• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:42
CEST 15:42
KST 22:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 727 users

About the new Korean SC2 Association

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 22:58:40
November 16 2010 22:36 GMT
#1
To everyone that says "TL needs to be involved," or "OMG NOOO!! KESPA 2!!" here are some things for you to consider:

The whole point of this organization is not to take the SC2 Korean scene by the balls like Kespa did for SC1, it's to make sure the teams and players are protected and promoted to max potential.

The fact of the matter is this: in SC1 things were a lot worse for the players than any of you can imagine. I can't go into detail on specifics, but players rights were certainly being violated by terms in the contract which they had no choice to abide by because there was nothing to protect them. Things like any prize money earned or revenue generated from event appearances was either somewhat or completely being taken by the sponsors of the teams. The amounts of course varied by teams. Some didn't take much and some took everything. Yes it was bad. The reason why they could do this is because Kespa was organized by the sponsors and controlled the players. Either the progamer abided by their terms or they didn't get to play.

And while, from a business perspective, the sponsors got more than enough out of marketing from paying X00,000$~equivalent per year to sponsor a team, marketing value is intangible and companies will strive to do whatever they can to make as much real money as they can. Whether or not turning players into 'slaves' by wringing as much real $ out of them through taking prize money and event appearance pay amongst other things is 'unethical' or not is completely up for debate.

Remember: the SC1 scene in Korea grew from literally nothing in less than 10 years into a massive industry. The rate of growth was phenomenal, and the only reason why this happened was because the sponsors decided to jump in and get involved. If a team originally approached a sponsor and said "hey pay us 400k a year to run our team and we'll wear your logo!" obviously when SC1 in Korea wasn't as big any company would have just laughed at that. Thats why things started off and continued the way they were: Teams had to entice sponsors to sponsor them. So please don't say the sponsors were/are being 'unfair.' It simply had to be that way.

Now, fast forward to present day. The industry in Korea has grown so big that not only do companies not need to violate players' rights, but through news portals and such or players speaking out, it would be suicidal for their images. But, at the same time, the dawn of the SC2 world is a ravenous jungle. Everyone in Korea (players, coaches, sponsors) realize the massive potential to make money.

Imagine if there was no sort of unity amongst the players and teams. What would happen? What would happen is the sponsors would have the exact same power over everyone as they did in SC1. Reality is that progamers, managers, coaches, etc. all have no $ and will have to accept deals sooner or later whether they like it or not. Without any sort of unity sponsors could abuse this 'desperate' state of teams and give them far less than they are worth, which is not good. The industry is too developed, it would be idiotic for the teams not to form some sort of union to prevent this from happening and get what they deserve.

This is where the new association comes in. It was made to help the teams create a fluid unity amongst eachother to ensure that teams' and players' rights are upheld. It will also help teams communicate and work together to make their marketing value increase. If everyone were out for themselves nobody would win here.

Does TL need to be involved in this right now? No. As far as the Korean scene is concerned, TL isn't something they need to care about at the moment. Sure, it generates a lot of interest in the foreign scene and is very good for GOMtv/Blizzard, but in reality just because TL has some non-koreans living in the OGS house doesn't mean anything.

The rates of growth of the Korean scene and the non-Korean scene will determine when sponsored foreign teams like TL or others might want to get involved with the decision making process in an association like this. While for now it's too early to tell, in my opinion within a year or two we will have LOTS of non-Koreans flying into Korea for tournaments or to live as a professional team, and we will have LOTS of Koreans flying around the world to international events. And then we will need clear lines of communication. But that time is not yet, it's merely beginning.

The SC2 scene is still young. I can definitely see a future where Nazgul/TLAF(orwhomever may be sponsoring the team in the future if TLAF decides to stop) wants to get a lot more involved in the Korean scene/press to help expand the industry in Korea for the good of the foreign scene, TL.net, and the Korean scene (lets face it we all know the fans LOVE seeing non-Koreans do well in Korean tournaments). When that time comes obviously it will happen, so it's pointless for people to just spam posts "TL.net SHOULD BE INVOLVED!"

For now, TL.net or any other foreign team for that matter doesn't have any real reason to get involved. For now, we just have to let the Koreans do their thing in Korea and international teams/tournaments do their thing outside Korea and all do our best as fans, players, casters, sponsors (whichever the hell you are, because if you're reading this you're one of those LOL) to watch, talk about, and promote the scene as much as possible.

I hope that clarified things.
why so 진지해?
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
November 16 2010 22:37 GMT
#2
As always an interesting read Rek.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
biskit
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia355 Posts
November 16 2010 22:41 GMT
#3
Thank you for clarifying things up. I always find your posts insightful.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
November 16 2010 22:42 GMT
#4
Thanks Rek.
Administrator
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3546 Posts
November 16 2010 22:42 GMT
#5
Rek you are amazing. Didn't you say you wanted back in? Any updates on that? Also I wish you would teach me how to play better nl holdem but I know its not going to happen
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
November 16 2010 22:43 GMT
#6
good post. it's an important distinction that this organization is being formed by the managers and coaches, while kespa was formed by sponsors.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
November 16 2010 22:44 GMT
#7
Very insightiful post, thanks for taking the time to write it.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 22:46:22
November 16 2010 22:45 GMT
#8
While for now it's too early to tell, in my opinion within a year or two we will have LOTS of non-Koreans flying into Korea for tournaments or to live as a professional team, and we will have LOTS of Koreans flying around the world to international events.


Hopefully
Korea is the mecca of esports but I absolutely love when korean players go and play abroad. Blizzcon was a good start but we need more regular global tournaments Hopefully we'll get to see oGs, TSL and all these teams send players to MLG and such .
o choro é livre
towerranger
Profile Joined March 2010
Austria134 Posts
November 16 2010 22:45 GMT
#9
thanks for this post rek
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
November 16 2010 22:47 GMT
#10
Rek your amazing as you always are
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
November 16 2010 22:50 GMT
#11
There's nothing quite like the taste of a smack in the face with sound logic and reasoning.
Oh no
Gezz
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom81 Posts
November 16 2010 22:50 GMT
#12
Nice summary of whats going on over there.
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
November 16 2010 22:50 GMT
#13
Did any of ex sc1 progamer speak out about team abuse or such matter?
I am not good with quotes
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
November 16 2010 22:52 GMT
#14
Awesome post Rekrul, I hope to see you involved more in esports in the future.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
SCdinner
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada516 Posts
November 16 2010 22:53 GMT
#15
Its sounds like once SC2 is fully developed as an eSport all top professional players will be living in Korea. Is there no chance we could have a simular scene in North America if not as big at least large enough to have teams and people making a living playing competitive starcraft 2? Could there ever be an American SC2 Association modeled after the Korean one, is there enough interest here to do so? If there was then I think it would be fair for team liquid to be heavily involved with our SC2 eSport association.
My other car is a battlecruiser.
tok
Profile Joined April 2010
United States691 Posts
November 16 2010 22:53 GMT
#16
I think with Blizzard behind them, this new organization will do well to protect the players, teams, and tournaments so that we don't have any CPL horror stories of players not getting paid or B teamer horror stories of being the team slave for a year.
puttputt
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada240 Posts
November 16 2010 22:53 GMT
#17
Love you big guy ^^

Rek is right, everyone needs to chill.. This guy knows how the system works.
from saskatchewan? saskgamers.com
Clearout
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1060 Posts
November 16 2010 22:55 GMT
#18
Thanks for the post Rekrul, cleared out (ohoohoo) a few things for me
really?
PackofHighly
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States153 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 22:57:21
November 16 2010 22:56 GMT
#19
On November 17 2010 07:36 Rekrul wrote:in my opinion within a year or two we will have LOTS of non-Koreans flying into Korea for tournaments or to live as a professional team, and we will have LOTS of Koreans flying around the world to international events. And then we will need clear lines of communication. But that time is not yet, it's merely beginning.


This is much like what I have been thinking. 2011 is going to be a telling year. MLG could grow to the point where it has a prize pool that attracts Koreans to America. Even now, the payout is terrific for a weekend thing and the main consideration lies with disruption to GSL.

I also believe we'll see SC2 eSports on a TV channel in the US before the end of 2011.

Of course I'm just "joe blow."
THIS was your PLAN?
Selith
Profile Joined September 2010
United States238 Posts
November 16 2010 22:57 GMT
#20
On November 17 2010 07:50 s.a.y wrote:
Did any of ex sc1 progamer speak out about team abuse or such matter?


Not directly. Korean culture is such that speaking out against an establishment (especially those of power, such as government or big corporations) is not a good thing for your well being.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
ComeBackTV 1669
RotterdaM1649
IndyStarCraft 501
WardiTV232
CranKy Ducklings213
Rex147
3DClanTV 99
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1649
IndyStarCraft 501
Rex 147
ProTech64
BRAT_OK 63
MindelVK 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 53561
Horang2 7089
EffOrt 1945
Hyuk 1627
Barracks 1103
Larva 855
BeSt 698
firebathero 495
Stork 441
Last 291
[ Show more ]
Hyun 277
Soulkey 242
Rush 113
Sharp 65
Movie 60
Dewaltoss 57
Shinee 55
Free 48
sas.Sziky 45
sSak 36
Shine 33
sorry 32
zelot 22
yabsab 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Terrorterran 10
Dota 2
qojqva3582
Gorgc3019
XcaliburYe485
420jenkins121
League of Legends
febbydoto9
Counter-Strike
sgares373
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor525
Other Games
B2W.Neo2009
Beastyqt1057
Hui .351
DeMusliM264
oskar190
Fuzer 171
QueenE51
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH354
• HeavenSC 12
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3866
• WagamamaTV901
League of Legends
• Nemesis3164
• Jankos1399
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4h 18m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.