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If there ought to be 0 tolerance, is it a mistake that ByuN is allowed to play? Some Korean pros still hate him for it, too.
"[ByuN was] accused of match-fixing in an ESV TV Korean Weekly match against CoCa. CoCa was demoted by SlayerS and ByuN was banned from participating in tournaments by his team, Prime."
In the thread linked below are well likely all the arguments that will reappear here. For example the "almost kill the Starcraft scene in Korea" argument being shown as misleading, i.e the SBENU scandal taking place at the same time and being an incomparably bigger problem for Kespa/Proleague.
For a clearheaded perspective, I recommend NonY's take: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/closed-threads/518783-1-year-since-life-has-been-arrested?page=13#244
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8751 Posts
Is CS:GO so low on talent that they must risk asking cheaters to come play again? Seems to me like it's a popular enough game that they can ban them for life and let new players replace them. As for SC, it seems like the same situation, though the games are nowhere near as popular anymore. We don't really need to ask cheaters to start practicing and playing again to improve the scene. They caused so much trouble for the scene in the first place and a repeat would be really bad. There are a lot of talented players playing both SC2 and BW so I don't really see the need to take that risk.
From the perspective of justice, I agree with you that rehabilitation with re-entry into society as productive individuals is the goal. But the world is big enough that people who have burned bridges can go start somewhere else. These players can go do anything in the world other than play CS:GO tournaments or SC tournaments.
As the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I don't get why you'd say this. It's an argument against you. There's nothing these tournaments can do to stop match-fixing other than promise longer bans. There's nothing stopping the players from fooling you again. So the shame is on you for trusting them again. Look, these people don't start their path planning to match fix. They start with good intentions and they find themselves in a tempting situation and they make the wrong choice. There's really no way to know how they'll handle the situation when they find themselves in it again.
edit:
I do remember that post as I wrote this current one. I just like writing down arguments as counterpoints to what I've seen other people say without actually expressing what I'd do if it were up to me. This is a complicated topic and I find both sides pretty compelling.
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On September 08 2017 03:10 seopthi wrote:If there ought to be 0 tolerance, is it a mistake that ByuN is allowed to play? Some Korean pros still hate him for it, too. "[ByuN was] accused of match-fixing in an ESV TV Korean Weekly match against CoCa. CoCa was demoted by SlayerS and ByuN was banned from participating in tournaments by his team, Prime." In the thread linked below are well likely all the arguments that will reappear here. For example the "almost kill the Starcraft scene in Korea" argument being shown as misleading, i.e the SBENU scandal taking place at the same time and being an incomparably bigger problem for Kespa/Proleague. For a clearheaded perspective, I recommend NonY's take: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/closed-threads/518783-1-year-since-life-has-been-arrested?page=13#244
Extremely different circumstances around Life's matchfixing and Byun/Coca's. They are hardly worthy of comparison. Byun/Coca were still punished quite harshly for their game which shows 0 tolerance for any sort of matchfixing, but different offenses deserve different punishments.
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Most of these guys are kids, so giving a second chance would make sense.
On the other hand, given that their careers usually fade as they get towards 30 years old, a life ban isn't actually as harsh as it sounds.
So my point is that both decisions are understandable. Although I think it's better not to unban them as keeping them banned feeds the credibility of esports imo.
As a tangent, I think matchfixing is a more serious offence than for example doping because it fundamentally ridicules the spirit of competition.
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Someone posted a nice writeup regarding the situations of the CS players - specifically IBPs ban.
There was no precedent for match fixing or getting caught in the CS scene - and the concept of cosmetics and gambling as also new. There have been many studies that show that the known high risk of getting caught is a stronger deterrence than a severe punishment. Because there was no known risk of getting caught, the IBP (or rather most of them) went through with it. Yeah, it was shitty, and their coverup was shitty. There's no excuse to that.
However, certain individuals involved in that circumstance have spent the years after continuing to play the game, help others and make amends for their mistakes. Do all of them deserve an unban? I don't know, but I can surely vouch that Steel and Skadoodle have done nothing but continue to show love and support for the game, franchise and the community at large. I don't like the "people make mistakes" argument either, but people making amends consistently, while being repeatedly told "You aren't getting unbanned" should show something in regards to their character.
This is NOT the case for Life, BBY, etc. They all knew the risks and immense hatred for matchfixing in Korea of all places due to the immense damage that was wrought from the Savior scandals. Not only were they permanently banned, they did nothing to amend their mistakes, they did nothing to try to heal the scars they created.
So no, they should not be unbanned.
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On September 08 2017 03:20 Avexyli wrote:
I don't know, but I can surely vouch that Steel and Skadoodle have done nothing but continue to show love and support for the game, franchise and the community at large.
Bit nitpicky, but Skadoodle didn't get banned. I guess you mean Dazed?
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I agree with everyone else: Just because other eSports are unbanning match fixers doesn't mean we need to do the same. Maybe the StarCraft cheaters should go play a different eSport that doesn't have the same standards of integrity.
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BW and SC2 match fixers should remain banned.
On September 08 2017 03:09 Ej_ wrote:
I think OP is a genuine idiot tho.
proof? 1 incorrect opinion post is insufficient. if you provide no proof then you've posted an unsubstantiated personal insult.
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Germany25657 Posts
This thread did not go well.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://m.popkey.co/a818d6/4Vvbx.gif)
