• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:46
CEST 09:46
KST 16:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool51Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group E [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
China Uses Video Games to Sh…
TrAiDoS
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 16170 users

The old boys club / My new direction.

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 10:57:33
March 03 2015 10:53 GMT
#1
Hello everyone. This is that follow up blog to what I've always wanted to blog about - The Old Boys Club.

What is The Old Boys Club?
I google searched a definition that yielded the following results:
+ Show Spoiler +
old boys'club: an informal system by which money and power are retained by wealthy white men through incestuous business relationships. It is not necessarily purposeful or malicious, but the Old Boy’s Network can prevent women and minorities from being truly successful in the business world. It entails establishing business relationships on high-priced golf courses, at exclusive country clubs, in the executive sky-boxes at sporting events, through private fraternities or social clubs, et cetera. These are arenas from which women and minorities are traditionally excluded and thus are not privy to the truly serious business transactions or conversations.


Source: http://theoldboysclub.org/definition.html

I think perhaps the definition I recovered from Google is perhaps too broad, so let us scale it down in to the realm of the Starcraft 2 scene, adding to its relevancy (no offense to Smix, but I think she falls in to the realm of the Old Boys Club of SC2 although she doesn't fit in to the definition in spoilers above). I think it can refer to one of the two phenomena:
  • Players that were consistently and repeatedly invited to WCS 4000 Point events with 75% invites in 2013 and 2014 or...
  • A group of casters / hosts / analysts that constantly and consistently make paid appearances at offline events that may or may not be worth WCS points for Starcraft 2.


For our purposes, we will refer to casters / hosts / analysts. If you are going to work hard in eSports and eventually receive a salaried / paid position for doing some form of work or labor for an organization in eSports you will eventually make contact with a few members of the Old Boys Club - in person or online. Some of them are great to talk to, both on camera and off camera, and can yield you some amazing sources of inspiration. Some of them, after your first time talking to them, might make you consider speaking to a toilet before ever talking to them again.

So, is this a problem? Why are you talking about this?
I realize this is a first world problem, but (perhaps I am over-generalizing here), why should we see the richest of the rich eSports casters get richer while other parts of offline events should suffer, including new people trying to survive in this industry? I would like to see a system in place that protects new talent - people who are not pro gamers, people who have never been pro gamers, and people who have worked hard to prove that they want to do something in eSports besides sit around and watch. Tournament organizers also have an obligation to their sponsors, to the people who give them finances (what some would call "dirty eSports money") to spend efficiently, without wasting money. There are people who are dying to become casters, an absolute "flood of talent" as R1CH once said to me. Adding to that, some events will just bomb compared to others if they happen to have schedule conflicts. Best example I can think of is Taiwan Open 2014 - had to compete with Destiny I, Red Bull Battlegrounds, and SPL Finals all in one weekend. People will watch because of the players, not because of the casters.

I know a lot of people are going to blast me for this, but this is one of the reasons why I like the events Gfinity has thrown for the community. They fostered their own casters Pughydude and Jorosar while doing their best to care for the players on site - despite the fact that the stream was constantly going offline. Instead of throwing away 25,000 USD on a casting crew, they focus on keeping the players in house and taken care of, I imagine.

So what can be done?
I propose that each and every offline event organizer provides one new source of talent - a person that lives close to their offline event's venue. It can be a caster or a host, or an analyst, and in order to fit this category, the said caster or host must meet the following criteria:
  • Never played any eSports title professionally.
  • Never previously made a paid appearance at an offline event.


That being said, I do not meet this criteria because I have been on airplanes to four different broadcasted events, and a 5th and 6th one here in Taipei. Adding to that, this is a win-win solution that is efficient. There would be a small "stipend" being handed out to new people who want to work in this industry while offline events maintain the high prestige that they have always had. In the context of blizzcon / SC2 we could probably see a vote for "rookie caster / host" of the year and then see them invited out to the event. Just an idea.

And with that, we end the old boys club discussion. Time for a real blog.

My new direction
This might have come as no surprise, but I'm not casting SC2 unless TeSL or another organization in Taiwan asks me to.

I have a beautiful girlfriend. Ever since I started playing / casting League of Legends she has been by my side. I've been playing more and more H1Z1 as well lately. Whenever I start my stream I have a considerably larger number of people watching me than anyone who has ever watched me play SC2. Last night I dressed up as a girl on stream and me and all of my stream viewers were laughing our asses off.

[image loading]


I don't want anyone to think that I am blaming SC2 or leaving SC2. I'll always leave it on the table. But for me, now, playing anything but SC2 has yielded more success than just playing sc2 on stream 24/7. I love the game as the gateway eSport that introduced me to eSports as a whole, but I need to give you all some insight as to how I feel about the present Sc2 environment, the people I've run across, etc. I feel like I cant watch anything casted in Korea or Europe without feeling angry about the people who crossed me or could have helped me develop professionally.

In my heart, perhaps the greatest organization that ever existed for SC2 was NASL. Everything they did put a smile on my face and made me feel welcome. They've also been perhaps the most open-minded organization I've worked with on the planet.

And once again, if any organizer wants me to cast SC2 again, I'll do it, I really will, but I need a reason to keep doing it, and I need my passion back, because the old boys killed my passion.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
Ovid
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom948 Posts
March 03 2015 11:26 GMT
#2
Perhaps it's the self important attitude and the quality of your casting that hasn't got you into the old boys club? Where did Nathanias spring from? Where did Valdes come from? I'm assuming it wasn't just pot luck and that they presented themselves well for the role they wanted to take on. Lets take BasetradeTV as an example, their community and brand name have grown from their blood sweat and tears they've come from nowhere.

There's not an old boys club for SC2 players either, the players that get invited are top quality and are often the ones that get to the later stages, also for the majority of large tournaments you have to qualify.

This blog just makes you sound bitter that you're not rolling in money from something you are/were "passionate" about.

I apologise if this came off harsh.
I will make Yogg Saron priest work...
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 12:12:42
March 03 2015 11:59 GMT
#3
On March 03 2015 20:26 Ovid wrote:
Perhaps it's the self important attitude and the quality of your casting that hasn't got you into the old boys club? Where did Nathanias spring from? Where did Valdes come from? I'm assuming it wasn't just pot luck and that they presented themselves well for the role they wanted to take on. Lets take BasetradeTV as an example, their community and brand name have grown from their blood sweat and tears they've come from nowhere.

There's not an old boys club for SC2 players either, the players that get invited are top quality and are often the ones that get to the later stages, also for the majority of large tournaments you have to qualify.

This blog just makes you sound bitter that you're not rolling in money from something you are/were "passionate" about.

I apologise if this came off harsh.

You are sadly delusioned if you really believe that caster selection is 100% merits and hard work. The old boys club is real.

No one gave a fuck about me waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row, 2 years ago to provide an English stream without qualifying for twitch partnership. People who have never even tried to become casters or applied for casting positions or even wanted to become casters have become casters based on who they know and that's it.

On top of that, I went to college. I have education. I have been superceded by people who haven't been just because "They are very famous."

P.S. if you knew anything about valdes, which I do and you do not, then you would know he was pot luck and that's it.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 12:03:09
March 03 2015 12:00 GMT
#4
Seriously, I read through the thing, and it feels like "Old boy's club sucks since I'm not invited. Look, I go somewhere else and am very successful". Well, then please do, enjoy your time in other games.

At least for me I can say that I value your hard work for the taiwanese scene. But hey, I do not really care for the Taiwanese (or the chinese) scene. So does the majority of the community I think. I also do not like your casting (but that is 100% a subjective matter) so I am actually glad you're not casting any Dreamhacks or similar events. Nor do I enjoy Pughy or Jorosar as much as Day9 or Tastosis. Whelp. As for me, the "old boy's club" (if it exists which I doubt) is great.
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 12:10:42
March 03 2015 12:09 GMT
#5
As far as the "old boys" club goes I feel its more of a trust thing as far as business goes; you would rather put your money (literally) on someone that has already proven themselves a trustworthy than bet on someone who promises potential. It sucks but that's the thing, its all business, you invest money and expect profit from it. I'm sure if you were in the same position you wouldn't make much of a different choice.

Also I say old boys club in quotations because that shit hasn't realistically existed since the 30's with your Rockefeller's and your Carnegie's.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 12:19:22
March 03 2015 12:13 GMT
#6
On March 03 2015 21:09 Kazahk wrote:
As far as the "old boys" club goes I feel its more of a trust thing as far as business goes; you would rather put your money (literally) on someone that has already proven themselves a trustworthy

The reason why I have you quoted to here is because I couldn't read the rest of the post and take it seriously.

You're talking about professionalism in an industry that heavily involves video games, and I've already exhausted professionalism.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
March 03 2015 12:15 GMT
#7
Feeling entitled doesn't lead you to anything imo.
Zest fanboy.
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
March 03 2015 12:28 GMT
#8
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
March 03 2015 13:02 GMT
#9
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote:
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.

Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...

The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 13:09:51
March 03 2015 13:05 GMT
#10
On March 03 2015 22:02 BreAKerTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote:
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.

Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...

The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.


Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)
Zest fanboy.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18856 Posts
March 03 2015 13:21 GMT
#11
Your posts have been and continue to be some of the most cringeworthy stuff on TL. Passive aggressive self-importance is not the stuff of success.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
March 03 2015 13:22 GMT
#12
On March 03 2015 22:05 sAsImre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 22:02 BreAKerTV wrote:
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote:
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.

Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...

The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.


Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)

sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.

Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14461 Posts
March 03 2015 13:31 GMT
#13
On March 03 2015 22:22 BreAKerTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 22:05 sAsImre wrote:
On March 03 2015 22:02 BreAKerTV wrote:
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote:
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.

Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...

The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.


Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)

sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.

Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.

I think I can add something. You don't cast because you want to get a fulltime esport job, you produce content because you love the game. Getting a job in esport is a great thing but it's useless if you don't like casting.
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 13:43:12
March 03 2015 13:37 GMT
#14
On March 03 2015 22:22 BreAKerTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 22:05 sAsImre wrote:
On March 03 2015 22:02 BreAKerTV wrote:
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote:
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.

Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...

The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.


Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)

sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.

Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.

You do realize that BaseTradeTV provides almost daily content, involves the community a helluva lot, implemented twitch chat features, is advertising merchandise, is leading a ridiculously active twitter life, is involving casters that absolutely do not belong to the old boy's club such as Namshar, Kane, other players, actively support the scene with prize money and self-organized tournaments (which are, opposing what you're saying, VERY professional)?

You do realize that Take is going in to the 11th round of HSC, having a professional producing crew, actually offering internships and apprenticeships in Krefeld, making a living of esports as a professonal business? Take professionalized the "lack of professionalism" you pointed out, that's the most charming and hilarious part of his tournaments. You also realize that at one point, Take even established completely unknown casters such as NarutO and he is still giving completely different casters a shot from time to time?

Do you realize that TotalBiscuit did establish ShoutCraft as a huge brand and thus made himself a huge personality in the esports business (though he's a controversial figure for some)? Do you realize that people like Olimoley manage to organize stuff and dive deep into successful tournaments without ever touching Dreamhacks, IEMs or anything else?

Do you realize that Day9 is still heavily producing his own content, keeping himself relevant? Trying out new games and shit? Do you realize that Incontrol is also working in a managing position for EG? Do you realize that Smix has been hosting Dreamhacks for years because she's actually good at it and people like here? People actually do a good job in what they do and thus, they get hired again.

I don't feel like you do. I feel more like you're doing your work for the taiwanese scene and feel salty because you think noone cares. You took one of the few free spots that there is (before you, I don't remember a particular caster/streamer really caring for the Taiwanese scene) and established yourself in that spot. Now you do not get as much recognition as others (best proof for that? Your blog is not featured on TL.) and brag about it in quite an unfair way! You're saying that all the guys who actually started low and worked hard to get in the place where they are now are actively blocking new talent from getting up to their place. That is disgusting imho.

I have never been a fan of you, nor of the taiwanese scene. That's not because of you personally but simply because of the following facts:

- you mainly cover taiwan. I don't care for Taiwan. Sorry.
- your voice is not too likeable for me (totally subjective, I know)
- every now and then, a salty post from you pops up here on TL.

Originally I didn't want to rant as much as I just realize I did, but I really feel like you're shitting on huge parts of the community and that's not okay.


why should we see the richest of the rich eSports casters get richer while other parts of offline events should suffer, including new people trying to survive in this industry?


Simply because those guys worked a lot until they were at that point. They actually deserve to make a living out of what they love. And new people trying to survive? Well, they actually do. Take my examples: BaseTradeTV. Nathanias. Moonglade as a caster. Tod as a caster. Olimoley. Hell, Pughy and Jorosar.
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
March 03 2015 13:48 GMT
#15
On March 03 2015 22:37 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 22:22 BreAKerTV wrote:
On March 03 2015 22:05 sAsImre wrote:
On March 03 2015 22:02 BreAKerTV wrote:
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote:
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.

Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...

The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.


Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)

sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.

Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.

You do realize that BaseTradeTV provides almost daily content, involves the community a helluva lot, implemented twitch chat features, is advertising merchandise, is leading a ridiculously active twitter life, is involving casters that absolutely do not belong to the old boy's club such as Namshar, Kane, other players, actively support the scene with prize money and self-organized tournaments (which are, opposing what you're saying, VERY professional)?

You do realize that Take is going in to the 11th round of HSC, having a professional producing crew, actually offering internships and apprenticeships in Krefeld, making a living of esports as a professonal business? Take professionalized the "lack of professionalism" you pointed out, that's the most charming and hilarious part of his tournaments. You also realize that at one point, Take even established completely unknown casters such as NarutO and he is still giving completely different casters a shot from time to time?

Do you realize that TotalBiscuit did establish ShoutCraft as a huge brand and thus made himself a huge personality in the esports business (though he's a controversial figure for some)? Do you realize that people like Olimoley manage to organize stuff and dive deep into successful tournaments without ever touching Dreamhacks, IEMs or anything else?

Do you realize that Day9 is still heavily producing his own content, keeping himself relevant? Trying out new games and shit? Do you realize that Incontrol is also working in a managing position for EG? Do you realize that Smix has been hosting Dreamhacks for years because she's actually good at it and people like here? People actually do a good job in what they do and thus, they get hired again.

I don't feel like you do. I feel more like you're doing your work for the taiwanese scene and feel salty because you think noone cares. You took one of the few free spots that there is (before you, I don't remember a particular caster/streamer really caring for the Taiwanese scene) and established yourself in that spot. Now you do not get as much recognition as others (best proof for that? Your blog is not featured on TL.) and brag about it in quite an unfair way! You're saying that all the guys who actually started low and worked hard to get in the place where they are now are actively blocking new talent from getting up to their place. That is disgusting imho.

I have never been a fan of you, nor of the taiwanese scene. That's not because of you personally but simply because of the following facts:

- you mainly cover taiwan. I don't care for Taiwan. Sorry.
- your voice is not too likeable for me (totally subjective, I know)
- every now and then, a salty post from you pops up here on TL.

Originally I didn't want to rant as much as I just realize I did, but I really feel like you're shitting on huge parts of the community and that's not okay.


Ok, my point with "lack of professionalism" comes from the language used on stream, the content being projected from the mouthes of casters. I fucking LOVED the Macdonald's story from Incontrol at the last HSC.

Adding to that, this is something I neglected to mention in the OP is I feel like the tone of casting has changed far too much. Does everyone here remember the hype behind MLGs / GSLs in 2011 / 2012? That stuff was amazing to listen to in terms of casting.

It just seems like the hype has died with every cast that I've seen thus far.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 13:55:36
March 03 2015 13:55 GMT
#16
On March 03 2015 22:48 BreAKerTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2015 22:37 boxerfred wrote:
On March 03 2015 22:22 BreAKerTV wrote:
On March 03 2015 22:05 sAsImre wrote:
On March 03 2015 22:02 BreAKerTV wrote:
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote:
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.

Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...

The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.


Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)

sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.

Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.

You do realize that BaseTradeTV provides almost daily content, involves the community a helluva lot, implemented twitch chat features, is advertising merchandise, is leading a ridiculously active twitter life, is involving casters that absolutely do not belong to the old boy's club such as Namshar, Kane, other players, actively support the scene with prize money and self-organized tournaments (which are, opposing what you're saying, VERY professional)?

You do realize that Take is going in to the 11th round of HSC, having a professional producing crew, actually offering internships and apprenticeships in Krefeld, making a living of esports as a professonal business? Take professionalized the "lack of professionalism" you pointed out, that's the most charming and hilarious part of his tournaments. You also realize that at one point, Take even established completely unknown casters such as NarutO and he is still giving completely different casters a shot from time to time?

Do you realize that TotalBiscuit did establish ShoutCraft as a huge brand and thus made himself a huge personality in the esports business (though he's a controversial figure for some)? Do you realize that people like Olimoley manage to organize stuff and dive deep into successful tournaments without ever touching Dreamhacks, IEMs or anything else?

Do you realize that Day9 is still heavily producing his own content, keeping himself relevant? Trying out new games and shit? Do you realize that Incontrol is also working in a managing position for EG? Do you realize that Smix has been hosting Dreamhacks for years because she's actually good at it and people like here? People actually do a good job in what they do and thus, they get hired again.

I don't feel like you do. I feel more like you're doing your work for the taiwanese scene and feel salty because you think noone cares. You took one of the few free spots that there is (before you, I don't remember a particular caster/streamer really caring for the Taiwanese scene) and established yourself in that spot. Now you do not get as much recognition as others (best proof for that? Your blog is not featured on TL.) and brag about it in quite an unfair way! You're saying that all the guys who actually started low and worked hard to get in the place where they are now are actively blocking new talent from getting up to their place. That is disgusting imho.

I have never been a fan of you, nor of the taiwanese scene. That's not because of you personally but simply because of the following facts:

- you mainly cover taiwan. I don't care for Taiwan. Sorry.
- your voice is not too likeable for me (totally subjective, I know)
- every now and then, a salty post from you pops up here on TL.

Originally I didn't want to rant as much as I just realize I did, but I really feel like you're shitting on huge parts of the community and that's not okay.


Ok, my point with "lack of professionalism" comes from the language used on stream, the content being projected from the mouthes of casters. I fucking LOVED the Macdonald's story from Incontrol at the last HSC.

Adding to that, this is something I neglected to mention in the OP is I feel like the tone of casting has changed far too much. Does everyone here remember the hype behind MLGs / GSLs in 2011 / 2012? That stuff was amazing to listen to in terms of casting.

It just seems like the hype has died with every cast that I've seen thus far.

You're overgeneralizing I think. Remember Scarlett vs. Bomber, RedBull Battlegrounds? Or Blizzcon 2014? Was pretty hyped. Then, Dreamhack, with the Naniwa/Life storyline? I think up to a certain extent, you are right, lots of cast feel like routine these days, but that's what they actually are. How to hype up Go4sc2 #2312? How to hype up the hundredst game of Swarmhosts vP/vMech? The community shrunk a bit, but also grew older (subjective feeling). Stuff calmed down, nothing is new. We're used to have a certain quality of games and quickly judge games that do not include that quality. If a caster goes for a fakehype / tactical hype then, the LR is full of "lol that caster sucks". I think Wolf is a pretty decent example for that.

Then again, "language used on stream" - well, it's still casting video games, why not loosen the language a bit?
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 15:23:53
March 03 2015 14:41 GMT
#17
So short story is that you're salty that established SC2 orgs and casters didn't immediatly pick you up as one of them. Well, guess what, you've got to work, and work well, and be professional (which includes not making salty blogs) in order to succeed. I really don't get your Old Boys Club thingy, because if you think that someone like Apollo didn't create fucktons of content and didn't work a lot on his casting before becoming pretty much one of the most seen and heard caster in the scene right now, you're being delusional. Saying that they are less qualified than you is pretty insulting as well. A guy like Apollo has 147 videos on his YT account, averaging 20:00 in lenght for each and made to help people at SC2, and countless hours spent casting or preparing his casts. A guy like TaKe or Pomf&Thud created whole companies, and are living off of them, from literally nothing but love for the game. BasetradeTV is a regular content provider, providing tournaments and casting. Same for TB, who also supports the scene by being a team owner and manager. Day9 made ~1 hours of DAILY content for several YEARS. Guys like Moonglade or ToD got casting gigs because they were pro players. Wolf was said to be a terrible caster last year, ate several humiliations, but is still going strong and has improved, because he put WORK into it and provided content instead of complaining. Where is your content?

No, no one gave a fuck about you waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row, 2 years ago to provide an English stream without qualifying for twitch partnership. Because people won't judge you on the efforts you make, but on the results you produce. If you failed, it's either because you targeted the wrong audience (honestly I'm not sure there are many EU/NA viewers interested in the Taiwanese scene) or because your work was subpar in either quality or quantity. The fact that you went to college and have an education is pretty much irrelevant, this is eSports casting we're talking about.

Additionally saying that you worked harder than the established casters but got "shot down" is not a productive nor professional mindset but, forgive me this expression, a Naniwesque mindset.

edit : and I mean the last part of your blog reads like "Look, now I am happy and successful, and I can say that SC2 sucks. How bad does that make you feel?". What's the point of this?

edit² : sorry if my post sounds harsh, but what you're basically saying is that guys like Tastosis, Apollo, etc etc are less qualified than you and are just lucky chaps, which I find is a pretty bold claim to make.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
March 03 2015 15:42 GMT
#18
On March 03 2015 23:41 OtherWorld wrote:
So short story is that you're salty that established SC2 orgs and casters didn't immediatly pick you up as one of them. Well, guess what, you've got to work, and work well, and be professional (which includes not making salty blogs) in order to succeed. I really don't get your Old Boys Club thingy, because if you think that someone like Apollo didn't create fucktons of content and didn't work a lot on his casting before becoming pretty much one of the most seen and heard caster in the scene right now, you're being delusional.


Actually, no. I just wanted every single event I could get in China and Taiwan. I hopped on with SC2 casting at its height in 2012. I was too late to go mainstream, and in many ways I was blinded by money and games and tournaments.

Saying that they are less qualified than you is pretty insulting as well. A guy like Apollo has 147 videos on his YT account, averaging 20:00 in lenght for each and made to help people at SC2, and countless hours spent casting or preparing his casts. A guy like TaKe or Pomf&Thud created whole companies, and are living off of them, from literally nothing but love for the game.

I addressed in my previous blog that I am not the product that people want. Dont misinterpret what I am saying either. If you want to compare how many SC2 VODs I have on my channel, well you can see that here: http://www.youtube.com/exebreaker

Some of my VODs are god awful, some of them are pretty decent.

This is already getting a bit out of hand because I am projecting one message, and others are reading it as another one.


BasetradeTV is a regular content provider, providing tournaments and casting. Same for TB, who also supports the scene by being a team owner and manager. Day9 made ~1 hours of DAILY content for several YEARS. Guys like Moonglade or ToD got casting gigs because they were pro players. Wolf was said to be a terrible caster last year, ate several humiliations, but is still going strong and has improved, because he put WORK into it and provided content instead of complaining. Where is your content?
I LOVE TOTAL BISCUIT, don't misinterpret what I am saying, again, please. I basically said that I can't watch EU or KR stuff without getting angry at some of the guys who burned me.

No, no one gave a fuck about you waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row, 2 years ago to provide an English stream without qualifying for twitch partnership. Because people won't judge you on the efforts you make, but on the results you produce. If you failed, it's either because you targeted the wrong audience (honestly I'm not sure there are many EU/NA viewers interested in the Taiwanese scene) or because your work was subpar in either quality or quantity. The fact that you went to college and have an education is pretty much irrelevant, this is eSports casting we're talking about.

Additionally saying that you worked harder than the established casters but got "shot down" is not a productive nor professional mindset but, forgive me this expression, a Naniwesque mindset.

edit : and I mean the last part of your blog reads like "Look, now I am happy and successful, and I can say that SC2 sucks. How bad does that make you feel?". What's the point of this?

edit² : sorry if my post sounds harsh, but what you're basically saying is that guys like Tastosis, Apollo, etc etc are less qualified than you and are just lucky chaps, which I find is a pretty bold claim to make.


I think this video post will speak above all else to you:



I followed every piece of advice I was given by this guy for over a year. It got me almost nowhere.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-03 15:52:32
March 03 2015 15:51 GMT
#19
You sound incredibly salty that sc2 fans overall don't appreciate your content.
Before i would accuse anyone in the industry of "burning you", maybe you should instead think about WHY people don't really seem to enjoy your casting/videos.
It's always easy to blame others.
It might be hard to admit your own faults (i think everybody knows this feeling), but ultimately you are responsible for almost everything that happens to you (good or bad).
So yeah, gl with whatever you wanna do in the future i guess!
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
March 03 2015 15:51 GMT
#20
On March 03 2015 20:59 BreAKerTV wrote:
On top of that, I went to college. I have education. I have been superceded by people who haven't been just because "They are very famous."


and so the world owes you something just because you have an empty credential?
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 29
StarCraft: Brood War
910 399
Pusan 253
ggaemo 151
Nal_rA 88
Killer 61
Larva 60
ToSsGirL 20
Bale 18
League of Legends
JimRising 618
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss392
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor131
Other Games
summit1g13111
WinterStarcraft523
ceh9412
crisheroes0
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL3439
Other Games
BasetradeTV173
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt458
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
2h 15m
Wardi Open
3h 15m
Replay Cast
16h 15m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 2h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 16h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.