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Thanks for the input LxRogue and Ecael!
My goal with this computer was initially to get a stable and fuss free all in all home computer. Ill do the usual word processing and stuff, but gaming will of course be the heavisest duty it'll see. It wont be connected to a tv direcly or anything like that and it wont be working as a fileserver. My budget was initially around 1000 usd.
Ill likely just go with the tip about the gfx card and buy the 5770. I wonder how the choice of gfx card affects the choice of mobo and so on?
I figured Ill go with AMD since they seem a bit cheaper and give more bang for the buck, but it was just an assumption. What do you think?
LxRogue, what parts do you think I could replace for cheaper alternatives? I would like to get a 1TB hdd if at all possible.
Ecael, what benefits would the AMD 95W range processors give? cheaper, faster? About overclocking. I've never done it but Im happy to try and do it if the rewards are there. Will the system freeze or hang a lot when I get my bearings on this or is it hassle free? Also what should I go for if I wont overclock( RAM / Cooling and so on).
The games I would like to run with the best graphics possible are: SC2, MW2, Dragon Age. Do you guys know how multiple processor cores work with all this? Is more just better, or is it irrelevant?
I have a sneaking suspicion that Im aiming a bit too high with this gear but Im not sure. I mean If I could get similar performance for say 700 usd then id go with that. Im not sure what price range gives more value over time.
PS, Another question: Is there any point in buying a highspeed (velociraptor hdd) as c: drive for the os and then install applications on another bigger and slower drive?
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The AMD 95W processor will...use only 95 W of power, which is nice because you don't need as large of a power supply. If you aren't going to overclock, then even stock cooling will probably be ok. If you want to overclock some, something like
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065&cm_re=212-_-35-103-065-_-Product
will probably be enough as I doubt you'd want to push your first OC'd computer THAT far. The 95 W AMD processor, I don't know if the pricing is available...so it might not be cheaper. Probably not at first.
Buying a 5770 won't affect your motherboard choice at all, and also your 550W power supply is more than enough for this card.
The hard drive is fine, I have that drive.
Honestly, if you're impatient, then buying a velociraptor or ssd is always an upgrade, but it really all depends on how much you hate waiting 10 seconds to load windows instead of 5 seconds (exaggeration).
How big is your monitor that you're using? What resolution are you going to run it at? If you're using a 19" monitor and can only run games at 1400x900 or whatever resolution, then buying a 5770 might be a bit of an overkill.
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Edit: I was typing this as KOFgokuon was replying. Thx for the input man. About the gfx overkill. Is it better to save on the gfxcard or the memory/cpu/mobo you think?
Excuse me while I spam away:
I had a little rethink and came up with this setup. I will avoid dual graphics cards since it seems that sometimes games will not function properly and also someone mentioned that the frames where stuttering on occasions. Safer to go with one gfx card I thought  Another new thing is that I want to use raid 0 to speed up the harddrives while still getting my 1TB. Its a bit unsafe but ill make backups of the documents and pictures that Im using anyway. It seems raid 0 vastly outperforms the other setups at the cost of data security. What do you think of raid 0?
The main thing that I need to reconsider is the amount of juice I want from the processor/memory/mobo. Maybe its a bit over the top for playing Starcraft 2? There is the issue of overclocking also. What would you do and do you think any of these parts are under or overperforming too much?
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0Ghz =220$
RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR3, 4gb =210$
GFX: CardSapphire Radeon HD 5770 =1GB 220$
MOBO: ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO =125$
HDD: WD Caviar SE16 500GB x2 (RAID 0) =135$
CPU Cooler: Akasa AK-967 CPU Air Cooler =65$
PSU: Corsair VX 550W PSU ATX 12V =100$
Chassi: Fractal Design Define R2 Black Pearl =110$
DVD: Lite-On DVD+RW burner =30$
Total = 1220$
If you have any tips on how I should shave off 200$ I'd be grateful. Granted I will wait 2-3 months to buy this setup. Maybe the prices will go down until then
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good god where are you buying this stuff? Your prices are ridiculously high
Unless you're actually based in Sweden, in that case I feel bad for you =/ Ah, swedish prices. Sorry if you can't get something more affordable =/
Your ram is still killing you though. Something like this is more than sufficient
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277&cm_re=ddr3_sdram-_-20-231-277-_-Product
Well for the GFX card you should always buy something so that it won't be the bottleneck on your computer. Again, it depends on what resolution you're planning on running your games. If you're running at 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 then you'll want something in the 5770+ market, but if you're only running at 1440x1900 then something lower will be more than enough, especially for SC2.
I don't know anything about raid, and with respect to an SSD/velociraptor, you'd be better off asking someone that has actually used those setups to see how much faster it really is. For me, it wasn't worth the extra $140+ or more it would cost to buy one
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Dude, the difference between those two memory setups are ridicilous! 125$ difference O_o. Its not for the same motherboard though. It seems to me the intel mobo/cpu/ram setup costs more than the amd one but this got me wondering.
Regarding the graphics card, Im planning on using my old lcd 19 inch still but maybe ill upgrade later on. For now it seems the gfx card is too much, but wont that just improve my fps to a safe number?
The prices are from a swedish net store called komplett.se. I do live in sweden and I havent found any store that is cheaper and can ship to my location :/ Someone, help?
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Well I looked at the documentation for your mother board, that ram isn't listed as supported by the motherboard, but the 2x1 gb version of the ram is, and so is the 3x2 gb version...so I guess use those at your own risk. Either way, I would think that you could cut down on the price of your ram some..but since I'm not accustomed to European prices, you'd have to ask someone else
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For raid 0, you really shouldn't be using Caviar Black, but the Raid Edition that WD pushed out separately. To be honest, for most purposes you are just as well off using just a normal setup.
Honestly, if you're impatient, then buying a velociraptor or ssd is always an upgrade, but it really all depends on how much you hate waiting 10 seconds to load windows instead of 5 seconds
Though we should keep in mind that such a 10 second will be repeated and repeated and repeated, and a couple of seconds for this program and that. For a group of people, that will be great.
Overclocking isn't too horribly hard if you are not looking to push your processor to the border of reason. However, you should do your research beforehand. For the most part, the stock voltage value used is well above the stock clock rate, so it is pretty possible for you to overclock to a certain extent and still push below the stock voltage, just something to consider.
Kaboo, not sure what you mean that "it isn't for the same motherboard", that was ddr3, it'll work on the mobo you had. Intel is more expensive processor wise usually. As for GPU, it is better to overkill a little, changing a monitor or even adding a second monitor in the setup is easy.
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Regarding Raid-0, are there any drawbacks other than the increased risk(doubled) of data loss? The perfomance should be doubled while still using all the diskspace available.
The WD5001ABYS that I think you are referring to is nearly double the price of the caviar hdd. Meh  I gather the benefits are increased data security?
Kaboo, not sure what you mean that "it isn't for the same motherboard", that was ddr3
I seems that memory should do fine. It just wasnt listed as compatible. Yay!
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I read some people complaining about Caviar Blacks in Raid before, and WD's suggestion was to go onto the more expensive RE, which is really more meant for professionals.
For drawback though, technically yeah, we'd consider it increased risk of data loss as well as it being generally annoying to manage raid arrays.
You'll definitely see performance increase with a Raid 0 setup, the question is more whether you need it. To me, stuff like raptor/ssd/raid are the first to cut after I whittled down expensive brand options. If you are not even going to keep that much stuff on your comp, you can even go down on hdd size (though the $/gb is about the same from 500~1tb really).
The question to address really is that of OC, the AMD stock cooler is actually decent enough to allow a bit of headroom on that, and it is more than likely that you'd just undervolt while keeping the processor on stock frequency, which can mean that you could just not bother with third party cooling. Would do good to think a little about it, does save a little.
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RAID is awesome at all, but I really do not like the idea of RAID 0. I don't think it's worth boost in speed to sacrifice data security. It's not like RAID 0 will make your games play faster anyways :/. If loading times really matter that much to you and you have the money lying around, I suggest eyeing the new Seagate Savvio series or whatever if you have a 6.0gb/s SAS mobo.
For OCing I would really suggest a 3rd party cooler. Sure people get to xGHz at y dec C, but not everybody can do that, and it depends on the motherboard you buy. If you spend more money on the motherboard, you can spend less on the cooler, but with a price limit, you probably aren't going to get the optimized mobo, so go with a cooler imo.
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I can't comment too much on RAID since i haven't used it personally. Hard drive prices are usually fairly consistent.
I've heard of plenty of people who overclock on the Phenom II stock coolers, so that's one thing you could skip to save money on. If you get a black edition, it comes with an unlocked multiplier, so even if you have zero experience with overclocking, you can do it very simply. Most modern games do support multiple cores, although I think that clock speed remains more important for gaming.
I would think you could also save money on a case. $110 seems like a lot, even with the increased prices.
Is there a good reason to buy a mobo with integrated graphics? I'm not too knowledgeable, but it seems like you're paying an extra $20 for something that you won't even use. I paid $70 for a Gigabyte 770 model, and it seems just as nice and functional as the slightly more expensive models.
It looks like amazon will ship to Europe, and TigerDirect (electronics site) seems to be affiliated with www.misco.se (although their prices will probably be similar to what you have).
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From what mahnini told me, a Phenom 955 BE overclocks best on AMD 790 chipsets. The onboard graphics are pretty much useless though.
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With Velociraptor 10k rpm 150gb drives, i run a RAID 0 array and the speed is great. It's such a difference between my Barracuda 1tb drives in raid 5, at least, in gaming.
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On January 28 2010 23:10 KOFgokuon wrote:
The AMD 95W processor will...use only 95 W of power, which is nice because you don't need as large of a power supply.
doesn't work that way! TDP only measures the amount of heat that the heatsink is supposed to be able to dissipate i think. while it may also mean lower voltage it doesn't necessarily mean it only takes 95W to power it. it takes upwards of 280W to power a fully loaded 955 for example and that only has a 125W TDP.
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Also saying the AMD 95w TDP is so nice is sad when you compared it to the TDP achieved by intel. The CPU can draw alot of power depending on socket and quality of the VRM, you can guss a bit more on gpu becuase you know exactly the max draw it can have as PCIex16 slot takes 75w a 6pin takes 75w a 6+2pin gets err 95w? i forget, but again that doesn't mean it will use that power.
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On January 29 2010 16:11 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2010 23:10 KOFgokuon wrote:
The AMD 95W processor will...use only 95 W of power, which is nice because you don't need as large of a power supply. doesn't work that way! TDP only measures the amount of heat that the heatsink is supposed to be able to dissipate i think. while it may also mean lower voltage it doesn't necessarily mean it only takes 95W to power it. it takes upwards of 280W to power a fully loaded 955 for example and that only has a 125W TDP.
eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_dissipation
Some CPUs, such as newer Intel-CPUs, have TDP defined as the maximum power consumption running worst case workloads and some, like CPUs from Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), have the maximum power consumption defined as TDP
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I would not get a velociraptor I have 2 friends that have gone through about 12 of them between the two because they shake themselves apart from spinning so fast I guess lol.
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On January 29 2010 23:53 Undisputed- wrote:
I would not get a velociraptor I have 2 friends that have gone through about 12 of them between the two because they shake themselves apart from spinning so fast I guess lol.
What are you talking about
Velociraptors have a perfectly acceptable HDD failure rate, they just tend to run a bit hotter than normal 7200rpm drives.
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On January 29 2010 23:59 ghermination wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2010 23:53 Undisputed- wrote:
I would not get a velociraptor I have 2 friends that have gone through about 12 of them between the two because they shake themselves apart from spinning so fast I guess lol. What are you talking about Velociraptors have a perfectly acceptable HDD failure rate, they just tend to run a bit hotter than normal 7200rpm drives.
Idk my roommate has gone through 6 of them because they keep dying.
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On January 28 2010 23:33 Kaboo wrote:Edit: I was typing this as KOFgokuon was replying. Thx for the input man. About the gfx overkill. Is it better to save on the gfxcard or the memory/cpu/mobo you think? Excuse me while I spam away: I had a little rethink and came up with this setup. I will avoid dual graphics cards since it seems that sometimes games will not function properly and also someone mentioned that the frames where stuttering on occasions. Safer to go with one gfx card I thought Another new thing is that I want to use raid 0 to speed up the harddrives while still getting my 1TB. Its a bit unsafe but ill make backups of the documents and pictures that Im using anyway. It seems raid 0 vastly outperforms the other setups at the cost of data security. What do you think of raid 0? The main thing that I need to reconsider is the amount of juice I want from the processor/memory/mobo. Maybe its a bit over the top for playing Starcraft 2? There is the issue of overclocking also. What would you do and do you think any of these parts are under or overperforming too much? CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0Ghz =220$ RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR3, 4gb =210$ GFX: CardSapphire Radeon HD 5770 =1GB 220$ MOBO: ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO =125$ HDD: WD Caviar SE16 500GB x2 (RAID 0) =135$ CPU Cooler: Akasa AK-967 CPU Air Cooler =65$ PSU: Corsair VX 550W PSU ATX 12V =100$ Chassi: Fractal Design Define R2 Black Pearl =110$ DVD: Lite-On DVD+RW burner =30$ Total = 1220$ If you have any tips on how I should shave off 200$ I'd be grateful. Granted I will wait 2-3 months to buy this setup. Maybe the prices will go down until then
unless your planning to do some overclocking
RAM: way to expensive even for overclock memory, get something cheaper
GFX: nice, thou within 2 months AMD will release the hd 5830 just something to keep in mind
MOBO: you won't need the igp, get a 770 chipset (cheaper) or a 790x chipset (overclock + crossfire)
HDD: what's the point of putting 2 slow disks in raid 0 (also if the raid controller gives up on you, your pc will be fucked). try to get a hdd with 500gb platters (samsung F3 spinpoint, seagate 7200.12 etc....)
CPU cooler: get the mugen 2 even if you're not going to overclock its very quiet and allot cheaper.
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EPT
