On July 13 2024 09:22 tskarzyn wrote: Ban MaxPax from online events until we've seen him play with his camera on. He is almost certainly violating some tournament rule. I'd bet he is using AI but wouldn't be surprised if he's an alt account for another pro.
What other pro plays like him?
He may not yet be bringing the pain in offline tournaments but he’s probably got the best PvP out there right now.
What other pro would be smurfing under an assumed name, only to play better in a matchup than they do on their main?
Just a ridiculous comment. It’s good enough for ESL, his fellow pros seem to think he’s a legit player, he’s not appeared on camera but has spoken pretty regularly over a span.
Seems a hell of a bit to be doing if you’re well, not who you say you are.
MaxPax demonstrably plays like a human plays, if it’s an AI whoever did it did a better job than Google’s well-funded DeepMind team, does that seem at all likely?
It seems equally ridiculous that he'd spend most of his waking hours playing a game, and then proceed to forfeit every opportunity to make real money playing it for #reasons. "He doesn't eat at restaurants. He has social anxiety!" "His parents don't want him to show his face!" "His identity is super duper secret!"
Let's be real. He is not on the level. Maybe he is hacking. Maybe Maru wants to fuck around with Protoss and has a buddy in Denmark who is fronting for him. Maybe it's 10x easier to write an SC2 AI today than in 2019 and he is a talented coder. (There are AI bot competitions for sc2.) Whatever he's doing, he is only able to do it online when no one is watching.
I love nerds, but as the joke goes... you see someone flip heads 10x in a row, you'll say the odds they do it again are 50%. Someone with a bit of common sense sees it, and they'll know it's a weighted die.
If the maybe is ‘maybe an SC2 bot exists that is superior than what one if the world’s foremost companies in the space managed to make’ or ‘maybe someone is smurfing to a very high level, from Europe but they’ve also played against all of Europe’s top players at some stage’ those aren’t very common-sense observations.
I could be wrong. Does he play with his camera on when tournaments require it? If not, why not?
Second question. Why does he never attend LANs? This has historically been a very good tell that the player in question was cheating.
On July 13 2024 09:22 tskarzyn wrote: Ban MaxPax from online events until we've seen him play with his camera on. He is almost certainly violating some tournament rule. I'd bet he is using AI but wouldn't be surprised if he's an alt account for another pro.
What other pro plays like him?
He may not yet be bringing the pain in offline tournaments but he’s probably got the best PvP out there right now.
What other pro would be smurfing under an assumed name, only to play better in a matchup than they do on their main?
Just a ridiculous comment. It’s good enough for ESL, his fellow pros seem to think he’s a legit player, he’s not appeared on camera but has spoken pretty regularly over a span.
Seems a hell of a bit to be doing if you’re well, not who you say you are.
MaxPax demonstrably plays like a human plays, if it’s an AI whoever did it did a better job than Google’s well-funded DeepMind team, does that seem at all likely?
It seems equally ridiculous that he'd spend most of his waking hours playing a game, and then proceed to forfeit every opportunity to make real money playing it for #reasons. "He doesn't eat at restaurants. He has social anxiety!" "His parents don't want him to show his face!" "His identity is super duper secret!"
Let's be real. He is not on the level. Maybe he is hacking. Maybe Maru wants to fuck around with Protoss and has a buddy in Denmark who is fronting for him. Maybe it's 10x easier to write an SC2 AI today than in 2019 and he is a talented coder. (There are AI bot competitions for sc2.) Whatever he's doing, he is only able to do it online when no one is watching.
I love nerds, but as the joke goes... you see someone flip heads 10x in a row, you'll say the odds they do it again are 50%. Someone with a bit of common sense sees it, and they'll know it's a weighted die.
If the maybe is ‘maybe an SC2 bot exists that is superior than what one if the world’s foremost companies in the space managed to make’ or ‘maybe someone is smurfing to a very high level, from Europe but they’ve also played against all of Europe’s top players at some stage’ those aren’t very common-sense observations.
I could be wrong. Does he play with his camera on when tournaments require it? If not, why not?
Second question. Why does he never attend LANs? This has historically been a very good tell that the player in question was cheating.
User was temp banned for this post.
chill with the constant conspiracy theory shit (OP has a history)... please don't take this ban as part of a bigger conspiracy
On July 13 2024 09:22 tskarzyn wrote: Ban MaxPax from online events until we've seen him play with his camera on. He is almost certainly violating some tournament rule. I'd bet he is using AI but wouldn't be surprised if he's an alt account for another pro.
What other pro plays like him?
He may not yet be bringing the pain in offline tournaments but he’s probably got the best PvP out there right now.
What other pro would be smurfing under an assumed name, only to play better in a matchup than they do on their main?
Just a ridiculous comment. It’s good enough for ESL, his fellow pros seem to think he’s a legit player, he’s not appeared on camera but has spoken pretty regularly over a span.
Seems a hell of a bit to be doing if you’re well, not who you say you are.
MaxPax demonstrably plays like a human plays, if it’s an AI whoever did it did a better job than Google’s well-funded DeepMind team, does that seem at all likely?
It seems equally ridiculous that he'd spend most of his waking hours playing a game, and then proceed to forfeit every opportunity to make real money playing it for #reasons. "He doesn't eat at restaurants. He has social anxiety!" "His parents don't want him to show his face!" "His identity is super duper secret!"
Let's be real. He is not on the level. Maybe he is hacking. Maybe Maru wants to fuck around with Protoss and has a buddy in Denmark who is fronting for him. Maybe it's 10x easier to write an SC2 AI today than in 2019 and he is a talented coder. (There are AI bot competitions for sc2.) Whatever he's doing, he is only able to do it online when no one is watching.
I love nerds, but as the joke goes... you see someone flip heads 10x in a row, you'll say the odds they do it again are 50%. Someone with a bit of common sense sees it, and they'll know it's a weighted die.
If the maybe is ‘maybe an SC2 bot exists that is superior than what one if the world’s foremost companies in the space managed to make’ or ‘maybe someone is smurfing to a very high level, from Europe but they’ve also played against all of Europe’s top players at some stage’ those aren’t very common-sense observations.
I could be wrong. Does he play with his camera on when tournaments require it? If not, why not?
Second question. Why does he never attend LANs? This has historically been a very good tell that the player in question was cheating.
Real question is: Why do you need to know if ESL is clearly okay with what is happening? Don't get me wrong, I understand why you *want* to know. I want to know, too, I'm curious as the rest of you. But do you *need* to know? Why is "ESL and every other pro is okay with the situation and trust that MaxPax is legit" not good enough for you?
Just yesterday I've read an article in which a sport-physician complained how little sports organisation care about doctor-patient-confidentiality. In that particular case, a football club lust blurted out that they didn't sign a new player for now because they detected a knee-injury on him. They told that to the world about a player who isn't even on their payroll yet - which might lead to some legal trouble.
Yes, maybe ESL should make a statement for next season clarifying that they trust in MaxPaxs legitimacy, but otherwise...there is really no issue
On July 13 2024 09:22 tskarzyn wrote: Ban MaxPax from online events until we've seen him play with his camera on. He is almost certainly violating some tournament rule. I'd bet he is using AI but wouldn't be surprised if he's an alt account for another pro.
What other pro plays like him?
He may not yet be bringing the pain in offline tournaments but he’s probably got the best PvP out there right now.
What other pro would be smurfing under an assumed name, only to play better in a matchup than they do on their main?
Just a ridiculous comment. It’s good enough for ESL, his fellow pros seem to think he’s a legit player, he’s not appeared on camera but has spoken pretty regularly over a span.
Seems a hell of a bit to be doing if you’re well, not who you say you are.
MaxPax demonstrably plays like a human plays, if it’s an AI whoever did it did a better job than Google’s well-funded DeepMind team, does that seem at all likely?
It seems equally ridiculous that he'd spend most of his waking hours playing a game, and then proceed to forfeit every opportunity to make real money playing it for #reasons. "He doesn't eat at restaurants. He has social anxiety!" "His parents don't want him to show his face!" "His identity is super duper secret!"
Let's be real. He is not on the level. Maybe he is hacking. Maybe Maru wants to fuck around with Protoss and has a buddy in Denmark who is fronting for him. Maybe it's 10x easier to write an SC2 AI today than in 2019 and he is a talented coder. (There are AI bot competitions for sc2.) Whatever he's doing, he is only able to do it online when no one is watching.
I love nerds, but as the joke goes... you see someone flip heads 10x in a row, you'll say the odds they do it again are 50%. Someone with a bit of common sense sees it, and they'll know it's a weighted die.
If the maybe is ‘maybe an SC2 bot exists that is superior than what one if the world’s foremost companies in the space managed to make’ or ‘maybe someone is smurfing to a very high level, from Europe but they’ve also played against all of Europe’s top players at some stage’ those aren’t very common-sense observations.
I could be wrong. Does he play with his camera on when tournaments require it? If not, why not?
Second question. Why does he never attend LANs? This has historically been a very good tell that the player in question was cheating.
User was temp banned for this post.
I’m sure plenty of people here can go into the long list of reasons this isn’t even conceivable.. but maybe just listen to his fellow pros. If they are okay with the situation and they have hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line, maybe spend your energy on something else?
I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
On July 25 2024 07:13 itsdaniel wrote: I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
I think it’s reasonable to have doubts and express them like you did: being specific so we can take a look at the particular game etc. ; without just throwing a one liner.
I think a good parallel to the MaxPax situation (regarding cheating allegations) would be the young guy in chess world who was accused of cheating multiple times by well known chess figures like Magnus Carlsen and others (you can try to search for it with the anal plug + magnus carlsen + chess + cheater on Google for example).
In that case, it is hard to know if the guy really is cheating, or if Magnus and others just « don’t like » playing against him / think he is cheating but not always, etc.
The fact that other pros don’t say publicly that they think he is cheating could also be because either way, they enjoy the « challenge » of having to play versus a potential hybrid human + tool player.
There are several ways to assist oneself when playing StarCraft, so the « degree » of tool assistance that would be considered legal or illegal is kinda a grey area. The windows registry tricks for rapid fire could be considered cheating. « Streamhack » has been made illegal so there are delays etc. But it could be « simple » things like having a second screen with potential timers on it, or whatever. A « weird » setup.
On July 25 2024 07:13 itsdaniel wrote: I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
If you're... insinuating... that it's... an AI playing... check this twitch VOD: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2204386781 In case the twitch VOD disappears, PiG made commentary over another VOD on YouTube: In my opinion, he's just super quick and precise, and sometimes he makes mistakes, he's very good like Clem.
On July 25 2024 07:13 itsdaniel wrote: I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
MaxPax has been streaming his ESL runs recently.
Anyone who genuinely thinks that he's hacking (or whatever) should watch those streams and prove themselves wrong.
The windows registry tricks for rapid fire could be considered cheating.
I unironically think that this is cheating, or that it's at least something that players shouldn't reasonably be expected to do. It certainly isn't something that Blizzard (via their designated balance council) should be designing the game around. From my point of view, and to choose just one of many examples, the fact that Terran is almost entirely reliant on rapid fire in late game TvZ demonstrates just how ridiculous Legacy of the Void has become from a game design viewpoint.
On July 25 2024 07:13 itsdaniel wrote: I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
MaxPax has been streaming his ESL runs recently.
Anyone who genuinely thinks that he's hacking (or whatever) should watch those streams and prove themselves wrong.
The windows registry tricks for rapid fire could be considered cheating.
I unironically think that this is cheating, or that it's at least something that players shouldn't reasonably be expected to do. It certainly isn't something that Blizzard (via their designated balance council) should be designing the game around. From my point of view, and to choose just one of many examples, the fact that Terran is almost entirely reliant on rapid fire in late game TvZ demonstrates just how ridiculous Legacy of the Void has become from a game design viewpoint.
As a terran player myself, I preferred the "old" times where you didn't really have access to those tools, but I quickly found out that each race needs his own "version", not only of "which" rapid fires to assign, but also different rates / settings in the windows registry.
Btw, I don't think "streaming" your games means you are not cheating. There have been several convicted cheaters in Halo Infinite who have been able to "stream" their games while cheating, and it still took a while to PROVE they were indeed cheating. Usually, it takes more time to prove that someone is cheating, especially someone who is truly good at the game AND knows what will look suspicious or not.
On July 25 2024 07:13 itsdaniel wrote: I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
MaxPax is not cheating.
Even the slightest amount of non-tinfoil hat research would prove this. Watch any of his recent ESL streams. Just stop making ridiculous assertions with no evidence other than “your gut.”
He's one of the absolute best sc2 players. He's following every rule of the tournaments and leagues he's playing in. At least the people responsible for making sure these rules are followed think so. But for whatever reasons he declines every offline event there is. U know, the biggest and most important events there are for the game which is obviously one or maybe the major part of his life. And he doesn't want to share these reasons publicly. Maybe he even doesn't feel comfortable sharing these.
I therefore kindly ask you to refrain from speculating about these reasons even though it's your good right.
On July 25 2024 07:13 itsdaniel wrote: I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
MaxPax is not cheating.
Even the slightest amount of non-tinfoil hat research would prove this. Watch any of his recent ESL streams. Just stop making ridiculous assertions with no evidence other than “your gut.”
Maybe not, but you have to consider it. There are very few conceivable reasons to explain him forgoing the chance to win $100k+ prizes. The anxiety angle is obviously ridiculous. He's a killer competitor and comfortable engaging with other humans based on the conversation with Harstem. The parental / age issue? No longer holds up. Physical deformity? Sure, maybe he has the worst cystic acne sc2 nerds have ever seen... but nasty looking mugs have been showing up to tournaments forever.
Occam's Razor would point to him doing something in online games that he cannot do at in-person tournaments. Maybe a dual-monitor setup with a production hack or map hack that takes him from a top-100 player to a top-10 player.
I've watched a bunch of his games, and he has a preternatural knack for avoiding traps. Gets caught out of position much less than most. Could be star sense, could be help.
What we do know - Many hacks exist, and they are used by hundreds of masters and GM players.
On July 25 2024 07:13 itsdaniel wrote: I don't wanna sound rude or anything... but that WardiTV Game tonight... I think it was the second or third map, MaxPax vs SKillous... SKillous was waaaaaaaaay ahead, a PVP like that cant be lost... Seeing that game, I am sorry to say... either its an absolute Protoss god (who's Hero?!) better than everything Starcraft has ever seen or its like... it was too Alphagoish for me... is that like... nvm... i just wanna type that... too good to be true...
MaxPax is not cheating.
Even the slightest amount of non-tinfoil hat research would prove this. Watch any of his recent ESL streams. Just stop making ridiculous assertions with no evidence other than “your gut.”
Maybe not, but you have to consider it. There are very few conceivable reasons to explain him forgoing the chance to win $100k+ prizes. The anxiety angle is obviously ridiculous. He's a killer competitor and comfortable engaging with other humans based on the conversation with Harstem. The parental / age issue? No longer holds up. Physical deformity? Sure, maybe he has the worst cystic acne sc2 nerds have ever seen... but nasty looking mugs have been showing up to tournaments forever.
Occam's Razor would point to him doing something in online games that he cannot do at in-person tournaments. Maybe a dual-monitor setup with a production hack or map hack that takes him from a top-100 player to a top-10 player.
I've watched a bunch of his games, and he has a preternatural knack for avoiding traps. Gets caught out of position much less than most. Could be star sense, could be help.
What we do know - Many hacks exist, and they are used by hundreds of masters and GM players.
So in short: You don't have any proof, but you are maddi-spaghetti that the monkey isn't dancing to your liking, so you go for slander?
As for an explanation: There are countless medical reasons why he does the things the way he does them. If you can't proof otherwise, that is a far easier explanation than "he is using this super-complicated hack/cheat that no one has figured out yet"
EPT
