• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:23
CET 08:23
KST 16:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns5[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 WardiTV Winter Cup OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft Data analysis on 70 million replays Empty tournaments section on Liquipedia A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 970 users

Balance is an absolute joke, p and z would never

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
str1k3r
Profile Joined August 2022
6 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-19 14:51:10
August 19 2022 14:49 GMT
#1
lose if toss """pros""" were any good and if zerg pros played abusively.

Everything from 4 rax to macro is scouted by overlords and can easily be prepared for, while zerg cheese is abundant, can come at any stage in the game and instantly wins if you didn't do everything right (just for reference, if you proxy gate with stalkers against proxy rax, you can lose 2 stalkers for free and still stomp just with decent micro).

Zerg has enough to defend at all points in the game, naturally, so the only problem is whether or not they scout... which you simply can't deny. It's not even realistic to consistently deny one slow overlord from seeing your build, and so making zerg automatically ahead.

You need to kill 20 workers just to barely survive a dedicated 8+ minute roach ravager push as mech. (No wonder maru lost 3 games to the same timing push in a GSL finals.) There should never be a scenario where terran can win the game before 10 minutes because roaches stomp EVERYTHING on ground no matter what, and any decent zerg can just make them after the push is there while microing the drones away, so your damage won't be big even if successful.

Hellions also do nothing because they always make an evo chamber between the mineral line and their hatchery, so losing a substantial amount of workers is impossible and blue flame opener is not good due to this, BC opener is even worse since you are not just vulnerable to a roach corruptor timing attack but also mutas are guaranteed to deal a ton of damage while shutting down the potential of your BCs.

2 base muta is an auto win every single time against mech because YOU. CAN'T. KILL. THEM. because there is no point in the game (even if you go 2 factory opener) where your cyclones can go out on the map and beat the mutas.

Mech auto loses to amazing outplays such as locusts landing on tanks, not paying attention for 0.5 seconds to what is behind your tanks and getting neural'd, corrosive bile preventing pushes, lings getting to your tanks after zerg instantly re-maxes, and literally being able to tech switch at any time into air when you only have 2 thors, automatically losing the game, among other things. (just as a reminder there have been games where zerg loses 5 armies and still just wins). Bio auto loses to fungal, burrowed banelings, not dealing damage (which happens all the time against anyone decent due to obviously overlords but also queens and spores, there are NO opportunities to deal damage if the zerg is good) and easily getting overwhelmed, hold position lurkers, being physically unable to deny expansions because roaches can always overwhelm you etc.

Protoss is much worse. If a protoss is ever touched by a terran, the game is being played at a subpar level by the protoss player at best.

2 base pushes are comically weak and if you don't see that then you should be playing the corny chinese 4 button game - 7+ minute pushes get stomped on 3 base, 2 base pushes get obliterated by blink into colossus or counter attacking while a-moving chargelots (even with 0 colossi).

There will never be an equivalent to making shield battery colossus on 2 base against a terran doing a 2 base push. Because if protoss does a 3 base blink attack? Oh that's right, you can produce at maximum capacity off of 1-1-1 and you will lose if they micro well unless you have every possible defense ready. There will also never be an equivalent to colossus archon chargelot a-move which is mathematically better than both mech and bio and gets out much sooner than tank thor hellbat does.

Alright, so you have to play out a long, tedious, wrist-breaking macro game, being so good at the game you can micro, position, stim, siege, make it so medivacs aren't too far forward, split, concave, notice exactly where their high templars are and EMP there unless you want to lose the game to one spell, know when to pull back, and all of that just for one fight. Then you have to deal with tempests, DT counter attacks, disruptors (a very skilled unit that utterly outplays your noob loser opponent by pressing 1 button while they have to react like a pro and even then still get efficiency) etc.

This is assuming you've gotten past the phase of the game where you build up tech until you can survive against a colossus chargelot a-move.

Not even mentioning cannon rush (or other DISPROPORTIONATELY strong rushes compared to anything terran can do), which is an auto win every time unless terran somehow survives and goes into a long game where they are behind, then comes back. But otherwise there is quite literally zero counterplay, their cannon production is obscenely faster than how fast you can make marines and a bunker. It also wins against proxy rax since they can effortlessly afford to make 2 cannons at home by the time 4 marines arrive. zest vs ryung is an example, too bad zest took his hands off his keyboard after cannon rushing because it's that stupidly OP.

Not to mention blink and pheonix give protoss complete map control.

Not even mentioning observers: a free map hack.

And remember back when it was shown 48% of EU GMs were tosses? Remember heromarine streams where literally everyone he plays against is a toss? BUT TOSS SO UNDERPOWERED! NO GSL WINS BY PLAYERS WHO LOSE 17 PROBES TO A LIBERATOR!!!!!! (And that is now false too since hero obliterated maru while playing worse.) When will game devs realize that making something weak and something else completely overpowered just means people will pick the OP thing and then will play the abusive easy OP thing vs the abusive easy OP thing (or another), meaning no fun for anyone?
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16021 Posts
August 19 2022 14:59 GMT
#2
10/10, great entertainment


Especially the part where you say that Cannon Rushes are an auto-win against terran.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
chrusher97
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada811 Posts
August 19 2022 15:21 GMT
#3
Its definately true that terran is the weakest on this map pool
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19188 Posts
August 19 2022 15:48 GMT
#4
pointless and bad thread
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SOOP
04:00
SOOP Invitational #1
Liquipedia
PiGosaur Cup
01:00
#63
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft501
Nina 150
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1486
actioN 305
Larva 244
Pusan 236
ggaemo 144
Shuttle 79
EffOrt 74
Mong 67
sorry 42
Bale 36
[ Show more ]
ZergMaN 30
Shine 23
zelot 20
NotJumperer 18
Dota 2
XaKoH 732
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0640
JimRising 595
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox339
Mew2King57
Other Games
summit1g7724
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick31081
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt401
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 37m
TBD vs MindelVK
Cham vs sebesdes
Shameless vs Jumy
Nicoract vs Krystianer
OSC
1d 6h
SOOP
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
IPSL
4 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-05
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.