This upcoming 17th, there will be an official establishment of StarCraft 2 association as well as an orientation at GomTV studio. It will involve 7 teams that are currently participating in GSL, plus their coaches and players.
The association will include teams StarTale, Prime, oGs, TSL, fOu, ZeNEX, and IM, their coaches and their players. In addition, there will be StarCraft 2 game team association, players association, and an advisory board.
The first president will be Won Jeong Uk, currently the coach of StarTale, and the advisory committee will be managed by GomTV e-sports business management and an editor from a famous e-sports specialized webzine.
Also, the commissioners will be TSL's Lee Un Jae coach, Prime's Park Wae Sik coach, oGs Park Sang Ik coach, fOu Kim Tae Yeup manager, ZeNEX Yun Hee Won coach, and IM Kang Dong Hoon coach. As for the commissioner for the players association, one will be selected through gamers voting in sometime in January 2011.
StarCraft 2 association aims to be an official association approved by Blizzard, and it will deal with the following: Protection of rights for the gamers and teams, operations of StarCraft 2 team's business-league sponsor, arbitrator for when there is an issue between a gamer and a team, and furthering the popularity of StarCraft 2 leagues that are linked with Blizzard-GomTV (editor's note: this most likely means, leagues that opened legit with permission from them).
Also, the association does not aim for profit, and will focus on the right path for the association by listening to what fans want. As a first thing to do, they will put forth plans to support teams with PCs and starting online team league.
Won Jong Uk, the first president of the association, said, "While the name is quite grand, but it is just a group made with a purpose of uniting the voice in order to do the things we need to do."
He continued, "Unlike existing e-sports association, we would like people to think this is a different kind of a group from them, and that our no.1 issue is to protect the rights of the gamers. We must gather all our strength to help with our current difficult situation for StarCraft 2 progamer teams. To that end, we wish for the fans to give us support."
In a meanwhile, in the StarCraft 2 gamer orientation, it will include the following topics and then some: Gamer's basic behavior education, interview method education from Fomos' reporter, Kim Kyung Hyun, and 2011 league operation plans from GomTV e-sports business unit, Chae Jeong Won.
Awesome! Thanks for translating. This looks good and I hope they do things right. It's a lot more comfortable knowing that it's not controlled by Sponsors though. I think this is a good thing. Starcraft 2 as an e-Sport in Korea is progressing nicely.
In a meanwhile, in the StarCraft 2 gamer orientation, it will include the following topics and then some: Gamer's basic behavior education, interview method education from Fomos' reporter, Kim Kyung Hyun, and 2011 league operation plans from GomTV e-sports business unit, Chae Jeong Won.
Wow, this sounds like Blizzard making fun of the KeSPA. Let's just hope it leads to a better organization than KeSPA. (none of this stupid you-can't-participate-elsewhere policies please)
Remember, Blizzard hates Kespa for different reasons people here do. Blizzard would hate kespa just as much if they were total saints. Interests just collide.
Blizzard will try to stop this before they get too powerful. Can't have something not under their control and this is exactly that.
It's not likely this group will replace KeSPA. While KeSPA gives pretty much zero support for games not named "StarCraft: Brood War", they still do manage leagues for other games.
This group's sole purpose is managing StarCraft 2.
Of course, who knows how it'll turn out in the future.
This sounds like great news! Once again the official association for SC(2) is in the control of the managers/coaches of the teams. They'll do what's right for the game, I have high expectations for them!
On November 16 2010 17:40 PackofHighly wrote: I don't know about calling it "KeSPA 2". On the surface, this sounds very different.
Huh? It sounds identical -- except for one key thing -- that it's the coaches/players directly involved, rather than corporations like KeSPA. It's off too a good start but it's really KeSPA 2.0
Here's to no f'ed up rules and dictating what players can and can't do. Hopefully this actually has a chance at doing good, or even great, seeing how it's actually players and coaches etc who are in charge.
Funny thing though and probably just a product of the language barrier and nothing else, but some serious brainwashing wibes going off reading(for those of you who have seen Salt, Hitman etc) :D
In a meanwhile, in the StarCraft 2 gamer orientation, it will include the following topics and then some: Gamer's basic behavior education, interview method education from Fomos' reporter, Kim Kyung Hyun, and 2011 league operation plans from GomTV e-sports business unit, Chae Jeong Won.
Great news for Starcraft 2. This will most definitely lead to a Starcraft 2 ProLeague, which i'm happy about. I hope that too many Corporations don't get a hold of this, and it stays with the Coaches and Players.
On November 16 2010 17:40 PackofHighly wrote: I don't know about calling it "KeSPA 2". On the surface, this sounds very different.
Huh? It sounds identical -- except for one key thing -- that it's the coaches/players directly involved, rather than corporations like KeSPA. It's off too a good start but it's really KeSPA 2.0
eh having coaches rather than corporation changes the entire motive of the organization, no?
Also, those teams would kill for a sponsor that will buy from them the whole team like a KT or SKT. And then you have the exact same thing were the teams don't send their head coach but their owner/sponsor.
This is good, but Blizzard won't allow it. And when SC2 esports get successful and get big sponsors, it will be an exact copy. Not to mention they may start to cooperate or fuse with Kespa one day because they are identical organizations but just for different games. It will give them synergy.
As for rules, I rather have a kespa that is forced to DQ some players to maintain the integrity of the game rather than MLG where you can basically get away with cheating.
I sincerely hope that its just the translation that makes it sound like something that you might have read as hitler came to power or a pamphlet explaining marxist goals.
This makes me nervous... All I can do is hope for the best.
Edit:
On November 16 2010 17:58 ZlaSHeR wrote: Would have been cool to see TL associated, and possibly an expansion to add foreigners in order to grow progaming even more
Yeah, this would be way awesome. Let's hope that will happen in the future.
On November 16 2010 17:58 ZlaSHeR wrote: Would have been cool to see TL associated, and possibly an expansion to add foreigners in order to grow progaming even more
I don't think some of the posters actually bothered to read the translated article. This KeSPA 2.0 talk is highly inaccurate. Consider the differences between the 2 entities before jumping to such conclusions.
Just having read through the translation, it sounds like an attempt to organize between the coaches and gamers to promote an overall agenda for their benefit. Doing this in a Blizzard approved way is the right choice, as I cannot see an SC2 organization like this working otherwise.
Yeah I was also hoping TL was going to be included ... maybe you guys need a Korean representative at the TL/oGs house to represent TL as the eight team? *hint hint* Kennigit you know you want me to go to Korea ^^
except for one key thing -- that it's the coaches/players directly involved, rather than corporations like KeSPA
That is a gigantic difference though.
But this is how KeSPA, or KPGA started as well. But then the scene grew, and sponsors come to own the pro gaming teams themselves, naturally leading to sponsors representing on the KeSPA board.
On November 16 2010 18:22 kOre wrote: Yeah I was also hoping TL was going to be included ... maybe you guys need a Korean representative at the TL/oGs house to represent TL as the eight team? *hint hint* Kennigit you know you want me to go to Korea ^^
On November 16 2010 18:29 tyr wrote: Didn't Gretech or Blizzard (I don't remember which) say that they didn't want any of this team-oriented stuff ? I'm confused ...
I don't remember the full details, maybe it was kind of vague. My best guess is that they don't want E-Sports, well Starcraft 2 in particular, to be dominated by teams.
It's not strange to see people so confused. Kespa//KPGA happened because it was in the teams interest. The interests of the teams collide with the interests of Blizzard. That's why the Kespa/Blizzard war happened. Remember, Blizzard wants 50/50/0 in the order Blizzard, OGN/MBC and then Kespa/teams. Kespa wants 33/33/33.
This association will be better off with a 33/33/33 as well. They say they want approval of Blizzard. Sure, Kespa would want that too. But the thing is, they formed without asking Blizzard for permission and Blizzard indeed opposes the whole team-thing because teams can unite in an association and stand up for their own interests.
Wondering how fans of both sc1 and 2 feel about all this jazz....which to watch...which to watch...having 2 major esports makes things very very interesting........
On November 16 2010 18:40 FliedLice wrote: "oGs Park Sang Ik coach"
is that Spunky?
edit: and no oGs-Liquid team?
It's oGsTheWinD, and I think oGs will probably represent Liquid too given they're partners and Nazgul isn't in Korea. Though I guess it wouldn't hurt to see if Nazgul wants to get in on it. Dunno if he even knows about this yet.
On November 16 2010 17:58 ZlaSHeR wrote: Would have been cool to see TL associated, and possibly an expansion to add foreigners in order to grow progaming even more
Liquid`Nazgul for president!!!!
that would be sooooo awesome ^____^
Yes, and EG must get their korean plans together before they miss the train - imagine two foreign teams in the heart of starcraft2-land.
The main difference from KeSPA as I'm reading it is that you are not required to a part of or contracted with Korea StarCraft 2 Association to be a part of a team or enter tournaments.
This means they are not really in control of anything and wont ever be KeSPA 2.
I don't see any of this to be bad. It's meant to help players and teams, and if they dont, well the players and teams can just leave.
I wish the players would form their own association/union so they can actually make demands. KeSPAs biggest flaw it seems to me is that it takes the interest of the sponsors over the interest of the players. which is okay... if there is a counter part.
Well, KeSPA is essentially a team owners' association, and on paper so far I can't really tell how this new organization will be different. That they plan to have a players' association as well is good news, but I'm always skeptical about how much real power a PA has in any pro-sport
On November 16 2010 20:19 Waxangel wrote: Well, KeSPA is essentially a team owners' association, and on paper so far I can't really tell how this new organization will be different. That they plan to have a players' association as well is good news, but I'm always skeptical about how much real power a PA has in any pro-sport
Yea this will be rather interesting. I must say the interview with the coach from ST did give me some faith that this will be different but only time will tell.
On November 16 2010 17:30 Gonodactylus wrote: Ooh wow Blizzard is going to love that.
Remember, Blizzard hates Kespa for different reasons people here do. Blizzard would hate kespa just as much if they were total saints. Interests just collide.
Blizzard will try to stop this before they get too powerful. Can't have something not under their control and this is exactly that.
Did you even read the OP? They are aiming to be blizzard approved and GOM is an ally of blizzard already.
This is huge news for StarCraft. This could be a very good thing but I hope that it doesn't take away from the openness of the scene currently. If a StarCraft 2 proleague were limited to the same small number of Korean teams each year instead of having open qualifiers like GSL so that any team that is good enough could compete (EG, TLAF, etc...) it would be a real shame.
this would be good to push stuff like fixing out map imbalances as well as LAN
I do hope that the Koreans are not exclusive on this because SC2 can be something that is huge all over the world as compared to only in Korea and such it is fair that someone from TL is in the association.
Even BoxeR wish to play overseas because he recognizes the potential.
It really was only a matter of time. I really hope they do this right. I haven't been able to think of KeSPA in a positive light since they shut down the BW GSL.
On November 16 2010 22:00 ComusLoM wrote: It really was only a matter of time. I really hope they do this right. I haven't been able to think of KeSPA in a positive light since they shut down the BW GSL.
Well considering GomTV will be advising them and they stand for a global scene with foreigners involved you can bet that they'll support foreign teams/players and won't shut a similar thing like the gom classics.
He continued, "Unlike existing e-sports association, we would like people to think this is a different kind of a group from them, and that our no.1 issue is to protect the rights of the gamers. We must gather all our strength to help with our current difficult situation for StarCraft 2 progamer teams. To that end, we wish for the fans to give us support."
lol
other than that, this is just KeSPA 2.0 (approved by Blizzard™)
I don't understand how someone can say this will basically be a KeSPA 2.0. There are some fundamental differences between BW and SC2 - first of all Blizzard's complete control of the game and secondly Gretech's stance on the progamer license completely stops this association to have anywhere near the same power as KeSPA does. And that's a darn good thing.
This can only be a good thing for SC2. It sounds more like a "player union" than Kespa for me... but if it ever becomes like Kespa, I hope they'll be less stubborn and do a better job.
As for rules, I rather have a kespa that is forced to DQ some players to maintain the integrity of the game rather than MLG where you can basically get away with cheating.
Damn right. God, I hate those damn cheaters who type gg instead of GG, we really need to crack down on those guys, otherwise the integrity of the game might be compromised.
Why would major sponsors want to get involved with teams involved in this organization when it's obvious Blizzard will be wanting a cut of everything? In this system who is going to pat the player salaries, the transport, the food? There's good reasons to not like KeSPA but its set up in the correct way for this to all operate smoothly.
Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
Re: Novac - On the flipside, I think it's great to have their ongoing support as it significantly ensures the quality and life cycle of the game. I don't see any issue with it.
On November 16 2010 17:30 Gonodactylus wrote: Ooh wow Blizzard is going to love that.
Remember, Blizzard hates Kespa for different reasons people here do. Blizzard would hate kespa just as much if they were total saints. Interests just collide.
Blizzard will try to stop this before they get too powerful. Can't have something not under their control and this is exactly that.
Did you even read the thread? They aim to be participating and playing under Blizzard approval and support....
On November 16 2010 23:41 Novac wrote: Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
How is that any different from the power KESPA has? If a KESPA BW player wants to switch to SC2, they lose their license for 3 years and might even have their records "accidentally deleted."
If you think Blizzard is just going to cut off access to SC2 when a new game they want to play comes out, then that is just ridiculous. Has Blizzard shut off BNet for SC:BW yet? For WC3? Did they kill D2 classic when LoD came out?
Anyway, this all depends on how much power the players association is given. If it is something akin to the NBA, NFL, etc., then I think it might be very good for the players.
If it is just a figurehead position with no power, then it might be very bad for the players.
Depending on how this goes, having a Players Association that isn't under control of the people who pay the players might go a long way.
In most North American sports, NFL, NHL, NBA, and MLB the players association has a lot of power in protecting the rights of its players. Maybe it will get to the point where the leagues need to have a CBA in order to have the players from the association participate which would make a Pro League very awesome in knowing that the players are playing under contracts that are fair(hopefully).
Keep it to the coaches and players and it should keep its integrity.
On November 16 2010 17:26 Whiladan wrote: Should be interesting to see how this plays out.
So is this...GeSPA?
You know what GeSPA means right? xD
ROFLMAO!!!
If they name themselves GeSpa, that would be the equivalent of sticking the middle finger at Kespa. I wish they would do it just for the sake of hilarity.
On November 16 2010 23:41 Novac wrote: Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
How is that any different from the power KESPA has? If a KESPA BW player wants to switch to SC2, they lose their license for 3 years and might even have their records "accidentally deleted."
If you think Blizzard is just going to cut off access to SC2 when a new game they want to play comes out, then that is just ridiculous. Has Blizzard shut off BNet for SC:BW yet? For WC3? Did they kill D2 classic when LoD came out?
Anyway, this all depends on how much power the players association is given. If it is something akin to the NBA, NFL, etc., then I think it might be very good for the players.
If it is just a figurehead position with no power, then it might be very bad for the players.
Aside from keeping b.net running, Blizzard pretty much abandoned bw/wc3 loooooooooong time ago, which is hilarious because their main argument over bw was that they want to protect the rights of the game and keep supporting it.
On November 16 2010 23:41 Novac wrote: Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
How is that any different from the power KESPA has? If a KESPA BW player wants to switch to SC2, they lose their license for 3 years and might even have their records "accidentally deleted."
If you think Blizzard is just going to cut off access to SC2 when a new game they want to play comes out, then that is just ridiculous. Has Blizzard shut off BNet for SC:BW yet? For WC3? Did they kill D2 classic when LoD came out?
Anyway, this all depends on how much power the players association is given. If it is something akin to the NBA, NFL, etc., then I think it might be very good for the players.
If it is just a figurehead position with no power, then it might be very bad for the players.
I didn't say anything about KeSPA. All I'm saying is that the eSports scene should be controlled by an organization whose interests are best served by keeping the eSports scene alive rather than selling more of a new game.
As an example, lets look at the SC:BW - SC2 controversy. A lot of people have stated that Blizzard could be trying to shut down the SC:BW eSport in Korea, because they are not making any money off it, since people already have bought the game. Whether this statement is true or not, is largely irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that IF they wanted to put an end to SC:BW broadcasting, they could, regardless of how well established of an eSport it is. Again, this is not about Blizzards plans with their games and eSports as I'm sure they want to please the fans of their games. This is about the fact that they are not restricted from denying broadcasting of their games. And if what is happening right now is setting a precedent for other games, then other game manufacturers will have the same option.
As for shutting down BNet for SC:BW. No they have not done so and again I don't believe they will. And in my opinion very little would be gained by doing so as people who are still playing SC:BW have little interest in playing SC2 or they would have done so already. However, making sure that SC2 is what is being shown on television has a much bigger impact and serves to make people want to play SC2 rather than denying the opportunity to play SC:BW.
I would prefer if Blizzard wasn't involved since their interest conflicts with the interest of eSports organizations such as this, but it seems that they're adamant about being in control of everything...
does Kespa have a players association? From what i've read they don't, else players wouldn't ever have gotten in the position to be banned from competing in other games.
This new KoSCa will have a players assoication too, with representatives elected by the players. Thats just like what they have in soccer, rugby etc to support the players and to help them deal with any disputes. That is a huge difference with Kespa.
It sounds nice, if they give a lot to the players and teams in profit terms, instead of GOMTV & Blizzard as companys. Who have to win a lot from this are the players, and then the companys, if it doesnt come in that way, it will be like kespa one more time.
On November 17 2010 00:56 Sprouter wrote: blizzard is a brand now. they aren't that awesome upcoming company they were 15 years ago
Uh, they stopped being an 'upcoming' company after WC2 was released.
What's up with all the Blizzard bashing anyway? Have they cut off support for BW? WC3? What exactly is wrong with someone getting permission from them to make money from airing a game they worked on?
Blaming Activision is just fallacious, Blizzard was exactly the same before and after the merger.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
That really doesn't make any sense.
You argue that Blizzard will destroy Esports when the one thing they want is more people to play their games, which is how it was with Brood War and it's how it is with SC2. Just because they ask for more control over the game they actually worked on is not an instant correlation to "Herp, they want to destroy E-sports guys!"
Hopefully, this will end up being a Proleague of some sort. Proleague is my favorite league in BW . It's the league that gives a certain stability to the scene as players who are eliminated early in the starleagues still get a chance to play and either rack up experience or play themselves out of a slump.
Well, now that I've had some sleep I've come back to reflect upon this article in detail.
So far the setup seems to be like this:
** President: Won Jeong Uk (Coach of STARTALE & long time employee in the e-Sports industry) Advisory Commitee: GomTV e-Sports Business Management and an editor from a famous e-Sports specialized webzine. StarCraft 2 Game Team Association: Coaches of the current teams. Players Association: Person voted in by the players themselves.
**Note: There is no secret Blizzard guy on top sitting in a demonic chair ruling everything.
I think it's cool that the top guy to make decisions is someone who's been involved with esports since 2003. Especially considering his thoughts on how progamers should play. (No forced practice. See: thread)
As for the Advisory Committee, I assume the GomTV business management side will advise on business stuff like venues, broadcasting and helping with sponsors. An editor from the famous e-sports specialized webzine (fomos, playxp?) would probably be in charge of conveying what the fans want and how they feel about things, hopefully remaining impartial.
The Team Association will probably deal with getting personal Team Sponsors, equipment and setting up a Team Proleague, since it involves all the coaches. I'd love it if Team Liquid could get representation in here whether its from an oGs ally or TL itself. I'd love for this to remain at the Coach level and never include sponsor representatives.
As for the Players Association, I really like that it will be the players themselves that vote for a representative. I'm assuming it'll be someone important like BoxeR (in fact, BoxeR is a perfect choice) that they all trust to convey the players voices. He/she can also report on issues between players and teams to the rest of the committee. This is a very important part of this whole thing.
All in all, if these people are truly serious about the growth of e-Sports in Korea, it could work out pretty well. I have high hopes, but remain with caution. It really is a nice setup if done faithfully, and I don't think it'd be bad to see something similar in the West when e-Sports grows more popular.
TeamLiquid is not yet involved since this association is aiming for Korean scene support right now. If they were based in South Korea, there would be 99% chance they would be part of this right from get-go.
This is bad for TL since theyre going with a "we pick these teams to run the show" angle.
TL is not one of those teams. You can argue that oGs cover them, but they wont prioritize some other minor team that are just their practice partners and help pay the house rent. One day oGs will have grown bigger and they will need the space occupied by TL.
And on that day TL will be kicked out of the oGs house, and TL will have no representation in Kespa 2.0.
If this new organisation form a team league, its also possible that TL will not be able to partake as a joint venture with oGs since they are technically 2 different teams. So either theyd have to merge for real or completely split. Leagues have rules and normally a player playing for your team actually has to be ON the team.
not if the foreigner scene grow big enough to keep up with the Korean scene.
If that happens and considering the hold and influence TL has over the foreign SC scene, it will be dumb not to get TL on board. After all TL is not just a team like oGs but also a huge community. It is like oGs + PlayXP combined.
On November 17 2010 02:27 dtz wrote: not if the foreigner scene grow big enough to keep up with the Korean scene.
If that happens and considering the hold and influence TL has over the foreign SC scene, it will be dumb not to get TL on board. After all TL is not just a team like oGs but also a huge community. It is like oGs + PlayXP combined.
For this argument to hold water the foreign scene has to bring in money to the korean scene, for example big season ticket sales and foreign sponsors.
Sony Ericsson sponsoring GSL is important, but i dont know about season ticket sales.
An actual functioning foreign team representing would also help.
I have confidence TL will be involved somewhat as long as they have members in Korea. Maybe Nazgul can let us know if it'll just be by an oGs ally or what, but really for TL to be directly involved (as in have someone part of the association itself) they'd need to have someone live in Korea permanently (and probably speak Korean) so they can meet with the association on a general basis. Let's not forget Liquid is still a foreigner team, not a Korean team. Liquid as of now only has 4 members in Korea, and that's hardly enough to participate in team events by themselves. They have, however, been participating with oGs.
I don't really want to participate in this discussion but if KeSPA wasn't so stubborn we wouldn't even have the need for this kespa 2. Very unfortunate.
KeSPA just missed something huge, just because they are abunch of thickheaded.
On November 17 2010 02:35 xBillehx wrote: They have, however, been participating with oGs.
Do you think this would be allowed in a pro league?
Im curious about this.
Do you think it wouldn't? oGs-TL has been allowed to co-exist in the GomTV Team Invitational and other events so far. GomTV is still going to be part of this association, and if the other teams don't mind (why would they?) then why not? We're not lookin at KeSPA here. :X
But again, Team Liquid isn't a fully functional team in Korea. They're international, and not everyone is there in Korea. If TL ever got a house in Korea, has enough members there in Korea and could run as a functional team in Korea I'm pretty sure they'd have a role in it. I suppose we'd have to hear from Nazgul for more information. I'd like for Liquid members to participate as well.
when I read the thread title i thought " fuck pls not another kespa" ... but this organisation seems quite legit lets see how it comes to use when a player has difficultys with his team or so
On November 17 2010 02:53 xBillehx wrote: Do you think it wouldn't? oGs-TL has been allowed to co-exist in the GomTV Team Invitational and other events so far. GomTV is still going to be part of this association, and if the other teams don't mind (why would they?) then why not? We're not lookin at KeSPA here.
Thats a different deal tho. They had a span of time with no SC2 content and threw something on air. An official league with longevity has a strict basic rule set which may prevent the oGs-TL constellation.
From a sponsor viewpoint its also weird. Lets say its a league game and on a normal day 4 out of 5 oGs-TL players are from the oGs camp. So oGs is obviously carrying the team, but then you have that 5th guy from TL, and he has The Little App Factory on his shirt and not the oGs sponsors. Point being, oGs sponsors may not like this.
I dunno. Maybe Im just paranoid about anything from Korea with the word "association" in it.
Edit:
Regarding other teams opinions on this, they may not approve of it since its very close to having "feeder teams".
Edit 2:
Tbh Im just throwing negative speculation at this topic and Im not a fan of that. Lets just see what happens.
On November 17 2010 01:30 andrewlt wrote: Hopefully, this will end up being a Proleague of some sort. Proleague is my favorite league in BW . It's the league that gives a certain stability to the scene as players who are eliminated early in the starleagues still get a chance to play and either rack up experience or play themselves out of a slump.
you know Proleague is IP of Kespa ^^
also
Novac As for shutting down BNet for SC:BW. No they have not done so and again I don't believe they will.
The very first bnet service is down (orginal Diablo 1 B.net), next in line is Sc:bw So telling that blizzard will never do is wishful thinking
You have a very good point, and I suppose all we can do is ask Nazgul (I sent him a quick PM) what our boys in blue will be doing. If oGs gets a big corporate sponsor it might not want TL represented. TL alone however, still only has 4 members there at the moment, and I dunno how any team league will deal with that. Perhaps they'll be able to participate and rotate used players after going through the roster once, perhaps not. One thing's for sure though, theres no reason to believe this association won't listen to these concerns and address them. TL.net is a very influential community, especially considering we're all potential viewers.
Edit: Since I don't think this merits a new post-
On November 17 2010 03:08 Frankon wrote: The very first bnet service is down (orginal Diablo 1 B.net), next in line is Sc:bw So telling that blizzard will never do is wishful thinking
AFAIK D1 battle.net is still alive, but you need to manually patch from Blizzard for it to work.
The very first bnet service is down (orginal Diablo 1 B.net), next in line is Sc:bw So telling that blizzard will never do is wishful thinking
Let me know if you know of another major game company that would support their old games for more than 10 years. B.net servers cost $ to keep up after all, and I doubt Blizzard sees any real sum of $ for keeping up classic B.net servers for SC:BW, Diablo 2, and WC2:B.net edition.
What they really need (or will eventually) is a player's union. Ultimately, GeSPA will represent the interests of the teams and their cooperate sponsors rather than the interests of the players. In the US, professional sports leagues have associations headed by the teams that form one power block and unions of the players that form another. One thing you'll notice is that leagues with weaker player unions (particularly the NFL) tend to do less to keep their players safe and guarantee their players income. MLB has an extremely strong (some might say too strong) player's union, and they have guaranteed contracts. The NFL has a weak union, and as such, you get broke former football players who have severe mental impairments due to repeated concussions suffered from playing the sport. These player get no support from the league, like covering medical expenses or whatnot.
If we want to support gamers, there needs to be something out there to represent the players' interests. As such, a player's union will hopefully be formed as eSports continues to grow.
On November 17 2010 03:38 JoeCrow wrote: Liquid not represented?
According to the article the association will have (at least) these elements and representatives: StarCraft 2 game team association, players association, and an advisory board.
No TL representatives. All representatives will be from the seven teams in the article, plus some "random" people such as a GOMTV employee and an e-sports editor.
I don't think teams that don't speak Korean should be in this. It is an impossible hassle to an organization not to be able to communicate with everyone directly. We don't understand the scene as well as the Koreans if we understand it at all. We may have a better understanding of how Korea works than the next foreigner but it is nothing compared to Koreans who have lived in this scene for so long. Not being able to speak the language can greatly hurt the effectiveness of an organization. Either you would slow everything down, possibly causing confusion and misunderstanding over translations, or you would end up being excluded.
I don't really have much of an opinion about this organization I'd say we just have to see how things go before making any judgments. If it's bad I'd be happy Liquid isn't part of it because we wouldn't have been able to stop anything and we do our own thing anyway, and if it's good we aren't really needed. I'm perfectly fine with the influence and expertise we have in the foreign scene. Korea is another world another culture that we can't fully understand it would make no sense to me to sit in some sort of board and apply our own values to the Korean scene. Let them do what they're good at and let us enjoy it by sending players there to participate.
On November 17 2010 04:07 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't think teams that don't speak Korean should be in this. It is an impossible hassle to an organization not to be able to communicate with everyone directly. We don't understand the scene as well as the Koreans if we understand it at all. We may have a better understanding of how Korea works than the next foreigner but it is nothing compared to Koreans who have lived in this scene for so long. Not being able to speak the language can greatly hurt the effectiveness of an organization. Either you would slow everything down, possibly causing confusion and misunderstanding over translations, or you would end up being excluded.
I don't really have much of an opinion about this organization I'd say we just have to see how things go before making any judgments. If it's bad I'd be happy Liquid isn't part of it because we wouldn't have been able to stop anything and we do our own thing anyway, and if it's good we aren't really needed. I'm perfectly fine with the influence and expertise we have in the foreign scene. Korea is another world another culture that we can't fully understand it would make no sense to me to sit in some sort of board and apply our own values to the Korean scene. Let them do what they're good at and let us enjoy it by sending players there to participate.
What about Liquid players playing games outside of GSL? If there is any SC2 Proleague will we see Liquid players participating, even as just a division of oGs?
On November 17 2010 04:07 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't think teams that don't speak Korean should be in this. It is an impossible hassle to an organization not to be able to communicate with everyone directly. We don't understand the scene as well as the Koreans if we understand it at all. We may have a better understanding of how Korea works than the next foreigner but it is nothing compared to Koreans who have lived in this scene for so long. Not being able to speak the language can greatly hurt the effectiveness of an organization. Either you would slow everything down, possibly causing confusion and misunderstanding over translations, or you would end up being excluded.
I don't really have much of an opinion about this organization I'd say we just have to see how things go before making any judgments. If it's bad I'd be happy Liquid isn't part of it because we wouldn't have been able to stop anything and we do our own thing anyway, and if it's good we aren't really needed. I'm perfectly fine with the influence and expertise we have in the foreign scene. Korea is another world another culture that we can't fully understand it would make no sense to me to sit in some sort of board and apply our own values to the Korean scene. Let them do what they're good at and let us enjoy it by sending players there to participate.
What about Liquid players playing games outside of GSL? If there is any SC2 Proleague will we see Liquid players participating, even as just a division of oGs?
Lets worry about that bridge when we cross it. After all, there would need to be a sc2 proleague first.
On November 17 2010 04:33 Am3692 wrote: Is the SlayerS clan going to be represented? The Emperor should have a spot in these talks, considering his experience in BW.
Probably, once they work out few more details that needs to be dealt with. Namely, a representative coach or a manager. BoxeR can't be since he's an active player who can't spend a lot of time to deal with the business side of things.
I also would not be surprised if BoxeR gets to be voted in as the first players representative. Didn't he try to make a players union back when he played BW? I am not 100% sure on that, since I only remember hearing that he tried, but KeSPA said "lolno". If it is true, then he'd make a good fit.
On November 17 2010 04:07 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't think teams that don't speak Korean should be in this. It is an impossible hassle to an organization not to be able to communicate with everyone directly. We don't understand the scene as well as the Koreans if we understand it at all. We may have a better understanding of how Korea works than the next foreigner but it is nothing compared to Koreans who have lived in this scene for so long. Not being able to speak the language can greatly hurt the effectiveness of an organization. Either you would slow everything down, possibly causing confusion and misunderstanding over translations, or you would end up being excluded.
I don't really have much of an opinion about this organization I'd say we just have to see how things go before making any judgments. If it's bad I'd be happy Liquid isn't part of it because we wouldn't have been able to stop anything and we do our own thing anyway, and if it's good we aren't really needed. I'm perfectly fine with the influence and expertise we have in the foreign scene. Korea is another world another culture that we can't fully understand it would make no sense to me to sit in some sort of board and apply our own values to the Korean scene. Let them do what they're good at and let us enjoy it by sending players there to participate.
What about Liquid players playing games outside of GSL? If there is any SC2 Proleague will we see Liquid players participating, even as just a division of oGs?
Lets worry about that bridge when we cross it. After all, there would need to be a sc2 proleague first.
What other primary focus would it have other than running PL? OP also says:
StarCraft 2 association aims to be an official association approved by Blizzard, and it will deal with the following: Protection of rights for the gamers and teams, operations of StarCraft 2 team's business-league sponsor, arbitrator for when there is an issue between a gamer and a team, and furthering the popularity of StarCraft 2 leagues that are linked with Blizzard-GomTV (editor's note: this most likely means, leagues that opened legit with permission from them).
What else can it be? GSL?
On November 17 2010 04:39 n0xi3 wrote: We need to stop worrying about foreign teams getting into this and start figuring out how we can make an "association" like this happen in the US.
On November 16 2010 17:40 PackofHighly wrote: I don't know about calling it "KeSPA 2". On the surface, this sounds very different.
Huh? It sounds identical -- except for one key thing -- that it's the coaches/players directly involved, rather than corporations like KeSPA. It's off too a good start but it's really KeSPA 2.0
I think that is a such an important difference though!!! KeSPA held all the cards and was able to oppress progamers, especially the B-team guys who basically made no money. I think unionizing the players is great idea and will ultimately help e-sports alot!
On November 16 2010 17:40 PackofHighly wrote: I don't know about calling it "KeSPA 2". On the surface, this sounds very different.
Huh? It sounds identical -- except for one key thing -- that it's the coaches/players directly involved, rather than corporations like KeSPA. It's off too a good start but it's really KeSPA 2.0
I think that is a such an important difference though!!! KeSPA held all the cards and was able to oppress progamers, especially the B-team guys who basically made no money. I think unionizing the players is great idea and will ultimately help e-sports alot!
Are you deluded? Where is the money going to suddenly appear from to give B-teamers a salary now? If anything there just won't even be any B-teamers anymore.
On November 17 2010 04:07 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't think teams that don't speak Korean should be in this. It is an impossible hassle to an organization not to be able to communicate with everyone directly. We don't understand the scene as well as the Koreans if we understand it at all. We may have a better understanding of how Korea works than the next foreigner but it is nothing compared to Koreans who have lived in this scene for so long. Not being able to speak the language can greatly hurt the effectiveness of an organization. Either you would slow everything down, possibly causing confusion and misunderstanding over translations, or you would end up being excluded.
I don't really have much of an opinion about this organization I'd say we just have to see how things go before making any judgments. If it's bad I'd be happy Liquid isn't part of it because we wouldn't have been able to stop anything and we do our own thing anyway, and if it's good we aren't really needed. I'm perfectly fine with the influence and expertise we have in the foreign scene. Korea is another world another culture that we can't fully understand it would make no sense to me to sit in some sort of board and apply our own values to the Korean scene. Let them do what they're good at and let us enjoy it by sending players there to participate.
I definitely agree that having an english speaking person in this organization could slow things down. HOWEVER, with that said that does not mean that players who are not associated with these teams should not be represented. I think that it is only fair that if you are participating in any pro-starcraft matches that this organization would oversee or interact with, then those progamers should have someone who is representing their interests (i.e. All players who play hockey in the NHL are represented in the NHLPA). So I agree that Liquid having a person involved in discussions might not be practical but perhaps they should delegate someone to represent their interests like the oGs person for example.
On November 16 2010 17:40 PackofHighly wrote: I don't know about calling it "KeSPA 2". On the surface, this sounds very different.
Huh? It sounds identical -- except for one key thing -- that it's the coaches/players directly involved, rather than corporations like KeSPA. It's off too a good start but it's really KeSPA 2.0
I think that is a such an important difference though!!! KeSPA held all the cards and was able to oppress progamers, especially the B-team guys who basically made no money. I think unionizing the players is great idea and will ultimately help e-sports alot!
Are you deluded? Where is the money going to suddenly appear from to give B-teamers a salary now? If anything there just won't even be any B-teamers anymore.
I never said B-teamers have to get paid or that magic money would appear to give them a salary ... I just said player involvement is important specifically so that players have a voice and can protect their interests. Am I wrong about that?
I agree that it would be good to have somebody on the board from the foreign perspective. But I think it shouldn't be solely from TL. I think it would be best if the foreign teams who have people playing in Korea would get together and see if they can get somebody on the board to speak for all of them. But as Nazgul says it should be somebody who fully understands the culture and the workings of the scene in Korea.
TL on itself might not be big enough but together with for example EG I think they could potentially be. Seeing how there is more and more talk of setting up an EG house in Korea.
And if in the team league TL isn't allowed to participate together with oGs and the EG house does really happen perhaps both of them could band together for the team league and play as 1 team.
And no matter what please please please keep the sponsors out of this.
On November 17 2010 04:07 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't think teams that don't speak Korean should be in this. It is an impossible hassle to an organization not to be able to communicate with everyone directly. We don't understand the scene as well as the Koreans if we understand it at all. We may have a better understanding of how Korea works than the next foreigner but it is nothing compared to Koreans who have lived in this scene for so long. Not being able to speak the language can greatly hurt the effectiveness of an organization. Either you would slow everything down, possibly causing confusion and misunderstanding over translations, or you would end up being excluded.
I don't really have much of an opinion about this organization I'd say we just have to see how things go before making any judgments. If it's bad I'd be happy Liquid isn't part of it because we wouldn't have been able to stop anything and we do our own thing anyway, and if it's good we aren't really needed. I'm perfectly fine with the influence and expertise we have in the foreign scene. Korea is another world another culture that we can't fully understand it would make no sense to me to sit in some sort of board and apply our own values to the Korean scene. Let them do what they're good at and let us enjoy it by sending players there to participate.
TL members already participate in Korean events. I know there's a 0% chance you havn't thought of getting Korean speakers to mediate things for you, so why not?
On November 16 2010 23:41 Novac wrote: Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
Except you have no basis for this argument at all. Blizzard already has FULL power over the esports scene of SC2. Hello, no LAN mode? And yet the Korean and Foreign scenes are already one of the biggest games (if not the biggest) games in esports with Blizzard having basically full control over who can run what.
On November 16 2010 23:41 Novac wrote: Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
How is that any different from the power KESPA has? If a KESPA BW player wants to switch to SC2, they lose their license for 3 years and might even have their records "accidentally deleted."
If you think Blizzard is just going to cut off access to SC2 when a new game they want to play comes out, then that is just ridiculous. Has Blizzard shut off BNet for SC:BW yet? For WC3? Did they kill D2 classic when LoD came out?
Anyway, this all depends on how much power the players association is given. If it is something akin to the NBA, NFL, etc., then I think it might be very good for the players.
If it is just a figurehead position with no power, then it might be very bad for the players.
Aside from keeping b.net running, Blizzard pretty much abandoned bw/wc3 loooooooooong time ago, which is hilarious because their main argument over bw was that they want to protect the rights of the game and keep supporting it.
That would be because the BW scene is still relevant. Not insulting War3, but it exists on its own just fine, whereas the BW scene is deeply entwined with the fate of SC2. And what do you expect Blizz to do? Should we be complaining they don't support the War1 scene enough? When is it okay to let a game go?
I think this is really cool but i would like to see some foreigner teams included in this. Teamliquid or EG, since EG is planning on having a team house in Korea in 2011
Also, does this mean we can get SC2 team logos in our sig now?
doesn't mean the robotic nature of the current sc1 progammers is going to spill over into the new esports organization.
I really hope you see the value in gamer's being well-mannered and acting with sportsmanlike conduct like..oh I don't know...good sportsmen? Unless of course progamers are supposed to be like prepubescent teens that rage at every loss.
On November 17 2010 06:41 hellsan631 wrote: I really hope that this:
Gamer's basic behavior education
doesn't mean the robotic nature of the current sc1 progammers is going to spill over into the new esports organization.
I really hope you see the value in gamer's being well-mannered and acting with sportsmanlike conduct like..oh I don't know...good sportsmen? Unless of course progamers are supposed to be like prepubescent teens that rage at every loss.
Not even actual pro athletes are as reserved and regulated as Kespa's players.
I don't see how this organisation will benefit players when it is kinda related to blizzard which states that everything belong to them ? The maps,the replays,the games.... If you buy for example software lets say photoshop and they have stated that everything you create adobe will have IP rights over it...This is a joke SC2 kespa is just bad idea there is kespa already I realy don't like how the things are going... It's like gettin second FIFA or second UN that will fight with the other. From this no one benefit. And im sure that things will get ugly very soon.
I'm willing to bet that Blizzard will get on-board with these players and coaches. Have little doubt that they are already aware of it, due to their affiliation with Gretech. Blizzard will be able to design the teams and sponsorships on a global level, this could be their first major step in the door into a truly global eSport. Once (because they will) they drop the region lock, a global players association and sponsorship program will be soon to follow.
Hmm interesting news. Kespa 2.0 sounds like it should be an improvement, and sounds like a nice step towards getting an SC2 version of PL, which would be pretty sweet. What a coincidence that Woongjin Stars are my Fav. bw team, and for now, my fav. sc2 team is Startale (mainly because of ITR, and July).
Sounds like SC2 is starting to gain some ground in Korea. This can only mean we'll see a proleague pretty soon, which will be fantastic! Great news to hear that the players will be directly involved as well, even though this is just a revamped KeSPA lol.
In a meanwhile, in the StarCraft 2 gamer orientation, it will include the following topics and then some: Gamer's basic behavior education, interview method education from Fomos' reporter, Kim Kyung Hyun, and 2011 league operation plans from GomTV e-sports business unit, Chae Jeong Won.
Nooooooooooo, we need more DAVIT style of interviews
Now everyone's just gonna say the same politically correct stuff like in BW interviews.
Welll I definitely like that it's made up of coaches and players. The more often the ones with a vested interest in the quality and continued success (as well as player wellfare) the better off SC2 e-sports will be.
On November 17 2010 10:30 Grettin wrote: waiting for legal actions or death threats by kespa.
thanks for the translation, well see how this turns out.
Lol
Anyway I think since neither Liquid or EG has enough players to really compete in this, but all the players seem to know each other kinda well it will be a cool idea to have the 2 teams compete together vs top teams. Who wouldn't want to see a Lineup of TLO, IdrA, Huk, Ret, Incontrol.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
That really doesn't make any sense.
You argue that Blizzard will destroy Esports when the one thing they want is more people to play their games, which is how it was with Brood War and it's how it is with SC2. Just because they ask for more control over the game they actually worked on is not an instant correlation to "Herp, they want to destroy E-sports guys!"
I really don't know how I could have made it any clearer that I don't think that it is Blizzards intention to destroy eSports but that under the current circumstances, they could.
Please read the whole thing next time or don't comment at all.
Torch seems to be really concentrating on the behind the scenes of Progaming. Him being there and his recent recruitment into STARTALE gives him, a foreigner, access to the new association's insides.
I don't like the whole Blizzard suing MBC & OGN thing, and still I look into Blizzard/Gom handling this issue with suspicion.
However in my point of view, this new association will mean a good thing for the community. Since it's giving a competition for KeSPA, way indirectly perhaps, but I still believe it's a good sign for the community.
you know this is all good, but i really think that even though foreigners don't really compare to the koreans except for the few exceptionally good players, it would have been cool to see TL or even EG on that list, even though the chances of getting rocked were great, there are always teams in professional sports that always get destroyed, but i think if TL was there too, it would help NA and EU eSPORTS advancement and help our foreigner pros becoming even better. If only we got the chance to do that.
I hope blizzard "approves" of this! its kind of funny thinking of something such as a "players union" i guess with all things you have to fight for it before you can legitimize it. pro gamers fighting! ^^
On November 16 2010 17:30 Gonodactylus wrote: Ooh wow Blizzard is going to love that.
Remember, Blizzard hates Kespa for different reasons people here do. Blizzard would hate kespa just as much if they were total saints. Interests just collide.
Blizzard will try to stop this before they get too powerful. Can't have something not under their control and this is exactly that.
I doubt Blizzard will impede this organization. Blizzard is kindof like the USA, as long as you trade with them under thier terms and you're not Comunist, they're willing to let you rape and pillage pretty much whoever you want. Blizzard doesn't care about controlling e-sports, they just care about profitting off of e-sports broadcasting (and why shouldn't they, it's thier IP that is being sold)
They want a kind of Queen of England stance. They don't want to have to do anything, but if they want to do something they want to have the power to make people listen.
On November 16 2010 23:41 Novac wrote: Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
Blizzard is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE company to push the popularity of e-sports forward. The only thing they do well is make games. Blizzard has always held a draconian policy regarding thier IPs, and they won't let e-sports involving thier games move forward unless they get a cut.
On November 16 2010 23:41 Novac wrote: Hmm... I can't help but feel that having the game manufacturer controlling so much of the eSports scene pertaining to their games is dangerous.
This is not about SC:BW but merely the fact that Blizzard wants a "With permission from Blizzard" clause in everything. Meaning that if they felt like it, all eSports based on their games could be shut down over night. They could simply refuse to give permission or renew broadcasting rights to any of their games and everyone will be forced on to their next game.
It is scary that this is setting precedent for the relation between a game manufacturer and eSports.
Where is the protection for all the people dedicating their life to eSports if Blizzard felt like forcing everyone to play Starcraft 3? Or 4? At some point some legal protection against the possibility of a game manufacturer pulling the plug will have to be created. Otherwise we might as well not even try getting eSports properly off the ground.
Some will probably argue: "It's Blizzard's game. They can do what they want, when they want. Deal with it." Well as I said above. If this is the case then we might as well just scrap the dream of eSports becoming a popular and widely accepted pass time.
Blizzard is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE company to push the popularity of e-sports forward. The only thing they do well is make games. Blizzard has always held a draconian policy regarding thier IPs, and they won't let e-sports involving thier games move forward unless they get a cut.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Blizzard never wanted to make money from brood war esports - they charged GomTV ONE DOLLAR for broadcasting rights, and was going to donate ALL THE FEES from OSL/MSL to charity.
Well I don't know if this should be put in a new thread or not but...
The Starcraft 2 council has it's own website now here: http://s2con.com And it seems like a lot of the pro-players signed up on a pro-only type of forum where they can talk about things amongst themselves. The "famous e-sports specialized webzine" appears to be Fomos itself.
It seems like all news posts about the council will be on Fomos and duplicated to this website so it'll be easy to track news about it.
That's about all I can really understand since most of it's in Korean, but it might be a website to keep track of in the future as it progresses.
every comment in this thread is fearmongering or cheering based on what "might happen"
A meteor might crash into earth the day before the first protoss wins the GSL. It doesn't mean that it's going to happen or that it's worth worrying about until we actually see the meteor.
None of you are smart enough to predict what is GOING to happen with this. So instead we should focus our effort on doing what will make this as positive an experience as possible. Everyone who's used the word obviously in this thread isn't worth listening to.
What do you want to say to all those in your fan club that want you to stream again? They are very sad you know.
I am sorry, I can't begin streaming again. I belong to the SC2 Association (E/N: this) and they prefer progamers don't stream.
Why would the SC2 Association have an opinion on this issue?
Good bump I was wondering this as well. He says they "prefer" that the progamers don't stream. Is their any kind of punishment/garnishment involved if he does want to stream?
EPT
