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On February 22 2009 08:46 haz wrote:
no he was never a top wc3 player, i've never even heard of him hes just a fanboy
edit: Guys stop flaming so much theres no need at all and you're giving starcraft players a bad reputation, you might even put them off investing in starcraft/starcraft 2 all together which will only hurt eSports imo if you don't tone it down
This type of investment actually hurts esports....
They burnt themselves.
If anything this is the school of hard knocks for how not to run an esports company.
Obviously they realize that sc2 is going to be the biggest esports phenom of the next few years (at least) and they were opening to casually spend money to get involved.
GJ, they are definately involved now and they have soiled there name as a thoughtless entity.
On a brighter note there stupid stunt actually got them 100x more coverage here then they would have before.
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From a PM joN sent.
On February 22 2009 09:17 joN wrote:
Hello,
I appreciate you taking the time to apologize on behalf of the community, but this market isn't one we will be pursuing in the future.
Take e-STRO for example, say they went out and tried to give a new player a shot, while at the same time work for the company and help promote in different areas of gaming; if that should ever happen, I highly doubt any community member would judge their decision to do so, just many upset because they were not chosen themselves.
Us however, we receive nothing but hate mail, letters from community members trash talking because we are new to the scene. Not the best way to welcome a large organization in to help build and support players across the world.
We thought Counter-Strike fans were tough, but Starcraft takes it to that extra level.
ToaD will also be released as his work is no longer needed.
Thanks anyways for the kind words, we'll be sticking to the North American and European scene from now on.
CLIFFNOTES: French D+ becomse sponsored player, TL gets upset, TL members act like douchebags, French player ToaD is released, FragDominant won't touch sc again.
At least ToaD won't be representing foreigners, but now FD have no interest in sc gaming.
I think the bm can stop now?
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On February 22 2009 01:13 PaeZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2009 22:53 Chanted wrote:
Give the poor guy a rest here. I know if I got the opportunity to do something like this, I would go for it, even if im "only" D+. This is between him and his sponsors/team. They knew what skill level he was at, and they still recruited him due to avaiability, since he is allready in Korea. To say that he stole someone elses chance to go to Korea is just pure stupidity. If you want to jump that wagon, Nony "stole" someone elses chance as well, but I would love to see you try to bash on him..
Maybe he isnt the most skilled player, but if they think Starcraft 2, he might be good there. He has tons of dedication and courage it looks like, so who knows, he might be a really good sc2 player, allthough I dont think he will accomplish much as a foreigner in Korea, but nobody has accomplished anything major there for the last 3-5 years anyways.. Thats because Nony didnt steal anything from anyone, he won a tournament and EARN his spot, so your comparison is stupid. We cannot give this guy nor the organization a rest cause this is stupidity and ignorance at its best.
Im not gonna bother to argue all that much, but winning the Spirit tournement wasnt neccassarely the ticket into Korea, but it helped alot. He then quit Korea after 1 month or so, and so he therefore "stole" the spot from say Cloud, who might have still been in Korea, allthough we will never know now I guess. This guy saw a chance, and seized it, and I bet 90% of the haters would do the same.
Who are all of you to set the standard on whats acceptable or not when it comes to recruiting players. The team made a choice, he surely isnt the best player, but just give it a rest and see what happens
PS: If he did indeed Abuse on iccup, that is sucky indeed
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If you buy into his bullshit of trying to turn this back around at TL and play this guilt trip then you're retarded.
FD had interest in BW, they just approached it in the stupidest way you could POSSIBLY approach it. If the President fucks up, the American people are going to call his ass out on it. What's he gonna do, tell the country "well, since you guys were mean to me I'm not going to serve your interests anymore" ? Bullshit.
If they didn't want this kind of negative publicity, they shouldn't have pulled an amateur-hour stunt like this. Sure maybe TL beat them up over this - but they deserved it. They deserve every piece of negative publicity because that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
Even his PM is stupid: "Take e-STRO for example, say they went out and tried to give a new player a shot, while at the same time work for the company and help promote in different areas of gaming; if that should ever happen, I highly doubt any community member would judge their decision to do so, just many upset because they were not chosen themselves."
eSTRO wouldn't pull some random kid off the street and be like "HEY LETS GIVE YOU A SHOT TO BECOME A PRO" ... eSTRO didn't even invite IdrA or NonY without a shit-load of thought and consideration, and they won "invite" tournaments. The processes of bringing them over to Korea was a long and deliberated process.
Here's how I imagine FD came to their decision to hire ToaD.
FD Management1 (A): "Oh man! Starcraft 2 is coming out soon, this game seems like it has a TON of hype surrounding it"
FD Management2 (B): "Hey, did you know there was a Starcraft 1 "
A: "Oooooh ya! I heard about that game. Apparently in Korea it's pretty big."
B: "Maybe we should get in on that, seems like there is money to be made."
A: "Oh ok ya let's do that... so I guess there's a bunch of stuff going on in Korea, let's look there"
**somewhere along the process they find ToaD**
B: "Alright so ToaD is going to Korea to study, let's have him practice real hard and be our new pro gamer."
A: "Fuck that sounds like a great idea... he will be the first of an army of FD pro Starcraft gamers. We'll take the world by storm."
GJ FD!
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On February 22 2009 08:46 haz wrote:
no he was never a top wc3 player, i've never even heard of him hes just a fanboy
edit: Guys stop flaming so much theres no need at all and you're giving starcraft players a bad reputation, you might even put them off investing in starcraft/starcraft 2 all together which will only hurt eSports imo if you don't tone it down
Oh right I mixed him up with ToD. You were extremely right about the fanboy thing: http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/15771-I_think_Im_one_of_the_biggest_fans
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LOL,. that douche bag deleted my posts.
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xeris, I like how they also blamed our reactions to there decisions on them being new to the scene.
Sorry if MyM went to clan x17 and said "Ok you three have over 200 melee wins, your in" I would laugh at them the same but of course they never would.
Yes quiting while you are behind is a good idea.
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Ya it's really stupid. No professional organization would ever walk into a situation so blindly. Honestly, someone should get fired for this. Such a huge negative publicity for them, hopefully they can delete all traces of this before word reaches their sponsors and they get dropped, loool. Nah I don't think it's that bad.
It's sad and funny at the same time, but they totally deserved all the shit they got.
Funny how ToaD is also listed as a "player" on their team roster. nice scout !
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On February 22 2009 09:17 DREAM-JOY wrote:From a PM joN sent. Show nested quote +On February 22 2009 09:17 joN wrote:
Hello,
I appreciate you taking the time to apologize on behalf of the community, but this market isn't one we will be pursuing in the future.
Take e-STRO for example, say they went out and tried to give a new player a shot, while at the same time work for the company and help promote in different areas of gaming; if that should ever happen, I highly doubt any community member would judge their decision to do so, just many upset because they were not chosen themselves.
Us however, we receive nothing but hate mail, letters from community members trash talking because we are new to the scene. Not the best way to welcome a large organization in to help build and support players across the world.
We thought Counter-Strike fans were tough, but Starcraft takes it to that extra level.
ToaD will also be released as his work is no longer needed.
Thanks anyways for the kind words, we'll be sticking to the North American and European scene from now on.
Good.
Is this guy so ignorant (by the way it is worded) to realize that eSTRO has tried this (bringing a foreigner in) before? As much as I am not an IdrA fan, the kid is still over there. And he earned his spot by proving he was the top choice. He didn't just stumble into his deal because "my girlfriend studies in Korea, so I be progamer, ok?" NonY earned his spot over there, and for whatever reason he decided to come back, he still earned his spot (and fucking proved he belonged too - 2nd place in his first courage). What did this kid do? Abuse a ladder to make them think he could be a scout.
DREAM-JOY, don't try simply turning this on "TeamLiquid". I support everyone who posted there letting these guys know what's up, but Xeris is such an involved figure in the scene that you can not pin down to "TL raging" and WorldCommunist8 is from SC2GG. So don't say that TeamLiquid brought this down. The StarCraft community as a whole said "What the fuck dude."
Oh by the way, a little snippet from before they closed the thread:
A D+ skill leveled player can have the same knowledge in the community as the very best; no different then the average fan base in any game.
I don't think he really understands that a D+ player will not be able to scout out top talent. Sure, I (being low D) can realize that sAviOr is good, but I couldn't properly "scout" him.
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Yeah.
I mean if they picked one of frances top bw gamers (whoever that maybe) nobody could really argue.
How hard would it be to get in contact with tasteless/artosis and get in touch with those involved in the scene and getting a foothold.
There scout/player/early aprils fool was entirely a player and the are lying threw there teeth about his function.
There is no 2009 circut of tournaments in korea .... how can they deny he was going to 'play' in those non-existant tournaments.
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Maybe they thought CEVO had a section of BW tournaments in Korea, loool! O_O!
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I really don't get why everyone has so much rage about this. Calm the fuck down.
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51497 Posts
they should have picked up ex-mym while they had the chance hehe
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On February 22 2009 10:36 Ry-Masta-T wrote:
I really don't get why everyone has so much rage about this. Calm the fuck down.
Honestly I think a lot of koreaphiles are jealous of the french kid I think. Honestly who cares if he calls himself a pro starcraft player on this awful multigaming teams dime
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because it's an insult to the game that's why. why do people give a shit about pro baseball players taking steroids? because it's just plain wrong.
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United States7488 Posts
To make a comparison:
Xeris... I'd like you to travel the US and scout some basketball players so that I can maybe build up a team to compete with teams like the Celtics and Lakers. My baking company will sponsor you for your efforts.
I expect to receive positive feedback from the pro-basketball fans and broadcasting networks like ESPN and such. I also think you are a good choice since I think I one time remebered that you are a fan of basketball. I am placing trust that you'd know what your doing because I'm not really that into basketball and didn't take a lot of effort learning anything new about it before deciding to offer this position to you.
I don't see how such a thing would be good for basketball (and likewise the same with this situation in Starcraft). It only makes a mockery of things and is overall bad publicity for the company and the sport.
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Canada9720 Posts
On February 22 2009 09:17 DREAM-JOY wrote:From a PM joN sent. Show nested quote +On February 22 2009 09:17 joN wrote:
Hello,
I appreciate you taking the time to apologize on behalf of the community, but this market isn't one we will be pursuing in the future.
Take e-STRO for example, say they went out and tried to give a new player a shot, while at the same time work for the company and help promote in different areas of gaming; if that should ever happen, I highly doubt any community member would judge their decision to do so, just many upset because they were not chosen themselves.
Us however, we receive nothing but hate mail, letters from community members trash talking because we are new to the scene. Not the best way to welcome a large organization in to help build and support players across the world.
We thought Counter-Strike fans were tough, but Starcraft takes it to that extra level.
ToaD will also be released as his work is no longer needed.
Thanks anyways for the kind words, we'll be sticking to the North American and European scene from now on. CLIFFNOTES: French D+ becomse sponsored player, TL gets upset, TL members act like douchebags, French player ToaD is released, FragDominant won't touch sc again. At least ToaD won't be representing foreigners, but now FD have no interest in sc gaming. I think the bm can stop now?
your cliff notes is a little skewed. this moron is actually comparing his "teams" "acquisition" of toad to estro bringing over players like idra and nony. like ROFL WHAT. he doesn't have a fucking clue
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After I realized how badly we flamed Frag, I'm disappointed by how TL members reacted to the whole situation. Come on guys :\ TL is our bastion, so I didn't have a problem with ppl ranting here, but honestly, too many ppl went out of their way to TOTALLY shit on their forums. Thanks to DREAM-JOY for at least trying to put it in a civil context.
If someone came into TL and started talking shit about Nony, I'm pretty sure we'd insta-ban his ass. Of course, we'd probably think "wtf nony is awesome" but that's probably how they think about sponsoring Toad. Sure, we think they're retarded, but they must have had some reasons. Also, their replies on their forums were VERY civil and understanding. I wonder if TL would react similarly.
Now, on the topic of convincing them not to sponsor this person because it would be bad for esports and Starcraft -- was shitting on their forum really the best way? What if someone came and shit on our forums all the time. There's always the option to step up the flame (which we're so good at) if they don't seem to respond in kind.
To be clear: I don't agree with what they're doing. I think sending out ToaD was a bad decision. It just reeks of a pure publicity stunt. The very least they could have done is just say that ToaD was a scout to begin with, or show some evidence of knowing what they're doing by admitting that ToaD hasn't been proven to be a good player.
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EPT
