EPTSC1 is getting patched soon!! - Page 13
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On January 27 2017 00:52 neobowman wrote: Like check my examples from last page for the type of stuff I'm suggesting. I don't see any suggestions from you on the last page. | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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biryusky
70 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 27 2017 01:56 biryusky wrote: god damn when is this ever gonna stop. Blizzard hasnt touched jack shit about balance since like 10 years ago. Why are we even speculating or suggesting things that dont go anywhere? *since 16 years ago 10 years ago was Bisu vs Savior | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On January 27 2017 01:56 biryusky wrote: god damn when is this ever gonna stop. Blizzard hasnt touched jack shit about balance since like 10 years ago. Why are we even speculating or suggesting things that dont go anywhere? Why are you posting this? Why do people for some reason hate the idea of hypothetical discussion? Am I actively offending you or hurting you somehow? So what if it doesn't go anywhere, people discuss sports all the time and that doesn't go anywhere. Your post isn't going to lead to Blizzard changing the game either, why bother? | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On January 27 2017 02:36 neobowman wrote: Why are you posting this? Why do people for some reason hate the idea of hypothetical discussion? Am I actively offending you or hurting you somehow? So what if it doesn't go anywhere, people discuss sports all the time and that doesn't go anywhere. Your post isn't going to lead to Blizzard changing the game either, why bother? They probably think that "having hypothetical balance discussions" and "thinking BW is a fantastic game" are mutually exclusive. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On January 26 2017 23:04 ProMeTheus112 wrote: They use spores against wraiths? I watch too little ZvT^^ Yeah it's important that Wraiths openings can stay in the game. [I just checked smtg, Wraith are large and mutas are small. It's possible to make spore stronger against mutas and not against wraith if you have them deal concussive damage. But this has consequences on all other medium and large air units. I think of PvZ because I'm P. Spores that would deal a small aoe dmg concussive at 15 dmg would deal 50% dmg to corsairs (medium) but small aoe, and weak dmg to arbiter or carrier or scout or shuttle. In TvZ Wraith would suffer 25% damage small AoE that's like 4 dmg, they have no armor. Overall they would be stronger cause you'd need 4 stacked wraith taking full dmg for spore to be as strong ; though longer time before a wraith gets killed. The damage value of the spore could also be tweaked. Spores dealing almost no damage to BC, does that feel right? It would become bad against drop units which seems particularly unfair so I think overall it's probably not a good idea.] How about just making hydras stronger against mutas? Hydras are much stronger than mutalisks. Once you get a past a certain threshold of numbers, mutalisks can't touch them anymore (I've done tests with certain amounts of resources (always generously in favor of the mutalisk player*) and hydras with a couple of lurkers beat muta ling like there's no tomorrow). One of my tests: + Show Spoiler + 48 mutas (1 attack, 2 armor) and 48 lings (1 attack, 1 armor) (total cost: 6725/5525) vs 73 hydras (2/2) and 4 lurkers (6600/2950). The hydras win with around 20 or more left over unless you pull of an otherworldly flank where only half of the hydras are shooting for a considerable time, there's no way you can win this battle. It's one, among many, of the reasons why "hive zvzs" evolve towards hydra lurkers (defilers being another reason of course). Hydralisks are bad because the mutalisk player can get too big of an economical advantage by abusing their mobility and harrassing power. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
dadadadadadada! | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On January 27 2017 03:43 blabber wrote: All they need to do is give Protoss Scouts the speed upgrade by default! dadadadadadada! Also Apial Sensors. Gamete Meiosis should also be researched from the start. And Mind Control. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On January 26 2017 17:26 Djagulingu wrote: You want the matchup that is the most dynamic matchup of the BW by lightyears to be more dynamic? Why? I might misuse the word dynamic here but i dont htink i am. So instead of you asking me "Why", put some thoughts into why its dynamic because i dont see it. On January 26 2017 17:18 zaMNal wrote: First of all, don't use caps. Second, by your logic (that scv should have 60hp because quote: "scv can't mine minerals for the duration of structure building") the drone then should have 100hp because it dies when it's building. See what i did there? As explained earlier, no need to have scv hp over 45, really. First of all, i use shift and second of all i use it instead of using the bold quote. You should know this already but you dont. By my logic which is logic and yours aint, zerg makes drones ALOT FASTER than any other race, therefore the drones die when they make structures. Please, your low post count and misquote is enough for me not to bother any more with you. | ||
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yB.TeH
Germany414 Posts
better nerf terran just go back to the sc2 section pls | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On January 27 2017 03:40 B-royal wrote: Hydras are much stronger than mutalisks. Once you get a past a certain threshold of numbers, mutalisks can't touch them anymore (I've done tests with certain amounts of resources (always generously in favor of the mutalisk player*) and hydras with a couple of lurkers beat muta ling like there's no tomorrow). One of my tests: + Show Spoiler + 48 mutas (1 attack, 2 armor) and 48 lings (1 attack, 1 armor) (total cost: 6725/5525) vs 73 hydras (2/2) and 4 lurkers (6600/2950). The hydras win with around 20 or more left over unless you pull of an otherworldly flank where only half of the hydras are shooting for a considerable time, there's no way you can win this battle. It's one, among many, of the reasons why "hive zvzs" evolve towards hydra lurkers (defilers being another reason of course). Hydralisks are bad because the mutalisk player can get too big of an economical advantage by abusing their mobility and harrassing power. Basically any mobile air unit is going to be less cost effective than a corresponding ground unit. The idea though is seeing if we can increase hydra damage enough that it becomes a viable option. Unfortunately, this also means buffing hydras against Protoss and against Mech (and 1 rax cc busts lol). There might be merit in only buffing the anti-air attack but then it becomes really weird to have different damage types for an attack that looks identical (unlike something like the goliath whose anti air and anti ground attacks are very distinct). I honestly don't think I'd worry too much about it. ZvZ is really hard to bring away from muta and zergling fights just because they're both incredibly mobile units. Any changes made to Zerg units in this regard probably will affect other matchups too much. A spore change is probably the only viable change to make in this regard but it'd have to be really convoluted and such so I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe reduce the build time of the spores? Iunno. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On January 26 2017 14:20 neobowman wrote: Lemme throw some stuff out there and see if any stick For ZvP we could try Corsair +10 hp. 2 extra hits from mutas when alone and about 1 extra in groups. Small subtle change slightly improves Protoss against Z, not against T. And/or Archon +50 shields. Won't change the way they're used, it'll just make them stronger. How bout TvZ? Queens: Spawn broodling cost down to 125 energy. Queen energy upgrade down to 100/100 from 150/150 and time down to 50 from 105. Small queen boost against Mech. And/or Nydus canal build time down to 20 seconds from 40. Health up from 250 to 350. Thoughts on those? Some more I've thought of. +1 Infantry up to 125/125. Medic build time up to 22 from 19. Consume research time down to 70 from 100. Maelstrom takes 20 seconds to research down from 63. Dark Templar Shields up to 60 from 40. Corsair -20 shields +1 armor. So new total would be 100 health 40 shields, 2 armor to begin with. Extra boost against mutas. There's so many very minor changes that could be made that would improve each matchup just a little but more while ideally keeping the core gameplay the same. Of course, some of them could completely change the meta for unforseeon reasons or something but there are clearly going to be solutions that work here. It's just a matter of finding out exactly what. Hm, some are decent changes. Nontheless they are still interesting as well. Makes me realise balancing broodwar is easier than i thought at first since some mus dont use some units etc. Imo, sticking to the bw-formula is wise imo, which means LONG buildtimes on upgrades. Doesnt mean you can still reduce some upgrades buildtime. I liked the consume research time reduced. This would mean in zvt, zerg can start hive later than they do on LIVE which means.. Slightly more attack units to defend 3rd. At the same time i would just like zerg to be able to stay on lair for longer because i really like when zerg can macro and be agressive in zvt, its a fun and dynamic gameplay imo. Not sure corsairs need any change since hydras alone would be worse vs them which is not good imo. I like zerg being able to choose between spire build or hydra build. Which they still would, for sure but might cripple them a little bit to much. Hard to say. Anyway, i have one bold change in mind. Just slipping it out there. +5 hp to zerglings on hive-spawning pool. *Marines one extra shot *Mech still very good vs them, tanks will need 2shots with aoe to kill zerglings. Vults still 2shot them. Deponds on upgrades abit tho, for example +3 vs +3 =2shot. +1 vs +3=3shot. *Firebats still amazingly good. To encourage lategame zerglings more. Also encourage hive+make this upgrade and delay defilers for a more "macro zergling" style. Against protoss, another matter *archons no longer 1shot them with full upgrades. Zerglings are another beast entirely vs protoss. Potential with buffing archons here, also darkarchon buff(but plz no anti micro stun buff). Perhaps some slight zealot buff? Doesnt effect vs mech to much(?) the 5hp zergling any potential in your mind? Some other things i wanna mention. About the ensnare for zerg. What if the slow effect got removed entirely. And the attackspeed is around 15% or something, mech and bio can differ here. And instead the energy can be reduced to 50energy, and the detect effect lasts longer, perhaps the range cast +1 or +2 as well. Will enocurage some more queen use in zvt, when terran goes mech switch you can build like 3queens and hydras and clear out some mines and stuff. Overlords with speed works as well ofcourse, but they are more vulnerable(if queens cast range gets buffed with this spell), also these queens can be saved for later use as well. Might enocurage the medic restoration spell as well abit. Also in zvp, possible to attack the corsair/dt much better. To discourage "cant kill me, armee". | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On January 26 2017 19:47 FvRGg wrote: i cant believe you guys are arguing about balance lol I can't believe you can't believe it. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2262 Posts
On January 27 2017 05:02 neobowman wrote: Maybe reduce the build time of the spores? Iunno. the problem is this will make high templar defence easier for Zerg, as SC cant be hunted by corsair like overlords are. To guys who are annoyed by balance talk -noone here is talking about changing balance for serious. Calm down your tits. | ||
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
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Prince_Stranger
Kazakhstan762 Posts
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
On January 27 2017 05:06 Foxxan wrote: *Mech still very good vs them, tanks will need 2shots with aoe to kill zerglings. Vults still 2shot them. Vultures will need three shots now. Because zergs hp regeneration will kick in, and before second shot zergling will have 21hp. Same as drones  also, as you mentioned, cracklings would tear toss appart and it leads to chain buffs and in the end we might end up with terrible terrible damage... | ||
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hitthat
Poland2262 Posts
On January 27 2017 05:30 Prince_Stranger wrote: Hopefully bw balance-wise never change as it is for long time. Otherwise it will lead to endless bullshit patch changes which is happening in other popular games. Actually thats what I really count on, even if I hate ZvZ meta... | ||
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