• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:36
CET 13:36
KST 21:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book9Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info6herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)9Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Clem wins HomeStory Cup 28 HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) WardiTV Mondays $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 512 Overclocked The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2418 users

Balance is an absolute joke, p and z would never

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
str1k3r
Profile Joined August 2022
6 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-19 14:51:10
August 19 2022 14:49 GMT
#1
lose if toss """pros""" were any good and if zerg pros played abusively.

Everything from 4 rax to macro is scouted by overlords and can easily be prepared for, while zerg cheese is abundant, can come at any stage in the game and instantly wins if you didn't do everything right (just for reference, if you proxy gate with stalkers against proxy rax, you can lose 2 stalkers for free and still stomp just with decent micro).

Zerg has enough to defend at all points in the game, naturally, so the only problem is whether or not they scout... which you simply can't deny. It's not even realistic to consistently deny one slow overlord from seeing your build, and so making zerg automatically ahead.

You need to kill 20 workers just to barely survive a dedicated 8+ minute roach ravager push as mech. (No wonder maru lost 3 games to the same timing push in a GSL finals.) There should never be a scenario where terran can win the game before 10 minutes because roaches stomp EVERYTHING on ground no matter what, and any decent zerg can just make them after the push is there while microing the drones away, so your damage won't be big even if successful.

Hellions also do nothing because they always make an evo chamber between the mineral line and their hatchery, so losing a substantial amount of workers is impossible and blue flame opener is not good due to this, BC opener is even worse since you are not just vulnerable to a roach corruptor timing attack but also mutas are guaranteed to deal a ton of damage while shutting down the potential of your BCs.

2 base muta is an auto win every single time against mech because YOU. CAN'T. KILL. THEM. because there is no point in the game (even if you go 2 factory opener) where your cyclones can go out on the map and beat the mutas.

Mech auto loses to amazing outplays such as locusts landing on tanks, not paying attention for 0.5 seconds to what is behind your tanks and getting neural'd, corrosive bile preventing pushes, lings getting to your tanks after zerg instantly re-maxes, and literally being able to tech switch at any time into air when you only have 2 thors, automatically losing the game, among other things. (just as a reminder there have been games where zerg loses 5 armies and still just wins). Bio auto loses to fungal, burrowed banelings, not dealing damage (which happens all the time against anyone decent due to obviously overlords but also queens and spores, there are NO opportunities to deal damage if the zerg is good) and easily getting overwhelmed, hold position lurkers, being physically unable to deny expansions because roaches can always overwhelm you etc.

Protoss is much worse. If a protoss is ever touched by a terran, the game is being played at a subpar level by the protoss player at best.

2 base pushes are comically weak and if you don't see that then you should be playing the corny chinese 4 button game - 7+ minute pushes get stomped on 3 base, 2 base pushes get obliterated by blink into colossus or counter attacking while a-moving chargelots (even with 0 colossi).

There will never be an equivalent to making shield battery colossus on 2 base against a terran doing a 2 base push. Because if protoss does a 3 base blink attack? Oh that's right, you can produce at maximum capacity off of 1-1-1 and you will lose if they micro well unless you have every possible defense ready. There will also never be an equivalent to colossus archon chargelot a-move which is mathematically better than both mech and bio and gets out much sooner than tank thor hellbat does.

Alright, so you have to play out a long, tedious, wrist-breaking macro game, being so good at the game you can micro, position, stim, siege, make it so medivacs aren't too far forward, split, concave, notice exactly where their high templars are and EMP there unless you want to lose the game to one spell, know when to pull back, and all of that just for one fight. Then you have to deal with tempests, DT counter attacks, disruptors (a very skilled unit that utterly outplays your noob loser opponent by pressing 1 button while they have to react like a pro and even then still get efficiency) etc.

This is assuming you've gotten past the phase of the game where you build up tech until you can survive against a colossus chargelot a-move.

Not even mentioning cannon rush (or other DISPROPORTIONATELY strong rushes compared to anything terran can do), which is an auto win every time unless terran somehow survives and goes into a long game where they are behind, then comes back. But otherwise there is quite literally zero counterplay, their cannon production is obscenely faster than how fast you can make marines and a bunker. It also wins against proxy rax since they can effortlessly afford to make 2 cannons at home by the time 4 marines arrive. zest vs ryung is an example, too bad zest took his hands off his keyboard after cannon rushing because it's that stupidly OP.

Not to mention blink and pheonix give protoss complete map control.

Not even mentioning observers: a free map hack.

And remember back when it was shown 48% of EU GMs were tosses? Remember heromarine streams where literally everyone he plays against is a toss? BUT TOSS SO UNDERPOWERED! NO GSL WINS BY PLAYERS WHO LOSE 17 PROBES TO A LIBERATOR!!!!!! (And that is now false too since hero obliterated maru while playing worse.) When will game devs realize that making something weak and something else completely overpowered just means people will pick the OP thing and then will play the abusive easy OP thing vs the abusive easy OP thing (or another), meaning no fun for anyone?
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16035 Posts
August 19 2022 14:59 GMT
#2
10/10, great entertainment


Especially the part where you say that Cannon Rushes are an auto-win against terran.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
chrusher97
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada811 Posts
August 19 2022 15:21 GMT
#3
Its definately true that terran is the weakest on this map pool
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19192 Posts
August 19 2022 15:48 GMT
#4
pointless and bad thread
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#73
WardiTV403
OGKoka 198
Rex77
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 198
Rex 77
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7236
Bisu 1948
BeSt 1709
Hyuk 1543
Flash 1047
actioN 1043
Horang2 923
Zeus 681
Larva 405
firebathero 316
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 302
Mini 258
Soma 206
Snow 195
ZerO 188
JYJ 179
ggaemo 139
PianO 127
Sharp 125
Soulkey 101
hero 88
Pusan 78
Rush 64
Mind 61
Backho 48
Mong 42
Yoon 35
Shuttle 32
ToSsGirL 26
Shine 25
GoRush 24
Free 23
Aegong 19
910 19
HiyA 18
Shinee 17
sorry 16
Bale 16
soO 15
Noble 15
Movie 14
SilentControl 11
Icarus 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe152
NeuroSwarm135
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1842
shoxiejesuss1256
byalli878
x6flipin580
allub276
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King141
Other Games
singsing1917
B2W.Neo495
crisheroes288
Pyrionflax167
Sick151
Livibee58
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1525
CasterMuse 26
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 80
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV14
League of Legends
• Nemesis9665
• Jankos1716
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
4h 24m
Replay Cast
11h 24m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 24m
LiuLi Cup
22h 24m
Reynor vs Creator
Maru vs Lambo
PiGosaur Monday
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
LiuLi Cup
1d 22h
Clem vs Rogue
SHIN vs Cyan
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Online Event
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.