• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:06
CEST 04:06
KST 11:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers13Maestros of the Game 2 announced62026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Maestros of the Game 2 announced MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Any progamer "explanation" videos like this one? Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group D [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1309 users

Balance is an absolute joke, p and z would never

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
str1k3r
Profile Joined August 2022
6 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-19 14:51:10
August 19 2022 14:49 GMT
#1
lose if toss """pros""" were any good and if zerg pros played abusively.

Everything from 4 rax to macro is scouted by overlords and can easily be prepared for, while zerg cheese is abundant, can come at any stage in the game and instantly wins if you didn't do everything right (just for reference, if you proxy gate with stalkers against proxy rax, you can lose 2 stalkers for free and still stomp just with decent micro).

Zerg has enough to defend at all points in the game, naturally, so the only problem is whether or not they scout... which you simply can't deny. It's not even realistic to consistently deny one slow overlord from seeing your build, and so making zerg automatically ahead.

You need to kill 20 workers just to barely survive a dedicated 8+ minute roach ravager push as mech. (No wonder maru lost 3 games to the same timing push in a GSL finals.) There should never be a scenario where terran can win the game before 10 minutes because roaches stomp EVERYTHING on ground no matter what, and any decent zerg can just make them after the push is there while microing the drones away, so your damage won't be big even if successful.

Hellions also do nothing because they always make an evo chamber between the mineral line and their hatchery, so losing a substantial amount of workers is impossible and blue flame opener is not good due to this, BC opener is even worse since you are not just vulnerable to a roach corruptor timing attack but also mutas are guaranteed to deal a ton of damage while shutting down the potential of your BCs.

2 base muta is an auto win every single time against mech because YOU. CAN'T. KILL. THEM. because there is no point in the game (even if you go 2 factory opener) where your cyclones can go out on the map and beat the mutas.

Mech auto loses to amazing outplays such as locusts landing on tanks, not paying attention for 0.5 seconds to what is behind your tanks and getting neural'd, corrosive bile preventing pushes, lings getting to your tanks after zerg instantly re-maxes, and literally being able to tech switch at any time into air when you only have 2 thors, automatically losing the game, among other things. (just as a reminder there have been games where zerg loses 5 armies and still just wins). Bio auto loses to fungal, burrowed banelings, not dealing damage (which happens all the time against anyone decent due to obviously overlords but also queens and spores, there are NO opportunities to deal damage if the zerg is good) and easily getting overwhelmed, hold position lurkers, being physically unable to deny expansions because roaches can always overwhelm you etc.

Protoss is much worse. If a protoss is ever touched by a terran, the game is being played at a subpar level by the protoss player at best.

2 base pushes are comically weak and if you don't see that then you should be playing the corny chinese 4 button game - 7+ minute pushes get stomped on 3 base, 2 base pushes get obliterated by blink into colossus or counter attacking while a-moving chargelots (even with 0 colossi).

There will never be an equivalent to making shield battery colossus on 2 base against a terran doing a 2 base push. Because if protoss does a 3 base blink attack? Oh that's right, you can produce at maximum capacity off of 1-1-1 and you will lose if they micro well unless you have every possible defense ready. There will also never be an equivalent to colossus archon chargelot a-move which is mathematically better than both mech and bio and gets out much sooner than tank thor hellbat does.

Alright, so you have to play out a long, tedious, wrist-breaking macro game, being so good at the game you can micro, position, stim, siege, make it so medivacs aren't too far forward, split, concave, notice exactly where their high templars are and EMP there unless you want to lose the game to one spell, know when to pull back, and all of that just for one fight. Then you have to deal with tempests, DT counter attacks, disruptors (a very skilled unit that utterly outplays your noob loser opponent by pressing 1 button while they have to react like a pro and even then still get efficiency) etc.

This is assuming you've gotten past the phase of the game where you build up tech until you can survive against a colossus chargelot a-move.

Not even mentioning cannon rush (or other DISPROPORTIONATELY strong rushes compared to anything terran can do), which is an auto win every time unless terran somehow survives and goes into a long game where they are behind, then comes back. But otherwise there is quite literally zero counterplay, their cannon production is obscenely faster than how fast you can make marines and a bunker. It also wins against proxy rax since they can effortlessly afford to make 2 cannons at home by the time 4 marines arrive. zest vs ryung is an example, too bad zest took his hands off his keyboard after cannon rushing because it's that stupidly OP.

Not to mention blink and pheonix give protoss complete map control.

Not even mentioning observers: a free map hack.

And remember back when it was shown 48% of EU GMs were tosses? Remember heromarine streams where literally everyone he plays against is a toss? BUT TOSS SO UNDERPOWERED! NO GSL WINS BY PLAYERS WHO LOSE 17 PROBES TO A LIBERATOR!!!!!! (And that is now false too since hero obliterated maru while playing worse.) When will game devs realize that making something weak and something else completely overpowered just means people will pick the OP thing and then will play the abusive easy OP thing vs the abusive easy OP thing (or another), meaning no fun for anyone?
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16062 Posts
August 19 2022 14:59 GMT
#2
10/10, great entertainment


Especially the part where you say that Cannon Rushes are an auto-win against terran.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
chrusher97
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada811 Posts
August 19 2022 15:21 GMT
#3
Its definately true that terran is the weakest on this map pool
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19203 Posts
August 19 2022 15:48 GMT
#4
pointless and bad thread
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#78
PiGStarcraft661
CranKy Ducklings75
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft661
ProTech119
MaxPax 93
ROOTCatZ 73
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 7373
GuemChi 6071
Mind 59
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King55
Other Games
summit1g12649
tarik_tv5764
hungrybox583
WinterStarcraft378
C9.Mang0369
Trikslyr156
Maynarde140
ViBE67
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1484
BasetradeTV286
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 52
• EnkiAlexander 42
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 135
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
7h 54m
Replay Cast
21h 54m
The PondCast
1d 7h
KCM Race Survival
1d 7h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 8h
Gerald vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
Rogue vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs TBD
OSC
1d 12h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 21h
Escore
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Universe Titan Cup
3 days
Rogue vs Percival
Ladder Legends
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Soma vs TBD
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
TBD vs YSC
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-20
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.