EPTIt's not a game breaker but it gurantees the zerg he can go hatch first without fear of any early aggresion. Instead of rax first my next most viable and potentially effective early game pressure is probably going to be hellion harass if they micro/block ramps effectively. But with the roach range upgrade that's going to be difficult, i guess against hatch first zerg i'm going to have to feign hellion and go banshee's and hope he doesn't have a 3 queens or spores down. But that almost feels a little all in harass as to do that i have to 1 base while he'll be macroing up on 2 base. So stick with MM play and time it before he gets infestors? banelings are still a problem if he spreads creep. Might have to go MM + hellion and tank leap ideally with a raven for PDL against hydra/muta/roach. Either way i feel like terran is starting to become the more reactionary race as zerg FE openings got a bit of a buff.
Blizzard on 1v1 Balancing and the new patch - Page 65
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shykoreangirl
China14 Posts
It's not a game breaker but it gurantees the zerg he can go hatch first without fear of any early aggresion. Instead of rax first my next most viable and potentially effective early game pressure is probably going to be hellion harass if they micro/block ramps effectively. But with the roach range upgrade that's going to be difficult, i guess against hatch first zerg i'm going to have to feign hellion and go banshee's and hope he doesn't have a 3 queens or spores down. But that almost feels a little all in harass as to do that i have to 1 base while he'll be macroing up on 2 base. So stick with MM play and time it before he gets infestors? banelings are still a problem if he spreads creep. Might have to go MM + hellion and tank leap ideally with a raven for PDL against hydra/muta/roach. Either way i feel like terran is starting to become the more reactionary race as zerg FE openings got a bit of a buff. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
This will be a good start to stabilise the early game of both PvT and ZvT. Then they have over-nerfed reapers unnecessarily. The reaper speed to factory is unnecessary. Plus roach range will make defending against reapers easier. Of course the roach change will also help a lot versus hellions. But maybe a hellion change would have been better idea instead. Reduced range but more splash and more base dmg less +light perhaps. Terran will need late-game buffs pretty soon. And they also need to address the issue of it being too easy. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On October 08 2010 06:58 swordsaint wrote: Yes because games are won by the number of units you produce at your own base without taking into consideration travel distances, wall-offs and static defenses. "I just built 6 lings with no speed vs your 1 marine. I've already won. Quit now". If you're not going to address what I posted, then don't quote me. | ||
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misaTO
Argentina204 Posts
On October 08 2010 06:48 DoubleReed wrote: It should be mentioned that a spawning pool costs 250. A gate and a pylon costs 250. And a depot and rax costs 250. This really isn't as unfair as it sounds. More like Spire denying and Ultralisk Cavern denying...and those buildings aren't cheap... i rather snipe his gas early so i delay his gas units while abusing marines. | ||
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SKtheAnathema
United States885 Posts
On October 08 2010 06:18 checo wrote: Make zerg need an Ovie before pool... OMG... what a bullshit... Hope blizzard give sthis a good test before it comes out, ZvT seems balance these days hope this doesn't fuck it up yes, please make zerg require an overlord to make a pool. i keep getting 6-pooled by zergs that happen to not spawn with an overlord | ||
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pi_rate_pir_ate
United States179 Posts
Roach range increase seems viable. Zealots are now 100% useless. Immortals are going to be more important. Thor, Banshee, Hellion is still very viable against Zerg. Especially for a while as every zerg will go hard roach. High ground vs. Zerg will be more important. There will be no more advanced canon walls for Protoss. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:00 lololol wrote: If you're not going to address what I posted, then don't quote me. Zerg can't proxy. Oh and, you can still bunker rush a hatch-first Zerg with a 11rax and bunker. | ||
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KillerPenguin
United States516 Posts
NA Protoss in Gold win 61% of their games against other races which is a huge imbalance and yet sc2ranks.com says NA Protoss in Gold win only 51.29% total and have the lowest win % of all 3 races. That is a HUGE difference and whatever adjustment they are doing for player skill would have to be very strange to account for that. On sc2ranks.com Terran have the highest win percentage in every league followed by Protoss then zerg in the higher leagues and that goes with common sense whereas in these Blizz statistics Terran is getting destroyed. In every league Terran has below 50% win percentage they are even losing significantly to Zergs in Plat which does not agree with common sense. Looking at these stats you would conclude that Terran is the worst race and yet myself and many others that I have talked to who play random sometimes would argue they have the easiest time as Terran and hardest as Zerg. Thank god they are not balancing based on these stats which I believe are wrong or they would be nerfing Protoss and buffing Terran. | ||
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sLiniss
United States849 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:01 SKtheAnathema wrote: yes, please make zerg require an overlord to make a pool. i keep getting 6-pooled by zergs that happen to not spawn with an overlord Zergs start with an ovie... so that wouldnt change a thing lol The supply depot -> rax seems kinda o.O | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 08 2010 06:58 Kazeyonoma wrote: 9 pylon probe can now walk over to terran base, see his supply depot building with no rax, harass the scv building that supply, and if he is successful at stopping the supply from coming, the barracks will be so late, 1 zealot will be at the terran door before the rax is even finished, let alone a marine is out. Oh, what's what? I should pull another scv out to stop the harassing probe? he'll just run, regenerate shield, while now i'm down TWO harvesters worth of economy, and everytime i trade out an scv to continue building, i lose mining time. as well as delayed OC timing now. What the fuck. I've NEVER opened against toss with anything but 10 depot 12 rax and this is not a problem at ALL. Yeah, you might have to switch out the SCVs that are building but you'd have to be alt tabbed to porn to actually let one die. And once your rine is out the probe will almost certainly die if he's still around. Whereas toss is utterly incapable of killing your SCV until he gets stalkers. Hell, I'm in gold league and I don't have these massive problems. TvP is my best matchup. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:03 Shikyo wrote: Zerg can't proxy. Oh and, you can still bunker rush a hatch-first Zerg with a 11rax and bunker. So both of you are trying to explain to me that the races are different, which is exactly what I said in my post? The races are different! They do not need to have anything that shares the same costs or tech paths or whatever. If some of these are even, that does not mean they have the same capabilities, because everything else is different. | ||
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DreXxiN
United States494 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:03 kojinshugi wrote: What the fuck. I've NEVER opened against toss with anything but 10 depot 12 rax and this is not a problem at ALL. Yeah, you might have to switch out the SCVs that are building but you'd have to be alt tabbed to porn to actually let one die. And once your rine is out the probe will almost certainly die if he's still around. Whereas toss is utterly incapable of killing your SCV until he gets stalkers. Hell, I'm in gold league and I don't have these massive problems. TvP is my best matchup. To be fair I don't think anyone in gold league is capable of really intelligent probe harass. | ||
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SKtheAnathema
United States885 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:03 sLiniss wrote: Zergs start with an ovie... so that wouldnt change a thing lol The supply depot -> rax seems kinda o.O i know  was failed sarcasm | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:03 kojinshugi wrote: What the fuck. I've NEVER opened against toss with anything but 10 depot 12 rax and this is not a problem at ALL. Yeah, you might have to switch out the SCVs that are building but you'd have to be alt tabbed to porn to actually let one die. And once your rine is out the probe will almost certainly die if he's still around. Whereas toss is utterly incapable of killing your SCV until he gets stalkers. Hell, I'm in gold league and I don't have these massive problems. TvP is my best matchup. i'm saying this WILL BECOME A PROBLEM. wow. | ||
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ckw
United States1018 Posts
On October 08 2010 01:40 Rhyme wrote: I really don't think the supply depot change is bad. It doesn't affect a standard build, but squashes cheese. It's especially fair when you think about how protoss needs a pylon before gateway, and zerg can't proxy at all. Yes but Protoss is Protoss and Zerg is Zerg and Terran is Terran. Why should they all have the same mechanics? And no Zerg can't proxy but they can 6/7/8 pool, so since Terran and Protoss need supply to stop cheese let's make a second Overlord mandatory to build a pool. Right? Oh yeah and while were at it, let's make it so Supply Depots have power lines that reach only so far and the SCV's have to hook up the power lines to buildings in range for them to work. Oh yeah and make it so Terran can scout with their supply depots and warp in marines where ever the said Supply Depot lands. Oh yeah and Zerg should have shields. | ||
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Rybka
United States836 Posts
On October 08 2010 06:53 Kazeyonoma wrote: but lets look at what we can generate out of those 3 scenarios. 1 gateway is up, and you get 1 zealot, capable of killing 3 zerglings, or 2 zergings if there's 4 that surround. same zealot can kill endless marines if they are not grouped up, probably 4 marines kiting can kill a zealot. 1 spawning pool is up, 6 zerglings, can kill many marines, and 1 zealot but not 2 zealots. 1 barracks is up, 1 marine can kill... nothing. behind a wall in, it can kill melee units but only as long as the wall in holds. how to play zerg versus terran: 6 pool to scare terran into throwing down early supply/rax/marine pump. both players econs are hurt but zerg has queen out earlier to power drones. tech switch to roach. annihilate terran who has nothing but marines. gg Not trying to troll here but... Since when the fuck do terrans push out with 1-3 marines against Zerg at 6 minutes or less? Never? K. And since when do good Zergs spend their first 3 larva on lings if no cheese is detected? Never? K. 6-pool is a joke. Zerg econ is behind by 5, count em, 1-2-3-4-5 drones to get a 6-pool hatch up... not to mention all of the minerals that they would mine. 6-pool is joke, and still will be even if you have to spend (GASP) 100 minerals a minute or two earlier in your build order. If this supply depot change goes through,Terran is in a somewhat reactionary stance for a very small window in the early game only. That's it. Welcome to what Zergs have dealt with since beta. Lastly, solutions were found to reaper rush before this nerf was announced, but that doesn't mean they still aren't a superior choice to anything Zerg has in the early/early-mid game on some maps. Each race should have nasty, tricky options at their disposal at each stage of the game, but not an option that's CLEARLY SUPERIOR to any option an opposing race might have. That's not an "interesting" early game, that's just dumb. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:05 DreXxiN wrote: To be fair I don't think anyone in gold league is capable of really intelligent probe harass. Didn't even once have that problem vs 1200 diamond Protoss players, or do you have to go even higher? If you do, I imagine you're good enough to deal with it. | ||
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
supply before barracks? uhm i dont agree The rest are pretty fine On October 08 2010 07:03 pi_rate_pir_ate wrote: Zealots are now 100% useless. what!? unless you mean in pvz only... | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On October 08 2010 07:08 Rybka wrote: Not trying to troll here but... Since when the fuck do terrans push out with 1-3 marines against Zerg at 6 minutes or less? Never? K. And since when do good Zergs spend their first 3 larva on lings if no cheese is detected? Never? K. 6-pool is a joke. Zerg econ is behind by 5, count em, 1-2-3-4-5 drones to get a 6-pool hatch up... not to mention all of the minerals that they would mine. 6-pool is joke, and still will be even if you have to spend (GASP) 100 minerals a minute or two earlier in your build order. If this supply depot change goes through,Terran is in a somewhat reactionary stance for a very small window in the early game only. That's it. Welcome to what Zergs have dealt with since beta. Lastly, solutions were found to reaper rush before this nerf was announced, but that doesn't mean they still aren't a superior choice to anything Zerg has in the early/early-mid game on some maps. Each race should have nasty, tricky options at their disposal at each stage of the game, but not an option that's CLEARLY SUPERIOR to any option an opposing race might have. That's not an "interesting" early game, that's just dumb. when did i even say anything about pushing out with 1-3 marines against zerg? and yes it does happen when we rush with an scv to build a bunker, but that wasn't even the point. i'm just not even going to respond to this thread anymore. | ||
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Thor-axe the Impaler
United States331 Posts
Course I'm a Zerg player so this is awesome for me. It looks rough for Terran players, but I think it's their turn anyway. | ||
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not a fan. I feel like this will reduce Terran cheese, but if Blizzard is limiting Terran cheese, they should probably try to limit P and Z cheese as well. I don't see that happening.
