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On July 01 2024 06:41 Woosixion wrote:C'mon Maxpax you can't be THAT ugly just show up one time to silence the haterz 
He would be more inclined to quit competing in SC2 altogether than do that. And if so that's fine with me.
Maxpax does it his way. If event organizers ban him from entering offline-event qualifiers, he switches to online-only events. Nobody on this earth will ever be able to force Maxpax to publically show himself at an Esports event.
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MaxPax only does what ESL allows him to do, so its up to ESL to handle this case, although I have no faith in them trying to do that. Personally, I understand the logic behind people saying that MaxPax should not be allowed to compete if he potentially hurt the chance of other players in EU scene but they are nice enough to not really care about it. Maybe if the next time MaxPax doesnt play in ESL Master global offline stage, just take his EPT points (not the money) from the EU regional and give it to the next one, or re-distribute it to multiple players who ranked behind him in the event.
I also understand people are saying other players have skipped the offline events before, but I think we are talking about the recursive case for multiple years of non-participation. So something more systematic should be done to address this issue. Like I said, MaxPax isnt at the fault, its the system that ESL run and their lack of response to this matter is annoying to me.
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France12911 Posts
This brought up interesting discussions! :D
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Northern Ireland26315 Posts
On July 01 2024 10:01 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 02:18 argonautdice wrote:On July 01 2024 00:49 Balnazza wrote:
Spiral The archon of Spirit and Serral? In my defense: I was reading up on some stuff for Warcraft 3 before that and there is a WC3 player called Spiral. So I claim innocence! As for the discussion going on: I can see where people are coming from. It is a shame that one of the best players in the world doesn't join the really big tournaments. I know people tend to just assume MaxPax wouldn't perform at all, but lets be a bit optimistic here. Maybe he would in fact be an amazing offline player, changing the course of SC2...we will never know. And I honestly think, if he misses EWC, we can confidently say "never", because if potentially 400K won't motivate him, nothing will. That being said - of course it is completly up to him. As Miz said, he isn't a "dancing monkey". And I don't think it is immoral of him to participate in ESL Europe. It's not a "qualifier", it is a regional event that just also happens to give out EPT Points. If you think ESL Europe is a "qualifier", I kindly remind you that GSL would be one, too. Same with the ESL Cups - in the end, they are just Cups that happen to give out some points. As far as I know, MaxPax has never played a qualifier that was just a qualifier to then not show up. I think what mostly agitates people about MaxPax is the fact that he isn't telling the audience why he doesn't show up. And to be fair: If he doesn't want to, people shouldn't really probe. Gentle reminder that people probed the LoL-player Upset so much about him leaving his team at worlds that his own wife eventually just bursted out that she got sexually abused and that this as the reason he had to come back. In WC3, I remember two cases of players who wouldn't travel. Satiini (who also played SC2) had a horrible fear of traveling. Sadly that also let to him letting his teams down multiple times, when he promised to show up and eventually didn't. The other case was Space, who had...can't remember the name of the illness, but basically a muscle-degeneration, so sadly he often just wasn't able to travel, however much his teammates tried to make it happen (he sadly passed away a few years after his career ended). But in either of those cases, we still knew the players names and the reasons they wouldn't travel. Satiini was apparently a bit of a dick about it, but no one ever blamed Space for not being able to attend tournaments. But with MaxPax, we don't even know his full name. And as much as I think about it, I really can't think of a reason why a danish person would be that mysterious about himself. Super-strict parents? Crown-Prince? I really don't know. Anyway, as I said, eventually it is his decision. I just hope the player-camp knew beforehand that he won't attend, so Spirit knows to make travel-arrangement while one more EU-player can hope to play in the qualifiers in a few days.
Yeah providing notice is given is important in terms of respecting his fellow pros, but this pretty much.
From what I gather some pros have at least some interactions with him and perhaps more insight. But I don’t recall anyone gossiping about him. Be it respecting his privacy if they do know things,
or not having an issue with him skipping online events.
Sure the ideal would be him playing offline, it’d be cool. I think the current situation is probably the next best option. The European regionals have a real high level Protoss player, it raises the standards and levels of competition there.
And hey, it does add some intrigue and interest, some mystique as a narrative. How many other eSports scenes have a reasonably high tier pro whose name isn’t even known? That question isnt rhetorical, but a genuine inquiry as I don’t follow others
I think the one issue is that just awarding the next down after MaxPax isn’t 100% fair, brackets and matchup variance. Sure he’s decent across the board but he’s a PvP god, so you could see him knocking out a Toss early who’d perhaps be favoured against Max’s next opponent.
Hey it’s a non-ideal situation all round as I said. But there are almost innumerable personal circumstances, or indeed psychological conditions that are a factor and some comments here have been profoundly disappointing to read.
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France12911 Posts
On July 01 2024 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Ok and I'd like you to show up to a comedy show and make jokes for us because this is a very funny take. Don't want to? Too bad!! You're obligated!! Seriously who do you think you are to demand what someone does with their life, especially when it's simply for your own entertainment? How incredibly entitled, vain, and selfish. Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 06:16 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 06:11 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Classic entitlement at its best Max pax doesn’t owe it anyone to show up to play. Based on your logic. Shame on Maru for not showing up and playing the weekly Cup cause he “owes” it the public But based on your posting history, I ain’t surprised with your mentality Don't sign up for things where you are supposed to go LAN afterwards if you don't intend to actually go to the LAN if you qualify. It's fine if you don't want to go to LAN, then don't participate at all in the qualifiers and stuff. Some players such as the Chinese players who really wanted to go, but couldn't make it due to visa issues / other problems were prevented to play despite them wanting to come, and this guy is wasting slots over and over again, in the latest years of the scene. That's a pity. 1) No one is "supposed to" show up to another tournament they qualified to. Where in the rules does it say players are required to, or supposed to show up to any other events they qualify for? 2) Chinese players having challenges trying to attend or qualify is not Maxpax's problem. 3) No one got their spots stolen. Maxpax isn't wasting any slots. The slots are redistributed to other players based on an already defined system that the players are aware of. The money that he doesn't want is going to someone else that does want it. Where's the shame in that? Seems like the tournament organizer accounted for and allowed players to decide whether to accept their invite to EWC. Good thing the tournament organizer also defined a system that would redistribute any declined invites! Would you say shame on any other player who decided to decline, such as if they have issues competing in a tournament hosted by the Saudi state, or because they have concerns about their personal safety? I'm genuinely curious.
It’s not for my own entertainment, personally I don’t care about MaxPax nor his games. He just shouldn’t be allowed in tournaments since he obviously doesn’t respect the rules over and over, and fines aren’t enough of a deterrent to prevent him from competing in the online portion of the event. But yeah other people (mainly protoss fans, etc.) would like to see MaxPax in the live events.
As for the « dancing monkey » metaphor, it’s kinda weird: monkeys don’t owe us anything either.
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On July 01 2024 08:54 Mizenhauer wrote:
Maxpax isn't a dancing monkey, he doesn't owe anyone anything.
who knows, they could be
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On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity
He doesn't owe anybody anything.
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France12911 Posts
On July 01 2024 15:17 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity He doesn't owe anybody anything.
Technically he does, someone gotta pay the fines over and over again for going against the rules.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Tournament rules are another matter and down to the tournament organiser.
I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play
This part is the insane take
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I'm mostly blaming ESL of course. Should have just banned him  from these tours after 2 or 3 times of this happening.
But here we go again, so.. whatever..
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Heated discussion here, but anyways - this is still a roumor right? Or uThermal is considered 100% solid source?
Could not find anything from MaxPax or organisers.
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Just to clarify, in the past has Maxpax been fined simply for declining to participate in things he's qualified for?
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Are people really advocating that MaxPax shouldn't play in tournaments like the ESL Weeklies - which are standalone tournaments in their own right - just because they award points that might qualify him for a future tournament that he doesn't intend to play?
That's insane.
MaxPax doesn't owe anything to the viewing audience, and if players are upset about it then that's a skill issue.
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France12911 Posts
On July 01 2024 15:59 Cyro wrote:Tournament rules are another matter and down to the tournament organiser. Show nested quote +I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play This part is the insane take
I mean yeah, this part is the good one, it sparks up discussion 
But it's a stark reality though, people want to see performance.
Some people will want to see MaxPax play live and fail, some just want to see what he looks like, others want to know why he was so mysterious until now, some want to see him succeed. But the community is curious about MaxPax, and people at large enjoy watching.
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Is MaxPax the last young blood talent we will ever see?
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Northern Ireland26315 Posts
On July 01 2024 16:32 FataLe wrote:
Is MaxPax the last young blood talent we will ever see?
Quite possibly, if they are indeed young!
Outside of early WoL carnage where the game was being fleshed out, and the Kespa crowd hitting the ground running quite quickly I don’t recall any player becoming a top player in less than a few years minimum. And there was always some kind of hype, or prominent players would mention that there’s this very talented kid coming through. People sad enough to almost live their entire existence on places like TL might be aware of some names etc.
Right now I’m not seeing a young player who’s made a little noise, and is in that kind of zone where you start to get notable results in weeklies, maybe the odd tourney qualification and are poised to take that next step. And taking that next step isn’t usually that quick either.
Not being pessimistic but if SC2 as we know it is on a timer of a couple of years, for the next big talent to pop out they’d need to get really damn good at an almost unprecedented rate.
Hey all it takes is one person! Maybe some GM level father or mother thinks it would be a good use of time, energy and pain to train their youngster to be an SC2 prodigy.
I think this will be an interesting area, it is now but even more so moving onwards. eSports is established enough now that parents who missed that dream through timing, being too old when it got going can now live out their dreams vicariously through their children like they do in regular sports!
As a parent myself it’s not a practice I approve of, but you may see some absolutely ridiculous gamers emerge through it
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On July 01 2024 16:32 FataLe wrote:
Is MaxPax the last young blood talent we will ever see?
 Iba
Maybe.
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Lol at someone saying Artosis is to blame for saying in-person tournies matter more. They always have- and Artosis is not the originator.
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Damn, insane someone thinks someone with talent MUST entretain regular folks with that talent and that the regular folks are owed that.
My lost respect for Poopi just went to Maxpax who has to deal with this type of people.
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Was he actually fined for declining an invitation? Never heard about that.
For me the only thing I really don't understand about this is the team/ sponsor that is sticking with him and paying salary.
Other than that, why wouldn't he be allowed to play? So many weird and hateful takes in here... shame on you guys
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EPT
