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GSL4: Code S Groups finalized.

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
378 CommentsPost a Reply
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bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
December 14 2010 11:20 GMT
#1
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/292


Red -Z, Blue -T, Green-P

[image loading]
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We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
Wargizmo
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia1237 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 11:23:17
December 14 2010 11:22 GMT
#2
Idra and Jinro in same group is going to make things interesting.... no real group of death but I wouldn't like to be JookToJong being in the same group as MVP, fruit dealer and Zenio
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is best. - Frank Zappa
shell
Profile Joined October 2010
Portugal2722 Posts
December 14 2010 11:23 GMT
#3
Can't understand why don't randomize the groups but using a method that could provide less mirrors and team kills!

there's 9 protoss, 9 zers and 14 terrans, why would there be a group with 3 protoss and another with 3 terran and 3 zerg?? that's stupido imo

Idra and Jinro in the same group also sucks.. hope they make it tho!
BENFICA || Besties: idra, Stephano, Nestea, Jaedong, Serral, Jinro, Scarlett || Zerg <3
Thoramas
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore152 Posts
December 14 2010 11:23 GMT
#4
why are both foreigners in the same group =/
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44336 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 11:24:25
December 14 2010 11:23 GMT
#5
Jinro and Idra are in the same group???

EDIT: Yeah.... I assume everyone's going to voice this exact same concern. lol.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Maawaak
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada23 Posts
December 14 2010 11:24 GMT
#6
Jinro and IdrA in the same group
Zaka
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands372 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 11:25:45
December 14 2010 11:25 GMT
#7
How does this work? Will two advance per group or something?

edit: nevermind, link finally loaded for me.
Bite off more than you can chew....then chew it.
Jayson X
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Switzerland2431 Posts
December 14 2010 11:25 GMT
#8
Wooop! Time for Nada to find his TvP skills like in Broodwar. Going up against Inca & MC? That is ruff.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
December 14 2010 11:27 GMT
#9
I do not like this.

Also, el oh el at group F. Spot the intruder. =p
roadrunner343
Profile Joined November 2010
148 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 11:28:12
December 14 2010 11:27 GMT
#10
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
December 14 2010 11:28 GMT
#11
Group B, E, F and G gonna be a blast, and ofcourse Group H
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 14 2010 11:28 GMT
#12
Why did the foreigners have to be placed in the same group?
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 11:33:47
December 14 2010 11:33 GMT
#13
--- Nuked ---
Clipped
Profile Joined August 2010
France122 Posts
December 14 2010 11:34 GMT
#14
At least one oGs will be at risk of relegation in group f I have a feeling it's going to be nada .
zak
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1009 Posts
December 14 2010 11:36 GMT
#15
thanks for this! wow group D has Brazil, Germany, Spain, and Argentina. group of death!
You know how to gain a victory, but not use it - maharbal
Blitzmarine
Profile Joined July 2009
39 Posts
December 14 2010 11:39 GMT
#16
On December 14 2010 20:33 Inori wrote:
Very very very stupid group placements. So many mirrors and the only 2 foreigners in same group. Who came up with this?
I hope they will realize this before it's too late.


No one. Just pure luck.
fams
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada731 Posts
December 14 2010 11:39 GMT
#17
ahahah IMNesTea...what a hero Zerg, taking on all those Terran's by himself!
http://www.twitter.com/famsytron/
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
December 14 2010 11:42 GMT
#18
pretty clear these groups were totally random, as they should be

is it a shame? yes but so is life sometimes :/

should they fix the group? absolutely not
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
December 14 2010 11:46 GMT
#19
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


Its oftenly refered to as 'bad luck'

:/
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
bRuTaL!!
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland588 Posts
December 14 2010 11:46 GMT
#20
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


On December 14 2010 20:28 Holgerius wrote:
Why did the foreigners have to be placed in the same group?


On December 14 2010 20:33 Inori wrote:
Very very very stupid group placements. So many mirrors and the only 2 foreigners in same group. Who came up with this?
I hope they will realize this before it's too late.


It called random. If it isnt random then what? Sorting based on teams, nationality, race? The most neutral solution is random. One possibility in the future is a seed based grouping but I think you need at least 1 season for that. Nothing stops Idra and Jinro both going through though...
Tasteless: "What was it Hans Solo was frozen in? Kryptonite?" Artosis: "Lol, no. Thats the stuff that hurts Batman."
arterian
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1157 Posts
December 14 2010 11:48 GMT
#21
so lame that both foreigners are in the same group :/
http://www.twitch.tv/arterian
KDN
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway96 Posts
December 14 2010 11:49 GMT
#22
I reckon both Jinro and IdrA is in a position to get to round of 16.
jcroisdale
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1543 Posts
December 14 2010 11:52 GMT
#23
even if it is random if im the guy and see these lineups im going to re-roll
"I think bringing a toddler to a movie theater is a terrible idea. They are too young to understand what is happening it would be like giving your toddler acid. Bad idea." - Sinensis
MiraMax
Profile Joined July 2009
Germany532 Posts
December 14 2010 11:53 GMT
#24
On December 14 2010 20:46 bRuTaL!! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:28 Holgerius wrote:
Why did the foreigners have to be placed in the same group?


Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:33 Inori wrote:
Very very very stupid group placements. So many mirrors and the only 2 foreigners in same group. Who came up with this?
I hope they will realize this before it's too late.


It called random. If it isnt random then what? Sorting based on teams, nationality, race? The most neutral solution is random. One possibility in the future is a seed based grouping but I think you need at least 1 season for that. Nothing stops Idra and Jinro both going through though...


Afaik they used seeds on the basis of individual strength (performance in GSL). Seems fair to me, it's just bad luck that Jinro and Idra went to the same group.
stumpster
Profile Joined September 2009
United States67 Posts
December 14 2010 11:53 GMT
#25
Not a huge fan of the group layout, having half of the groups be one-sided in their distribution (3 of one race) means quite a lot of mirror matches and can lead to matchup specialists going further than they should.

Oh well, should be interesting. Hopefully both Idra and Jinro advance out of group H.
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 11:54 GMT
#26
All of you need to know there was a drawing done by the players and if a player couldn't make it then GOM would draw for them.

It''s unlucky but the all groups are pretty much very sick. They are really awesome players so we can expect some awesome matches coming up.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
December 14 2010 11:56 GMT
#27
I'm a partial fan of Jinro and Idra being in the same group, that will make for an excellent night! It would also be great to see Jinro win in that series. Group F is the strangest of the bunch, 3 oGs with 2 of them being arguably the best in oGs.
Full.tilt
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom1709 Posts
December 14 2010 11:57 GMT
#28
In champions league and world cup they separate teams from same nations and continents respectively.

Keeping the two foreigners apart would not be a big deal or break the randomness.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
December 14 2010 11:57 GMT
#29
On December 14 2010 20:34 Clipped wrote:
At least one oGs will be at risk of relegation in group f I have a feeling it's going to be nada .


I'm pretty sure it's going to be Inca. Or at least should be, based on skill.

He never showed anything special, and played quite bad at Dreamhack the last I saw him.
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38255 Posts
December 14 2010 11:57 GMT
#30
Sweet, whatever you think about the unfortunate clumping of teams/foreigners/whateverelsesinksyourship we're in for a lot of great matches there imo.

I think both Jinro and Idra can feasibly make it out of that group, I'd certainly expect at least one of them to do so.
PredY
Profile Joined September 2009
Czech Republic1731 Posts
December 14 2010 11:58 GMT
#31
i hope nada will show us the way in TvP
http://www.twitch.tv/czelpredy
gnutz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany666 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 11:59:14
December 14 2010 11:59 GMT
#32
Ultimative proof that nothing is fixed

Boxer with T, P and Z in a group, MC with 2 other P and Jinro and Idra same group lol
Nich
Profile Joined April 2010
397 Posts
December 14 2010 11:59 GMT
#33
nestea, mvp and nada have the best group, training against one single race is the best thing it can happen. the down side is opponent might be able to know your builts.

rainbow carrying startale by himself =\
Zaka
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands372 Posts
December 14 2010 12:00 GMT
#34
On December 14 2010 20:46 bRuTaL!! wrote:
It called random. If it isnt random then what? Sorting based on teams, nationality, race? The most neutral solution is random.

>Sorting based on teams, nationality, race?

Uh, yes? It's called a drawing. Three pots with each a race. Every group will at least get one T, Z and P.

[image loading]


> The most neutral solution is random.

Yup, but it's also the most retarded. See OP for reference.
Bite off more than you can chew....then chew it.
Mr Mauve
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom386 Posts
December 14 2010 12:02 GMT
#35
On December 14 2010 20:46 bRuTaL!! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:28 Holgerius wrote:
Why did the foreigners have to be placed in the same group?


Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:33 Inori wrote:
Very very very stupid group placements. So many mirrors and the only 2 foreigners in same group. Who came up with this?
I hope they will realize this before it's too late.


It called random. If it isnt random then what? Sorting based on teams, nationality, race? The most neutral solution is random. One possibility in the future is a seed based grouping but I think you need at least 1 season for that. Nothing stops Idra and Jinro both going through though...


It seems to be just random enough to be annoying.

The top row is the top 8 players by GSL points
The second row is ranks 9-16

We can tell that there's no other system to the top 2 rows as group A contains 2nd and 10th ranks, which is objectively stronger than Group F (8th and 12th).

The bottom 2 rows seem to be filled randomly from 17-32. Group F is (going purely on ranks) a bit stronger than, say, Group B, as Group F has Check (18th) and Idra (21st), but Group B has MVP (28th - whether or not he deserves that is another issue entirely) and JookToJung (32nd).

I'm going to stop investigating this now to see what other people have posted.
Hello! How are you today?
drlame
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden574 Posts
December 14 2010 12:02 GMT
#36
Hm I wonder what matchup NaDa will practice.. As everyone else in this thread have already stated, the groups suck.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
December 14 2010 12:03 GMT
#37
Yeah, they should have three buckets. One for each race, and just make sure that the races are evenly distributed.
Hello=)
Lyter
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2145 Posts
December 14 2010 12:05 GMT
#38
Pfft less whine about drawing, there were top seeds for each group, 2nd seeds and then 'the rest' pretty good system imo, yea unfortunate that both foreigners in same group but so what? They both have a realistic chance of making it through and you can't have tournaments be so predictable in who goes into what group, this is Code S, these players are pretty damn good, its not like going to the WC only to find theres a group with Honduras/San Marino/Andorra/Azerbaijan or anything like that
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 12:09:58
December 14 2010 12:07 GMT
#39
On December 14 2010 21:03 ParasitJonte wrote:
Yeah, they should have three buckets. One for each race, and just make sure that the races are evenly distributed.


This still wouldnt prevent foreigners or same team member to enter the same group, and the complaints would still be there. Should they then draw the groups based of some weird Algorithm for Race/Nationality/Team?

How about prefered match up? Maybe two top players enters the same group -> still complaints?
You see where im heading with this.
Random is the only truly neutral solution
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
nokz88
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1253 Posts
December 14 2010 12:09 GMT
#40
Some people just cannot be satisfied... random is random folks, and that's how it should be. You guys must be thinking it's better for the foreigners, but I think that rigging the brackets for them to increase their chances is an insult to their abilities as a player. I am confident that both Jinro and Idra can pull it off with determination and work ethic.
in a state of trance
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
December 14 2010 12:11 GMT
#41
On December 14 2010 21:09 nokz88 wrote:
Some people just cannot be satisfied... random is random folks, and that's how it should be. You guys must be thinking it's better for the foreigners, but I think that rigging the brackets for them to increase their chances is an insult to their abilities as a player. I am confident that both Jinro and Idra can pull it off with determination and work ethic.


I'm with you. The better players advance.
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
z00t
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia976 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 12:12:15
December 14 2010 12:11 GMT
#42
Soooooooo unfortunate that Jinro and Idra wound up in the same group . They should re-roll just for them!

Oh well - at least it gives us the potential for foreigner-on-foreigner action, even though that's both awesome and depressing at the same time (if it's not the finals, in which case it'd just be awesome ).
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
December 14 2010 12:13 GMT
#43
Disappointing groups tbh.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 12:14 GMT
#44
On December 14 2010 21:09 nokz88 wrote:
Some people just cannot be satisfied... random is random folks, and that's how it should be. You guys must be thinking it's better for the foreigners, but I think that rigging the brackets for them to increase their chances is an insult to their abilities as a player. I am confident that both Jinro and Idra can pull it off with determination and work ethic.

Exactly.
Last time we had a thread that GOM was rigging every matchup for Boxer. Now we have complaints about the groups .The S league draws were done by the players themselves and GOM together. How can this be rigged or bad... It's fine as it is. I'm open to good suggestions and welcome people to convince me otherwise but this method was just the best thing to do.

We don't have an even distribution of races in the S league (random also counts for it) so having pots with T/Z/P/R in it cannot be done.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
.kv
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 12:15:47
December 14 2010 12:14 GMT
#45
Group G is pretty weak as well IMO whereas Group B is stacked. I will be amazed if jookToJung makes it out of that.

SotG/Artosis Interview should be coming soon about this. I want to hear what they have to say about this
netherDrake
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Singapore1831 Posts
December 14 2010 12:15 GMT
#46
I don't see Check as a better player than any of these players in Group H. Ensnare has a good TvT but his TvZ isn't as great. Idra is probably the favourite here and I think a TvT between Jinro and Ensnare would make the difference in Group H. Jinro probably has a better chance as his TvZ from what I've seen is probably better than Ensnare's and he also has a good TvT.
SC2 player for Flash eSports. twitch.tv/nether_drake, https://twitter.com/bryan_sum, http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bryan-Drake-Sum/468389706519567
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
December 14 2010 12:17 GMT
#47
On December 14 2010 21:14 .kv wrote:
Group G is pretty weak as well IMO whereas Group B is stacked. I will be amazed if jookToJung makes it out of that.

SotG/Artosis Interview should be coming soon about this. I want to hear what they have to say about this


Group G has MK and Clide. They are pretty good.
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
hybridsc
Profile Joined November 2010
United States63 Posts
December 14 2010 12:17 GMT
#48
Group H is insanely good... all these players are semifinalist/finalist contenders. I don't see Jinro making it out of the group.
Zeburial
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden1126 Posts
December 14 2010 12:20 GMT
#49
8 oGs players.. woah :D
Empires are not brought down by outside forces - they are destroyed by weaknesses from within
LittLeD
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden7973 Posts
December 14 2010 12:23 GMT
#50
Im considering group H to be the group of death to be honest.
We all know what Jinro and IdrA are capable of and Ensnare (Saw some games of him vs HuK this morning....geez he just stomped him) and Check are both extremely skilled and talented.
Scary scary group and if both Jinro and IdrA makes it out, then they gain a new level of respect from my side.
☆Grubby ☆| Tod|DeMusliM|ThorZaiN|SaSe|Moon|Mana| ☆HerO ☆
rel
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Guam3521 Posts
December 14 2010 12:24 GMT
#51
oGs-TL is the best SC2 Team wow.
I'll tank push my way into her heart. ☮♥&$!
namedplayer
Profile Joined June 2010
844 Posts
December 14 2010 12:29 GMT
#52
there's no easy group...
You know what I'm talking about
Herculix
Profile Joined May 2010
United States946 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 12:35:08
December 14 2010 12:33 GMT
#53
i'm confident in tester's chances given his group. finally we get to see the true protoss king on the biggest stage. :D

also, i've seen idra ZvZ check many times. check should not be able to beat him. seriously, it's not even CLOSE how much better his ZvZ is. of like 7 or 8 games, idra did not lose one nor did he ever seem in danger. seen him crap on ensnare pretty hard too. obviously Jinro has great TvZ and TvT too as that's what got him to top 4. overall i'm very happy about the brackets

i'm only sad about group F because i like everyone there but Sans and i fear either Nada or Inca won't make it when they deserve to. but, it's mostly all good with me
DavidMcF
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom189 Posts
December 14 2010 12:34 GMT
#54
oGs has far too many players haha
Stratchka
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria165 Posts
December 14 2010 12:40 GMT
#55
I think the groups have turned out fine! Both foreigners in one group is a bit unfortunate, but they can still both advance...

And since they apparently seeded the best 8 players from GSL1-3, they also did not end up with stacked groups...

I also find it great that they determine the groups so far in advance... now the players have A LOT of time to prepare for their opponents!
StarTale 화이팅!!!
Skrelt
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands306 Posts
December 14 2010 12:41 GMT
#56
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


This.

And lots of oGs in the same groups, hmm
The Wolfpack - Metalband from the Netherlands
Dagobert
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands1858 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 12:54:06
December 14 2010 12:47 GMT
#57
On December 14 2010 20:46 bRuTaL!! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:28 Holgerius wrote:
Why did the foreigners have to be placed in the same group?


Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:33 Inori wrote:
Very very very stupid group placements. So many mirrors and the only 2 foreigners in same group. Who came up with this?
I hope they will realize this before it's too late.


It called random. If it isnt random then what? Sorting based on teams, nationality, race? The most neutral solution is random. One possibility in the future is a seed based grouping but I think you need at least 1 season for that. Nothing stops Idra and Jinro both going through though...

Actually this is a misconception. It isn't neutral, nor is it random. The order in which people draw the tickets is already a confounding factor. The df (degrees of freedom) decrease with every person who draws. It's not random, this is just a matter of conditional probabilities (i.e. which group you draw is not independent of the previous draws). If I knew more about the procedure they used I could say more, but from what I could gather, this is the conclusion.

Also, if the 'most equal' distribution is what you're aiming for, then using this sort of "randomization" is not a good choice because sample distributions for variables only start to even out at n>30 (25 if you're feeling lucky) per group. So if you want an even distribution of skill/race within each of the 8 cells, that's at least N=240 (200) players in total. We're at 32.
Moragon
Profile Joined October 2010
United States355 Posts
December 14 2010 12:47 GMT
#58
On December 14 2010 20:56 Irave wrote:
Group F is the strangest of the bunch, 3 oGs with 2 of them being arguably the best in oGs.


Definately the scariest of the bunch, I can't tell which 2 you are talking about being arguably the best. I know IncA was ranked #2 in the oGs house for a long time, and recently MC has been ranked #1, but Nada is famous. Im confused.
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
December 14 2010 12:48 GMT
#59
Both foreigners in the same group doesn't actually decrease the average number advancing. It makes it less likely that both advance, but also more likely that at least one advances. The average number advancing shouldn't change.
SoL[9]
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Portugal1370 Posts
December 14 2010 12:48 GMT
#60
Sucks to have foreigners in the same group but they can pass. They already prove that so is not so bad.

Group F is gonna be interesting alot of PvP and Nada playing TvP oh yeah!!
I Can Fly...
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
December 14 2010 12:50 GMT
#61
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


ya thats fucked up....
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
December 14 2010 12:51 GMT
#62
On December 14 2010 21:47 Dagobert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:46 bRuTaL!! wrote:
On December 14 2010 20:23 Thoramas wrote:
why are both foreigners in the same group =/


On December 14 2010 20:28 Holgerius wrote:
Why did the foreigners have to be placed in the same group?


On December 14 2010 20:33 Inori wrote:
Very very very stupid group placements. So many mirrors and the only 2 foreigners in same group. Who came up with this?
I hope they will realize this before it's too late.


It called random. If it isnt random then what? Sorting based on teams, nationality, race? The most neutral solution is random. One possibility in the future is a seed based grouping but I think you need at least 1 season for that. Nothing stops Idra and Jinro both going through though...

Actually this is a misconception. It isn't neutral, nor is it random. The order in which people draw the tickets is already a confounding factor. The df (degrees of freedom) decrease with every person who draws. It's not random, this is just a matter of conditional probabilities. If I knew more about the procedure they used I could say more, but from what I could gather, this is the conclusion.
Also, if the 'most equal' distribution is something you're aiming for, then using this sort of "randomization" is not a good choice because sample distributions for variables only start to even out at n>30 (25 if you want to be conservative about it) per group. So if you want an even distribution of skill/race within each of the 8 cells, that's at least N=240 (200) players in total. We're at 32.


Please, learn probability better. The order tickets are being drawn does not matter. Everyone's chance of being drawn for any particular spot is still 1/32. (That said, they do seem to have seeded people who made finals - have they made their policy clear?)
Deleted User 124618
Profile Joined November 2010
1142 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 12:54:45
December 14 2010 12:51 GMT
#63
*Edit* Wait, what? Woops, misunderstood the system I guess.
ahwala
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany382 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 12:54:00
December 14 2010 12:52 GMT
#64
Stupid groups, I'm kinda disappointed.
Hard group H. Good luck IdrA & Jinro.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 14 2010 12:53 GMT
#65
They really should make a televised ceremony when they draw groups, that would hype things a lot.
Zootre
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark180 Posts
December 14 2010 12:55 GMT
#66
MVP and Nestea will just have to play each other to train their match up... lucky for IM i guess :D

for oGs to not have to teamkill they should have 1 player in each group.. pretty insane :D
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 12:56 GMT
#67
NaDa with few weeks of preparing TvP only?!?!? And add the fact that 2 of the 3 are his own teammates. INSANE. NaDa is going to come up with insane BO and show us the way of the new Terran Macro playstyle
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
esperanto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany357 Posts
December 14 2010 12:58 GMT
#68
On December 14 2010 20:36 zak wrote:
thanks for this! wow group D has Brazil, Germany, Spain, and Argentina. group of death!


I am interessted which one is which one?

I dont like to see so many players of one team in one group (like oGs in group F, B or C), things like this end up in situations where you either eliminate your teammate or trade points so you both can advance. They should have had a system for their picking where teammates cant end up in the same group.
bmml
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom962 Posts
December 14 2010 13:01 GMT
#69
Hmmmmmmmmm which is the group of death B or F?
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 13:05:25
December 14 2010 13:04 GMT
#70
On December 14 2010 21:07 LittleeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 21:03 ParasitJonte wrote:
Yeah, they should have three buckets. One for each race, and just make sure that the races are evenly distributed.


This still wouldnt prevent foreigners or same team member to enter the same group, and the complaints would still be there. Should they then draw the groups based of some weird Algorithm for Race/Nationality/Team?

How about prefered match up? Maybe two top players enters the same group -> still complaints?
You see where im heading with this.
Random is the only truly neutral solution


I definitely don't think foreigners should be treated specially somehow. Don't know why everybody thinks so... As a side not, I really think it's totally wrong of GSL to reserve spots for "top foreigners". If they want to aid top foreigners then perhaps help paying some expenses or something, but don't give them special treatment in the tournaments!

The "same team" issue is perhaps more serious. But I don't think it's too serious. I think that's something that people would be willing to accept and it wouldn't cause too much harm to the tournament or spectators.

Edit: but I get your point. And the point other's is making. And yeah, I didn't mention anything about seeds either. Would be stupid to have the top 3 players in the same group etc.
Hello=)
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
December 14 2010 13:06 GMT
#71
Prediction:
A: NesTea, Maka
B: Fruitdealer, MVP
C: HongUn, and... uh, somebody. BoxeR, I guess.
D: Rain, + either sSKS (which I totally fanboyishly hope for) or choya
E: Leenock, Genius
F: MC and NaDa. Even if it's full of great players, I'd say NaDa has a huge advantage by only having to practise 1 matchup.
G: Seems like the easiest bracket, should be a breeze for MK and Clide
H: Well, I'll root for a Jinro + IdrA outcome, but it'll be more likely that Check advaces over one of them

Also, I sure hope these brackets shut people up about Gom rigging the groups.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Contagious
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1319 Posts
December 14 2010 13:06 GMT
#72
wow Group F & H are so sad lol.. 3 oGs in same group and 2 foreigners wtf.

ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
December 14 2010 13:08 GMT
#73
Reading this thread again: wow, I really don't get why people think it's wrong to have 2 "foreigners" in the same group.

If you're just sad about it, that's one thing of course. But some seem to imply that GOM should have adjusted for that.
Hello=)
Moragon
Profile Joined October 2010
United States355 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 13:25:04
December 14 2010 13:12 GMT
#74
On December 14 2010 22:06 Dandel Ion wrote:
Prediction:
E: Leenock, Genius


Any reason? Rainbow is the seeded player in that group, assassinating the last protoss in GSL 1 and 2 quarterfinals, Tester in season 1 and Genius in season 2. The only reason MC may be in the season 3 finals is that he didnt have to play Rainbow. The guy just doesnt lose to toss, and theres 2 toss in his group.
daxile
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada829 Posts
December 14 2010 13:19 GMT
#75
I got;
Group A: Nestea, Maka
Group B: FruitDealer, MVP
Group C: HongUn, BoxeR
Group D: Kyrix, Tester
Group E: Leenock, Genius
Group F: MC, NaDa
Group G: MarineKing, Clide
Group H: Check, IdrA (sorry jinro )


I wanna see Kyrix and Tester decimate their group ;O
to live is to suffer
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
December 14 2010 13:20 GMT
#76
On December 14 2010 22:08 ParasitJonte wrote:
Reading this thread again: wow, I really don't get why people think it's wrong to have 2 "foreigners" in the same group.

If you're just sad about it, that's one thing of course. But some seem to imply that GOM should have adjusted for that.


They adjusted fine for BoxeR many times GSL3 =/
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
December 14 2010 13:22 GMT
#77
On December 14 2010 22:12 Moragon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 22:06 Dandel Ion wrote:
Prediction:
E: Leenock, Genius


Any reason? Rainbow is the seeded player in that group, assassinating the last protoss in GSL 1 and 2 quarterfinals, Tester in season 1 and Genius in season 2.


Because he looked really weak in GSL3. Maybe he's just not good at TvZ (which would mean that Leenock would still walk all over him).

Also, Genius could've beaten him in his semis, if he played his own builds instead of ripping off InCa's style and failing at it. Which, as I recall, he admitted in his Interview.

I honestly expect Genius to beat him this time. And since Leenock can probably take both Genius and Rainbow, those two are the ones I see advancing.


(Plus, I just don't like Rainbow, but that's just a minor factor in my decision!)
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Moragon
Profile Joined October 2010
United States355 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 13:36:07
December 14 2010 13:23 GMT
#78
Group G is a joke. Marineking needs to change up his style because it is getting stale, liveforever hasnt played since season 1, and Clide/Legalmind cant get past the round of 64 since season 1. IdrA and Jinro should be happy that if they advance they can destroy the winners of this group.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 13:28:06
December 14 2010 13:25 GMT
#79
What horrible groups. Such an absurd amount of mirrors as well as team kills (and the single foreigner kill).

I can understand wanting to be random but couldn't you put some parameters into the group settings to make them not a joke? If people do think random is the only way then there is no reason you shouldn't be able to reshuffle these results randomly again (don't even tell us if u dont want tho it's too late now). There isn't a reasonable person alive who can look at these brackets and think they are good in any conceivable way.

Also, I like how "randomly" Boxer ends up with a complete joke of a group.
Intangibil
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania20 Posts
December 14 2010 13:27 GMT
#80
Obvious reasons for people to say groups are fucked up. However, I believe the real problem rests with the system itself: having groups of 4 limits possible outcomes a lot. Less match-up possibilities means the greater the error in value measurement, more match-up possibilities (something closer to a league-type format) minimizes the error.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
December 14 2010 13:27 GMT
#81
On December 14 2010 22:25 On_Slaught wrote:
Also, I like how "randomly" Boxer ends up with a complete joke of a group.


Oh boy here we go again.
Tell me, why isn't he in a 4 Terran group then, hmmm?
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Teton
Profile Joined May 2010
France1656 Posts
December 14 2010 13:28 GMT
#82
On December 14 2010 22:25 On_Slaught wrote:
What horrible groups. Such an absurd amount of mirrors as well as team kills (and the single foreigner kill).

I can understand wanting to be random but couldn't you put some parameters into the group settings to make them not a joke?

Also, I like how "randomly" Boxer ends up with a complete joke of a group.


Disagree.
s1eger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States126 Posts
December 14 2010 13:30 GMT
#83
My Prediction is

Group A: Nestea, Maka
Group B: FruitDealer, MVP
Group C: HongUn, BoxeR
Group D: Kyrix, sSKS
Group E: Leenock, Rainbow
Group F: MC, NaDa
Group G: MarineKing, Clide (weird and really easy group)
Group H: Idra, Jinro
cOoL
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
December 14 2010 13:30 GMT
#84
is there anything there about the map pool?
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 13:32:56
December 14 2010 13:32 GMT
#85
The only reason HongUn will advance is because his group is relatively easy and BoxeR might lose to TheWind, but HongUn has NEVER beat anyone of significance except Clide in season 1 with a voidray rush (beating season 1 Zenio was not tough and I'm in the party that says FD lost those games more than HongUn won).

Also, the same goes for Check, who I guess was kind of a hero in Season 1 to be the 2nd farthest advancing Zerg...but his list of wins is even less impressive taking out Sans and some WeRRas essentially. I think Jinro has the best shot in that group, and it's a toss up on the other 3 players - probably Ensnare if you can prove to still be good again, but if not, I'd bet IdrA.

All the other groups are pretty tough...Nestea has the easiest opponents by far though, and it's kind of funny MK is in a group WITHOUT zergs...so he might have a problem there.
the farm ends here
Widar
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden261 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 13:33:14
December 14 2010 13:32 GMT
#86
A: NesTea, Maka
B: FruitDealer, MVP
C: HongUn, BoxeR
D: Kyrix, Tester
E: Genius, Leenock
F: MC, NaDa
G: MarineKing, Clyde
H: Jinro, Check
Fake it till you make it
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
December 14 2010 13:32 GMT
#87
On December 14 2010 22:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
is there anything there about the map pool?


Probably "randomly" chosen. A.K.A.

Steppes -> Delta -> Jungle Basin
zerious
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3803 Posts
December 14 2010 13:34 GMT
#88
lol MVP getting all TvZ
bRuTaL!!
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland588 Posts
December 14 2010 13:36 GMT
#89
On December 14 2010 21:00 Zaka wrote:
>Sorting based on teams, nationality, race?

Uh, yes? It's called a drawing. Three pots with each a race. Every group will at least get one T, Z and P.



And what will you say to those that think it should be based on nationality instead? Or teams? What about seeds?


On December 14 2010 21:47 Dagobert wrote:

Actually this is a misconception. It isn't neutral, nor is it random. The order in which people draw the tickets is already a confounding factor. The df (degrees of freedom) decrease with every person who draws. It's not random, this is just a matter of conditional probabilities (i.e. which group you draw is not independent of the previous draws). If I knew more about the procedure they used I could say more, but from what I could gather, this is the conclusion.

Also, if the 'most equal' distribution is what you're aiming for, then using this sort of "randomization" is not a good choice because sample distributions for variables only start to even out at n>30 (25 if you're feeling lucky) per group. So if you want an even distribution of skill/race within each of the 8 cells, that's at least N=240 (200) players in total. We're at 32.


I dont know if I understand you correctly, but if I do, your wrong . Presuming that the drawing itself is random, then the results are random as well. You should be thinking of the drawings as a whole. Say you have 32 names in a hat, you draw them and you get them out in certain order. You put them back and shake the hat and draw again. Will the result of the first draw effect the next one? No. Theres 2,63*10^35 different orders to draw 32 names out a hat. All have the same chance. Its the same thing in lottery. Just because you can make some guesses what the 7 numbers are going to be after you see the first six, doesnt really help you to guess what the numbers are going to be before any are drawn.

Tasteless: "What was it Hans Solo was frozen in? Kryptonite?" Artosis: "Lol, no. Thats the stuff that hurts Batman."
Horse...falcon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1851 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 13:48:27
December 14 2010 13:40 GMT
#90
It's not completely random is it? Nestea, Fruitdealer, Rainbow, Marineking, MC, and Rain are all in different groups. It looks like they were careful to separate the top seeds into different groups.


edit: went back to the rankings again, yeah it looks like they seeded the top 16

Top 8
Group B - 1. TSL_FruitDealer - 8850 points
Group A - 2. IMNesTea - 8799 points
Group E - 3. ST_RainBOw - 6799 points
Group G - 4. MarineKingPrime.WE - 5500 points
Group F - 5. oGsMC - 4649 points*
Group D - 6. TSL_Rain - 4350 points*
Group C - 7. HongUnPrime.WE - 4299 points
Group H - 8. oGsEnsnare - 3199 points

Top 9-16
Group C - 9. SlayerSBoxeR - 2850 points
Group A - 10. MakaPrime.WE - 2549 points
Group H - 11. Liquid`Jinro - 2500 points
Group G - 11. NEXLiveForever - 2500 points
Group F - 13. oGsInCa - 2199 points
Group E - 14. NsP_Genius - 2149 points
Group B - 14. oGsZenio - 2149 points
Group D - 16. KyrixZenith - 1799 points

Group D - 16. ChoyafOu - 1799 points
Artosis: "From horsssse....falcon"
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
December 14 2010 13:41 GMT
#91
I like how they put the top 2 Protoss in the same group... with yet another Protoss. Here, let's take the best Protoss players possible and subject them to playing the absolute worst, random match-up in Starcraft 2... TWICE EACH.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Moragon
Profile Joined October 2010
United States355 Posts
December 14 2010 13:42 GMT
#92
On December 14 2010 22:40 Horse...falcon wrote:
It's not completely random is it? Nestea, Fruitdealer, Rainbow, Marineking, MC, and Rain are all in different groups. It looks like they were careful to separate the top seeds into different groups.


The 8 players with the most points were seeded into separate groups, correct.
Gaius Baltar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States449 Posts
December 14 2010 13:44 GMT
#93
Does anybody know how the round 2 groups get formed? Most important, if IdrA and Jinro both go through, they won't be in the same group again, will they?

I wonder if they can set it up in such a way that if two players from the same group progress and don't lose until they meet each other again, they would meet in the final.
weiliem
Profile Joined January 2008
2071 Posts
December 14 2010 13:55 GMT
#94
I fear for Nada.... really hope he make it out of that oGs group. =.= .. hoping for him to beat MC. xD then he can tell the whole world that he can beat the best PvT in the world.... xD, 1 can dream
Oppa feeding style
zak
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1009 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 14:00:21
December 14 2010 13:55 GMT
#95
On December 14 2010 21:58 esperanto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:36 zak wrote:
thanks for this! wow group D has Brazil, Germany, France, and Argentina. group of death!


I am interessted which one is which one?

I dont like to see so many players of one team in one group (like oGs in group F, B or C), things like this end up in situations where you either eliminate your teammate or trade points so you both can advance. They should have had a system for their picking where teammates cant end up in the same group.



hehe

Tester is Brazil - The tried and tested player.
Kyrix is Argentina - Messi like ATTACK!
Choya is Germany - Superb FF DEFENSE
and Rain is France - Anything for a win. Cheesing and head-butting, all is fair!
You know how to gain a victory, but not use it - maharbal
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
December 14 2010 13:57 GMT
#96
damn. Jinro and Idra in same group. Would have loved to see Idra in group B vs Zenio.
Boundless
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada588 Posts
December 14 2010 14:03 GMT
#97
These groups are poorly chosen. Group B is a huge group of death, with arguably two of the best Zergs in the world, and arguably the best Terran in the world.

Also, SO many mirror matchups and team kills. Why are there two groups with three Terrans and one group with three Zergs? Why is there one group with three oGs members in it?

Gah, I hope someone at GomTV comes to their senses before the next league starts.
"Sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." - Romans 6:14
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
December 14 2010 14:10 GMT
#98
While my dreams of a Code S final between Jinro and IdrA don't look too likely now, isn't anyone else super-excited that we will at least get to see them play?! It's been so long since we've seen a high level ZvT that enters the late game (Clide v Leenock is the last one I can think of), and with both IdrA's and Jinro's tendencies to macro beyond belief... this should at least give us some super high level play matches :p

Not to mention-
+ Show Spoiler +
TSL_Rain cheeses his way to the finals of Season 3, so he gets choya, the most aggro zerg in the GSL, and the anti-cheese himself Tester. Owned.
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
December 14 2010 14:19 GMT
#99
On December 14 2010 22:55 zak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 21:58 esperanto wrote:
On December 14 2010 20:36 zak wrote:
thanks for this! wow group D has Brazil, Germany, France, and Argentina. group of death!


I am interessted which one is which one?

I dont like to see so many players of one team in one group (like oGs in group F, B or C), things like this end up in situations where you either eliminate your teammate or trade points so you both can advance. They should have had a system for their picking where teammates cant end up in the same group.



hehe

Tester is Brazil - The tried and tested player.
Kyrix is Argentina - Messi like ATTACK!
Choya is Germany - Superb FF DEFENSE
and Rain is France - Anything for a win. Cheesing and head-butting, all is fair!


I would think Kyrix is more like the German blitzkrieg offense, and Choya's FF defense is more like Spain. The joke, overall, was funny though. =p
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
KillAudio
Profile Joined October 2010
1364 Posts
December 14 2010 14:21 GMT
#100
oGsInca, oGsMC and oGsNaDa in 1 group?!
From a scale of sheth to idra, how mad are you?
ShootingStars
Profile Joined August 2010
1475 Posts
December 14 2010 14:23 GMT
#101
man fruitdealer sucks at ZvZ... uh oh
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 14:26:18
December 14 2010 14:25 GMT
#102
On December 14 2010 22:25 On_Slaught wrote:
Also, I like how "randomly" Boxer ends up with a complete joke of a group.


Boxer will lose to both HongUn and TheWind, you'll see.

I like the groups. GSL 3 was obviously set up to provide the most entertaining matches, but at some point it appeared really...."designed"....as if the tournament was indeed pre-planned.
Now the groups are "terrible", but in a good way, if I make any sense at all. Completely random, some hard groups some easy ones, some with many mirrors some with few, some with teamkills incoming (MC vs Inca vs Nada will be awsome³), some with many different teams - I like it.

Genius having to play against the "easy" rainbow again after the fail in GSL 2 will be interesting.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 14 2010 14:31 GMT
#103
On December 14 2010 22:55 zak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 21:58 esperanto wrote:
On December 14 2010 20:36 zak wrote:
thanks for this! wow group D has Brazil, Germany, France, and Argentina. group of death!


I am interessted which one is which one?

I dont like to see so many players of one team in one group (like oGs in group F, B or C), things like this end up in situations where you either eliminate your teammate or trade points so you both can advance. They should have had a system for their picking where teammates cant end up in the same group.



hehe

Tester is Brazil - The tried and tested player.
Kyrix is Argentina - Messi like ATTACK!
Choya is Germany - Superb FF DEFENSE
and Rain is France - Anything for a win. Cheesing and head-butting, all is fair!

Rofl at France comparison, perfection.
the farm ends here
fainez
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States91 Posts
December 14 2010 14:34 GMT
#104
wow thats so weird, i did my own mock drawing with 4 pots (1-8 = pot #1 etc) and got idra and jinro in the same group. I laughed at the time and wondered what gom would do if that happened. looks like i got my answer. to be honest I kind of like it this way, we have yet to see 2 non-koreans play in the GSL, could be cool.
xza
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore1600 Posts
December 14 2010 14:35 GMT
#105
Group F is a little overkill. Why the hell did they put 3 oGs members in 1 group
"What a terrible final. This is why BO3s are horrible. Seriously MKP vs Moon in a final and having it BO3 is like having Mila Kunis naked in your bed and all she'll give you is a HJ with her PJs on. Pffffffffffffffftt." -greatZERG
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
December 14 2010 14:40 GMT
#106
On December 14 2010 23:35 xza wrote:
Group F is a little overkill. Why the hell did they put 3 oGs members in 1 group


It's called random.

Also with both IdrA and Jinro in the same group...anybody realize that this increases the chances that one foreigner makes it through quite heavily?
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
NehR
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden87 Posts
December 14 2010 14:41 GMT
#107
I love the fact that people are whining over the groups. It shows that people really care and want what's best for the players (and the most entertainment value).

But as I just completely love mirror MU's I couldn't be more happy.
'If you keep standing upside down, we'll never get into town.'
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 14:46:29
December 14 2010 14:44 GMT
#108
On December 14 2010 22:55 zak wrote:
Tester is Brazil - The tried and tested player.
Kyrix is Argentina - Messi like ATTACK!
Choya is Germany - Superb FF DEFENSE
and Rain is France - Anything for a win. Cheesing and head-butting, all is fair!


Following that analogy, Idra is England.

The media talks about how awesome he is and how he's gonna go far, but when he gets knocked out early everybody starts talking about how overrated and predictable he is. =D
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 14:46 GMT
#109
On December 14 2010 23:41 ChokedKitten wrote:
I love the fact that people are whining over the groups. It shows that people really care and want what's best for the players (and the most entertainment value).

But as I just completely love mirror MU's I couldn't be more happy.

I agree but it is a bit annoying though. But people have become fans of some certain players so they care a lot and want the best for them.

But this is the S league the highest level or consistent of the GSL players are there. So naturally there are going to be many upsets.
Some groups have players who could potentially be finals worthy and there are 2-3 (this is just a random number) in each group so people are already going to be disappointed that 1 won't make it through to the 2nd groupstage.

But still Bo1 with high level players. It is mind boggling but also going to be very tense to see what they will show out of their sleeve.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
HydroXy
Profile Joined May 2010
United States513 Posts
December 14 2010 14:47 GMT
#110
Had to put the two foreigners in the same group, huh?
Probably just as bad to be in group F with 3/4 being teammates on oGs
dartoo
Profile Joined May 2010
India2889 Posts
December 14 2010 14:53 GMT
#111
I looked at the jinro-IDra group and I was like thats the group of death...but then there are a lot of group of deaths here :D
Boundless
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada588 Posts
December 14 2010 15:05 GMT
#112
On December 14 2010 23:44 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 22:55 zak wrote:
Tester is Brazil - The tried and tested player.
Kyrix is Argentina - Messi like ATTACK!
Choya is Germany - Superb FF DEFENSE
and Rain is France - Anything for a win. Cheesing and head-butting, all is fair!


Following that analogy, Idra is England.

The media talks about how awesome he is and how he's gonna go far, but when he gets knocked out early everybody starts talking about how overrated and predictable he is. =D

And then he talks in his "jolly old England" accent and rips on the people who beat him. =D
"Sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." - Romans 6:14
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 15:07:40
December 14 2010 15:07 GMT
#113
lol sanzenith is so fucked ^^
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
December 14 2010 15:08 GMT
#114
On December 15 2010 00:07 Arcanefrost wrote:
lol sanzenith is so fucked ^^


At least no zerg in his group, so no more cannon-FEs
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
MadZ
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark111 Posts
December 14 2010 15:11 GMT
#115
it sucks that idra an jinro is in the same group but im kinda excited to see their match because they are both macro oriented... and we probally dont see allins for once :D
farseerdk
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada504 Posts
December 14 2010 15:11 GMT
#116
Mass OGS group T_T
Perspective is merely an angle.
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 14 2010 15:15 GMT
#117
Even though oGs has the teamkill, it guarantees at least 2 of them will pretty much go through...unless Sanszenith pulls the most greatest and most annoying upset of all time.
the farm ends here
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 15:19:40
December 14 2010 15:19 GMT
#118
This is a little ridiculous. It's like they were angry at people accusing them for rigging the brackets to avoid mirrors and teamkills, and so they ensured the Code S tournament was going to be all mirrors and teamkills.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
December 14 2010 15:19 GMT
#119
On December 14 2010 23:44 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 22:55 zak wrote:
Tester is Brazil - The tried and tested player.
Kyrix is Argentina - Messi like ATTACK!
Choya is Germany - Superb FF DEFENSE
and Rain is France - Anything for a win. Cheesing and head-butting, all is fair!


Following that analogy, Idra is England.

The media talks about how awesome he is and how he's gonna go far, but when he gets knocked out early everybody starts talking about how overrated and predictable he is. =D


I really dont get this anology. He got 2nd in IEM, 1st in MLG NY or wherever it was, and the only foreigner to qualify for each GSL, and even finishing as high as top 16 once, and never lower than 32. How anyone in their right minds can call that overrated I have no clue.
Dead girls don't say no.
paradigmsort
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada10 Posts
December 14 2010 15:19 GMT
#120
is there any seeding in this? It looked for a moment that the top 8 from S3 were all in separate groups, but group D has (T)Rain and (P)Choya and group E has none...
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 15:22:52
December 14 2010 15:22 GMT
#121
On December 14 2010 22:32 Fa1nT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 22:30 BLinD-RawR wrote:
is there anything there about the map pool?


Probably "randomly" chosen. A.K.A.

Steppes -> Delta -> Jungle Basin


I meant custom maps,but I guess thats asking too much.......we won't be having customs for a while I guess.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 15:22 GMT
#122
On December 15 2010 00:19 paradigmsort wrote:
is there any seeding in this? It looked for a moment that the top 8 from S3 were all in separate groups, but group D has (T)Rain and (P)Choya and group E has none...

It's based on ratings they aquired on all 3 seasons.
The top8 are drawn to each separate group and the rated 9-16 do the same.
The rated 17-32 however could get in the same groups which has happened I believe.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
allen_ami
Profile Joined December 2010
China1392 Posts
December 14 2010 15:23 GMT
#123
it is BO3 for group stage?
Single boy, single boy, single all the way. Online game, masturbate, we go all the way, hey! Single boy, single boy, why can't I be gay? No more wait, no more hate, let us all be gay!
Fedex
Profile Joined November 2010
United States28 Posts
December 14 2010 15:24 GMT
#124
...Group F is ridiculous. Zenith, Inca, MC aaaand Nada?
Stay classy
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
December 14 2010 15:25 GMT
#125
wow that really blows they put IdrA and Jinro together to eliminate the other :-/
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
December 14 2010 15:26 GMT
#126
On December 15 2010 00:24 Fedex wrote:
...Group F is ridiculous. Zenith, Inca, MC aaaand Nada?


Its called a group of death and its not ridiculous.We see one of these every OSL.

On December 15 2010 00:23 allen_ami wrote:
it is BO3 for group stage?


its BO1 round robin,BO3 would take ridiculously long to cast.

Welcome to Teamliquid by the way.

Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
frucisky
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2170 Posts
December 14 2010 15:28 GMT
#127
Looks like there's gonna be plenty of mirrors!!
<3 DongRaeGu <3
Scoop
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland482 Posts
December 14 2010 15:29 GMT
#128
There's one group with 3/4 protoss, one group of 3/4 zerg and three groups of 3/4 terrans... Couldn't they possible have evened the races out between these groups? There's three groups without a protoss.... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!

Idra nd Jinro in the same group, 3/4 oGs members in group F. SERIOUSLY.

Was this a random draw?
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 15:32:00
December 14 2010 15:30 GMT
#129
On December 15 2010 00:29 Scoop wrote:
There's one group with 3/4 protoss, one group of 3/4 zerg and three groups of 3/4 terrans... Couldn't they possible have evened the races out between these groups? There's three groups without a protoss.... WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!

Idra nd Jinro in the same group, 3/4 oGs members in group F. SERIOUSLY.

Was this a random draw?


I'm pretty sure it was a random draw.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 14 2010 15:31 GMT
#130
It's like Shann said, it was a random draw but they went by randomizing Top 8, than randomizing Top9-16 etc, so that way it was all the high seeds are separated and you don't end up with a group containing SansZenith/LegalMind/Anypro all at once.
the farm ends here
Scoop
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland482 Posts
December 14 2010 15:33 GMT
#131
On December 15 2010 00:08 sleepingdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 00:07 Arcanefrost wrote:
lol sanzenith is so fucked ^^


At least no zerg in his group, so no more cannon-FEs


You mean manner cannon nexus block?
Fedex
Profile Joined November 2010
United States28 Posts
December 14 2010 15:35 GMT
#132
On December 15 2010 00:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 00:24 Fedex wrote:
...Group F is ridiculous. Zenith, Inca, MC aaaand Nada?


Its called a group of death and its not ridiculous.We see one of these every OSL.




Yep, aware that it's a group of death, which by definition is ridiculous from a spectators point of view. Every game is going to cause a huge stir, no matter who wins.
Stay classy
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
December 14 2010 15:36 GMT
#133
that is a lot of oGs players but three in one group is pretty brutal

I wonder how they came up with these groups
brood war for life, brood war forever
Tyree
Profile Joined November 2010
1508 Posts
December 14 2010 15:41 GMT
#134
If it wasent random, then people would complain that its "rigged" especially in Slayers Boxers case. If it wasent that it will be the maps, if it wasent the maps it would be something else like Artosis hair, or Tasteless EG plug.

The community needs in general just to let go a bit and enjoy the tournaments instead of nitpicking everything.
★ Top Gun ★
Champagne
Profile Joined December 2010
2 Posts
December 14 2010 15:41 GMT
#135
I hope Clide gets second and Idra, first in their respective groups. It'd be great to see a Macro TvZ for once.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 15:45:07
December 14 2010 15:44 GMT
#136
On December 15 2010 00:41 Champagne wrote:
I hope Clide gets second and Idra, first in their respective groups. It'd be great to see a Macro TvZ for once.


Jinro against Idra??

Too bad Jinro and Idra are together. But they got a pretty easy group. If this was 100% random they are very very lucky.
I had a good night of sleep.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
December 14 2010 15:50 GMT
#137
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.
Somnolence
Profile Joined August 2010
Lithuania127 Posts
December 14 2010 15:51 GMT
#138
I take the groups will be remade after each season?
zoOv
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia269 Posts
December 14 2010 15:54 GMT
#139
WTF three oGs in one group thats such bad luck for oGs. One of them won't make it through.
Terror Australis :: [TA] :: Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard
mordk
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Chile8385 Posts
December 14 2010 15:56 GMT
#140
Its a tough group for IdrA and jinro, I think Check > IdrA most likely, and jinro > Check. We'll have to see about ensnare but he's no pushover.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
December 14 2010 15:56 GMT
#141
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.
I had a good night of sleep.
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 16:06 GMT
#142
On December 15 2010 00:51 Somnolence wrote:
I take the groups will be remade after each season?

Yes and most likely it will be done in the same matter (maybe next year we're going to see it broadcasted).

On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

Already been done by GOM and the community hence they were able to do the drawings in a seeded order.
Jinro was in the 9-16 and Idra was in the 17-32 range drawing order.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Philip2110
Profile Joined April 2010
Scotland798 Posts
December 14 2010 16:19 GMT
#143
Jinro and IdrA being in the same group is pretty crappy.
Master Sc2 - Diamond LoL - Eu W
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 14 2010 16:34 GMT
#144
On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Rankings
the farm ends here
hi_0
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada249 Posts
December 14 2010 16:37 GMT
#145
Man oGs representing! Really looking forward to Jinro vs Idra
IrT4nkz
Profile Joined May 2010
229 Posts
December 14 2010 16:38 GMT
#146
NESTEA and NaDa are going to have to just practice 1 race o.O! Kinda sucks for oGs, so much team killing going on. *Sad face* Jinro and IdrA in the same group.
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
December 14 2010 16:44 GMT
#147
These are pretty awful groups. So many teamkills, mirrors, and stacking the foreigners?

If there ever was a good time for bracket rigging, this would be it. All of these guys made Code S so there isn't really an argument for favoritism, but no one wants to see teamkill mirror matches all day in the Ro64.

Also, awful, awful luck for jooktojung and sanzenith.
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
December 14 2010 16:48 GMT
#148
On December 14 2010 20:20 bearhug wrote:
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/292


Red -Z, Blue -T, Green-P

[image loading]


Group A: 3 Terran, 2 from WE
Group B: 3 Zerg, 2 OGS
Group C: 2 OGS
Group D: 2 TSL
Group E: BALANCED GROUP!
Group F: 3 Toss, 3 OGS
Group G: 3 Terran
Group H: Only 2 foreigners

So there is exactly 1 group that doesn't have teammates or a heavy race slant. I am VERY unhappy with the groups. They could have managed to get almost 1 Toss per group, and the teams barely needed to have to team kill, cept OGS.
One Love
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
December 14 2010 16:51 GMT
#149
Actually come to think of it, if I was SanZenith I would probably just forfeit the tournament with that kind of group.

The guy who cannon blocked himself against Inca, a PvP specialist, MC, a Protoss messiah, and Nada, the legend?

At least jooktojung can try his luck at crazy cheesing/all-in against fruitdealer or zenio and hope it works because of the volatility of ZvZ, sanzenith is just screwed.
SiguR
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada2039 Posts
December 14 2010 16:51 GMT
#150
There is a retarded amount of oGs players in the same groups. .
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 16:57:22
December 14 2010 16:54 GMT
#151
I suppose you have a point about the race slant, but there's absolutely no reason to tweak the groups just to avoid team killing. None. Also, even the groups with heavy race slant won't be that boring considering we'll still, for instance, get 3x ZvT along with 3x TvT out of the group. Furthermore, even with racially balanced groups we might just get those slanted groups later on in the tournament.
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
December 14 2010 16:56 GMT
#152
If this wasnt random I would say they hate the ogs house ...
teko
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada1197 Posts
December 14 2010 16:58 GMT
#153
I can't believe you guys are still complaining.

You were complaining when GSL 3 had some team kills, you complained that GOM's seeding and spreading players by the races is not random enough. Now it's totally random, the players did the draws themselves, and you still complain again.
GildedAdonis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
December 14 2010 16:58 GMT
#154
Actually it's pretty good for oGs in the case of group F. All they have to do is practice vs Choya...
timmyfred
Profile Joined April 2010
United States302 Posts
December 14 2010 16:59 GMT
#155
On December 15 2010 01:34 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Rankings


Thanks for that link. I just copied it straight into Excel, added the group for each player, then sorted and summed. Idra/Junro are indeed in the "easiest" group if we use the GSL Code S points as the determination of skill.

[image loading]

[image loading]
Chance favors the prepared mind. | Winners don't make excuses when the other side plays the game.
GrazerRinge
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
999 Posts
December 14 2010 17:00 GMT
#156
I lol'd at Group a ^^

I think this will be better then Gsl S3...at least i hope =3

Jinro & Idra Hwaiting!!!
"Successful people don't talk much. They listen and take action."
koppik
Profile Joined April 2010
United States676 Posts
December 14 2010 17:01 GMT
#157
Well, at least Clide and MK should have an easy time in group G. LiveForever quit like before the end of GSL1, and legalmind is just not good.
zerious
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3803 Posts
December 14 2010 17:07 GMT
#158
In terms of difficulty, I'd rank

Group B as most difficult and Group G as the weakest

HeroHenry
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1723 Posts
December 14 2010 17:09 GMT
#159
On December 15 2010 01:48 Sleight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2010 20:20 bearhug wrote:
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/292


Red -Z, Blue -T, Green-P

[image loading]


Group A: 3 Terran, 2 from WE
Group B: 3 Zerg, 2 OGS
Group C: 2 OGS
Group D: 2 TSL
Group E: BALANCED GROUP!
Group F: 3 Toss, 3 OGS
Group G: 3 Terran
Group H: Only 2 foreigners

So there is exactly 1 group that doesn't have teammates or a heavy race slant. I am VERY unhappy with the groups. They could have managed to get almost 1 Toss per group, and the teams barely needed to have to team kill, cept OGS.


Wouldn't it also be kind of like a team kill since its jinro and ensare?
Aikin
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria532 Posts
December 14 2010 17:11 GMT
#160
Part of me actually likes that Idra and Jinro are in the same group. That will be the first big korean tournement in wich we see two foreigners play each other.

After seeing this groups im pretty pumped for the first S-Class tournement because there wont be like 50% nonames in the first round. Seeded tournements are great when you already know who to root for.)
[A]dmiral Bulldog | Naniwa | [A]lliance
mprs
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2933 Posts
December 14 2010 17:15 GMT
#161
Luckily, the top 2 from a group advance, so our heroes Jinro and Idra have a chance of both making it. A lot of team killing though for oGs... thats what they get for having 8 players make it.

Here are the team numbers (feel free to edit this into OP):

8 oGs
6 Prime.WE
4 TSL
4 ZeNEX
3 f0u
2 IM
1 sls
1 TL
1 NsP
1 ST
1 EG
We talkin about PRACTICE
Klamity
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States994 Posts
December 14 2010 17:18 GMT
#162
The other upside to Jinro and IdrA being in the same group is that the chances of one of them advancing are significantly improved.
Don't believe in yourself, believe in me, who believes in you.
koOma
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway462 Posts
December 14 2010 17:20 GMT
#163
TESTER ONE TIME!!
He wears a mask so when he dogs his face / Each and every race could absorb the bass /// ST_Life
EsMors
Profile Joined August 2010
53 Posts
December 14 2010 17:26 GMT
#164
Amount of different matchups will be:

TvZ: 14
TvP: 12
TvT: 8
ZvP: 5
PvP: 5
ZvZ: 4


I wouldn't say that's so many mirrors. Actualy, I love the way they are drawing the groups. How boring would it be if every season would look almost the same, because they have to take teams, races and nationality into account? Stuff like Jinro and Idra being in the same group is great, it adds tension and makes everything more dramatic. In a year, I will be able to remember this tournament, because it will be the one where Idra and Jinro had to play against eachother early, and where oGs had a lot of team kills. If they hand picked the groups so everything was as "fair" and homogenous as possible, none of the tournaments would have anything special about them.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
December 14 2010 17:35 GMT
#165
group F has so much teamkill :/
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
December 14 2010 17:52 GMT
#166
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Yeah, replace Idra with 17-32 seed with some other 17-32 seed players.
Like put him in Group F instead of sanZenith.
Or in Group B instead of jookTo.
Or E instead of Anypro.
Those groups would all be harder for Idra imho. Ensare didnt show anything after GSL1. Check is about the same level as Idra. And I'd give Idra the edge over Jinro in a macro game.
Of course you can go "Well - let's switch Idra (17-32seed) with Nestea (Top8 seed)" and he's going to have an easier group. But that doesnt make sense.


I'm honestly more worried about the BO1 stuff. Cheese & Allins prevail!
reprise
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada316 Posts
December 14 2010 17:53 GMT
#167
Poor group F. Hopefully Nada makes it out Ensnare and Check aren't bad players, but I can see Jinro and Idra making it out pretty easy so not much worry there.
for graphs of passion, and charts of stars
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
December 14 2010 17:54 GMT
#168
What the fuck? They put the two foreigners in the same grp? .. wow .. this is stupid.
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
December 14 2010 17:54 GMT
#169
My feeling is that IdrA and Jinro are the better players in that group, but it's a Bo1 from what I understand so it's entirely possible for them to both lose as well.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
mprs
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2933 Posts
December 14 2010 17:57 GMT
#170
On December 15 2010 02:54 Bear4188 wrote:
My feeling is that IdrA and Jinro are the better players in that group, but it's a Bo1 from what I understand so it's entirely possible for them to both lose as well.


or both of them to win
We talkin about PRACTICE
Kyouya
Profile Joined January 2008
Mexico318 Posts
December 14 2010 18:02 GMT
#171
On December 15 2010 02:53 reprise wrote:
Poor group F. Hopefully Nada makes it out Ensnare and Check aren't bad players, but I can see Jinro and Idra making it out pretty easy so not much worry there.

Hahaha what!? More like ENSNARE and Jinro, Ensnare is a B-E-A-S-T.
Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
Khalum
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria831 Posts
December 14 2010 18:02 GMT
#172
Could someone with the required privileges please update the OP with this [1], so that people stop crying about ...

What the fuck? They put the two foreigners in the same grp? .. wow .. this is stupid.

... which gets really old after 9 pages of ppl telling other ppl that it's based on seeds and drawing?

Thanks a lot.

[1] http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/forum/6819
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 18:03:43
December 14 2010 18:03 GMT
#173
On December 15 2010 01:59 timmyfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 01:34 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Rankings


Thanks for that link. I just copied it straight into Excel, added the group for each player, then sorted and summed. Idra/Junro are indeed in the "easiest" group if we use the GSL Code S points as the determination of skill.

[image loading]

[image loading]


Then again, group F (with Nada, MC, Inca and san) is supposed to be the second easiest going by that criteria. So yeah, I don't think that's exactly an accurate determination of skill.
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11048 Posts
December 14 2010 18:03 GMT
#174
A bit hypocritical on my part, but I wish the groups ABFG were mixxed up abit. Atleast if they had managed to get approx 1 zerg in every group. Groups E and H are going to be particularally good to watch. E since it's the best toss group H because it's just the best mix over all.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
awu25
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2003 Posts
December 14 2010 18:08 GMT
#175
On December 15 2010 02:54 Senx wrote:
What the fuck? They put the two foreigners in the same grp? .. wow .. this is stupid.

wtf? the put 4 koreans in the same group?
why the hell should they go out of their way to split up the foreigners in a random draw
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
December 14 2010 18:22 GMT
#176
On December 15 2010 03:08 awu25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 02:54 Senx wrote:
What the fuck? They put the two foreigners in the same grp? .. wow .. this is stupid.

wtf? the put 4 koreans in the same group?
why the hell should they go out of their way to split up the foreigners in a random draw


Lol agreed. Its just that fanboys here don't want to see foreigners possibly knocking each other hahaha. Remember, GomTV cares about foreigners in the GSL but they still want the Code S dominated by Koreans.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
December 14 2010 18:24 GMT
#177
Wow, group F, 3 of oGs top players, that sucks for oGs...and sanzenith
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 18:31:38
December 14 2010 18:31 GMT
#178
On December 15 2010 03:08 awu25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 02:54 Senx wrote:
What the fuck? They put the two foreigners in the same grp? .. wow .. this is stupid.

wtf? the put 4 koreans in the same group?
why the hell should they go out of their way to split up the foreigners in a random draw


Because GOMTV wants to appeal to the foreign community? They're milking money off of us through their choppy stream, putting the only 2 foreigners to make the 32 man tournament in the same grp isn't exactly a smart business plan.
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
December 14 2010 18:32 GMT
#179
On December 15 2010 03:22 riverkim09 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 03:08 awu25 wrote:
On December 15 2010 02:54 Senx wrote:
What the fuck? They put the two foreigners in the same grp? .. wow .. this is stupid.

wtf? the put 4 koreans in the same group?
why the hell should they go out of their way to split up the foreigners in a random draw


Lol agreed. Its just that fanboys here don't want to see foreigners possibly knocking each other hahaha. Remember, GomTV cares about foreigners in the GSL but they still want the Code S dominated by Koreans.

Because it would be smarter and attract more viewers to split up all the big-names. There's no favoritism or match-fixing there, these guys are all Code S so they should be prepared to fight each other.

For example, let's say there are only four players: LegalMind, JooktoJung, Jinro, and Idra. What sounds like a better scenario: LegalMind vs JooktoJung and Jinro vs Idra, or LegalMind vs Idra and JooktoJung vs Jinro? More people want to watch Jinro and Idra, so in the first scenario where one game has neither of them and instead has some relatively unpopular players, you're going to end up with less views overall. In scenario two on the other hand, all 3 games involve a foreigner so you're going to have more views.

It's just smart operation of a tournament. People want to watch big names more and they prefer inter-race matches rather than mirror matches. People want to watch team rivalries more than they want to watch teamkills. So it makes perfect sense to split up the big names, races, and teams.

Imagine if there was some BW tournament where Flash had to face off against Jaedong in the first round while every other match was between B-team unknowns. That would be completely awful and once one of them were eliminated views for the entire tournament would be cut almost in half.
MahatmaSC2
Profile Joined December 2010
United States192 Posts
December 14 2010 18:34 GMT
#180
Jinro vs IdrA gogogogogogo
Team ZeNEX fighting!
Denizen[9]
Profile Joined July 2010
United States649 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 18:39:49
December 14 2010 18:39 GMT
#181
If i had to count out 1 person from each group it would be
Group A- (T)TheBestfOu
Group B- (Z)oGsJookTo
Group C- (T)oGsHyperdub
Group D- (P)choyafOu
Group E- (P)anyproPrime.WE
Group F- (P)SanZenith
Group G- LegalMindZenith Unless (T)NEXLiveForever doesnt play
Group H- (Z)CheckPrime.WE

What are your picks
Jaedong, Baby | Idra, Marineking, Tester, Nada
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
December 14 2010 18:41 GMT
#182
On December 15 2010 03:39 GobIin wrote:
If i had to count out 1 person from each group it would be
Group A- (T)TheBestfOu
Group B- (Z)oGsJookTo
Group C- (T)oGsHyperdub
Group D- (P)choyafOu
Group E- (P)anyproPrime.WE
Group F- (P)SanZenith
Group G- LegalMindZenith Unless (T)NEXLiveForever doesnt play
Group H- (Z)CheckPrime.WE

What are your picks


I would say CheckPrime is a better zerg than Idra so your group H is wrong.
kcaz
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada387 Posts
December 14 2010 18:44 GMT
#183
2 quick thoughts, like a few people mentioned on the first page, WTF is up with the groups with 3 of X and 1 of Y? And the group with 3 ogs guys? 2 foreigners in the same group? C'mon there should be some discretion with the groups. And 1 question I had, how did sSKS (read: Tester) get code S?
You can't emphasize enough how much you need to be a paradigm shifter. - Ma Jae Yoon
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
December 14 2010 18:45 GMT
#184
I think it would've been better if they did group selection with FD, Nestea, GSL 3 winner + finalists + other 2 high points players.....

As it is so many team kills and 2 foreigners in same group
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
December 14 2010 18:47 GMT
#185
On December 15 2010 03:44 kcaz wrote:
2 quick thoughts, like a few people mentioned on the first page, WTF is up with the groups with 3 of X and 1 of Y? And the group with 3 ogs guys? 2 foreigners in the same group? C'mon there should be some discretion with the groups. And 1 question I had, how did sSKS (read: Tester) get code S?

GSL1 he made it to the ro8 against HopeTorture/TSL_Rainbow
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
Denizen[9]
Profile Joined July 2010
United States649 Posts
December 14 2010 18:48 GMT
#186
On December 15 2010 03:41 riverkim09 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 03:39 GobIin wrote:
If i had to count out 1 person from each group it would be
Group A- (T)TheBestfOu
Group B- (Z)oGsJookTo
Group C- (T)oGsHyperdub
Group D- (P)choyafOu
Group E- (P)anyproPrime.WE
Group F- (P)SanZenith
Group G- LegalMindZenith Unless (T)NEXLiveForever doesnt play
Group H- (Z)CheckPrime.WE

What are your picks


I would say CheckPrime is a better zerg than Idra so your group H is wrong.


I think IdrA is a better player than check, check's macro doesnt impress me, what would your groups be?
Jaedong, Baby | Idra, Marineking, Tester, Nada
Sakarabu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom132 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 18:50:19
December 14 2010 18:48 GMT
#187
Why do you people seem to have such a fucking hard time with the concept of a RANDOM draw.

They literally picked their groups out of a hat. Please stfu about "GOM didn't set up the groups properly". It is completely random, they do not have any control over the groups, and this is by far the fairest way to do it. Infact I would expect an outcry if the groups were preset by GOM, as that would just scream of match fixing.

It doesn't matter what is best for the foreign community, they can't have favouritism towards certain players or the whole system is flawed.
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
December 14 2010 18:50 GMT
#188
On December 15 2010 03:48 Sakarabu wrote:
Why do you people seem to have such a fucking hard time with the concept of a RANDOM draw.

They literally picked their groups out of a hat. Please stfu about "GOM didn't set up the groups properly". It is completely random, they do not have any control over the groups, and this is by far the fairest way to do it. Infact I would expect an outcry if the groups were preset by GOM, as that would just scream of match fixing.

Please explain how it would be match fixing.

Also, they "randomly" picked the GSL3 maps too, and that's how we ended up with Steppes of War in every match. Random isn't always fair and it's definitely not a very smart way to run a tournament.
Mascherano
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Argentina1726 Posts
December 14 2010 18:52 GMT
#189
Ugh I hate group B and group F.
zvz and pvp are such fickle matchups right now. Unless both people do that same build order usually 1 gets rofl stomped (barring huge mistakes from the bo winner of course)

Other than that looks like we are going to have some really awesome games, can't wait.
Bisu
DoXa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Switzerland1448 Posts
December 14 2010 18:54 GMT
#190
WHO MADE THESE BRACKETS?? - Artosis

but seriously, this will be very interesting to watch. sad to see the two foreigners in the same group but the groups seem (are?) random so it happenes. also there will be alot of teamkills and mirror matches
If i had to chose for the two advancing players:

Group A: maka, nestea
Group B: MVP, zenio
Group C: Thewind, Hongung (Boxer not lucky with the TvT's here)
Group D: tester, rain
Group E: leenock, genius
Group F: MC, inca (Nada has to show us his TvP)
Group G: foxer, clide
Group H: idra, ensnare (really tough group to choose from who'll end up winning)
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 18:54:42
December 14 2010 18:54 GMT
#191
On December 15 2010 03:50 Krigwin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 03:48 Sakarabu wrote:
Why do you people seem to have such a fucking hard time with the concept of a RANDOM draw.

They literally picked their groups out of a hat. Please stfu about "GOM didn't set up the groups properly". It is completely random, they do not have any control over the groups, and this is by far the fairest way to do it. Infact I would expect an outcry if the groups were preset by GOM, as that would just scream of match fixing.

Please explain how it would be match fixing.

Also, they "randomly" picked the GSL3 maps too, and that's how we ended up with Steppes of War in every match. Random isn't always fair and it's definitely not a very smart way to run a tournament.

Uh..if they preset the groups, that means THEY choose the matches, so they have now fixed the matches. They did a random picking + seeding ranking method, there is really no other way to do a tournament that would constitute 'fair'...
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/forum/6819
the farm ends here
svperstar
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden60 Posts
December 14 2010 18:55 GMT
#192
I hope GOMTV realizes they are loosing money if the foreigners loose interest, something surely to happen every time a foreigner gets knocked out. Just check the "view counts" on VODs on gomtv.net.

Then again they might not make enough money on their premium service for this to make a difference. On the other hand, why would they have reserved spots for foreigners if they didn't care.

Also for S1-3 gomtv admitted they seeded every foreign player into different groups, why not continue doing that?
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
December 14 2010 18:58 GMT
#193
OMG, totally rigged lol, GOM so biased, Boxer TvT herp derp, soooo unfair.

2 weeks later ...

WTF groups! Random shit, Jinro Idra rubble rubble foreigners, mirrors ROFLBBQ, who made dis!?
I think esports is pretty nice.
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
December 14 2010 18:58 GMT
#194
well that's a kick in the teeth.. gl to idra/jinro.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Sakarabu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom132 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:01:53
December 14 2010 18:59 GMT
#195
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 15 2010 03:50 Krigwin wrote:
On December 15 2010 03:48 Sakarabu wrote:
Why do you people seem to have such a fucking hard time with the concept of a RANDOM draw.

They literally picked their groups out of a hat. Please stfu about "GOM didn't set up the groups properly". It is completely random, they do not have any control over the groups, and this is by far the fairest way to do it. Infact I would expect an outcry if the groups were preset by GOM, as that would just scream of match fixing.

Please explain how it would be match fixing.

Also, they "randomly" picked the GSL3 maps too, and that's how we ended up with Steppes of War in every match. Random isn't always fair and it's definitely not a very smart way to run a tournament.


Because if someone has to pick who fights who there will always be (even a subconcious) level of bias. Even by splitting up the foreigners (or purposely putting them in the same group) you are then saying "Ok we want to give the foreigners an advantage over the Koreans". I hope you can see the flaw in that system and therefore why random seeding is the best option (indeed, the only option).

Randomly drawing maps is also a completely different situation to what we have here, even bringing that up shows your complete lack of logic and understanding of the draw.

Also something people seem to be completely overlooking is the fact that 2 people from each group go through. So this actually gives both Jinro and Idra a BETTER (or at the very least equal to being in different groups) chance of making it through to the next round.
Raigeki
Profile Joined September 2010
Hong Kong207 Posts
December 14 2010 19:01 GMT
#196
idra vs jinro... garanteed macro game any1?
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
December 14 2010 19:01 GMT
#197
my picks
a) maka and nestea
b) fd and mvp
c) boxer and dunno
d) cant be predicted
e) rainbow and genius
f) mc and inca
g) foxer and clide
h) jinro and ensare or check
TURKISHRAMBO
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada148 Posts
December 14 2010 19:05 GMT
#198
All groups aside.

May the best man win.

This will be one SICK tourny.

Im guessing this will be streamed on GOMtv?
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
December 14 2010 19:07 GMT
#199
On December 15 2010 04:05 TURKISHRAMBO wrote:
All groups aside.

May the best man win.

This will be one SICK tourny.

Im guessing this will be streamed on GOMtv?


this is for gsl4 so yes it will
next year =X
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
December 14 2010 19:12 GMT
#200
there was definitely a system to how they set this up, but they can't go by teams, or foreigners or any of the sort, they strickly have to go by the points people have, and arrange it so that the groups are arranged to be of "equal difficulty" Here's some quick analysis that I've done.

Assuming winners are assigned 5 points you have
nestea, and FD

finalists are assigned 4 points:
MC, Rain, Rainbow, MarineKingPrime

semis are 3:
NexLive
Ensnare
SlayerSBoxeR
HongUn
Jinro

quarters are 2:
Choya
Kyrix
Genius
Nada
Zenio
Maka
Inca
sSKS

and the rest are assigned one point.

if you actually tally up each of the groups, you end up with
A: 9
B: 9
C: 8
D: 10 (hell group all are quarter finalists or better)
E: 8 (but hopetorture is 3rd ranked player by points, so they may assign him extra point of difficulty)
F: 9
G: 9
H: 8

So overall, they tried to space out the ranking and result winners across the groups as best they could. Lets face it, while IdrA is one of our foreign heroes, he hasn't shown the results as well as some of the other korean players, and as such was one of the "fill in the hole" guys in the group regardless of his actual skill level or not. As for race balancing, it's never the case for them to try to race balance, they never have when making the brackets, it's based solely on the rankings/results, that way you don't somehow end up putting 2 finalists into the same group because of race balancing. Overall the groups seem pretty even in difficulty if you go by the rankings, except for group D, where you have 3 quarterfinalists and 1 finalist in there (there were no fillers in that group).

My predictions are just gonna go by stats because that's the way I gamble:
A) Nestea - Maka
B) FD and Zenio (maybe mvp, depending on if he improves further or not)
C) Boxer and HongUn
D) Rain and Tester
E) Rainbow and Genius
F) MC and Nada
G) Foxer and Nexlive (if he plays) otherwise Clide
H: Ensnare and Jinro
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
VeNoM HaZ Skill
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 19:19:45
December 14 2010 19:15 GMT
#201
Lol. oGs has 8 in code S, which is amazing btw, but almost everyone of them is grouped with a teammate.... WTF?

+ Show Spoiler +
there was definitely a system to how they set this up, but they can't go by teams, or foreigners or any of the sort, they strickly have to go by the points people have, and arrange it so that the groups are arranged to be of "equal difficulty" Here's some quick analysis that I've done.

Assuming winners are assigned 5 points you have
nestea, and FD

finalists are assigned 4 points:
MC, Rain, Rainbow, MarineKingPrime

semis are 3:
NexLive
Ensnare
SlayerSBoxeR
HongUn
Jinro

quarters are 2:
Choya
Kyrix
Genius
Nada
Zenio
Maka
Inca
sSKS

and the rest are assigned one point.

if you actually tally up each of the groups, you end up with
A: 9
B: 9
C: 8
D: 10 (hell group all are quarter finalists or better)
E: 8 (but hopetorture is 3rd ranked player by points, so they may assign him extra point of difficulty)
F: 9
G: 9
H: 8

So overall, they tried to space out the ranking and result winners across the groups as best they could. Lets face it, while IdrA is one of our foreign heroes, he hasn't shown the results as well as some of the other korean players, and as such was one of the "fill in the hole" guys in the group regardless of his actual skill level or not. As for race balancing, it's never the case for them to try to race balance, they never have when making the brackets, it's based solely on the rankings/results, that way you don't somehow end up putting 2 finalists into the same group because of race balancing. Overall the groups seem pretty even in difficulty if you go by the rankings, except for group D, where you have 3 quarterfinalists and 1 finalist in there (there were no fillers in that group).

My predictions are just gonna go by stats because that's the way I gamble:
A) Nestea - Maka
B) FD and Zenio (maybe mvp, depending on if he improves further or not)
C) Boxer and HongUn
D) Rain and Tester
E) Rainbow and Genius
F) MC and Nada
G) Foxer and Nexlive (if he plays) otherwise Clide
H: Ensnare and Jinro


Well there is a thread explaining the exact points system i think first was like 4650 or something...
#1 MMA fan! I like you too Taeja. Still patiently waiting for the Crown Prince to become the King.
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
December 14 2010 19:15 GMT
#202
Weren't people complaining about how it was all rigged a few weeks ago and now that it is very obvious that it is random you complain? Seriously? Groups look fine. Excited for 2011.
Life is Good.
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
December 14 2010 19:20 GMT
#203
On December 15 2010 03:59 Sakarabu wrote:
Show nested quote +
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 15 2010 03:50 Krigwin wrote:
On December 15 2010 03:48 Sakarabu wrote:
Why do you people seem to have such a fucking hard time with the concept of a RANDOM draw.

They literally picked their groups out of a hat. Please stfu about "GOM didn't set up the groups properly". It is completely random, they do not have any control over the groups, and this is by far the fairest way to do it. Infact I would expect an outcry if the groups were preset by GOM, as that would just scream of match fixing.

Please explain how it would be match fixing.

Also, they "randomly" picked the GSL3 maps too, and that's how we ended up with Steppes of War in every match. Random isn't always fair and it's definitely not a very smart way to run a tournament.


Because if someone has to pick who fights who there will always be (even a subconcious) level of bias. Even by splitting up the foreigners (or purposely putting them in the same group) you are then saying "Ok we want to give the foreigners an advantage over the Koreans". I hope you can see the flaw in that system and therefore why random seeding is the best option (indeed, the only option).

Randomly drawing maps is also a completely different situation to what we have here, even bringing that up shows your complete lack of logic and understanding of the draw.

Also something people seem to be completely overlooking is the fact that 2 people from each group go through. So this actually gives both Jinro and Idra a BETTER (or at the very least equal to being in different groups) chance of making it through to the next round.

I don't see the flaw in that system actually. And it's not giving the foreigners an advantage over the Koreans, it's splitting up the foreigners so we have a smaller chance of foreigners killing foreigners.

You're making the mistake of arguing from the assumption that "fair" equals good. I don't agree with that assumption. I couldn't care less actually, if the brackets were biased and every match in the first round had a big name versus a lesser-known player. That would end up with a better tournament overall with more big-names clashing later in longer series, thus resulting in better and more balanced games and brackets, and with more viewers total for the tournament which helps esports and helps GomTV.

Going back to my original example, if we had a group of four players, Jinro and Idra and two no-names, I would very much like it for the tournament organizers to be biased as hell and give the foreigners an advantage over the Koreans and have Jinro and Idra face off against the two no-names rather than each other in the first round. That would also eliminate the possibility of one of the two foreigners getting knocked out first round while some lesser player advances simply because he was lucky and randomly placed into an easier bracket. That's the epitome of unfairness in my opinion.

For example, in this GSL, I don't think it's good for the tournament that KyrixZenith, winner of the all-stars and fantastic player, gets knocked out in the first round while Monster advances. That deprived us of potentially excellent future games from Kyrix simply because he had the bad luck of the draw to face off against a teammate who knew his play inside out in the Ro64. I don't think it's good for the tournament that BitbyBitPrime.WE made it further than Sen, Ret, Boxer, and Idra simply because he had an easier bracket. Three crowd-drawing foreigners and one revolutionary legend get knocked out in the Ro32 while an all-in machine facerolls further into the tournament simply because he had a better luck of the draw. Now, was it "fair"? Perhaps. But it was incredibly bad for the tournament and cost them tons of views and potentially awesome matches.

Fair does not equal good. Random does not equal good. Smarter selection of matches and brackets will be better for everyone - better for the players as it ensures fairer matches for all, better for the viewers because it ensures better games and more representation of big-names, and better for the tournament because it gets more views. Don't assume that I agree with your silly belief that being "fair" is good for anyone.

Also, explain how random map selection is a "completely" different situation.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 14 2010 19:24 GMT
#204
I actually like that we'll get to see Jinro vs IdrA. This is like when people complained that Boxer and Nada would meet in the Ro8 instead of finals.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 14 2010 19:29 GMT
#205
Also the drawing wasn't entirely random, players were placed into three pools and each group has one player from pools 1 and 2 and two from pool 3.

Pool 1: Fruitdealer, NesTea, Rainbow, MarineKing, MC, Rain, HongUn, Ensnare
Pool 2: Boxer, Maka, Jinro, LiveForever, Inca, Genius, Zenio, Kyrix
Pool 3: Choya, Check, sSKS, Nada, Idra, Leenock, TheWind, Clide, SanZenith, MVP, Anypro, TheBestfOu, LegalMind, JookToJung

So the players who were successful in GSL 1-3 got spots in pools 1 and 2 and avoided having to face other players who were successful in GSL 1-3. It's a fair system, although not the most exciting with all the mirrors.
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
December 14 2010 19:31 GMT
#206
On December 15 2010 04:15 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:
Lol. oGs has 8 in code S, which is amazing btw, but almost everyone of them is grouped with a teammate.... WTF?

+ Show Spoiler +
there was definitely a system to how they set this up, but they can't go by teams, or foreigners or any of the sort, they strickly have to go by the points people have, and arrange it so that the groups are arranged to be of "equal difficulty" Here's some quick analysis that I've done.

Assuming winners are assigned 5 points you have
nestea, and FD

finalists are assigned 4 points:
MC, Rain, Rainbow, MarineKingPrime

semis are 3:
NexLive
Ensnare
SlayerSBoxeR
HongUn
Jinro

quarters are 2:
Choya
Kyrix
Genius
Nada
Zenio
Maka
Inca
sSKS

and the rest are assigned one point.

if you actually tally up each of the groups, you end up with
A: 9
B: 9
C: 8
D: 10 (hell group all are quarter finalists or better)
E: 8 (but hopetorture is 3rd ranked player by points, so they may assign him extra point of difficulty)
F: 9
G: 9
H: 8

So overall, they tried to space out the ranking and result winners across the groups as best they could. Lets face it, while IdrA is one of our foreign heroes, he hasn't shown the results as well as some of the other korean players, and as such was one of the "fill in the hole" guys in the group regardless of his actual skill level or not. As for race balancing, it's never the case for them to try to race balance, they never have when making the brackets, it's based solely on the rankings/results, that way you don't somehow end up putting 2 finalists into the same group because of race balancing. Overall the groups seem pretty even in difficulty if you go by the rankings, except for group D, where you have 3 quarterfinalists and 1 finalist in there (there were no fillers in that group).

My predictions are just gonna go by stats because that's the way I gamble:
A) Nestea - Maka
B) FD and Zenio (maybe mvp, depending on if he improves further or not)
C) Boxer and HongUn
D) Rain and Tester
E) Rainbow and Genius
F) MC and Nada
G) Foxer and Nexlive (if he plays) otherwise Clide
H: Ensnare and Jinro


Well there is a thread explaining the exact points system i think first was like 4650 or something...


yeah i just did the math on the rankings, and if you go by rankings, most groups are around the same difficulty based on ranking with 3 major exceptions.
(The lower the total, the more high ranked players there are in the group)
A: 68
B: 68
C: 63
D: 58
E: 70
F: 65
G: 70
H: 59

group C has a rank 7 and a rank 9 as well as a rank 23 and 24.
group D has a rank 6, 16, 17, and 19.
group H has a rank 8, 12, 18, and 21.
and actually of all the "fill in the hole, non-ro8 players" IdrA is the second highest ranked of them all at 21 only behind CheckPrime at 18.

I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 14 2010 19:36 GMT
#207
Nobody needs to start doing math and guess work, it has already all been stated:

17:10 - Players who have acquired code S are taking their seats for the drawing. Top 8 players will be seeded in groups A to H. Then players from 9~16th will take turn to draw and will be placed in seperate groups A to H(one player per group). Then players from 17th to 32nd will draw and here there will be chance that two players will draw same groups in a row.

the farm ends here
MajorityofOne
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2506 Posts
December 14 2010 19:43 GMT
#208
Group A: IMNestea, TheBestfOu
Group B: TSL.Fruitdealer, IMmvp
Group C: HongUnPrime.WE, SlayerS_'Boxer'
Group D: TSL.Rain, TSL.sSKS
Group E: Nsp.Genius, LeenockfOu
Group F: oGsMC, oGsNaDa
Group G: MarinekingPrime.WE, TSL.Clide
Group H: TLAF.Jinro, EGIdra

Yeah, I have all 4 TSL advancing and only 2 of 8 oGs. Quality over quantity!
Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
December 14 2010 19:50 GMT
#209
On December 15 2010 04:29 jalstar wrote:
Also the drawing wasn't entirely random, players were placed into three pools and each group has one player from pools 1 and 2 and two from pool 3.

Pool 1: Fruitdealer, NesTea, Rainbow, MarineKing, MC, Rain, HongUn, Ensnare
Pool 2: Boxer, Maka, Jinro, LiveForever, Inca, Genius, Zenio, Kyrix
Pool 3: Choya, Check, sSKS, Nada, Idra, Leenock, TheWind, Clide, SanZenith, MVP, Anypro, TheBestfOu, LegalMind, JookToJung

So the players who were successful in GSL 1-3 got spots in pools 1 and 2 and avoided having to face other players who were successful in GSL 1-3. It's a fair system, although not the most exciting with all the mirrors.

They should have gone even further than that. They should have taken one more step and shuffled the players around a little to drop the amount of teamkilling and mirrors a bit.

For example, switch Jinro with Inca and MC with Nestea. Now Group F has no teamkilling at all and a better race representation. Switch Kyrix with Maka and Hyperdub with LegalMind, there's another example. That wasn't hard at all and the relative balance of skill has remained the same, but now we have better-looking brackets with less teamkilling and mirrors. What's wrong with that? What exactly is so bad about that that it's unfair and biased and match fixing?
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 19:50 GMT
#210
Let's all stop the conspiracies please. Last time it got out of hand and GOM replied and then it made even more useless threads about GOM rigging matches. Do you guys not see this hurts e-sports if you people only complain and come up with conspiracies? Can't you guys just be happy that we have 2 foreigners in the S league and that we have sick matches coming up?

These conspiracies don't really help esports at all. If you really think there could be improvements then post your theories on the GOM forum in a mannerfull way. There is no point in discussing what is the better group drawing or seeding system on TL since you need to take it with GOM not TL. Too much whining tbh.

I however am super excited for the groupstages. I knew we had so many good players but this is just sick. Can't wait to see oGsMC vs oGsInCa or any of NaDa's games and Tester's games and of IMMVP.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
BuzzJuice
Profile Joined April 2010
United States97 Posts
December 14 2010 19:52 GMT
#211
This is random, but the really bad kind. Don't know why it should be like this though when you can sort of control, and input in a system that randomizes based on getting unique matchups, controlling for team members etc.

So many mirrors, and check out that quite a few groups have multiple members of the same team. That's just bad. [Note, yeah, I do feel bad that two foreigners are in the same group, but separating them because of 'lack of foreigners'? Or saying it should be redone because of that? Doesn't that border on the line of 'minority protection' or something?]

And especially for groups with so many mirrors like G and F, they only have to practice up to 2 matchups, maybe even one? That really fair considering other groups like C, D and E have to practice all three?

My question: If all 16 people are going straight to GSL 4 Ro16, does it mean no one qualifies to Ro16 from the bottom?
Macro and Micro - the only M&M you need to know
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 20:10 GMT
#212
On December 15 2010 04:52 BuzzJuice wrote:
This is random, but the really bad kind. Don't know why it should be like this though when you can sort of control, and input in a system that randomizes based on getting unique matchups, controlling for team members etc.

So many mirrors, and check out that quite a few groups have multiple members of the same team. That's just bad. [Note, yeah, I do feel bad that two foreigners are in the same group, but separating them because of 'lack of foreigners'? Or saying it should be redone because of that? Doesn't that border on the line of 'minority protection' or something?]

And especially for groups with so many mirrors like G and F, they only have to practice up to 2 matchups, maybe even one? That really fair considering other groups like C, D and E have to practice all three?

My question: If all 16 people are going straight to GSL 4 Ro16, does it mean no one qualifies to Ro16 from the bottom?

What do you mean with

My question: If all 16 people are going straight to GSL 4 Ro16, does it mean no one qualifies to Ro16 from the bottom?

Only a maximum of 8 players from A league will be able to qualify for GSL 5 S league. It can even happen that 0 players from A league will get into S league.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
TheLonelyCarrier
Profile Joined December 2010
United States36 Posts
December 14 2010 20:22 GMT
#213
So if I am understanding correctly, this will be 48 best of 3 series between nothing but the cream of the crop players!! That is a ton of high level SC2. So hype! Can't wait!
He is........they call him........none other than........the one........the only........
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
December 14 2010 20:25 GMT
#214
On December 14 2010 20:23 shell wrote:
Can't understand why don't randomize the groups but using a method that could provide less mirrors and team kills!

there's 9 protoss, 9 zers and 14 terrans, why would there be a group with 3 protoss and another with 3 terran and 3 zerg?? that's stupido imo

Idra and Jinro in the same group also sucks.. hope they make it tho!


Doing that would mean it is not randomized -_-"
BuzzJuice
Profile Joined April 2010
United States97 Posts
December 14 2010 20:26 GMT
#215
I basically mean that will there be anyone BESIDES Code S capable of getting into the round of 16? Are these Code S players the only guys we will see in Ro16 and beyond? So there will be no Ro32 because all the slots are filled? And Ro64 and so on?
Macro and Micro - the only M&M you need to know
PiousMartyr
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada176 Posts
December 14 2010 20:27 GMT
#216
On December 15 2010 01:59 timmyfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 01:34 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Rankings


Thanks for that link. I just copied it straight into Excel, added the group for each player, then sorted and summed. Idra/Junro are indeed in the "easiest" group if we use the GSL Code S points as the determination of skill.

[image loading]

[image loading]


It's clearly not 100% random how they made the teams.

The top 8 players are all in different groups. Players ranked 9-16 are all in different groups.

Then they roughly scattered the bottom 16 players, but roughly made it so that the rankings are mirrored (not sure how else to decribe this). ie: rank 1 paired with rank 32, rank 2 pair with 31, rank 3 paired with 30. It's not exact, but looks like the groups with the best players also have the worst players, and the other groups are all kind of in the middle.
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
December 14 2010 20:40 GMT
#217
On December 15 2010 04:50 shannn wrote:
Let's all stop the conspiracies please. Last time it got out of hand and GOM replied and then it made even more useless threads about GOM rigging matches. Do you guys not see this hurts e-sports if you people only complain and come up with conspiracies? Can't you guys just be happy that we have 2 foreigners in the S league and that we have sick matches coming up?

These conspiracies don't really help esports at all. If you really think there could be improvements then post your theories on the GOM forum in a mannerfull way. There is no point in discussing what is the better group drawing or seeding system on TL since you need to take it with GOM not TL. Too much whining tbh.

I however am super excited for the groupstages. I knew we had so many good players but this is just sick. Can't wait to see oGsMC vs oGsInCa or any of NaDa's games and Tester's games and of IMMVP.


Well said.

Also I see no need at all for reducing the amount of team killing. oGs has the most players in code S so naturally there will be more team killing. Why should GOM cater to the team that has the most members?
esperanto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany357 Posts
December 14 2010 20:42 GMT
#218
Actually I am kinda excited to see Idra vs. Jinro, these are gonna be some awesome games and we can be sure they arent full of cheese or one-base allins.

And this increases the chance, that at least one foreigner survives the group-rounds.
HeroHenry
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1723 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 20:47:53
December 14 2010 20:47 GMT
#219
On December 15 2010 04:43 MajorityofOne wrote:
Group A: IMNestea, TheBestfOu
Group B: TSL.Fruitdealer, IMmvp
Group C: HongUnPrime.WE, SlayerS_'Boxer'
Group D: TSL.Rain, TSL.sSKS
Group E: Nsp.Genius, LeenockfOu
Group F: oGsMC, oGsNaDa
Group G: MarinekingPrime.WE, TSL.Clide
Group H: TLAF.Jinro, EGIdra

Yeah, I have all 4 TSL advancing and only 2 of 8 oGs. Quality over quantity!

I'm pretty sure you didn't pick quality in group H
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 14 2010 20:53 GMT
#220
On December 15 2010 05:22 TheLonelyCarrier wrote:
So if I am understanding correctly, this will be 48 best of 3 series between nothing but the cream of the crop players!! That is a ton of high level SC2. So hype! Can't wait!

Please read the GSL S league thread in the community news.

It's Bo1 in the group stages and there are 2 group stages.

On December 15 2010 05:26 BuzzJuice wrote:
I basically mean that will there be anyone BESIDES Code S capable of getting into the round of 16? Are these Code S players the only guys we will see in Ro16 and beyond? So there will be no Ro32 because all the slots are filled? And Ro64 and so on?

There is a Code S league which means only S code players can play in it.
Those S code players are the 32 mentioned in this OP. So naturally the ro16 is going to be only of S code players. There is no ro64 because it's a 32man tournament. Please read the community news to gain more knowledge about this.

On December 15 2010 05:27 PiousMartyr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 01:59 timmyfred wrote:
On December 15 2010 01:34 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Rankings


Thanks for that link. I just copied it straight into Excel, added the group for each player, then sorted and summed. Idra/Junro are indeed in the "easiest" group if we use the GSL Code S points as the determination of skill.

[image loading]

[image loading]


It's clearly not 100% random how they made the teams.

The top 8 players are all in different groups. Players ranked 9-16 are all in different groups.

Then they roughly scattered the bottom 16 players, but roughly made it so that the rankings are mirrored (not sure how else to decribe this). ie: rank 1 paired with rank 32, rank 2 pair with 31, rank 3 paired with 30. It's not exact, but looks like the groups with the best players also have the worst players, and the other groups are all kind of in the middle.

You didn't need to do all that to find out how they made up the groups.
GOM did not make the groups however they might have drawn some players into a group if they are unable to themselves. The players who could attend the ceremony drawed themselves.

Rank 1-8 players each draws a group meaning they won't be in the same group.
Rank 9-16 players are also drawn into a group but cannot be in the same group with eachother but they will be put in the same group as rank 1-8.
Then from rank 17-32 each player will draw a group and that is where you will be put. Meaning it is done by a player's draw in which group they are placed in. You may call it unlucky that 3 oGs players managed to draw themselves to the same group.
Players that are not able to attend to draw will automatically give GOM the right to draw for them. Don't know for which people this happened.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
lindn
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden833 Posts
December 14 2010 21:11 GMT
#221
nada inca and mc in the same group.

interesting....
namedplayer
Profile Joined June 2010
844 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 21:12:14
December 14 2010 21:11 GMT
#222
[image loading]

there was a drawing lots and code-s gamers include Idra were there.
You know what I'm talking about
koppik
Profile Joined April 2010
United States676 Posts
December 14 2010 21:13 GMT
#223
Yeah, I'm a big fan of MC, InCa, and NaDa, so it's pretty disappointing that they're all in the same group.

On the upside, I'm pretty much sure that SanZenith is going to be the one eliminated from S-code.
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
December 14 2010 21:22 GMT
#224
Three oGs teammates in the same group? Lol - domination!

Group A and B look really scary; particularly group B - there are some big names in the same group.

IdrA and Jinro in the same group just sucks; yes i know top 2 progress but it reduces their chances of going through (i think?)
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
Liquid_Adun
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada205 Posts
December 14 2010 21:25 GMT
#225
SanZeneth must be feeling fantasic with all of the people in his group. lol. Thats going to be the best group for sure.
I have returned.
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 14 2010 21:38 GMT
#226
On December 15 2010 06:11 namedplayer wrote:
[image loading]

there was a drawing lots and code-s gamers include Idra were there.

Wow, NEXLiveforever actually lives?!
the farm ends here
Moragon
Profile Joined October 2010
United States355 Posts
December 14 2010 21:49 GMT
#227
On December 15 2010 03:03 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 01:59 timmyfred wrote:
On December 15 2010 01:34 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Rankings


Thanks for that link. I just copied it straight into Excel, added the group for each player, then sorted and summed. Idra/Junro are indeed in the "easiest" group if we use the GSL Code S points as the determination of skill.

[image loading]

[image loading]


Then again, group F (with Nada, MC, Inca and san) is supposed to be the second easiest going by that criteria. So yeah, I don't think that's exactly an accurate determination of skill.


Its because the champion gets a huge points boost, group F will become third hardest after MC gets that boost, up with the other 2 champions groups.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
December 14 2010 21:51 GMT
#228
jinro and idra in the same group :/
so many groups with only 2 races in it :/
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
LlamaNamedOsama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1900 Posts
December 14 2010 21:59 GMT
#229
Shiet, foreigners in same group - foreigners fighting!

Also, how did Tester [at least im assuming TSL SKS in group D is tester] get into class S again? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with GSL that much, but from what I recall he didn't even make ro64 for at least the first two GSLs and I don't remember seeing him in the 3rd
Dario Wünsch: I guess...Creator...met his maker *sunglasses*
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
December 14 2010 22:00 GMT
#230
oGs must be pissed.
You Got The Touch
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
December 14 2010 22:01 GMT
#231
On December 15 2010 06:59 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
Shiet, foreigners in same group - foreigners fighting!

Also, how did Tester [at least im assuming TSL SKS in group D is tester] get into class S again? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with GSL that much, but from what I recall he didn't even make ro64 for at least the first two GSLs and I don't remember seeing him in the 3rd


He got top 8 in GSL 1
You Got The Touch
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
December 14 2010 22:31 GMT
#232
Its incredible that oGs+Liquid controls over 25% of the code S lol.
Aegeis
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1619 Posts
December 14 2010 23:43 GMT
#233
Group F is a oGs group of death
"Skills to pay the bills" - Artosis, https://twitter.com/AegeisSC2 ,http://www.tumblr.com/blog/socal-esports
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 23:49:13
December 14 2010 23:48 GMT
#234
these groups have almost definitely been completely randomised.

shitty groups tho =/

edit: soz just saw post above, they confirmed random. kind of sucks that there are so many mirrors, clanmates together, and ofc jinro and idra =/
EliteReplay
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Dominican Republic913 Posts
December 14 2010 23:48 GMT
#235
well sad to see idra and jinron in same group
if play random i can't call any race imba?
Boonesbane
Profile Joined May 2010
United States170 Posts
December 15 2010 00:26 GMT
#236
Check, Ensnare, IdrA and Jinro is pretty brutal.
" good sir, you appear to be somewhat lacking in intelligence. please refrain from posting until this is remedied, since it renders your opinions slightly less than correct and has a tendency to irritate more informed forum-goers. " - Grack "idrA" Fields
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-15 00:38:45
December 15 2010 00:32 GMT
#237
people aren't really talking about it, but group d is NASTY in my opinion
i also wouldn't want to be anypro imo

if i was idra, i would be happy with my position, drawing ensnare.
hell, when a foreigner is the only one you're not 100% sure you can beat in a macro game, that's a divergent trend from SC1 RTS to SC2 RTS. Hope Jinro/Idra both advance, tbh, as I'm sure a lot of you all do!


Edit: what i mean to say is... in every group you can be like "OK, this guy is weak" and when I say weak, it's relative. Polt is not as good as some of his teammates, it's pretty much a fact. I'm not saying he's by ANY means weak, just that he is probably not going to advance unless he has some weird raven play up his sleeve... real time is so volatile, even a simple harassment can net you a win.

Group D, while not having nestea/foxer/mvp/mc/fruitdealer/whoever you think is best does not have a player that you can say is obviously weaker than the rest. To me, it is between Choya or Kyrix, but both of them are very, very solid. Kyrix will be dangerous to rain, with his banelings.

I'm also really interested to see who gets out of E.

i'm pretty sure G, while having a ton of points, is like the most evident. Clide and Foxer anyone?
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
darklordjac
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2231 Posts
December 15 2010 00:35 GMT
#238
Jinro and Idra in the same group... must not like foreigners.
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
December 15 2010 00:41 GMT
#239
This has obviously been said already but it needs to be said again; it's ridiculous that GOM gets blamed for giving Boxer/foreigners easy paths, but then when they don't they get blamed again for not doing it.
Not that Idra and Jinro's group is the hardest.
koolaid1990
Profile Joined September 2010
831 Posts
December 15 2010 01:02 GMT
#240
Well Slayers boxer had easy groups and jinro too, but idra no. I mean he went against zenio and mvp, thats pretty difficult
Arccotangent
Profile Joined October 2010
519 Posts
December 15 2010 01:08 GMT
#241
On December 15 2010 06:11 namedplayer wrote:
[image loading]

Good to see Tester again. Isn't that Cliiiiiide sitting next to him?
"Taste the zombie's drug, now you want more."
LancerStarcraft
Profile Joined July 2010
United States235 Posts
December 15 2010 03:23 GMT
#242
Group F: The oGs group
Group H: Foreigner group
"Buy a ward. Stop a gank. Save a life."
dOpa
Profile Joined April 2010
United States166 Posts
December 15 2010 03:27 GMT
#243
group F makes me sad. 3 of my favorites in the same group (yes all 3 of my favorites are oGs) and foreigner group makes me pretty sad too >_<. the people who are gonna make it out of these groups are quite predictable too =x
Graduate School = SC2 Hiatus
Pangolin
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1035 Posts
December 15 2010 03:27 GMT
#244
Hopefully Nada has been practicing his TvP and Tester has been practicing against all-ins vs. all races.
It's easier not to.
ccdnl
Profile Joined April 2010
United States611 Posts
December 15 2010 03:31 GMT
#245
If Jinro gets taken out in first group, on top of that by Idra, I will rage smack somebody.
civil cervixes || Kang Min Fan || I like TLO, TLO= German, I like Germans..?
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
December 15 2010 03:33 GMT
#246
A, B, F, and H look to be the most interesting. Can't wait for Jinro vs Idra.
:)
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
December 15 2010 03:34 GMT
#247
Group B is pretty stacked.
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
RoyaleBrainSlug
Profile Joined December 2010
United States295 Posts
December 15 2010 03:35 GMT
#248
welp nestea is gonna get marine'd in the face, may he rest in peace.
Zileas is my Homeboy
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 15 2010 03:35 GMT
#249
On December 15 2010 12:31 ccdnl wrote:
If Jinro gets taken out in first group, on top of that by Idra, I will rage smack somebody.

No way they'll lose to Check.
the farm ends here
Kazzabiss
Profile Joined December 2010
1006 Posts
December 15 2010 06:01 GMT
#250
Poor Inca, there's no way NaDa and MC don't win that group.
ALL ABOARD THE INTERNET BANDWAGON
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
December 15 2010 07:33 GMT
#251
On December 15 2010 05:27 PiousMartyr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 01:59 timmyfred wrote:
On December 15 2010 01:34 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:56 Koshi wrote:
On December 15 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:
There are several easier groups, depending on which players you'd replace idra/jinro with. Not lucky at all really.


Somebody will soon count up the points each group achieved over GSL 1,2,3.
I am pretty sure Jinro/Idra group scores pretty low.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_Rankings


Thanks for that link. I just copied it straight into Excel, added the group for each player, then sorted and summed. Idra/Junro are indeed in the "easiest" group if we use the GSL Code S points as the determination of skill.

[image loading]

[image loading]


It's clearly not 100% random how they made the teams.

The top 8 players are all in different groups. Players ranked 9-16 are all in different groups.

Then they roughly scattered the bottom 16 players, but roughly made it so that the rankings are mirrored (not sure how else to decribe this). ie: rank 1 paired with rank 32, rank 2 pair with 31, rank 3 paired with 30. It's not exact, but looks like the groups with the best players also have the worst players, and the other groups are all kind of in the middle.


i dont really think the points are very meaningful. only becos the amount of points you get for winning for example is frikken enormous, waaaaay more than like RO4.

and i dont think sum1 who won is necessarily 4x better than someone who made RO4 etc
McMonty
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada379 Posts
December 15 2010 07:36 GMT
#252
soo many team kills... I feel bad for OGS...
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
December 15 2010 07:48 GMT
#253
Not all, but most groups are worthlessly done imo.

Oh well, hope the games will be fun.

Poor NesTea, he'll have 3 matches of all ins every game.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
SoJu.WeRRa
Profile Joined June 2010
Korea (South)820 Posts
December 15 2010 08:05 GMT
#254
High level here ^^
나를 찢어갈겨이씨발놈아왜나를미치게만들어니가뭘아는데?
Moletrap
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1297 Posts
December 15 2010 08:08 GMT
#255
Wow, I hope those groups were randomly created.... cuz they sure like to put teammates against each other... and both foreigners in the same group is lame.
aka Moletrap
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
December 15 2010 08:09 GMT
#256
what a bad luck for tester i really hope he prepared for rushes and cheeses because he will face a t p and z opponent who are all known for strong rushs
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 15 2010 08:13 GMT
#257
On December 15 2010 17:09 CoR wrote:
what a bad luck for tester i really hope he prepared for rushes and cheeses because he will face a t p and z opponent who are all known for strong rushs

this is a funny post ^^

Tester is the anti cheese man so he probably will take all those games into mid-late game. Then it depends on how well the opponent is in that stage :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
December 15 2010 08:14 GMT
#258
As I posted in the other thread, whoever was complaining about the GSL brackets being rigged can now sit down and be quiet. This is what happens when it's completely random, it's fair but not always pretty =/

It seems that Genius, Boxer and Tester are the only good players who are going to have to practice all three matchups (although to be fair, Boxer probably doesn't have to practice to beat Hyperdub, and same for Genuis vs Anypro. On the other hand, MVP only has to worry about TvZ and Nestea can devote all of his time to practicing ZvT stopping worker all-ins.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
PWRdichotomy
Profile Joined October 2010
28 Posts
December 15 2010 08:15 GMT
#259
Yea i agree with Bill Murray. Group D, while not having any of the perceived best players, has a really solid set of players making it pretty unpredictable. To me, that is the most interesting group.
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 15 2010 08:17 GMT
#260
On December 15 2010 17:14 FuRong wrote:
As I posted in the other thread, whoever was complaining about the GSL brackets being rigged can now sit down and be quiet. This is what happens when it's completely random, it's fair but not always pretty =/

It seems that Genius, Boxer and Tester are the only good players who are going to have to practice all three matchups (although to be fair, Boxer probably doesn't have to practice to beat Hyperdub, and same for Genuis vs Anypro. On the other hand, MVP only has to worry about TvZ and Nestea can devote all of his time to practicing ZvT stopping worker all-ins.

I'm probably like the only guy who thinks Tester has probably every MU in his favour seeing all 3 of his opponents are all well known aggressors/cheesers which Tester is probably one of the best if not best Protoss who can handle those pushes ^^ and even having a strong mid-late game lol.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Reasonable
Profile Joined September 2010
Ukraine1432 Posts
December 15 2010 08:34 GMT
#261
Can't wait for it to start! Don't even know whom to root for. Many of my favorites are in the same group
Comrade
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden102 Posts
December 15 2010 08:36 GMT
#262
oGs is so over represented lol. Feel bad for them being so clogged up in the same groups except for ensnare.
Fighting capitalist macro everywhere
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
December 15 2010 08:37 GMT
#263
These groups have no balance in them what so ever, I mean some of them players only have to practice 1 match up, you'd think they would try to fix these.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
December 15 2010 08:42 GMT
#264
On December 15 2010 17:37 dRaW wrote:
These groups have no balance in them what so ever, I mean some of them players only have to practice 1 match up, you'd think they would try to fix these.


And that doesn't even matter. If they're truly the best player, they can beat everyone, so it doesn't matter who/what race they face.
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
December 15 2010 08:44 GMT
#265
Couldn't GSL have just made groups by seed, through GSL point rankings?
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 15 2010 08:47 GMT
#266
On December 15 2010 17:44 teamsolid wrote:
Couldn't GSL have just made groups by seed, through GSL point rankings?

Possibly but then you would have rigged groups accusations which no doubt will come if this happens.
To make sure there aren't any accusations on GOM they made it public and fair. As you could see on a screenshot of past pages you saw IdrA and other players attending the draw which was based on GSL point rankings.
This is fair and will prevent of any rigging groups by GOM.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
johanngrunt
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Hong Kong1555 Posts
December 15 2010 08:49 GMT
#267
I think even it this isn't random, it's doing a pretty good job.

having more than 1 of each race is more likely to lead to at least 1 of that race from that group surviving, leading to a more interesting Ro16 and above, instead of just having the later rounds be dominated by 1 race.

just my 2c though.
VENDIZ
Profile Joined October 2010
1575 Posts
December 15 2010 08:51 GMT
#268
Group E & F look fierce!
SaGe fighting!!~~~~~~
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 15 2010 08:54 GMT
#269
On December 15 2010 17:49 johanngrunt wrote:
I think even it this isn't random, it's doing a pretty good job.

having more than 1 of each race is more likely to lead to at least 1 of that race from that group surviving, leading to a more interesting Ro16 and above, instead of just having the later rounds be dominated by 1 race.

just my 2c though.

The Ro16 u mean 2nd groupstage right? Although that is a groupstage consisting of 16 players :p
Seems that line implies u think it'll be a single elimination and if ur not then my apologies for this comment and disregard it then :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Milvus
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland400 Posts
December 15 2010 09:21 GMT
#270
Group F is freaking me out.
Gingerninja
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom1339 Posts
December 15 2010 09:22 GMT
#271
They system they used to distribute players is similar like that of the champions league in Europe. Top 8 seeds get a group. 9-16 then get seeded then the others are scattered around, they do stop teams from the same country getting put into the same group but with 8 ogs players that wasn't going to happen was it. Every player is playing for themselves regardless of team, so they are drawn as individuals. This drawing method works in the mos prestigious football tournament in the world (other than the world cup) so it surely works for starcraft.
戦いの中に答えはある
dahornnn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom395 Posts
December 15 2010 09:46 GMT
#272
Anyone know if nada is sick TvP ^_^?
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
December 15 2010 09:50 GMT
#273
i thought that best 3 in code s points, aka first second and third season champion have some benefits for winning?
something like choosing who the play against?
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
December 15 2010 10:12 GMT
#274
On December 15 2010 18:46 dahornnn wrote:
Anyone know if nada is sick TvP ^_^?


Nada seems to be able to play a very good macro game. That should give him an equal footing against a strong late game race, protoss.
Presidenten
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden777 Posts
December 15 2010 10:30 GMT
#275
so how does this work, I suppose these will be the groups for just the first tournament of 2011? And then they do other groups for other tournaments?
pred470r
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria3265 Posts
December 15 2010 10:32 GMT
#276
Group F is gonna be oGs clan war -_-
Also, how were these groups formed? Random method or what? I'm asking because there are a lot of groups that will be team members vs each other, and that's not cool, because it tends to lead to some freaky mind games, which not a lot of people like to watch.
tertle
Profile Joined February 2010
Australia328 Posts
December 15 2010 10:42 GMT
#277
If you ask me, it doesn't look random.

Looks like they seeded the top 8 players into seperate groups then filled the rest in randomly.
Matrim
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom16 Posts
December 15 2010 10:47 GMT
#278
Yes they seeded the top 8 players into each of the eight groups then randomly populated the rest.

This makes sense. I personally like this as it creates widely differing fields and any other method involves peoples judgement or favouritism in either direction.

Looking forward to it...
But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom
noproblem
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom161 Posts
December 15 2010 10:57 GMT
#279
How is TSL.sSKS (tester) code S? He never made it past the prelims in the last two GSLs. Not saying he doesn't deserve it after his domination of the beta period but it is a little surprising.
(╯°□°)╯︵ du
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
December 15 2010 11:29 GMT
#280
tester got code S for reaching top 8 in GSL 1. There are multiple players who only did well in 1 GSL and didnt even reach another one, nada is one too for example.

As for the groups, completely random like this with only seeding the top 8 (which are basically the GSL finalists + hongun & ensnare) is the best way to do it. Placing players by race, team or nationality would be fairly rediculous.
Placing by race would mean alot less mirrors and though many might like to watch those they ARE simply a part of the game. THe underrepresented races (P & Z) would basically never face a mirror in the first rounds then which would make it easier for them and it would be a bad way to conceal real player skill. Placing by team would be even more stupid as being in a great team would be too advantageous then, for example if you were in ogs you would automatically evade about 7 players then, playing in a team should never ever give a direct advantage like that.
Finally placing by nationality is silly, it's 90% korean and 10% foreigner anyway. There is no good reason to not let the foreigners run into eachother really.
Mainland
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada551 Posts
December 15 2010 11:30 GMT
#281
On December 15 2010 19:57 noproblem wrote:
How is TSL.sSKS (tester) code S? He never made it past the prelims in the last two GSLs. Not saying he doesn't deserve it after his domination of the beta period but it is a little surprising.


He got 1500 points for making Ro8 in GSL1

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170463
bananafever
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria348 Posts
December 15 2010 11:36 GMT
#282
On December 15 2010 20:30 Mainland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 19:57 noproblem wrote:
How is TSL.sSKS (tester) code S? He never made it past the prelims in the last two GSLs. Not saying he doesn't deserve it after his domination of the beta period but it is a little surprising.


He got 1500 points for making Ro8 in GSL1

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170463


defending a proxy in skillfull, epic fashion :D
Mainland
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada551 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-15 11:52:50
December 15 2010 11:39 GMT
#283
It does seem that the top 8 ranked players were assigned to their own groups. It also could've happened randomly. Did GOMTV every say that it would be a completely random draw?
jaminski
Profile Joined September 2010
England84 Posts
December 15 2010 11:45 GMT
#284
to many dam mirror matches did foxer not make code S ? ;o
[ Macrophobia ] [ EU Protoss ] [ Mid Master ]
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
December 15 2010 11:46 GMT
#285
On December 14 2010 20:23 shell wrote:
Can't understand why don't randomize the groups but using a method that could provide less mirrors and team kills!

there's 9 protoss, 9 zers and 14 terrans, why would there be a group with 3 protoss and another with 3 terran and 3 zerg?? that's stupido imo

Idra and Jinro in the same group also sucks.. hope they make it tho!

Doing it that way increases the chances that a protoss or zerg will make it further instead of being knocked out in the first groups. The only way they could make it even higher is having zzzz and pppp groups.
7pool
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden103 Posts
December 15 2010 11:53 GMT
#286
On December 15 2010 20:45 jaminski wrote:
to many dam mirror matches did foxer not make code S ? ;o


He did and he changed his name to MarineKing.
"The reason there's no zergs on the server is cuz fags like you do builds like this." - IdrA
Matrim
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom16 Posts
December 15 2010 12:11 GMT
#287
Mainland, it was not random.

This has been mentioned several times the easiest ref I have found is

GOMTV accounces the system for 2011

at the bottom of the primary post



EDIT: Top 8 of Code S (players who advance to quarter final) get seeds for next season. For example, Top 8 in GSL 4 will be seeded into each 8 group of GSL 5.
But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom
FlatLineX
Profile Joined October 2010
4 Posts
December 15 2010 12:15 GMT
#288
No matter who made this brackets. Keep in mind "there can be only one".
DrakeFZX3
Profile Joined October 2010
United States925 Posts
December 15 2010 12:21 GMT
#289
On December 15 2010 21:11 Matrim wrote:
Mainland, it was not random.

This has been mentioned several times the easiest ref I have found is

GOMTV accounces the system for 2011

at the bottom of the primary post



Show nested quote +
EDIT: Top 8 of Code S (players who advance to quarter final) get seeds for next season. For example, Top 8 in GSL 4 will be seeded into each 8 group of GSL 5.


It's already been mentioned in this thread. Top 8 is seeded randomly in different groups. The next 8 get seeded in the other groups. Everyone else is seeded randomly among all the groups.
Valikyr
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2653 Posts
December 15 2010 12:50 GMT
#290
Such a monster line-up, GSL 4 will be very interesting. Hopefully both IdrA and Jinro make it out of that grp.
astroorion
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1022 Posts
December 15 2010 12:55 GMT
#291
Poor oGs, 3 players in 1 group, 2 in another. Not a good chance oGs will win this one
MLG Admin | Astro.631 NA
BritishBeef
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom372 Posts
December 15 2010 13:00 GMT
#292
Group H is definatnly the group of death in my eyes.. litrally any 4 of those could go through, if i were a betting man i would bet on idra and ensnare .. or idra and jinro... Becuase iv seen idra hand checks ass to him many times with his "legendary wc3 micro" 4x in a row to be exact... and jinro is such solid tvt but ensnare is also a absolute giant, check gets ok distance in gsl so he can't be counted out FUN TIMES!!
legendre20
Profile Joined November 2010
United States316 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-15 13:18:34
December 15 2010 13:15 GMT
#293
Lotta mirror matches. Group B is clearly the death group. Previous GSL winner in FruitDealer and arguably the best Terran in the world in IMMvp, as well as Zenio who is one of the best zergs. Although group H is pretty scary too. Should be some very close games. It's unfortunate about all of the mirrors and team kills though
"Sen, lings are OP" - HelloKittySS /// <3 http://www.twitch.tv/legendre20 <3
Laurence
Profile Joined October 2010
Ireland119 Posts
December 15 2010 13:27 GMT
#294
SanZenith is S-class!!! You mean the wood league player who blocked his expansion with a cannon vs Idra??
Seriously though that guy was horrible he tried to protect an early expand with cannons on Delta quadrant, all 180 degrees of it, and he couldn't even do it right cause he had to kill his own cannon
I pwn n00bs
mrdepace
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2 Posts
December 15 2010 13:37 GMT
#295
i dont know why tasteless and artosis are such big fOu / TSL fans when oGs has the most "high level" players

oGs - 8 (9 if you add jinro)
TSL - 4
fOu - 3

Prime.WE has 6 so even they are out performing fOu/TSL ... TSL maybe cause they have a couple players who have gone really deep into the tournament (fruit/rain) but fOu ... lets be honest leenock and choya are the only ones you can actually remember
Don't argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level then beat you on experience
Romple
Profile Joined October 2010
United States57 Posts
December 15 2010 13:41 GMT
#296
I think because fOu all switched from BW to SC2 together and then made a huge splash in GSL, knocking out a lot of "favorites". And they hype up everyone.
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
December 15 2010 13:46 GMT
#297
Oh well... kinda sucks about the mirrors and the foreigner death group... but I have faith that both will make it out... Definitely looking forward to seeing Jinro in the next one.
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
December 15 2010 14:27 GMT
#298
Looks like there's gonna be a lot of oGs teamkilling.
Eko200
Profile Joined December 2010
United States101 Posts
December 15 2010 14:31 GMT
#299
I like mirrors myself. This early in SC2 lifetime its the only way to get a fair match.
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
December 15 2010 14:36 GMT
#300
Lol so many team kills. oGs house will have awkward practice days now.
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
December 15 2010 14:44 GMT
#301
man both foreigners in the same group....

I still dont understand how this tourney will work.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
December 15 2010 14:56 GMT
#302
On December 15 2010 23:44 Sanguinarius wrote:
man both foreigners in the same group....

I still dont understand how this tourney will work.

they battle it out it in 8 groups of 4 players, the 2 worst players in each of the 8 groups get eliminated.
then they battle it out in 4 groups of 4 players, the 2 worst players in each of the 4 groups get eliminated.
then we have quarterfinals the usual way
then we have semifinals the usual way
then we have finals the usual way
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
Reasonable
Profile Joined September 2010
Ukraine1432 Posts
December 15 2010 15:03 GMT
#303
Any word on 2011 schedule or prize pool? Will the winner still get 86k or are they going to ease up on cash motivation?
m3ss
Profile Joined September 2010
Hungary28 Posts
December 15 2010 15:20 GMT
#304
my picks:
A:nestea, poltprime
B: zenio, mvp
C: wind, hongun
D: tester, choya
E: leenock, hopetorture
F: mc, nada
G: foxer, clide
H: idra, check
gropus b,e,f are pretty hard to pick from..
m3ss
Profile Joined September 2010
Hungary28 Posts
December 15 2010 15:24 GMT
#305
well group D seems like the gropu of death, not too many potential winners, but pretty hard to predict whos gonna progress...
Liquid_Adun
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada205 Posts
December 15 2010 15:37 GMT
#306
We need to open up some liquid bets on these games, see who knows there stuff. ogsmc will with this i think. Nice work on color coding the races, really saves time on doing it myself. Race balance is pretty much expected.

Thanks for the hard work, Adun.
I have returned.
Caveman255
Profile Joined September 2010
Israel79 Posts
December 15 2010 16:51 GMT
#307
3 ogs members in one group...
hitman133
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1425 Posts
December 15 2010 16:56 GMT
#308
wtf, group with 3T,3T and 3Z
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
December 15 2010 16:58 GMT
#309
On December 15 2010 22:15 Monkies wrote:
Lotta mirror matches. Group B is clearly the death group. Previous GSL winner in FruitDealer and arguably the best Terran in the world in IMMvp, as well as Zenio who is one of the best zergs. Although group H is pretty scary too. Should be some very close games. It's unfortunate about all of the mirrors and team kills though


Cannot understand why so many people think MVP is the best Terran player.
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
zerious
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3803 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-15 17:17:03
December 15 2010 17:15 GMT
#310
On December 16 2010 01:58 bearhug wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 22:15 Monkies wrote:
Lotta mirror matches. Group B is clearly the death group. Previous GSL winner in FruitDealer and arguably the best Terran in the world in IMMvp, as well as Zenio who is one of the best zergs. Although group H is pretty scary too. Should be some very close games. It's unfortunate about all of the mirrors and team kills though


Cannot understand why so many people think MVP is the best Terran player.


From what I've seen, MVP is a more refined Starcraft player than Jinro/Foxer. There are not a lot of VODs/Replays released of him, so not a lot of people can see this.

Mephiztopheles1
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
1124 Posts
December 15 2010 17:16 GMT
#311
Pardon my ignorance, but are the first and second group stage played in Bo1 or Bo3 format?
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
December 15 2010 17:29 GMT
#312
On December 16 2010 02:16 Mephiztopheles1 wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but are the first and second group stage played in Bo1 or Bo3 format?

I think this is a thread with the most recent details: (it will be Bo1 for the groups I believe)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177150
the farm ends here
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-15 17:31:25
December 15 2010 17:31 GMT
#313
lol ogs is getting shafted (but of course only nada matters!) though inca/mc are good, probably, but i don't know anything about wings of liberty sooo yeah
Writer
bearhug
Profile Joined September 2010
United States999 Posts
December 15 2010 17:33 GMT
#314
On December 16 2010 02:15 zerious wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 01:58 bearhug wrote:
On December 15 2010 22:15 Monkies wrote:
Lotta mirror matches. Group B is clearly the death group. Previous GSL winner in FruitDealer and arguably the best Terran in the world in IMMvp, as well as Zenio who is one of the best zergs. Although group H is pretty scary too. Should be some very close games. It's unfortunate about all of the mirrors and team kills though


Cannot understand why so many people think MVP is the best Terran player.


From what I've seen, MVP is a more refined Starcraft player than Jinro/Foxer. There are not a lot of VODs/Replays released of him, so not a lot of people can see this.



From what I've seen, MVP is well overrated. He might be TOP 10, but definitely not the best. MK is the best Terran, regardless of his playing style.
We are dusts in the vast cosmic arena. Need to make the most out of life when we still have it.
s[O]rry
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada398 Posts
December 15 2010 18:49 GMT
#315
Mighty unfortunate for Jinro and IdrA but I would love to see them both advance outta that group like a BOSS.
Sunshine.
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
December 15 2010 19:19 GMT
#316
I'd just like to say.

oGs is dominating that board, haha. Go TLAF-oGs!
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
December 15 2010 19:36 GMT
#317
it has come to my conclusion, that no one reads anything past the first page of any thread, since pages 8-15 repeat the same thing, despite being disproved in pages 2-6 -_-'
I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
ZeroTalent
Profile Joined December 2010
United States297 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-15 20:25:48
December 15 2010 20:08 GMT
#318
On December 16 2010 01:56 hitman133 wrote:
wtf, group with 3T,3T and 3Z

If you pick randomly, it's actually more likely than not that a couple of groups will have 3 of one race, that a couple of heavy hitters will end up, etc.

EDIT: n/m, it looks like they did pick based on seeding. Still unless there is some wacky imbalance where seeds 1-16 are heavy Z and 17-32 are heavy P or something you're still going to end up with a group or two that's heavy on one race.

... also what is with the weird pool play format where it can stop after 2 Turns? Why not just do World Cup style pool play, and have some sort of tiebreaker in the event of three 2-1 or 1-2 teams? >_>
Can we get an official definition of "all-in"? Please?
PartyBiscuit
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada4525 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-15 20:17:40
December 15 2010 20:16 GMT
#319
On December 16 2010 05:08 ZeroTalent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 01:56 hitman133 wrote:
wtf, group with 3T,3T and 3Z

If you pick randomly, it's actually more likely than not that a couple of groups will have 3 of one race, that a couple of heavy hitters will end up, etc.

It would have been nice if they did it by seed, so each group has one person from the top 8 finishers, one from 9-15. But ohwell.

They did, there's a few links to the gom page that shows how they did it. Random drawing by Top 8, than the next 8 than etc..
the farm ends here
legendre20
Profile Joined November 2010
United States316 Posts
December 15 2010 20:57 GMT
#320
On December 16 2010 01:58 bearhug wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2010 22:15 Monkies wrote:
Lotta mirror matches. Group B is clearly the death group. Previous GSL winner in FruitDealer and arguably the best Terran in the world in IMMvp, as well as Zenio who is one of the best zergs. Although group H is pretty scary too. Should be some very close games. It's unfortunate about all of the mirrors and team kills though


Cannot understand why so many people think MVP is the best Terran player.



Well that's why I said arguably ^___^

I'd put him up there myself though. Along with others like Clide, Rainbow, Ensnare, Top, MarineKing, and Jinro.
"Sen, lings are OP" - HelloKittySS /// <3 http://www.twitch.tv/legendre20 <3
Mystgun
Profile Joined September 2010
Hong Kong311 Posts
December 15 2010 22:55 GMT
#321
both foreigners in the same group increases the chances that at least one foreigner will advance. Quite frankly in their group i think they both have a chance to advance to RO16
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 15 2010 23:02 GMT
#322
Jinro vs Idra 1st match? This will increase the chance of atleast 1 foreigner making it through to ro16. Winning the first match is very important mentally.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
December 15 2010 23:50 GMT
#323
LOTS of OGs in here, tons of team kills..
jaedong imba
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
December 16 2010 01:18 GMT
#324
Clide and Marineking. I want to see that.
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
December 16 2010 01:25 GMT
#325
Looking at a good bit of oGs/prime team killing?

Sad to see such a low representation of protoss as well. 9/9/14 is a decent split, but not being represented at all in 3 of the 8 groups ensures that less protoss are going to advance than we could be seeing. I really can't stand to watch many more TvZ's, and it seems like GSL has been dominated by them in the past three tournaments. (strangely enough, I don't mind the mirrors like I do TvZ that isn't Foxer.)

I'm also not seeing tester going very far with that group. TSL.Rain, Kyrix, and Choya? Given his GSL history, even though I would like to see "the best protoss" (I haven't seen any of his recent games to be able to be sure in that statement) advance, it doesn't look likely.
iGX
Profile Joined June 2010
Australia414 Posts
December 16 2010 01:38 GMT
#326
is this GOMtv's way of messing with the players and fans altogether? i think this is their idea of a joke.

"we know fruitdealer doesn't play ZvZ much so just for shits and giggles, let's put him with a group of zergs"

"we know that the foreigners are doing really well so let's put them in the same group to kill each other for our own entertainment"

"there's too many oGs players...let's cause some tension among their camp by putting 3 of them in the same group"

seriously GOM TV wtf are you doing?
When your bases are ashes...then you have my permission to "GG".
ch0c0b0fr34k
Profile Joined October 2010
United States452 Posts
December 16 2010 02:34 GMT
#327
On December 16 2010 10:38 iGX wrote:
is this GOMtv's way of messing with the players and fans altogether? i think this is their idea of a joke.

"we know fruitdealer doesn't play ZvZ much so just for shits and giggles, let's put him with a group of zergs"

"we know that the foreigners are doing really well so let's put them in the same group to kill each other for our own entertainment"

"there's too many oGs players...let's cause some tension among their camp by putting 3 of them in the same group"

seriously GOM TV wtf are you doing?


It's random, genius.
Pew pew!
Tygaa
Profile Joined November 2010
United States40 Posts
December 16 2010 04:02 GMT
#328
it wont matter jinro and idra will both move on...
I Will OverLord Rush Your @ss !
fuzzy_panda
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
New Zealand1681 Posts
December 16 2010 04:19 GMT
#329
On December 16 2010 10:38 iGX wrote:
is this GOMtv's way of messing with the players and fans altogether? i think this is their idea of a joke.

"we know fruitdealer doesn't play ZvZ much so just for shits and giggles, let's put him with a group of zergs"

"we know that the foreigners are doing really well so let's put them in the same group to kill each other for our own entertainment"

"there's too many oGs players...let's cause some tension among their camp by putting 3 of them in the same group"

seriously GOM TV wtf are you doing?


dont forget putting marineking in a group with no zerg! but yeah its random. i think they should alter the system slightly, so its random but with 1 sorta "hero" player in each group. i think theyve done that seeing how all the legends/heroes (boxer, nada, FD, nestea) are not in the same group. but they kinda screwed it up with jinro/idra there.
Werk
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States294 Posts
December 16 2010 04:21 GMT
#330
my god almost every group has 2 of the same team players, how brutal...all these groups need it Day 9 Vs Tasteless in a group as well. Totally brutal!
Do Werk Son
DminusTerran
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1337 Posts
December 16 2010 05:57 GMT
#331
On December 16 2010 13:19 fuzzy_panda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 10:38 iGX wrote:
is this GOMtv's way of messing with the players and fans altogether? i think this is their idea of a joke.

"we know fruitdealer doesn't play ZvZ much so just for shits and giggles, let's put him with a group of zergs"

"we know that the foreigners are doing really well so let's put them in the same group to kill each other for our own entertainment"

"there's too many oGs players...let's cause some tension among their camp by putting 3 of them in the same group"

seriously GOM TV wtf are you doing?


dont forget putting marineking in a group with no zerg! but yeah its random. i think they should alter the system slightly, so its random but with 1 sorta "hero" player in each group. i think theyve done that seeing how all the legends/heroes (boxer, nada, FD, nestea) are not in the same group. but they kinda screwed it up with jinro/idra there.


The top eight seeded players are split into each group then the rest are randomized in. So they kind of did that already.
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
December 16 2010 07:45 GMT
#332
On December 16 2010 10:38 iGX wrote:
is this GOMtv's way of messing with the players and fans altogether? i think this is their idea of a joke.

"we know fruitdealer doesn't play ZvZ much so just for shits and giggles, let's put him with a group of zergs"

"we know that the foreigners are doing really well so let's put them in the same group to kill each other for our own entertainment"

"there's too many oGs players...let's cause some tension among their camp by putting 3 of them in the same group"

seriously GOM TV wtf are you doing?


stop whining. How would have done it?
VeNoM HaZ Skill
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1528 Posts
December 16 2010 18:22 GMT
#333
On December 16 2010 16:45 riverkim09 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 10:38 iGX wrote:
is this GOMtv's way of messing with the players and fans altogether? i think this is their idea of a joke.

"we know fruitdealer doesn't play ZvZ much so just for shits and giggles, let's put him with a group of zergs"

"we know that the foreigners are doing really well so let's put them in the same group to kill each other for our own entertainment"

"there's too many oGs players...let's cause some tension among their camp by putting 3 of them in the same group"

seriously GOM TV wtf are you doing?


stop whining. How would have done it?


Seriously! If someone has a weak matchup: *BAM* Conspiracy!!!
If someone has a strong matchup: *BAM* Conspiracy!!!
If someone is in a group with a teamate: *BAM* Conspiracy!!!
Foreigners make it into the GSL: *BAM* Conspiracy!!!
Tasteless gets sick: *BAM* Conspiracy!!!
Some 11 year old orphan in Bangladesh just happens to blow his nose when somebody GG's: *BAM* Conspiracy!!!

It's obvious that no matter what GOMTV does somewhere someone's feelings are going to get hurt. Boo Hoo. Please just stop complaining.
#1 MMA fan! I like you too Taeja. Still patiently waiting for the Crown Prince to become the King.
zLnoEk
Profile Joined March 2010
United States95 Posts
December 16 2010 19:24 GMT
#334
ITS OKAY GUYS IDRA AND JINRO WILL MAUL CHECK AND ENSNARE NP!NP!! ><
Typhon
Profile Joined July 2009
United States387 Posts
December 16 2010 19:33 GMT
#335
On December 16 2010 10:38 iGX wrote:
"we know that the foreigners are doing really well so let's put them in the same group to kill each other for our own entertainment"


by "really well" you mean 12th and 21st in rankings? Regardless of how well they are doing, each group has a top8 seed, and ogsEnsnare is one of the easier top8 you could put into their group. They could easily have fallen in a group with one of the Champion Zergs or MC, and then you'd have a lot more reason to whine.
mDuo13
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States307 Posts
December 16 2010 20:22 GMT
#336
Contrary to everyone else, it feels, I like these groups. They add hype and drama because they're so lopsided all over the place. Idra versus Jinro foreigner on foreigner grudge matches! NesTea versus a swarm of terrans! Zenith in the house of oGs!

Totally excited for this to happen.
AiZeNs
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5 Posts
December 16 2010 21:14 GMT
#337
lol idra beat check on the ladder a couple nights ago like 6 times in a row hahaha. That'll be a fun match
New to the game and looking for practice partners/ anyone who wants to have fun. AiZeN.451
Mindflow
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)320 Posts
December 16 2010 21:20 GMT
#338
14 T / 9 P / 9 Z ^-^
sjschmidt93
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2518 Posts
December 16 2010 21:40 GMT
#339
Group F is monstrous.
My grandpa could've proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, he's also dead. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Pandaren
Profile Joined June 2010
Norway1 Post
December 16 2010 21:50 GMT
#340
Not too happy about the number of mirrors, but I think group G might produce some very entertaining matches. Watching Idra vs. Jinro is going to be awesome, and I hope both get to the RO16
Firebat drops are the shit
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
December 16 2010 21:58 GMT
#341
Using the points system for GSL isn't very telling, since it gives such a high bias for winners. Try something like 5 pts for winners, 4 pts for finals, etc. I know someone already did one, but he didn't factor in performance over all 3 gsls and consistency.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
zhouzhou
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada138 Posts
December 16 2010 23:22 GMT
#342
Ooooooh Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide made it! YEAH!
Knee
Profile Joined July 2010
73 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-17 13:21:06
December 17 2010 06:43 GMT
#343
so when is gsl 4? :o


sorry for the newbie question. I would really like to know so I can schedule around it. Can anyone help a guy out?
doubled
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden111 Posts
December 17 2010 12:16 GMT
#344
Group looks good, although with the team overlaps it might end up with some player forfeiting a game in order for his comrade to advance. Which obviously is the better tactical decision but not nearly as exciting as a real game.
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
December 17 2010 12:33 GMT
#345
Players with good chances of advancing:

-IMmvp: Terran loves zerg
-Kyrixzenith: Not the hardest group and good matchups for him I think
-LeenockfOu: Same as above
-LegalMindZenith: Granted I dont know him but protoss loves terran

Players who will have a hard time advancing:

-IMNesTea: 3x terran = game over
-oGsNaDa: 3x protoss = game over

From group H anyone can advance really.
Knee
Profile Joined July 2010
73 Posts
December 17 2010 17:34 GMT
#346
Also, really hoping idrA makes it farther than he has in the past. He really deserves a win.
Swiki
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland5 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-18 04:54:09
December 18 2010 04:53 GMT
#347
Group H prediction: Check > Ensnare > Jinro/Idra
Ocedic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1808 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-18 10:24:39
December 18 2010 10:23 GMT
#348
On December 14 2010 20:23 shell wrote:
Can't understand why don't randomize the groups but using a method that could provide less mirrors and team kills!

there's 9 protoss, 9 zers and 14 terrans, why would there be a group with 3 protoss and another with 3 terran and 3 zerg?? that's stupido imo

Idra and Jinro in the same group also sucks.. hope they make it tho!


First people complain that the setups are rigged because they aren't random. Then they randomize and the results are as expected: clusters of same races, etc and people yet again complain. Maybe before complaining on things like random maps and matchups people should educate themselves on how random works.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
December 18 2010 18:09 GMT
#349
groups b, f and h are very stacked. im kinda torn about the draw. jinro vs idra is great to see, but its unfortunate that the chances are high that only one of them makes it out of that group.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Deserex
Profile Joined November 2010
United States317 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-18 22:10:07
December 18 2010 22:08 GMT
#350
My Predictions:

Group A - 1st. IMNesTea; 2nd. MakaPrime.WE
Group B - 1st. FruitDealer; 2nd. IMmvp
Group C - 1st. SlayerS_`BoxeR`; 2nd. oGsHyperdub
Group D - 1st. TSL.Rain; 2nd. choyafOu
Group E - 1st. St.RainBOw; 2nd. LeenockfOu
Group F - 1st. oGsMC; 2nd. oGsInca
Group G - 1st. MarineKingPrime.WE; 2nd. TSL.Clide
Group H - 1st. EGIdra; 2nd. oGsEnsnare (Sorry Jinro)
"If you can chill, chill." - Liquid'Nony
TheGiftedApe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1243 Posts
December 19 2010 00:20 GMT
#351
blah my 2 favorite protoss in the same group :< inca and oGsMC fighting!
xO-Gaming.com || [xO]TheGiftedApe.364 || xO-Gaming Manager.
Steel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Japan2283 Posts
December 19 2010 15:43 GMT
#352
I'm sad that Jinro and Idra are in the same group. Random definitely failed GSL4 but oh well, will surely be some interesting matches.

I sure will enjoy the ZvZs, and I'm sure protosses will enjoy the PvPs. Now that there actually ARE PvP matches, people will be forced to practice them and be creative...as in finding new ways to get collosi faster =D
Try another route paperboy.
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
December 19 2010 22:29 GMT
#353
On December 20 2010 00:43 Steel wrote:
I'm sad that Jinro and Idra are in the same group. Random definitely failed GSL4 but oh well, will surely be some interesting matches.

I sure will enjoy the ZvZs, and I'm sure protosses will enjoy the PvPs. Now that there actually ARE PvP matches, people will be forced to practice them and be creative...as in finding new ways to get collosi faster =D


Oh? just because two foreigners are in the same group and probably only one will make it out makes GSL 4 fail? Please don't watch it then.
GrapeD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada679 Posts
December 20 2010 05:06 GMT
#354
Sucks for OGS as they dont have a group without two or more ogs members/liquid members
Some people hurt people. I defenestrate those people.
beat farm
Profile Joined October 2010
United States478 Posts
December 20 2010 06:48 GMT
#355
On December 19 2010 07:08 Deserex wrote:
My Predictions:

Group A - 1st. IMNesTea; 2nd. MakaPrime.WE
Group B - 1st. FruitDealer; 2nd. IMmvp
Group C - 1st. SlayerS_`BoxeR`; 2nd. oGsHyperdub
Group D - 1st. TSL.Rain; 2nd. choyafOu
Group E - 1st. St.RainBOw; 2nd. LeenockfOu
Group F - 1st. oGsMC; 2nd. oGsInca
Group G - 1st. MarineKingPrime.WE; 2nd. TSL.Clide
Group H - 1st. EGIdra; 2nd. oGsEnsnare (Sorry Jinro)


im pretty sure jinro will undisputedly win group H. i think he is only going to get better.
riverkim09
Profile Joined November 2010
United States291 Posts
December 20 2010 08:25 GMT
#356
On December 20 2010 15:48 beat farm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2010 07:08 Deserex wrote:
My Predictions:

Group A - 1st. IMNesTea; 2nd. MakaPrime.WE
Group B - 1st. FruitDealer; 2nd. IMmvp
Group C - 1st. SlayerS_`BoxeR`; 2nd. oGsHyperdub
Group D - 1st. TSL.Rain; 2nd. choyafOu
Group E - 1st. St.RainBOw; 2nd. LeenockfOu
Group F - 1st. oGsMC; 2nd. oGsInca
Group G - 1st. MarineKingPrime.WE; 2nd. TSL.Clide
Group H - 1st. EGIdra; 2nd. oGsEnsnare (Sorry Jinro)


im pretty sure jinro will undisputedly win group H. i think he is only going to get better.


I don't know about that. oGsEnsnare has achieved just as much as jinro. Also, CheckPrime is a pretty good early game player, something Jinro has shown to be his weakness.
StarCraft2 arena
Profile Joined December 2010
United States19 Posts
December 20 2010 18:22 GMT
#357
I guess group F is the tough one, omg this is awesome !"
"StarCraft2 is life, learn it from http://starcraft2arena.blogspot.com/"
Doughboy
Profile Joined April 2010
United States721 Posts
December 21 2010 07:28 GMT
#358
Hopefully ITR can take group E, and ew @ jinro + idra in same group.
"Don't be distracted by the what if's, should'ves, and if onlys. The one thing you choose yourself - THAT is the truth of your universe." Fav T: Sea, Leta, Really Fav P: Free, Snow Fav Z: ZerO, GGplay, Jaedong, Neo.G_Soulkey
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
December 21 2010 08:46 GMT
#359
--- Nuked ---
TheSandMans
Profile Joined November 2010
Philippines3 Posts
December 21 2010 11:32 GMT
#360
Three oGs in the same group? dayuuuuuum. Might cause some strife between them
My wife for hire
B.I.G.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3251 Posts
December 21 2010 14:17 GMT
#361
why bother with the groups? mc is just gonna take the win home again anyway
ltortoise
Profile Joined August 2010
633 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-21 20:59:16
December 21 2010 20:56 GMT
#362
Is it just me or does GOM literally hate both oGs and foreigners?

There are nine members of oGs/liquid distributed among just four of the eight groups.

Two foreigners in the whole tournament distributed among...one group...

Edit: it might be time to get out the old college stats texts and do some tests to see just how "random" this is...
leetchaos
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States395 Posts
December 22 2010 00:50 GMT
#363
On December 22 2010 05:56 ltortoise wrote:
Is it just me or does GOM literally hate both oGs and foreigners?

There are nine members of oGs/liquid distributed among just four of the eight groups.

Two foreigners in the whole tournament distributed among...one group...

Edit: it might be time to get out the old college stats texts and do some tests to see just how "random" this is...


You might whip out ye olde dictionary and look up the definition of "random".
Exxo
Profile Joined November 2010
United States79 Posts
December 22 2010 02:20 GMT
#364
They divided out the top 8 from GSL 3. That's the only requirement they have for the grouping. Why not put the foreigners in the same group? If you put 3 oGs in the same group, they have a definite 1 member moving on. The best players will move out of group stage, no matter what group they're in.
Hi.
jeddus
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States832 Posts
December 22 2010 04:15 GMT
#365
Every group looks very strong, but I guess that's why they are all Code S.
I'm very excited to see how this goes.
sex appeal
Aberu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States968 Posts
December 22 2010 08:47 GMT
#366
There is a RO2 or RO4 finalist in every single group, so that leads me to a conclusion that it is seeded somehow.
srsly
schI2ler
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
129 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 09:05:50
December 22 2010 09:04 GMT
#367
I prefer a random selection, where you sometimes get unlucky (group F, group H) to a selection where some are picked to be lucky.

What I think could be changed, is that players are chosen from a "race-pool", so that we get to see similar match-ups in every group . (no Z in group F&G, no P in group A&B&H)
"oh i'm so smatr"
WR4TH
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States72 Posts
December 22 2010 18:02 GMT
#368
I like seeing the "unlucky" draws which force players to really come up with special builds and new strategies innovative strategies to to deal with potentially unfavored race match ups. they are the best of the best so lets see them be the heroes we expect them to be and walk through the three opponents of the same race.

I do hope that Jinro and Idra come out of their group. We've got to keep the the white guy credibility up in the SC world.
gREIFOCs
Profile Joined April 2010
Argentina208 Posts
December 23 2010 21:56 GMT
#369
On December 23 2010 03:02 WR4TH wrote:
I do hope that Jinro and Idra come out of their group. We've got to keep the the white guy credibility up in the SC world.


What has race to do with ANYTHING?
Don't work hard. You die at the end anyway, dummy.
beat farm
Profile Joined October 2010
United States478 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 22:16:24
December 23 2010 22:14 GMT
#370
my opinion

Group A
nestea should advance
second place is a toss up

Group B
Fruitdealer and mvp are the 2 best in that group, but fruitdealer could throw it away and mvp is not way better then the rest for him to be a sure thing. I think dealer and mvp will advance but this group could be a toss up.

Group C
boxer should win it and id guess hongun will get second but wouldent be suprised if someone else got it.

Group D
I have no clue. Not sure if rain is good or just lucky.
if i had to guess something il go with rain and krix

Group E
toss up between genius leenlock and rainbow. any of them could win or any of them could be 3rd.

Group F
oGsMc will advance or the world will stop spinning.
nada is probably the second strongest player here but i don't know much about the other 2. nada will almost certantly loose to oGsimmunetoterranMc. so it will be harder for him to advance.

Group G
marineking advances(second most sure behind Mc)
the rest i just don't know anything about. i heard clide was sapose to be good but all he does is get eliminated in the first round after getting hyped up. so second place is a big toss up

Group H
Jinro advances
the other 3 are a toss up.
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
December 23 2010 23:19 GMT
#371
On December 14 2010 20:24 Maawaak wrote:
Jinro and IdrA in the same group


my sentiments exactly
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
mika0023
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany11 Posts
December 24 2010 17:50 GMT
#372
Jinro and Irda will do it =) atleast i hope its whats gonna happen
Noise
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia47 Posts
December 25 2010 01:29 GMT
#373
I won't be surprised if Idra and Jinro both move on.
Mainland
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada551 Posts
December 25 2010 17:04 GMT
#374
On December 22 2010 05:56 ltortoise wrote:
Is it just me or does GOM literally hate both oGs and foreigners?

There are nine members of oGs/liquid distributed among just four of the eight groups.

Two foreigners in the whole tournament distributed among...one group...

Edit: it might be time to get out the old college stats texts and do some tests to see just how "random" this is...


It's a stratified random draw. 1 slot is for 1-8, 1 slot is for 9-16 and so on.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
December 25 2010 17:58 GMT
#375
Why are all the Protoss in one group.

X_X
eatpraylove
Profile Joined October 2010
United States53 Posts
December 27 2010 05:37 GMT
#376
On December 17 2010 15:43 Knee wrote:
so when is gsl 4? :o


sorry for the newbie question. I would really like to know so I can schedule around it. Can anyone help a guy out?


Schedules here:

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/
ExoD
Profile Joined December 2010
United States37 Posts
January 04 2011 15:56 GMT
#377
They probably want non Koreans to eliminate each other. Korea sucks at everything but starcraft, so they probably(although would never be admitted) want non Koreans to not win. Also, the Koreans who made predictions said idra and jinro will likely be eliminated by checkprime and ogsensnare(people no1 cares about) Lmfao. Total discrimination. I hope jinro and idra wreck those brackets and that Ret gets into code S.
Jacob666
Profile Joined January 2011
United States285 Posts
January 04 2011 18:57 GMT
#378
The entire group h is a toss up either jinro or idra should advance hopefully both
Krazzymisa
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2 Posts
January 17 2011 04:21 GMT
#379
Yess! Jinro and IdrA!
Zerg Swarm!
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