• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:18
CEST 15:18
KST 22:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy16ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash ASL21 General Discussion How Can I Add Timer & APM Count? A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group F [ASL21] Ro24 Group E Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1492 users

Balance is an absolute joke, p and z would never

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
str1k3r
Profile Joined August 2022
6 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-19 14:51:10
August 19 2022 14:49 GMT
#1
lose if toss """pros""" were any good and if zerg pros played abusively.

Everything from 4 rax to macro is scouted by overlords and can easily be prepared for, while zerg cheese is abundant, can come at any stage in the game and instantly wins if you didn't do everything right (just for reference, if you proxy gate with stalkers against proxy rax, you can lose 2 stalkers for free and still stomp just with decent micro).

Zerg has enough to defend at all points in the game, naturally, so the only problem is whether or not they scout... which you simply can't deny. It's not even realistic to consistently deny one slow overlord from seeing your build, and so making zerg automatically ahead.

You need to kill 20 workers just to barely survive a dedicated 8+ minute roach ravager push as mech. (No wonder maru lost 3 games to the same timing push in a GSL finals.) There should never be a scenario where terran can win the game before 10 minutes because roaches stomp EVERYTHING on ground no matter what, and any decent zerg can just make them after the push is there while microing the drones away, so your damage won't be big even if successful.

Hellions also do nothing because they always make an evo chamber between the mineral line and their hatchery, so losing a substantial amount of workers is impossible and blue flame opener is not good due to this, BC opener is even worse since you are not just vulnerable to a roach corruptor timing attack but also mutas are guaranteed to deal a ton of damage while shutting down the potential of your BCs.

2 base muta is an auto win every single time against mech because YOU. CAN'T. KILL. THEM. because there is no point in the game (even if you go 2 factory opener) where your cyclones can go out on the map and beat the mutas.

Mech auto loses to amazing outplays such as locusts landing on tanks, not paying attention for 0.5 seconds to what is behind your tanks and getting neural'd, corrosive bile preventing pushes, lings getting to your tanks after zerg instantly re-maxes, and literally being able to tech switch at any time into air when you only have 2 thors, automatically losing the game, among other things. (just as a reminder there have been games where zerg loses 5 armies and still just wins). Bio auto loses to fungal, burrowed banelings, not dealing damage (which happens all the time against anyone decent due to obviously overlords but also queens and spores, there are NO opportunities to deal damage if the zerg is good) and easily getting overwhelmed, hold position lurkers, being physically unable to deny expansions because roaches can always overwhelm you etc.

Protoss is much worse. If a protoss is ever touched by a terran, the game is being played at a subpar level by the protoss player at best.

2 base pushes are comically weak and if you don't see that then you should be playing the corny chinese 4 button game - 7+ minute pushes get stomped on 3 base, 2 base pushes get obliterated by blink into colossus or counter attacking while a-moving chargelots (even with 0 colossi).

There will never be an equivalent to making shield battery colossus on 2 base against a terran doing a 2 base push. Because if protoss does a 3 base blink attack? Oh that's right, you can produce at maximum capacity off of 1-1-1 and you will lose if they micro well unless you have every possible defense ready. There will also never be an equivalent to colossus archon chargelot a-move which is mathematically better than both mech and bio and gets out much sooner than tank thor hellbat does.

Alright, so you have to play out a long, tedious, wrist-breaking macro game, being so good at the game you can micro, position, stim, siege, make it so medivacs aren't too far forward, split, concave, notice exactly where their high templars are and EMP there unless you want to lose the game to one spell, know when to pull back, and all of that just for one fight. Then you have to deal with tempests, DT counter attacks, disruptors (a very skilled unit that utterly outplays your noob loser opponent by pressing 1 button while they have to react like a pro and even then still get efficiency) etc.

This is assuming you've gotten past the phase of the game where you build up tech until you can survive against a colossus chargelot a-move.

Not even mentioning cannon rush (or other DISPROPORTIONATELY strong rushes compared to anything terran can do), which is an auto win every time unless terran somehow survives and goes into a long game where they are behind, then comes back. But otherwise there is quite literally zero counterplay, their cannon production is obscenely faster than how fast you can make marines and a bunker. It also wins against proxy rax since they can effortlessly afford to make 2 cannons at home by the time 4 marines arrive. zest vs ryung is an example, too bad zest took his hands off his keyboard after cannon rushing because it's that stupidly OP.

Not to mention blink and pheonix give protoss complete map control.

Not even mentioning observers: a free map hack.

And remember back when it was shown 48% of EU GMs were tosses? Remember heromarine streams where literally everyone he plays against is a toss? BUT TOSS SO UNDERPOWERED! NO GSL WINS BY PLAYERS WHO LOSE 17 PROBES TO A LIBERATOR!!!!!! (And that is now false too since hero obliterated maru while playing worse.) When will game devs realize that making something weak and something else completely overpowered just means people will pick the OP thing and then will play the abusive easy OP thing vs the abusive easy OP thing (or another), meaning no fun for anyone?
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16062 Posts
August 19 2022 14:59 GMT
#2
10/10, great entertainment


Especially the part where you say that Cannon Rushes are an auto-win against terran.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
chrusher97
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada811 Posts
August 19 2022 15:21 GMT
#3
Its definately true that terran is the weakest on this map pool
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19200 Posts
August 19 2022 15:48 GMT
#4
pointless and bad thread
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko293
LamboSC2 242
Rex 79
Creator 70
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 49703
Horang2 4491
Shuttle 1900
Mini 816
Soulkey 568
Rush 378
Soma 365
ggaemo 304
Last 243
BeSt 152
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 64
Mind 57
Movie 45
sorry 36
Shinee 35
JYJ 33
sSak 31
[sc1f]eonzerg 25
Noble 21
GoRush 14
Shine 12
Bale 12
IntoTheRainbow 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Sexy 7
Icarus 4
Dota 2
Gorgc4470
LuMiX1
420jenkins0
Counter-Strike
fl0m2919
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK21
Other Games
B2W.Neo1814
Beastyqt744
ProTech119
QueenE70
Mew2King57
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL23636
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 489
Other Games
BasetradeTV198
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 62
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2121
• Stunt538
Upcoming Events
BSL
5h 42m
RSL Revival
17h 42m
Cure vs Rogue
Maru vs TBD
MaxPax vs TBD
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d
BSL
1d 5h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W1
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.