On November 21 2016 09:08 Noocta wrote: Well, my guild just spent our 4th or 5th evenbing wiping on Mythic elereth, and it's getting clear that even if we kill her, we won't ever kill any of the other bosses in there before Nighthold. Starting to see a fracture between the good players ( who can only do so much and use the time to joke on vocal a lot more ) and the other part of average/bad players that get annoyed by the discussions.
Seems like we're at a roadblock and noone is really sure what to do. I'm confident that most of the players in the second part are definitely not Mythic caliber players ( I'm talking about people that are clear mouselicker, not really interested in getting better, using third party tools, that don't even botehr to play outside of raiding ) but what can you do, you need 20 players in the end.
This is exactly what happened to us. Mythic Elerethe, couple of people constantly dying to stupid shit, not controlling the spider adds, and not understanding how Dark Winds works despite lots of explanations. Of our top 5 DPS, 3 transferred (me and the spriest are left) as well as our main tank and raid leader, all to a more populated server to piggyback off another guild.
I'm at the point where I no longer play outside raiding. We did pick up replacements but they're nowhere near as good, so we've been doing Heroic EN and Normal ToV instead of working on Heroic ToV and Mythic EN like we were. Me and the spriest are close in DPS and everyone else is at least 30-50k below us (I'm affliction btw, which is still on the weaker end).
I'm also at the point where I've pretty much got the best gear I'm gonna get outside of Mythic/Heroic raiding or getting super lucky in one of the Suramar Mythic+ dungeons (or NL). So I just don't see the point in playing all that much. Sure, I could level the artifact, but why? No incentive to get better when you're just carrying people anyway.
I find it strange that guilds even bother with hc en and normal TV. I pug normal TOV and heroic EN every week anyway quite easily.
Because shit can Titanforge. This week we got 3 880+ items from EN hc. And it is faster with guild grp than with pug usually. Legendary chance also.
On November 21 2016 09:08 Noocta wrote: Well, my guild just spent our 4th or 5th evenbing wiping on Mythic elereth, and it's getting clear that even if we kill her, we won't ever kill any of the other bosses in there before Nighthold. Starting to see a fracture between the good players ( who can only do so much and use the time to joke on vocal a lot more ) and the other part of average/bad players that get annoyed by the discussions.
Seems like we're at a roadblock and noone is really sure what to do. I'm confident that most of the players in the second part are definitely not Mythic caliber players ( I'm talking about people that are clear mouselicker, not really interested in getting better, using third party tools, that don't even botehr to play outside of raiding ) but what can you do, you need 20 players in the end.
This is exactly what happened to us. Mythic Elerethe, couple of people constantly dying to stupid shit, not controlling the spider adds, and not understanding how Dark Winds works despite lots of explanations. Of our top 5 DPS, 3 transferred (me and the spriest are left) as well as our main tank and raid leader, all to a more populated server to piggyback off another guild.
I'm at the point where I no longer play outside raiding. We did pick up replacements but they're nowhere near as good, so we've been doing Heroic EN and Normal ToV instead of working on Heroic ToV and Mythic EN like we were. Me and the spriest are close in DPS and everyone else is at least 30-50k below us (I'm affliction btw, which is still on the weaker end).
I'm also at the point where I've pretty much got the best gear I'm gonna get outside of Mythic/Heroic raiding or getting super lucky in one of the Suramar Mythic+ dungeons (or NL). So I just don't see the point in playing all that much. Sure, I could level the artifact, but why? No incentive to get better when you're just carrying people anyway.
I find it strange that guilds even bother with hc en and normal TV. I pug normal TOV and heroic EN every week anyway quite easily.
Because shit can Titanforge. This week we got 3 880+ items from EN hc. And it is faster with guild grp than with pug usually. Legendary chance also.
Oh I know thats not what I meant.. I dont need any items from HC en either. I just go for titanforges aswell. But I meant a progression guild that just farms hc en and normal tov isnt really a progression guild. I could have worded that better.
I dont know about the speed though, since i just log in find a grp at a boss i want, kill it and leave. I guess thats the behaviour that slows it down. Its pretty dickish but that seems to be the enduring culture with loot lockouts the way they are so im not going my out of way to be nice unless I have time.
If it's a raid like EN which has the bosses in no particular order then it's really annoying to do it another way, joining a raid that very very slowly kills boss 2 and then boss 4 before disbanding when you only need boss 3
Also got a recording in raid today where the best option for DPS was to autoattack the boss and take my hands off the keyboard for 9 seconds straight. Having a ~74% chance to have a 65% chance to generate X +-25% fury is pretty concerning for being able to apply DPS and CC when you want or need it.
The legendary ring actually increases the amount of randomness but it gives you so much fury overall at the moment that you're probably going to get the bad luck streak when you're trying to spend all of your fury rather than looking at an empty bar and being reliant on decent luck to function. Post-nerf and post-class-changes that won't be true any more so it'll be pretty bad i think.
I strongly dislike GCD going to 0.75 seconds (a hardcap of 1 second would be ~1.33x less often..) but i think that control over resource generation goes a bit beyond personal preference
wait, do you take nemesis over momentum with demon blades
if nemesis is as viable as momentum then i'd rather switch to DB and afk in fights instead of turning my screen everywhere to control my momentum uptime
Demon Blades / Bite doesn't really affect the momentum vs nemesis option. Momentum is much more all-round with nemesis being better in niche situations.
You actually have nothing to press because of momentum, pressing Fel Rush to open a momentum window when you have 0 fury in your bar and no pressing need to apply damage right now is bad
always take momentum and demon blades imo. feelycraft (my feels) says its better. It will feel stupid at first because it seems rather counterintuitive to not be pressing (resource generating button) anything during fights LOL...
i play DH as my alt though, so take what i say with a huge pinch of salt.
also, momentum is guaranteed dps increase since fel rush is in your rotation to generate fury? yeah, momentum definitely seems better.
DBlades is a bit better overall in 885 gear and/or with legendary ring (stealth nerfed? Cmon blizz, give us some patch notes!) but that will probably go out of the window with 7.1.5. The DH community doesn't want an easier and quite highly random style to feel mandatory and neither does blizzard.
it's better for burst windows with CD's, especially heroism too (free fury, more GCD's on damage abilities, very high haste%) and worse outside of them (less fury gen on average, feast or famine)
also, momentum is guaranteed dps increase since fel rush is in your rotation to generate fury? yeah, momentum definitely seems better.
Sure, Momentum is pretty damn important but the talent that s/he's comparing it to is a button that makes you do 20% more damage to a target for 1 minute on a 2 minute CD.
Nemesis always wins when it has 100% uptime (such as killing the only target within 60 seconds) but Momentum has a much easier time of winning when Nemesis is near 50% (2 min, 4 min, 6 min boss fight). This makes Nemesis good for 1phasing Il'gynoth but bad for Guarm Mythic.
Momentum wins in many multi-target situations or awkwardly timed priority targets where Nemesis cannot be applied well
Momentum often wins at high skill but loses at lower skill when people cannot utilize it as well as it's a much harder style
Nemesis is more mobile (and can also move less, if required) as your DPS is less tightly woven into your mobility
But seeing as (at least imo) that mobility is an integral part of DH playstyle, you should use momentum. it applies to fel rush and the disengage(forgot the name sorry) that's 3 CDs to try and keep momentum uptime ( i don't math, again feelycraft) as high as possible.
I used to use Nemesis because it was pretty brainless and it also means 1 less thing to think about ultimately.
Isn't the ring gonna get nerfed? The fury generation is gonna be lowered.
Haha, personally speaking. I can't stand playing melee. =X
They've been continually adjusting PVP balance on a week to week basis through the stat templates. I'm not sure what knee-jerk PVE changes you're talking about, the 7.1.5 reworks apply to both PVE and PVP. We have not had those weekly or even monthly lists of +5% damage here, -5% damage there in PVE even though it could have been used IMO.
The PTR changes are aimed at design changes, not balance; balance will come afterwards. They're also half finished, entire specs are missing from the patch notes that are certainly getting big changes.
Isn't the ring gonna get nerfed? The fury generation is gonna be lowered.
Yeah, but a bunch of people are claiming that it got a notable nerf yesterday on the live servers as well.
But seeing as (at least imo) that mobility is an integral part of DH playstyle, you should use momentum.
I agree that it's an important part of the spec identity (momentum is one of the main complexities of havoc that prevents you from mashing the keyboard and doing pro-level DPS) but at the same time, it does substantially reduce the mobility that you can use for actual mobility.
the ptr changes right now are like... imagine they were changing the gameplay of a class to have less downtime in the rotation, so they plan to lower the damage of several abilities but increase resource generation so it'll have more casts. the ptr right now could have only the lowering of the damage, or the raising of the resource generation. not both, not the whole picture. so anyone reading the notes and thinking "oh they're buffing my class" or "they're nerfing my class" is getting the wrong idea. gotta wait for everything they're intending to be implemented, and then tested, and then adjusted.