• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:41
CET 17:41
KST 01:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
PC Games Sales Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1857 users

About the new Korean SC2 Association

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 22:58:40
November 16 2010 22:36 GMT
#1
To everyone that says "TL needs to be involved," or "OMG NOOO!! KESPA 2!!" here are some things for you to consider:

The whole point of this organization is not to take the SC2 Korean scene by the balls like Kespa did for SC1, it's to make sure the teams and players are protected and promoted to max potential.

The fact of the matter is this: in SC1 things were a lot worse for the players than any of you can imagine. I can't go into detail on specifics, but players rights were certainly being violated by terms in the contract which they had no choice to abide by because there was nothing to protect them. Things like any prize money earned or revenue generated from event appearances was either somewhat or completely being taken by the sponsors of the teams. The amounts of course varied by teams. Some didn't take much and some took everything. Yes it was bad. The reason why they could do this is because Kespa was organized by the sponsors and controlled the players. Either the progamer abided by their terms or they didn't get to play.

And while, from a business perspective, the sponsors got more than enough out of marketing from paying X00,000$~equivalent per year to sponsor a team, marketing value is intangible and companies will strive to do whatever they can to make as much real money as they can. Whether or not turning players into 'slaves' by wringing as much real $ out of them through taking prize money and event appearance pay amongst other things is 'unethical' or not is completely up for debate.

Remember: the SC1 scene in Korea grew from literally nothing in less than 10 years into a massive industry. The rate of growth was phenomenal, and the only reason why this happened was because the sponsors decided to jump in and get involved. If a team originally approached a sponsor and said "hey pay us 400k a year to run our team and we'll wear your logo!" obviously when SC1 in Korea wasn't as big any company would have just laughed at that. Thats why things started off and continued the way they were: Teams had to entice sponsors to sponsor them. So please don't say the sponsors were/are being 'unfair.' It simply had to be that way.

Now, fast forward to present day. The industry in Korea has grown so big that not only do companies not need to violate players' rights, but through news portals and such or players speaking out, it would be suicidal for their images. But, at the same time, the dawn of the SC2 world is a ravenous jungle. Everyone in Korea (players, coaches, sponsors) realize the massive potential to make money.

Imagine if there was no sort of unity amongst the players and teams. What would happen? What would happen is the sponsors would have the exact same power over everyone as they did in SC1. Reality is that progamers, managers, coaches, etc. all have no $ and will have to accept deals sooner or later whether they like it or not. Without any sort of unity sponsors could abuse this 'desperate' state of teams and give them far less than they are worth, which is not good. The industry is too developed, it would be idiotic for the teams not to form some sort of union to prevent this from happening and get what they deserve.

This is where the new association comes in. It was made to help the teams create a fluid unity amongst eachother to ensure that teams' and players' rights are upheld. It will also help teams communicate and work together to make their marketing value increase. If everyone were out for themselves nobody would win here.

Does TL need to be involved in this right now? No. As far as the Korean scene is concerned, TL isn't something they need to care about at the moment. Sure, it generates a lot of interest in the foreign scene and is very good for GOMtv/Blizzard, but in reality just because TL has some non-koreans living in the OGS house doesn't mean anything.

The rates of growth of the Korean scene and the non-Korean scene will determine when sponsored foreign teams like TL or others might want to get involved with the decision making process in an association like this. While for now it's too early to tell, in my opinion within a year or two we will have LOTS of non-Koreans flying into Korea for tournaments or to live as a professional team, and we will have LOTS of Koreans flying around the world to international events. And then we will need clear lines of communication. But that time is not yet, it's merely beginning.

The SC2 scene is still young. I can definitely see a future where Nazgul/TLAF(orwhomever may be sponsoring the team in the future if TLAF decides to stop) wants to get a lot more involved in the Korean scene/press to help expand the industry in Korea for the good of the foreign scene, TL.net, and the Korean scene (lets face it we all know the fans LOVE seeing non-Koreans do well in Korean tournaments). When that time comes obviously it will happen, so it's pointless for people to just spam posts "TL.net SHOULD BE INVOLVED!"

For now, TL.net or any other foreign team for that matter doesn't have any real reason to get involved. For now, we just have to let the Koreans do their thing in Korea and international teams/tournaments do their thing outside Korea and all do our best as fans, players, casters, sponsors (whichever the hell you are, because if you're reading this you're one of those LOL) to watch, talk about, and promote the scene as much as possible.

I hope that clarified things.
why so 진지해?
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
November 16 2010 22:37 GMT
#2
As always an interesting read Rek.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
biskit
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia355 Posts
November 16 2010 22:41 GMT
#3
Thank you for clarifying things up. I always find your posts insightful.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
November 16 2010 22:42 GMT
#4
Thanks Rek.
Administrator
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3548 Posts
November 16 2010 22:42 GMT
#5
Rek you are amazing. Didn't you say you wanted back in? Any updates on that? Also I wish you would teach me how to play better nl holdem but I know its not going to happen
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
November 16 2010 22:43 GMT
#6
good post. it's an important distinction that this organization is being formed by the managers and coaches, while kespa was formed by sponsors.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
November 16 2010 22:44 GMT
#7
Very insightiful post, thanks for taking the time to write it.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 22:46:22
November 16 2010 22:45 GMT
#8
While for now it's too early to tell, in my opinion within a year or two we will have LOTS of non-Koreans flying into Korea for tournaments or to live as a professional team, and we will have LOTS of Koreans flying around the world to international events.


Hopefully
Korea is the mecca of esports but I absolutely love when korean players go and play abroad. Blizzcon was a good start but we need more regular global tournaments Hopefully we'll get to see oGs, TSL and all these teams send players to MLG and such .
o choro é livre
towerranger
Profile Joined March 2010
Austria134 Posts
November 16 2010 22:45 GMT
#9
thanks for this post rek
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
November 16 2010 22:47 GMT
#10
Rek your amazing as you always are
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
November 16 2010 22:50 GMT
#11
There's nothing quite like the taste of a smack in the face with sound logic and reasoning.
Oh no
Gezz
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom81 Posts
November 16 2010 22:50 GMT
#12
Nice summary of whats going on over there.
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
November 16 2010 22:50 GMT
#13
Did any of ex sc1 progamer speak out about team abuse or such matter?
I am not good with quotes
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
November 16 2010 22:52 GMT
#14
Awesome post Rekrul, I hope to see you involved more in esports in the future.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
SCdinner
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada516 Posts
November 16 2010 22:53 GMT
#15
Its sounds like once SC2 is fully developed as an eSport all top professional players will be living in Korea. Is there no chance we could have a simular scene in North America if not as big at least large enough to have teams and people making a living playing competitive starcraft 2? Could there ever be an American SC2 Association modeled after the Korean one, is there enough interest here to do so? If there was then I think it would be fair for team liquid to be heavily involved with our SC2 eSport association.
My other car is a battlecruiser.
tok
Profile Joined April 2010
United States691 Posts
November 16 2010 22:53 GMT
#16
I think with Blizzard behind them, this new organization will do well to protect the players, teams, and tournaments so that we don't have any CPL horror stories of players not getting paid or B teamer horror stories of being the team slave for a year.
puttputt
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada240 Posts
November 16 2010 22:53 GMT
#17
Love you big guy ^^

Rek is right, everyone needs to chill.. This guy knows how the system works.
from saskatchewan? saskgamers.com
Clearout
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1060 Posts
November 16 2010 22:55 GMT
#18
Thanks for the post Rekrul, cleared out (ohoohoo) a few things for me
really?
PackofHighly
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States153 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 22:57:21
November 16 2010 22:56 GMT
#19
On November 17 2010 07:36 Rekrul wrote:in my opinion within a year or two we will have LOTS of non-Koreans flying into Korea for tournaments or to live as a professional team, and we will have LOTS of Koreans flying around the world to international events. And then we will need clear lines of communication. But that time is not yet, it's merely beginning.


This is much like what I have been thinking. 2011 is going to be a telling year. MLG could grow to the point where it has a prize pool that attracts Koreans to America. Even now, the payout is terrific for a weekend thing and the main consideration lies with disruption to GSL.

I also believe we'll see SC2 eSports on a TV channel in the US before the end of 2011.

Of course I'm just "joe blow."
THIS was your PLAN?
Selith
Profile Joined September 2010
United States238 Posts
November 16 2010 22:57 GMT
#20
On November 17 2010 07:50 s.a.y wrote:
Did any of ex sc1 progamer speak out about team abuse or such matter?


Not directly. Korean culture is such that speaking out against an establishment (especially those of power, such as government or big corporations) is not a good thing for your well being.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
King of the Hill #234
SteadfastSC54
Liquipedia
WardiTV 2025
11:00
Playoffs
ShoWTimE vs CureLIVE!
WardiTV1737
ComeBackTV 1004
TaKeTV 503
IndyStarCraft 263
Rex142
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko507
IndyStarCraft 263
RotterdaM 230
Rex 142
ProTech119
Liquid`VortiX 99
SteadfastSC 54
BRAT_OK 29
MindelVK 22
DivinesiaTV 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23648
Calm 3296
Bisu 2320
Rain 1727
actioN 805
Horang2 717
Stork 546
Shuttle 333
Larva 175
firebathero 159
[ Show more ]
Mini 135
Hyun 122
Mind 90
JYJ 89
Zeus 64
Aegong 48
Killer 39
Mong 33
JulyZerg 33
Shinee 24
910 19
soO 16
GoRush 16
sorry 14
Yoon 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Sacsri 8
SilentControl 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6224
singsing4720
qojqva2953
LuMiX1
Super Smash Bros
Westballz23
Other Games
B2W.Neo1869
hiko555
crisheroes400
FrodaN205
KnowMe190
XaKoH 170
Trikslyr53
Chillindude28
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4642
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
19m
YoungYakov vs Jumy
TriGGeR vs Spirit
The PiG Daily
4h 19m
SHIN vs ByuN
Reynor vs Classic
TBD vs herO
Maru vs SHIN
TBD vs Classic
CranKy Ducklings
17h 19m
WardiTV 2025
18h 19m
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
19h 49m
Ladder Legends
1d 2h
BSL 21
1d 3h
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 17h
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.