EPTMBCGame v. Blizzard - First Court Session - Page 4
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zak
Korea (South)1009 Posts
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On December 11 2010 18:48 Devolved wrote: IMO, it's a pretty clear-cut case for Blizzard. It seems KeSPA & Co.'s main argument are that they are the ones that made E-sports what it is today and they are the ones that spent the money and sweat to elevate E-sports to the high level that it is at today. This seems to be a true statement, but it doesn't entitle them to earn a profit based on another company's copyrighted material without due compensation. It's like someone building a huge theater and showing movies there without paying royalties to the film companies and their reasoning for not paying royalties is because they're the ones that built the theater. Just because you built the screen doesn't give you the right to earn profit on someone else's copyrighted material. Since when didn't they pay royalties to blizzard you are implying and expressively stating every non factual lies and even using analogies to support your facts ? Bring some facts and than we talk . | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On December 11 2010 02:17 Milkis wrote: Except they've already said that they wont do an injunction, so it'd be going back on their word. Also it'd show weakness on Blizzard's part seeing that really, "why wouldn't blizzard want a court battle?" MBC Game really did make the right move -- Blizzard assumes that they hold 100% of the property rights, but MBC Game disagrees. The court is the only entity that can decide who owns what clearly. ONLY after that will they be able to negotiate properly. There's a reason this entire thing took 3 frigging years -- i twas a battle over property rights and not much else. If blizzard does indeed own the property rights, then MBC Game cannot lose, but can only gain, from this trial -- since Blizzard acts like they own it anyway, and if the court rules that way, so be it, but there's a chance court can make some interesting decision (the interesting decision, imo, that would be the right one) This is exactly why MBC, OGN, and Kespa can't come to a agreement with Blizzard. Agreeing to Blizzard's terms, no matter how financially insignificant it is, means that MBC, OGN, and Kespa is acknowledging that Blizzard owns 100% of the ip rights to the broadcast of their games. If you set a precedent that game companies own 100% of broadcast rights, you're just going to cause a lot of trouble down the road. | ||
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enzym
Germany1034 Posts
I can't wait for the clarification of this problem. If professional broodwar needs to be harmed by this process in the short term in order to resolve it then I am not against it. Sometimes things have to come down before you can build something better, and I'm confident (at least I hope so) that this will be the case. | ||
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DayJP
Brazil477 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50586 Posts
On December 11 2010 23:56 DayJP wrote: is there like a TL pool to see "who's side" the community is? Absolutely against the idea....lets not try to split the community. | ||
mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
On December 12 2010 00:49 BLinD-RawR wrote: Absolutely against the idea....lets not try to split the community. It's funny that people actually want this. As if an unclear issue would be somehow resolved once a bunch of badly informed people start voting it. Some people also like flamewars, I guess. | ||
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DayJP
Brazil477 Posts
Maybe expecting mature responses to a poll is a bit too much to ask And if a poll of opinions would split the community, maybe TL isn't as awesome as it is portrayed | ||
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mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
On December 12 2010 01:22 DayJP wrote: I think the facts are pretty straight forward, rending the "badly informed" argument invalid Maybe expecting mature responses to a poll is a bit too much to ask And if a poll of opinions would split the community, maybe TL isn't as awesome as it is portrayed There is no legal precedent, thus the facts people want to include are largely dependent on what they want to see. Some see negligence, others see theft, some see derivative works, others see IP rights being abused. Even the results are highly skewed, some focus on the possibility of a lot of jobs being lost (including those of my most beloved progamers), others see a huge potential for E-sports united under Blizzard. And yes, that split of opinions has led to flamewars earlier, and will in the future, since the community is actually pretty separated already. (Not wanting to downplay those who feel like they belong to both communities, it's just rarely brought up any more.) | ||
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gyth
657 Posts
Since when didn't they pay royalties to blizzard you are implying and expressively stating every non factual lies and even using analogies to support your facts? MBC: At the very beginning, we got the rights for broadcasting Starcraft from Blizzard's Korean partner, Hanbitsoft, and Hanbitsoft is a member of KeSPA. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162136 | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On December 12 2010 01:22 DayJP wrote: I think the facts are pretty straight forward, rending the "badly informed" argument invalid Maybe expecting mature responses to a poll is a bit too much to ask And if a poll of opinions would split the community, maybe TL isn't as awesome as it is portrayed If you think this way, you will be very surprised that many people dont take the time to read information provide in the forums. And these same people just jump straight into a discussion thinking they know everything, giving opinions left n right. Right now, for most of the information provided to us, i do not know which ones are fact, which ones are pure propaganda, and i would think it is the same for most everyone here.. Chances are the ones who claim that "facts are pretty straight forward" are the misinformed ones themselves (people who do not know hardly ever know that they do not know). I would like to agree with Mustaju on this though, both sides see things differently. The very same event may mean different things depending on our (already set) mindset and whoever that we support. Heres hoping that these will end well. Rooting for BW  | ||
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0c3LoT
Canada162 Posts
On December 11 2010 18:48 Devolved wrote: IMO, it's a pretty clear-cut case for Blizzard. It seems KeSPA & Co.'s main argument are that they are the ones that made E-sports what it is today and they are the ones that spent the money and sweat to elevate E-sports to the high level that it is at today. This seems to be a true statement, but it doesn't entitle them to earn a profit based on another company's copyrighted material without due compensation. It's like someone building a huge theater and showing movies there without paying royalties to the film companies and their reasoning for not paying royalties is because they're the ones that built the theater. Just because you built the screen doesn't give you the right to earn profit on someone else's copyrighted material. That's a really bad analogy for what's happening here. | ||
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JayDee_
548 Posts
Goes to show that the Kespa associates never had any intention to truly negotiate withe Blizzard. | ||
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mustaju
Estonia4504 Posts
On December 12 2010 04:52 JayDee_ wrote: Goes to show that the Kespa associates never had any intention to truly negotiate withe Blizzard. It isn't negotiating when one side shouts demands and expects the other to just roll over and hand them everything they've got. They gave up some of their stances, and that's negotiating, IMO. Where has Blizzard made concessions? | ||
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
On December 12 2010 04:52 JayDee_ wrote: "we wish take this opportunity to know just how far the IP rights reach in regards to broadcasting content creation through a game." Goes to show that the Kespa associates never had any intention to truly negotiate withe Blizzard. You do understand how far Blizzard wants to go on their definition of "IP rights" is a big reason why negotiations have failed? | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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GhoSt[shield]
Canada2131 Posts
On December 11 2010 13:57 Zona wrote: Blizzard did not ask for Kespa to be audited privately by an independent auditor...Blizzard wants to look at Kespa's books (an entirely different demand), which is not "done all the time". It's almost never done - seeing another company's books basically lets you understand their entire business, even when companies partner on projects this doesn't happen. Fair enough. I see your point and having another company audit your own operational objectives would be unusual. Thanks for the clarification. I can admit when I am wrong + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2010 06:18 GhoSt[shield] wrote: It seems everyone is forgetting that KeSPA forced MBC and OGN to pay licensing fees for BW, when they did not set up the leagues or organize them themselves. KeSPA represents sponsors for teams, they represent players in the sense that players need to join KeSPA to get a progaming card through courage and be recruited onto a team. You do know that in most professional sports (like the NBA, MLB, etc), the leagues are jointly owned by the team owners? Not the broadcasters. Kespa represents the team owners...so it's not unusual that they "own" Proleague. In leagues such as that team owners also get a share of the broadcasting rights sold by the league's executive organization. I suppose what I am trying to get at is that the formation and the creation of the Proleague itself was by the broadcasting companies. The sponsors and their ability to act through KeSPA is not unwarranted as they control the players, but simply taking over an established league through no legal justification is also unwarranted. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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Levythenobz
Canada42 Posts
In leagues such as that team owners also get a share of the broadcasting rights sold by the league's executive organization. I suppose what I am trying to get at is that the formation and the creation of the Proleague itself was by the broadcasting companies. The sponsors and their ability to act through KeSPA is not unwarranted as they control the players, but simply taking over an established league through no legal justification is also unwarranted. MBC and OGN can start a league if they want, they just won't get KeSPA's players. That's why they are paying *broadcasting fees*. KeSPA should've just named it fees for player performance of some other name and blizzard probably would've never stepped in. It's logical for KeSPA to ask for money from those that *dirrectly* profit from the broadcast to pay the player's salairies and lodging. | ||
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