille *sarcasm*
Personally, I do think that D3 does not look pretty "creepy" at all. But then again, I have not really played the game yet and I will not make a final opinion on it before I play it. I didn't play D2 either with the mindset of it needing to be somekind of horror/adventure game. But more like a game where I could satisfy my craving for grinding :D If I want to play a horror game, I'd actually go and pick up a dedicated horror game.
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D1 was not harder than D2. It may have had less magical items, but the difficulty difference between playing with a D2 char in common blue/green items to a D1 char of comparable level, but "normal" equipment is neglible. D2 simply added more tiers of items; these obviously filled people's inventory slots without making everything easier in the process.
What really took away many people's challenge in D2 were muled items and cookie-cutter specs. Even without the muled stuff, an optimized build could easily tear through most of the content at ease and without any support. If you didn't have one, though, you were screwed (or challenged, however you'd like to put it). I distinctly remember some of my very first D2 chars having tremendous difficulty with act bosses and several zones even on normal difficulty, much more so than anything in D1 except maybe for the Butcher and Hell.
What you're right about is the atmosphere, but then again D2 had a greater variety and a higher replay value through it's several zones. D1 may have been super atmospheric, but that got old after some time too.
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Imho D1 is harder, in that it's more unforgiving. There were multiple mob types that could swarm and kill you if you ran into a room carelessly. There were mobs you could not outrun. In D2, you could run from just about every situation (there were a handful that were dangerous -- Battlemaid Sarina spawning on the staircase or charge/whirlwind into a pack of oblivion knights) but it wasn't quite what you expected every single time you turned a corner.
If something was hard in D2, it usually just means it takes you longer to beat it down, or you could just avoid it. If something was hard in D1, it meant you had a decent chance of dying.
Regarding the "I had some difficulty with act bosses" guy - I've played a bunch of games of Diablo 2, mostly on hardcore without muling. I usually go through Normal mostly skill-less (or with level 1 for prereqs) and it's not very hard *IF* you're appropriately leveled. You probably had difficulty because you didn't know to clear out the valley of kings a couple times before fighting Duriel.
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I remember when it was getting too difficult to kill the butcher, I would always end up run to a cell, close the door and hit him with an arrow to his knee. But killing him with no sort of dirty tricks was damn satisfying and big accomplishment.
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Diablo 3 isn't scary whatsoever. I think one thing you touched upon but didn't flesh out is the dark.
Particularly, in Diablo 3 you have a full field of vision. Even in dungeons, you can see how far your monitor's resolution can see. In Diablo 1, it was just a little bit of line of sight around your character, and the rest was nearly pitch dark. It did a lot to set the tone.
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I find the story line and lore of diablo 1 so much more enjoyable than diablo 2 and what there is of diablo 3. Also for single player the random quest spawn is fun, although some times frustrating haha
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The big difference between Diablo 1 and 2 is that 1 focuses on atmosphere while 2 focuses on action. 1 has a low sight radius, punishing death mechanics, gloomy and creepy music and sound effects, lethal bosses like the Butcher, a very dark town, slow walking speed. 2 is a lot faster, more accessible, has greater replayability due to more classes and specs and a vastly bigger endgame. I spent a lot more time on 2 than on 1, but 1 always remains more memorable because of the awesome atmosphere.
A more extreme comparison would be Planescape Torment and Diablo 2. I probably spent hundreds of hours on D2 and only a couple ones on PST. However, those few hours were so intense (all the quests in Sigil, Ravel and her black-barbed maze, the chocolate-eating mage, Coaxmetal, Grace's Brothel and its cellar, the Transcendent One, so many cool things I can't list them all) that I have way more fond memories of PST than I have of D2.
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Yeah, the Butcher is a classic beginner's trap until you figure out to skip him or hide behind a closed door. The whole presence of light radius. D2 is faster and has more stuff or is just more crowded in general. By itself, this isn't bad, just different. But it's noticeably worse atmospheres for the theme of the game (despite having more atmospheres for all the acts). And its not as difficult, or at least the curve isn't at all the same. It depends how you evaluate endgame D2 content. But then, D2 had more attention from modders who sought to fix some of these problems.
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On January 17 2012 09:45 Kurast wrote:
I find the story line and lore of diablo 1 so much more enjoyable than diablo 2 and what there is of diablo 3. Also for single player the random quest spawn is fun, although some times frustrating haha
This for sure is true about story, though I think it has something to do with game/story parts. Whereas D1 is one story in 4 locations you just explore 1 by 1 but arent really that important (it could be pretty much same with 16 cathedral levels), D2 is more like 4 (5) stories in different acts you travel to because of story.
As it goes for lore, I think here you are wrong, simply because there is much more in D2. D1 is pretty much 1 demon, 1 order, 1 kingdom+village lore - but D2 is whole world through entire time lore.
As it goes for atmosphere, is it really just me who did find D1 music not just scarier, but also kinda depressive? Tristram theme always gave me headache after 5-10 min, cathedral was good, catakombs lets say ok, caves boring, hell also kinda depressive. Hellfire music was horrible, though that wasnt Blizzard fault ^^
I overall liked D2 music much more, for me this adventure music fits game more than scary dungeon music. One thing that however nobody will ever take away from me, one thing I always loved so much about is totally different music for all acts. D1 music is very similar in all nontown locations and it doesnt really feel like any change, but in D2 every act is unique and it always made me enjoy every new character little more.
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On January 17 2012 09:16 Typhon wrote:
Imho D1 is harder, in that it's more unforgiving. There were multiple mob types that could swarm and kill you if you ran into a room carelessly. There were mobs you could not outrun. In D2, you could run from just about every situation (there were a handful that were dangerous -- Battlemaid Sarina spawning on the staircase or charge/whirlwind into a pack of oblivion knights) but it wasn't quite what you expected every single time you turned a corner.
If something was hard in D2, it usually just means it takes you longer to beat it down, or you could just avoid it. If something was hard in D1, it meant you had a decent chance of dying.
Regarding the "I had some difficulty with act bosses" guy - I've played a bunch of games of Diablo 2, mostly on hardcore without muling. I usually go through Normal mostly skill-less (or with level 1 for prereqs) and it's not very hard *IF* you're appropriately leveled. You probably had difficulty because you didn't know to clear out the valley of kings a couple times before fighting Duriel.
So you had to grind the valley of kings to level up and take on Duriel?
If you had to go grind specifically for an encounter, how is it not hard?
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On January 17 2012 13:08 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2012 09:16 Typhon wrote:
Imho D1 is harder, in that it's more unforgiving. There were multiple mob types that could swarm and kill you if you ran into a room carelessly. There were mobs you could not outrun. In D2, you could run from just about every situation (there were a handful that were dangerous -- Battlemaid Sarina spawning on the staircase or charge/whirlwind into a pack of oblivion knights) but it wasn't quite what you expected every single time you turned a corner.
If something was hard in D2, it usually just means it takes you longer to beat it down, or you could just avoid it. If something was hard in D1, it meant you had a decent chance of dying.
Regarding the "I had some difficulty with act bosses" guy - I've played a bunch of games of Diablo 2, mostly on hardcore without muling. I usually go through Normal mostly skill-less (or with level 1 for prereqs) and it's not very hard *IF* you're appropriately leveled. You probably had difficulty because you didn't know to clear out the valley of kings a couple times before fighting Duriel. So you had to grind the valley of kings to level up and take on Duriel? If you had to go grind specifically for an encounter, how is it not hard?
Because grinding isn't hard. Takes 10 minutes.
You didn't have to do that either, it just made it easier. I have played hardcore ironman runs plenty of times and imo the game isnt hard at all until hell mode and only when you're first running through it. If you have items, its never hard but you can run into a combo that is difficult MSLE (which they removed) or sometimes certain packs in the right locations are difficult.
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I remember the good old days, back playing Diablo and Baldur's gate over at my buddy's place. Both of us were perplexed by the D&D rules (especially dice for damage and hit points) in BG and overwhelmed by the tedium of the dungeon trudging that is Diablo. But that's not to say that we weren't totally sucked in by it.
I never finished Diablo as a wee lad back then, but about 6 years back or so I popped it into my new desktop to play for nostalgia sake and was blown away by the atmosphere and presentation (the music does so much for it!). I always played rogue before but I picked a warrior this go around, and honestly the game is not hard at any point for a warrior. Years of RPG grinding and repetitive discipline in games that are actually difficult trains you to stick it through, over and over if necessary, until you succeed, and armed with this knowledge and the steadfast hardiness of the warrior class I stomped through the game in one afternoon. But it was good fun, and it's one of those things that makes me wish I had been older when the game first came around so I could more fully appreciate it.
I especially love how DARK the theme is; how doomed Tristram is, what with its Bishop thralled, the king dead and it's Prince missing in action, with the denizens of Hell boiling forth from the monastary to slay the innocent. You don't really see such a sense of bleakness or hopelessness in stories anymore; the only thing that came close for me was Demon's Souls with it's strong Hellish Purgatory/Limbo overtones. I really loved D2, but beyond most of later Act I the game does not capture the darkness of the original
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The Butcher was definitely in a list on what made D1 awesome.
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for those saying that D1 wasnt harder than D2, go ahead and play the warrior/rogue past normal difficulty and then we can talk
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you totaly forget the most important point.
when we played D1 back in 1990 whe had TWENTYTWO years less gaming experience.
everything was "new" back than and we had the mind of kids and teenagers. playing games for over 20 years changes you.
a lot of you seem to forget this 
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Diablo 1 was a horror story, Diablo 2 was a chase. Diablo 1 had one location and one dungeon, coming back to town felt like coming up for air, you interacted with the same ravaged characters over and over again in the ruins of their lives. Diablo 2 was a sprawling "boy's own adventure" spread out over 4/5 acts with multiple towns, a much larger cast of players who were often looking to a brighter future and half the game you are fighting outdoors.
It's not a secret as to why the games feel so different, they were never intended to feel the same. It's like Alien vs. Aliens, same universe, completely different themes.
There is another important point which will differ somewhat from person to person but... I am guessing like me most people who encountered Diablo 1 first time round did it in quite a private way when compared with Diablo 2. I wasn't constantly bumping into randoms with a lot to say, or bots selling shit, or even reading up much on line. It was just me and a couple buddies taking turns on trying not to die. With Diablo 2 I knew from the off that I was one tiny part of a huge community even before the game came out when I was waiting 2 years for release and visiting boards to get all the info I could on it.
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Yeah, the music and atmosphere was nice, but as a huge diablo fan who both D1 and D2 at around the same time due to terrible computers, and then D2 for years on and off, D1 was actually a pretty shitty game from the gameplay sense. Combat was really simple and you had an ever more limited moveset and enemyset than in D2, it really dragged after a while and wasn't fun. Everything really behaved the same. You could call some really OP enemies "hard", but it certainly took basically no skill....you walked at like 3mph and had maybe one functional spell if you were lucky.
I played both games online as well, and D2 is an improvement in every category barring the atmosphere (which D2 just went in a slightly different direction). God D1 online was a lol, with the rampant duping and hacked items (anyone remember "Ya"? it was a potion you wore on your head that made you onehit everything).
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On January 17 2012 10:11 PraefektMotus wrote:
The big difference between Diablo 1 and 2 is that 1 focuses on atmosphere while 2 focuses on action. 1 has a low sight radius, punishing death mechanics, gloomy and creepy music and sound effects, lethal bosses like the Butcher, a very dark town, slow walking speed. 2 is a lot faster, more accessible, has greater replayability due to more classes and specs and a vastly bigger endgame. I spent a lot more time on 2 than on 1, but 1 always remains more memorable because of the awesome atmosphere.
You called it!
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EPT
