Hello everyone. This is that follow up blog to what I've always wanted to blog about - The Old Boys Club.
What is The Old Boys Club? I google searched a definition that yielded the following results: + Show Spoiler +
old boys'club: an informal system by which money and power are retained by wealthy white men through incestuous business relationships. It is not necessarily purposeful or malicious, but the Old Boy’s Network can prevent women and minorities from being truly successful in the business world. It entails establishing business relationships on high-priced golf courses, at exclusive country clubs, in the executive sky-boxes at sporting events, through private fraternities or social clubs, et cetera. These are arenas from which women and minorities are traditionally excluded and thus are not privy to the truly serious business transactions or conversations.
I think perhaps the definition I recovered from Google is perhaps too broad, so let us scale it down in to the realm of the Starcraft 2 scene, adding to its relevancy (no offense to Smix, but I think she falls in to the realm of the Old Boys Club of SC2 although she doesn't fit in to the definition in spoilers above). I think it can refer to one of the two phenomena:
Players that were consistently and repeatedly invited to WCS 4000 Point events with 75% invites in 2013 and 2014 or...
A group of casters / hosts / analysts that constantly and consistently make paid appearances at offline events that may or may not be worth WCS points for Starcraft 2.
For our purposes, we will refer to casters / hosts / analysts. If you are going to work hard in eSports and eventually receive a salaried / paid position for doing some form of work or labor for an organization in eSports you will eventually make contact with a few members of the Old Boys Club - in person or online. Some of them are great to talk to, both on camera and off camera, and can yield you some amazing sources of inspiration. Some of them, after your first time talking to them, might make you consider speaking to a toilet before ever talking to them again.
So, is this a problem? Why are you talking about this? I realize this is a first world problem, but (perhaps I am over-generalizing here), why should we see the richest of the rich eSports casters get richer while other parts of offline events should suffer, including new people trying to survive in this industry? I would like to see a system in place that protects new talent - people who are not pro gamers, people who have never been pro gamers, and people who have worked hard to prove that they want to do something in eSports besides sit around and watch. Tournament organizers also have an obligation to their sponsors, to the people who give them finances (what some would call "dirty eSports money") to spend efficiently, without wasting money. There are people who are dying to become casters, an absolute "flood of talent" as R1CH once said to me. Adding to that, some events will just bomb compared to others if they happen to have schedule conflicts. Best example I can think of is Taiwan Open 2014 - had to compete with Destiny I, Red Bull Battlegrounds, and SPL Finals all in one weekend. People will watch because of the players, not because of the casters.
I know a lot of people are going to blast me for this, but this is one of the reasons why I like the events Gfinity has thrown for the community. They fostered their own casters Pughydude and Jorosar while doing their best to care for the players on site - despite the fact that the stream was constantly going offline. Instead of throwing away 25,000 USD on a casting crew, they focus on keeping the players in house and taken care of, I imagine.
So what can be done? I propose that each and every offline event organizer provides one new source of talent - a person that lives close to their offline event's venue. It can be a caster or a host, or an analyst, and in order to fit this category, the said caster or host must meet the following criteria:
Never played any eSports title professionally.
Never previously made a paid appearance at an offline event.
That being said, I do not meet this criteria because I have been on airplanes to four different broadcasted events, and a 5th and 6th one here in Taipei. Adding to that, this is a win-win solution that is efficient. There would be a small "stipend" being handed out to new people who want to work in this industry while offline events maintain the high prestige that they have always had. In the context of blizzcon / SC2 we could probably see a vote for "rookie caster / host" of the year and then see them invited out to the event. Just an idea.
And with that, we end the old boys club discussion. Time for a real blog.
My new direction This might have come as no surprise, but I'm not casting SC2 unless TeSL or another organization in Taiwan asks me to.
I have a beautiful girlfriend. Ever since I started playing / casting League of Legends she has been by my side. I've been playing more and more H1Z1 as well lately. Whenever I start my stream I have a considerably larger number of people watching me than anyone who has ever watched me play SC2. Last night I dressed up as a girl on stream and me and all of my stream viewers were laughing our asses off.
I don't want anyone to think that I am blaming SC2 or leaving SC2. I'll always leave it on the table. But for me, now, playing anything but SC2 has yielded more success than just playing sc2 on stream 24/7. I love the game as the gateway eSport that introduced me to eSports as a whole, but I need to give you all some insight as to how I feel about the present Sc2 environment, the people I've run across, etc. I feel like I cant watch anything casted in Korea or Europe without feeling angry about the people who crossed me or could have helped me develop professionally.
In my heart, perhaps the greatest organization that ever existed for SC2 was NASL. Everything they did put a smile on my face and made me feel welcome. They've also been perhaps the most open-minded organization I've worked with on the planet.
And once again, if any organizer wants me to cast SC2 again, I'll do it, I really will, but I need a reason to keep doing it, and I need my passion back, because the old boys killed my passion.
Perhaps it's the self important attitude and the quality of your casting that hasn't got you into the old boys club? Where did Nathanias spring from? Where did Valdes come from? I'm assuming it wasn't just pot luck and that they presented themselves well for the role they wanted to take on. Lets take BasetradeTV as an example, their community and brand name have grown from their blood sweat and tears they've come from nowhere.
There's not an old boys club for SC2 players either, the players that get invited are top quality and are often the ones that get to the later stages, also for the majority of large tournaments you have to qualify.
This blog just makes you sound bitter that you're not rolling in money from something you are/were "passionate" about.
On March 03 2015 20:26 Ovid wrote: Perhaps it's the self important attitude and the quality of your casting that hasn't got you into the old boys club? Where did Nathanias spring from? Where did Valdes come from? I'm assuming it wasn't just pot luck and that they presented themselves well for the role they wanted to take on. Lets take BasetradeTV as an example, their community and brand name have grown from their blood sweat and tears they've come from nowhere.
There's not an old boys club for SC2 players either, the players that get invited are top quality and are often the ones that get to the later stages, also for the majority of large tournaments you have to qualify.
This blog just makes you sound bitter that you're not rolling in money from something you are/were "passionate" about.
I apologise if this came off harsh.
You are sadly delusioned if you really believe that caster selection is 100% merits and hard work. The old boys club is real.
No one gave a fuck about me waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row, 2 years ago to provide an English stream without qualifying for twitch partnership. People who have never even tried to become casters or applied for casting positions or even wanted to become casters have become casters based on who they know and that's it.
On top of that, I went to college. I have education. I have been superceded by people who haven't been just because "They are very famous."
P.S. if you knew anything about valdes, which I do and you do not, then you would know he was pot luck and that's it.
Seriously, I read through the thing, and it feels like "Old boy's club sucks since I'm not invited. Look, I go somewhere else and am very successful". Well, then please do, enjoy your time in other games.
At least for me I can say that I value your hard work for the taiwanese scene. But hey, I do not really care for the Taiwanese (or the chinese) scene. So does the majority of the community I think. I also do not like your casting (but that is 100% a subjective matter) so I am actually glad you're not casting any Dreamhacks or similar events. Nor do I enjoy Pughy or Jorosar as much as Day9 or Tastosis. Whelp. As for me, the "old boy's club" (if it exists which I doubt) is great.
As far as the "old boys" club goes I feel its more of a trust thing as far as business goes; you would rather put your money (literally) on someone that has already proven themselves a trustworthy than bet on someone who promises potential. It sucks but that's the thing, its all business, you invest money and expect profit from it. I'm sure if you were in the same position you wouldn't make much of a different choice.
Also I say old boys club in quotations because that shit hasn't realistically existed since the 30's with your Rockefeller's and your Carnegie's.
On March 03 2015 21:09 Kazahk wrote: As far as the "old boys" club goes I feel its more of a trust thing as far as business goes; you would rather put your money (literally) on someone that has already proven themselves a trustworthy
The reason why I have you quoted to here is because I couldn't read the rest of the post and take it seriously.
You're talking about professionalism in an industry that heavily involves video games, and I've already exhausted professionalism.
Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote: Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...
The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote: Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...
The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote: Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...
The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)
sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.
Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote: Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...
The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)
sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.
Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.
I think I can add something. You don't cast because you want to get a fulltime esport job, you produce content because you love the game. Getting a job in esport is a great thing but it's useless if you don't like casting.
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote: Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...
The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)
sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.
Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.
You do realize that BaseTradeTV provides almost daily content, involves the community a helluva lot, implemented twitch chat features, is advertising merchandise, is leading a ridiculously active twitter life, is involving casters that absolutely do not belong to the old boy's club such as Namshar, Kane, other players, actively support the scene with prize money and self-organized tournaments (which are, opposing what you're saying, VERY professional)?
You do realize that Take is going in to the 11th round of HSC, having a professional producing crew, actually offering internships and apprenticeships in Krefeld, making a living of esports as a professonal business? Take professionalized the "lack of professionalism" you pointed out, that's the most charming and hilarious part of his tournaments. You also realize that at one point, Take even established completely unknown casters such as NarutO and he is still giving completely different casters a shot from time to time?
Do you realize that TotalBiscuit did establish ShoutCraft as a huge brand and thus made himself a huge personality in the esports business (though he's a controversial figure for some)? Do you realize that people like Olimoley manage to organize stuff and dive deep into successful tournaments without ever touching Dreamhacks, IEMs or anything else?
Do you realize that Day9 is still heavily producing his own content, keeping himself relevant? Trying out new games and shit? Do you realize that Incontrol is also working in a managing position for EG? Do you realize that Smix has been hosting Dreamhacks for years because she's actually good at it and people like here? People actually do a good job in what they do and thus, they get hired again.
I don't feel like you do. I feel more like you're doing your work for the taiwanese scene and feel salty because you think noone cares. You took one of the few free spots that there is (before you, I don't remember a particular caster/streamer really caring for the Taiwanese scene) and established yourself in that spot. Now you do not get as much recognition as others (best proof for that? Your blog is not featured on TL.) and brag about it in quite an unfair way! You're saying that all the guys who actually started low and worked hard to get in the place where they are now are actively blocking new talent from getting up to their place. That is disgusting imho.
I have never been a fan of you, nor of the taiwanese scene. That's not because of you personally but simply because of the following facts:
- you mainly cover taiwan. I don't care for Taiwan. Sorry. - your voice is not too likeable for me (totally subjective, I know) - every now and then, a salty post from you pops up here on TL.
Originally I didn't want to rant as much as I just realize I did, but I really feel like you're shitting on huge parts of the community and that's not okay.
why should we see the richest of the rich eSports casters get richer while other parts of offline events should suffer, including new people trying to survive in this industry?
Simply because those guys worked a lot until they were at that point. They actually deserve to make a living out of what they love. And new people trying to survive? Well, they actually do. Take my examples: BaseTradeTV. Nathanias. Moonglade as a caster. Tod as a caster. Olimoley. Hell, Pughy and Jorosar.
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote: Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...
The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)
sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.
Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.
You do realize that BaseTradeTV provides almost daily content, involves the community a helluva lot, implemented twitch chat features, is advertising merchandise, is leading a ridiculously active twitter life, is involving casters that absolutely do not belong to the old boy's club such as Namshar, Kane, other players, actively support the scene with prize money and self-organized tournaments (which are, opposing what you're saying, VERY professional)?
You do realize that Take is going in to the 11th round of HSC, having a professional producing crew, actually offering internships and apprenticeships in Krefeld, making a living of esports as a professonal business? Take professionalized the "lack of professionalism" you pointed out, that's the most charming and hilarious part of his tournaments. You also realize that at one point, Take even established completely unknown casters such as NarutO and he is still giving completely different casters a shot from time to time?
Do you realize that TotalBiscuit did establish ShoutCraft as a huge brand and thus made himself a huge personality in the esports business (though he's a controversial figure for some)? Do you realize that people like Olimoley manage to organize stuff and dive deep into successful tournaments without ever touching Dreamhacks, IEMs or anything else?
Do you realize that Day9 is still heavily producing his own content, keeping himself relevant? Trying out new games and shit? Do you realize that Incontrol is also working in a managing position for EG? Do you realize that Smix has been hosting Dreamhacks for years because she's actually good at it and people like here? People actually do a good job in what they do and thus, they get hired again.
I don't feel like you do. I feel more like you're doing your work for the taiwanese scene and feel salty because you think noone cares. You took one of the few free spots that there is (before you, I don't remember a particular caster/streamer really caring for the Taiwanese scene) and established yourself in that spot. Now you do not get as much recognition as others (best proof for that? Your blog is not featured on TL.) and brag about it in quite an unfair way! You're saying that all the guys who actually started low and worked hard to get in the place where they are now are actively blocking new talent from getting up to their place. That is disgusting imho.
I have never been a fan of you, nor of the taiwanese scene. That's not because of you personally but simply because of the following facts:
- you mainly cover taiwan. I don't care for Taiwan. Sorry. - your voice is not too likeable for me (totally subjective, I know) - every now and then, a salty post from you pops up here on TL.
Originally I didn't want to rant as much as I just realize I did, but I really feel like you're shitting on huge parts of the community and that's not okay.
Ok, my point with "lack of professionalism" comes from the language used on stream, the content being projected from the mouthes of casters. I fucking LOVED the Macdonald's story from Incontrol at the last HSC.
Adding to that, this is something I neglected to mention in the OP is I feel like the tone of casting has changed far too much. Does everyone here remember the hype behind MLGs / GSLs in 2011 / 2012? That stuff was amazing to listen to in terms of casting.
It just seems like the hype has died with every cast that I've seen thus far.
On March 03 2015 21:28 Kazahk wrote: Well I am sorry you feel that way. Also are you saying video games shouldn't be taken professionally? If you feel that your not getting the credit you deserve then move on just as you have; then again why take my advice I'm just some random loser drunk at 6:30 in the morning.
Personally, if you guys look at Basetrade and Homestory cup, these tournaments...
The whole reason why they have more viewership than most IEM events (except maybe IEM WC or blizzcon) is because of the major LACK of professionalism.
Show me when a basetrade tournament does 30k+ which is a low a viewer count for an IEM. (and I love what BasetradeTV does)
sorry i overgeneralized again. But i think everyone has seen basetradetv surpass esltv in viewership for qualifiers for iem events. i dont paint rifkin and the crew as members of the old boys club, nor did i mention them in my op if im not mistaken Graham has told me that he has never felt obliged for an offline event.
Is there anyone really opposed to my ideas? i mean, i want to see others work as hard as i have without being shot down, without failing, and without less qualified people surpassing them.
You do realize that BaseTradeTV provides almost daily content, involves the community a helluva lot, implemented twitch chat features, is advertising merchandise, is leading a ridiculously active twitter life, is involving casters that absolutely do not belong to the old boy's club such as Namshar, Kane, other players, actively support the scene with prize money and self-organized tournaments (which are, opposing what you're saying, VERY professional)?
You do realize that Take is going in to the 11th round of HSC, having a professional producing crew, actually offering internships and apprenticeships in Krefeld, making a living of esports as a professonal business? Take professionalized the "lack of professionalism" you pointed out, that's the most charming and hilarious part of his tournaments. You also realize that at one point, Take even established completely unknown casters such as NarutO and he is still giving completely different casters a shot from time to time?
Do you realize that TotalBiscuit did establish ShoutCraft as a huge brand and thus made himself a huge personality in the esports business (though he's a controversial figure for some)? Do you realize that people like Olimoley manage to organize stuff and dive deep into successful tournaments without ever touching Dreamhacks, IEMs or anything else?
Do you realize that Day9 is still heavily producing his own content, keeping himself relevant? Trying out new games and shit? Do you realize that Incontrol is also working in a managing position for EG? Do you realize that Smix has been hosting Dreamhacks for years because she's actually good at it and people like here? People actually do a good job in what they do and thus, they get hired again.
I don't feel like you do. I feel more like you're doing your work for the taiwanese scene and feel salty because you think noone cares. You took one of the few free spots that there is (before you, I don't remember a particular caster/streamer really caring for the Taiwanese scene) and established yourself in that spot. Now you do not get as much recognition as others (best proof for that? Your blog is not featured on TL.) and brag about it in quite an unfair way! You're saying that all the guys who actually started low and worked hard to get in the place where they are now are actively blocking new talent from getting up to their place. That is disgusting imho.
I have never been a fan of you, nor of the taiwanese scene. That's not because of you personally but simply because of the following facts:
- you mainly cover taiwan. I don't care for Taiwan. Sorry. - your voice is not too likeable for me (totally subjective, I know) - every now and then, a salty post from you pops up here on TL.
Originally I didn't want to rant as much as I just realize I did, but I really feel like you're shitting on huge parts of the community and that's not okay.
Ok, my point with "lack of professionalism" comes from the language used on stream, the content being projected from the mouthes of casters. I fucking LOVED the Macdonald's story from Incontrol at the last HSC.
Adding to that, this is something I neglected to mention in the OP is I feel like the tone of casting has changed far too much. Does everyone here remember the hype behind MLGs / GSLs in 2011 / 2012? That stuff was amazing to listen to in terms of casting.
It just seems like the hype has died with every cast that I've seen thus far.
You're overgeneralizing I think. Remember Scarlett vs. Bomber, RedBull Battlegrounds? Or Blizzcon 2014? Was pretty hyped. Then, Dreamhack, with the Naniwa/Life storyline? I think up to a certain extent, you are right, lots of cast feel like routine these days, but that's what they actually are. How to hype up Go4sc2 #2312? How to hype up the hundredst game of Swarmhosts vP/vMech? The community shrunk a bit, but also grew older (subjective feeling). Stuff calmed down, nothing is new. We're used to have a certain quality of games and quickly judge games that do not include that quality. If a caster goes for a fakehype / tactical hype then, the LR is full of "lol that caster sucks". I think Wolf is a pretty decent example for that.
Then again, "language used on stream" - well, it's still casting video games, why not loosen the language a bit?
So short story is that you're salty that established SC2 orgs and casters didn't immediatly pick you up as one of them. Well, guess what, you've got to work, and work well, and be professional (which includes not making salty blogs) in order to succeed. I really don't get your Old Boys Club thingy, because if you think that someone like Apollo didn't create fucktons of content and didn't work a lot on his casting before becoming pretty much one of the most seen and heard caster in the scene right now, you're being delusional. Saying that they are less qualified than you is pretty insulting as well. A guy like Apollo has 147 videos on his YT account, averaging 20:00 in lenght for each and made to help people at SC2, and countless hours spent casting or preparing his casts. A guy like TaKe or Pomf&Thud created whole companies, and are living off of them, from literally nothing but love for the game. BasetradeTV is a regular content provider, providing tournaments and casting. Same for TB, who also supports the scene by being a team owner and manager. Day9 made ~1 hours of DAILY content for several YEARS. Guys like Moonglade or ToD got casting gigs because they were pro players. Wolf was said to be a terrible caster last year, ate several humiliations, but is still going strong and has improved, because he put WORK into it and provided content instead of complaining. Where is your content?
No, no one gave a fuck about you waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row, 2 years ago to provide an English stream without qualifying for twitch partnership. Because people won't judge you on the efforts you make, but on the results you produce. If you failed, it's either because you targeted the wrong audience (honestly I'm not sure there are many EU/NA viewers interested in the Taiwanese scene) or because your work was subpar in either quality or quantity. The fact that you went to college and have an education is pretty much irrelevant, this is eSports casting we're talking about.
Additionally saying that you worked harder than the established casters but got "shot down" is not a productive nor professional mindset but, forgive me this expression, a Naniwesque mindset.
edit : and I mean the last part of your blog reads like "Look, now I am happy and successful, and I can say that SC2 sucks. How bad does that make you feel?". What's the point of this?
edit² : sorry if my post sounds harsh, but what you're basically saying is that guys like Tastosis, Apollo, etc etc are less qualified than you and are just lucky chaps, which I find is a pretty bold claim to make.
On March 03 2015 23:41 OtherWorld wrote: So short story is that you're salty that established SC2 orgs and casters didn't immediatly pick you up as one of them. Well, guess what, you've got to work, and work well, and be professional (which includes not making salty blogs) in order to succeed. I really don't get your Old Boys Club thingy, because if you think that someone like Apollo didn't create fucktons of content and didn't work a lot on his casting before becoming pretty much one of the most seen and heard caster in the scene right now, you're being delusional.
Actually, no. I just wanted every single event I could get in China and Taiwan. I hopped on with SC2 casting at its height in 2012. I was too late to go mainstream, and in many ways I was blinded by money and games and tournaments.
Saying that they are less qualified than you is pretty insulting as well. A guy like Apollo has 147 videos on his YT account, averaging 20:00 in lenght for each and made to help people at SC2, and countless hours spent casting or preparing his casts. A guy like TaKe or Pomf&Thud created whole companies, and are living off of them, from literally nothing but love for the game.
I addressed in my previous blog that I am not the product that people want. Dont misinterpret what I am saying either. If you want to compare how many SC2 VODs I have on my channel, well you can see that here: http://www.youtube.com/exebreaker
Some of my VODs are god awful, some of them are pretty decent.
This is already getting a bit out of hand because I am projecting one message, and others are reading it as another one.
BasetradeTV is a regular content provider, providing tournaments and casting. Same for TB, who also supports the scene by being a team owner and manager. Day9 made ~1 hours of DAILY content for several YEARS. Guys like Moonglade or ToD got casting gigs because they were pro players. Wolf was said to be a terrible caster last year, ate several humiliations, but is still going strong and has improved, because he put WORK into it and provided content instead of complaining. Where is your content?
I LOVE TOTAL BISCUIT, don't misinterpret what I am saying, again, please. I basically said that I can't watch EU or KR stuff without getting angry at some of the guys who burned me.
No, no one gave a fuck about you waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row, 2 years ago to provide an English stream without qualifying for twitch partnership. Because people won't judge you on the efforts you make, but on the results you produce. If you failed, it's either because you targeted the wrong audience (honestly I'm not sure there are many EU/NA viewers interested in the Taiwanese scene) or because your work was subpar in either quality or quantity. The fact that you went to college and have an education is pretty much irrelevant, this is eSports casting we're talking about.
Additionally saying that you worked harder than the established casters but got "shot down" is not a productive nor professional mindset but, forgive me this expression, a Naniwesque mindset.
edit : and I mean the last part of your blog reads like "Look, now I am happy and successful, and I can say that SC2 sucks. How bad does that make you feel?". What's the point of this?
edit² : sorry if my post sounds harsh, but what you're basically saying is that guys like Tastosis, Apollo, etc etc are less qualified than you and are just lucky chaps, which I find is a pretty bold claim to make.
I think this video post will speak above all else to you:
I followed every piece of advice I was given by this guy for over a year. It got me almost nowhere.
You sound incredibly salty that sc2 fans overall don't appreciate your content. Before i would accuse anyone in the industry of "burning you", maybe you should instead think about WHY people don't really seem to enjoy your casting/videos. It's always easy to blame others. It might be hard to admit your own faults (i think everybody knows this feeling), but ultimately you are responsible for almost everything that happens to you (good or bad). So yeah, gl with whatever you wanna do in the future i guess!
On March 03 2015 20:59 BreAKerTV wrote: On top of that, I went to college. I have education. I have been superceded by people who haven't been just because "They are very famous."
and so the world owes you something just because you have an empty credential?
No one gave a fuck about me waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row
On top of that, I went to college. I have education.
This blog is satire or something, right? I mean, if that's your definition of 'long and dedicated hard work' and 'great credentials', it's not exactly surprising to see why you aren't exactly a fountain of success, in SC2 or elsewhere.. you sound like a real cool person to work with, too lol
On top of that, I went to college. I have education.
This blog is satire or something, right? I mean, if that's your definition of 'long and dedicated hard work' and 'great credentials', it's not exactly surprising to see why you aren't exactly a fountain of success, in SC2 or elsewhere.. you sound like a real cool person to work with, too lol
Well，if you want, I can post my SC2 casting resume in spoilers:
Other Relevant Information: Member of the Taiwanese Pro team yoe Flash Wolves, by the title of Caster, Host, Translator, and International Liaison. Date: 11/03/2013 – 11/20/2014 Employee of CM Storm - January 2013 – September 2014 Employed by ESL-Asia (Turtle Entertainment) November to December of 2013. Credentials and Academic Achievements: Food Handler’s permit valid for the state of Oklahoma – Earned May 02 2013 HSK Level IV 汉语水平考试四级 –Chinese proficiency Test level 4 Competency and fluency achieved in Mandarin Chinese to a degree that one may study any major in a Chinese university. Bachelor Of Arts Degree Awarded by the University of Oklahoma – Awarded December 2013
On March 03 2015 23:41 OtherWorld wrote: So short story is that you're salty that established SC2 orgs and casters didn't immediatly pick you up as one of them. Well, guess what, you've got to work, and work well, and be professional (which includes not making salty blogs) in order to succeed. I really don't get your Old Boys Club thingy, because if you think that someone like Apollo didn't create fucktons of content and didn't work a lot on his casting before becoming pretty much one of the most seen and heard caster in the scene right now, you're being delusional.
Actually, no. I just wanted every single event I could get in China and Taiwan. I hopped on with SC2 casting at its height in 2012. I was too late to go mainstream, and in many ways I was blinded by money and games and tournaments.
Saying that they are less qualified than you is pretty insulting as well. A guy like Apollo has 147 videos on his YT account, averaging 20:00 in lenght for each and made to help people at SC2, and countless hours spent casting or preparing his casts. A guy like TaKe or Pomf&Thud created whole companies, and are living off of them, from literally nothing but love for the game.
I addressed in my previous blog that I am not the product that people want. Dont misinterpret what I am saying either. If you want to compare how many SC2 VODs I have on my channel, well you can see that here: http://www.youtube.com/exebreaker
Some of my VODs are god awful, some of them are pretty decent.
This is already getting a bit out of hand because I am projecting one message, and others are reading it as another one.
BasetradeTV is a regular content provider, providing tournaments and casting. Same for TB, who also supports the scene by being a team owner and manager. Day9 made ~1 hours of DAILY content for several YEARS. Guys like Moonglade or ToD got casting gigs because they were pro players. Wolf was said to be a terrible caster last year, ate several humiliations, but is still going strong and has improved, because he put WORK into it and provided content instead of complaining. Where is your content?
I LOVE TOTAL BISCUIT, don't misinterpret what I am saying, again, please. I basically said that I can't watch EU or KR stuff without getting angry at some of the guys who burned me.
No, no one gave a fuck about you waking up at 3:00 in the morning 4 times a week, for four weeks in a row, 2 years ago to provide an English stream without qualifying for twitch partnership. Because people won't judge you on the efforts you make, but on the results you produce. If you failed, it's either because you targeted the wrong audience (honestly I'm not sure there are many EU/NA viewers interested in the Taiwanese scene) or because your work was subpar in either quality or quantity. The fact that you went to college and have an education is pretty much irrelevant, this is eSports casting we're talking about.
Additionally saying that you worked harder than the established casters but got "shot down" is not a productive nor professional mindset but, forgive me this expression, a Naniwesque mindset.
edit : and I mean the last part of your blog reads like "Look, now I am happy and successful, and I can say that SC2 sucks. How bad does that make you feel?". What's the point of this?
edit² : sorry if my post sounds harsh, but what you're basically saying is that guys like Tastosis, Apollo, etc etc are less qualified than you and are just lucky chaps, which I find is a pretty bold claim to make.
I think this video post will speak above all else to you:
I followed every piece of advice I was given by this guy for over a year. It got me almost nowhere.
What's the message you're projecting then? I am genuinely curious about that. As for the Artosis thing, well yeah, you probably think that you followed this advice. I won't lie, I don't know much about you apart from your posts and blogs I see here on TL, but as I said above, if you failed, it's that your work is deficient either in quality or quantity. edit : and yeah I agree with boxerfred. Tbh it seems like you're a bit obsessed with success. Looking at that achievements list you linked, I see that you caster and took part in a lot of events. Why aren't you happy with that? Sure, Taiwan is not the new Korea, and thus you won't become the new Artosis, but you being a regular caster for things like TeSL or the WCS Taiwan/Hong Kong qualifiers looks like something that is not worthy of complaining about tbh)
While one can learn techniques to improve casting, I think first and foremost one has to be likeable and mediagenic. Imho, you are not. Please do not take this as a plain insult because it isn't, it is just my opinion on you. I also think Pughy isn't telegenic, but he has a certain charme that appears to me as very likeable. Posting your achievements doesn't make it any better - it's great for you to be absolutely fluent in chinese, but that probably won't help you for a fanbase. I think you should cut a clear difference:
1. behind the scenes. It is obvious that you are very involved in the taiwanese scene, having networked a lot, made tons of friends. Use that to do a job you love to do, but don't force yourself to have a measurable success.
2. on the stage (i.e. casting). Joining that imaginary club is possible. Winter actually casted Dreamhack and came to Krefeld to cast HSC. Wait, what? That guy who parts of the community dislike because they think he's viewbotting? Yeah, that guy. Don't tryhard. Have fun in what you do, that's the most important thing if you're not doing it for money.
To be honest, I think one can practice and improve as much as he ever wants or can - but if he's not made for casting because his voice sucks or his looks are bad, they will never ever be successful. You normally do not find ugly people in television or movies. Guess why. I don't want to imply that you're ugly or that your voice sucks, but I want to imply that you are appearing as good a caster as Apollo, Day9 or Artosis.
There is no surefire way to success in any area. Everyone can appreciate the sheer volume of work you have put into casting, but neither "Old Boys Club" nor any other excuse will shove away the fact that some people, no matter how hard they work, will not or can not become successful in an area. I won't comment on whether it is because of lack of ability or other factors such as the ones you outline in your blog, but you need to understand this basic fact.
On March 04 2015 01:42 Zealously wrote: There is no surefire way to success in any area. Everyone can appreciate the sheer volume of work you have put into casting, but neither "Old Boys Club" nor any other excuse will shove away the fact that some people, no matter how hard they work, will not or can not become successful in an area. I won't comment on whether it is because of lack of ability or other factors such as the ones you outline in your blog, but you need to understand this basic fact.
You're so fluent in english, that's exactly what I actually wanted to express without being hostile or anything.
On March 04 2015 01:42 Zealously wrote: There is no surefire way to success in any area. Everyone can appreciate the sheer volume of work you have put into casting, but neither "Old Boys Club" nor any other excuse will shove away the fact that some people, no matter how hard they work, will not or can not become successful in an area. I won't comment on whether it is because of lack of ability or other factors such as the ones you outline in your blog, but you need to understand this basic fact.
Hard work isn't always enough - people need to understand this and learn to deal with it.
Regardless of how credible your arguments may be, you are ruining any hopes of gaining sympathy simply by posting here. A diatribe which amounts to no more than petty, passive-aggressive potshots and self-aggrandizement sends all the wrong messages to everyone that matters.
I don't appreciate the accomplishments and hard work of others to at least not badmouth them.
I feel entitled to respect and benefits that I have not earned.
My lack of success is the fault of others; I don't take responsibility for my own failures.
Instead of solving my problems by taking positive steps within the industry, I complain to others who have no power to change my status.
I don't have the perseverance or long-term planning to get through inevitable rough patches; I give up as soon as adversity occurs.
Networking is an essential part of any business, and you don't need to be an established talking head to build it. You do have to own up to your own failings and stop blaming the world.
On March 04 2015 02:05 Grovbolle wrote: Hard work isn't always enough - people need to understand this and learn to deal with it.
Yes. Successful people don't just work hard, they work intelligently.
On March 04 2015 01:42 Zealously wrote: There is no surefire way to success in any area. Everyone can appreciate the sheer volume of work you have put into casting, but neither "Old Boys Club" nor any other excuse will shove away the fact that some people, no matter how hard they work, will not or can not become successful in an area. I won't comment on whether it is because of lack of ability or other factors such as the ones you outline in your blog, but you need to understand this basic fact.
Hard work isn't always enough - people need to understand this and learn to deal with it.
Zealously is correct. But I am being far too vague to actually assess what has happened to me over the years, the times when I was -figuratively speaking- fucked, and when I should have been selected or got totally dicked on this or that event.
I dont want anyone to look at me and think I am being salty. The truth is, I have twitch partnership now and I think I am on the road to becoming a better streamer, which is about having fun, not really so much being successful.
If there is a day when I retire, or feel that I have the right to do so, I will disclose the times when I was fucked.
As for everything SC2 and China / Taiwan related... Like I said, if anyone ever wants me to do it, I will do it. This isn't calling it quits with SC2 either. Who knows? Maybe one day my personality will change and when people consult me to do casting again, people will grow to like it (my personality, that is)?
EDIT: I donno if this will be my final post to this thread or not.
I told myself a long time ago, "If I go two years and make absolutely zero progress with casting, I'll just quit." Why two years? Axeltoss told me he was doing free coaching and stuff like that before he got hired on with MLG as a caster. Long term, I always wanted to come back here to Taiwan to work in eSports. There have been ups and downs and the first three months here in Taiwan were an emotional roller-coaster, to the extent that I had considered leaving Taiwan and going to Hong Kong for work. In the end, I chose to stay here because I signed a 2 year lease on an apartment and I have a 28 month phone contract.
On March 04 2015 01:42 Zealously wrote: There is no surefire way to success in any area. Everyone can appreciate the sheer volume of work you have put into casting, but neither "Old Boys Club" nor any other excuse will shove away the fact that some people, no matter how hard they work, will not or can not become successful in an area. I won't comment on whether it is because of lack of ability or other factors such as the ones you outline in your blog, but you need to understand this basic fact.
Hard work isn't always enough - people need to understand this and learn to deal with it.
Hard work is enough if you include "mindset" and "efficiency" in "hard work". Working 16h/day won't lead you to success 100%, but working 16h/day intelligently and with the right way of thinking will.
On March 04 2015 01:42 Zealously wrote: There is no surefire way to success in any area. Everyone can appreciate the sheer volume of work you have put into casting, but neither "Old Boys Club" nor any other excuse will shove away the fact that some people, no matter how hard they work, will not or can not become successful in an area. I won't comment on whether it is because of lack of ability or other factors such as the ones you outline in your blog, but you need to understand this basic fact.
Hard work isn't always enough - people need to understand this and learn to deal with it.
Hard work is enough if you include "mindset" and "efficiency" in "hard work". Working 16h/day won't lead you to success 100%, but working 16h/day intelligently and with the right way of thinking will.
On March 03 2015 22:37 boxerfred wrote: People actually do a good job in what they do and thus, they get hired again.
I don't feel like you do. I feel more like you're doing your work for the taiwanese scene and feel salty because you think noone cares. You took one of the few free spots that there is (before you, I don't remember a particular caster/streamer really caring for the Taiwanese scene) and established yourself in that spot. Now you do not get as much recognition as others (best proof for that? Your blog is not featured on TL.) and brag about it in quite an unfair way! You're saying that all the guys who actually started low and worked hard to get in the place where they are now are actively blocking new talent from getting up to their place. That is disgusting imho.
This pretty much sums up my perception of BreakerTV and his rants.
Did you live in Taiwan when you got your degree at Oklahoma? I went there as well. Boomer Sooner! Didn't realize you could get your Bach of Arts studying abroad. I thought they only offered Associate degree programs via online.
I've found the old boys club exists in all aspects of life. I can appreciate your frustration. I personally learned to accept it and have moved on. I've since taken a new job that pays better, if that's any indication that things can get better. (I don't work in Esports)
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good. And the lucky ones will tell you it was because of hard work.
I can appreciate your breadth and effort of work but the way life works isn't always fair. There are plenty of people who put thousands of hours of effort into their chosen hobby or career yet will never achieve the highest echelons of success and fame, either circumstance or their plan not working out. Maybe there is an "old boys club" but those are the guys who started from somewhere as well and a combination of effort, talent or the right place at the right time were involved, but quite honestly, you complaining about how you aren't in this level comes out as self-advertising and a bit selfish.
The old boys club is probably real. Just like in any profession ever, connection and networking is a huge part of being successful / getting employment. And because this community is kind of small, the ones at the top get to know each other well hence they have a bigger chance getting new casting gigs.
I really like the Taiwan scene and followed ECL and TeSL. I greatly appreciate the work you've done.
But sometimes things just aren't meant to be even if you work hard. If it was then there would be so many Korean sc2 pros who has made it even bigger etc. It requires talent within the field as well.
You can still make it big within eSports without being on camera if you want to. There are a ton of influencal people who is rarely seen like Nazgul. Maybe you should take a different direction in sc2?
Nontheless, good luck with your new streaming, happy it is working out for you. GL Breaker.
every salty blog post you make is another nail in your virtual coffin.
I have watched your stream in the past only to find your attitude condescending and your game knowledge pretty limited.
Speaking chinese or having some random college degree doesnt set you apart. Be proud of what you do/accomplish instead of being jelly of what the others do; that is what sets you apart. Set some realistic goals for yourself. Try to be a positive influence to the people around you.
dont beat yourself over it. learn from it. If you never accept you did mistakes you are never going to fix them, like avilo during the blink all-in era. Lots of people have really constructive advice for you in this thread but you keep dismissing it. Those guys are the ones who arent watching your stream because of the things they mentioned in their posts.
my 2 cents good luck.
btw you still have the ingredients to be successful in sc2 if you want to. you have Internet and #passion.
Tbh I watched your casts because I really like a lot of the Taiwanese/Chinese players. At the end of the day your commentary wasn't for me and if you're saying you followed all of Artosis's advice then I'm sorry but that's simply not true. I do however appreciate your effort to bring English content from that scene to us when nobody else would. GL in your future endeavors!
Mcduffs of ImbaTV and Rifkin of BaseTradeTV both rose to prominence without being part of the old boys club.
both guys scrapped fought and clawed their way to an important spot within the SC2 scene via hard work. Mcduffs has since left. Rifkin and BaseTradeTV is still going strong.
The world is never perfectly fair. The little IT Consulting business I've slowly built has 5 customers. With 4 of them i was their #2 choice. In each case i was substantially better qualified. When their #1 ordained choice guy messed up i was right there instantly providing impeccable service with my mouth shut.
Check out how Rifkin went from nuttin to a key broadcaster for SC2 events.
On March 04 2015 15:50 Yorkie wrote: Tbh I watched your casts because I really like a lot of the Taiwanese/Chinese players. At the end of the day your commentary wasn't for me and if you're saying you followed all of Artosis's advice then I'm sorry but that's simply not true. I do however appreciate your effort to bring English content from that scene to us when nobody else would. GL in your future endeavors!
Idk bruh you seem quite unreasonably salty about not making it as a caster despite all your hard work. I mean, nobody is gonna doubt that you put in the work to actually cast the stuff and learn the language and all that.
But here's the thing man, I, and I'm sure many others, don't like you as a caster. You're not likable as a person, you don't have a great personality, and the way you talk/cast is just kinda idk - I can actually feel how whiny you are through your casts. Maybe if you could fix all these things you'd be better?
Also you have a kind of ratty and unwashed look, it's a real turn off knowing who the person behind the casting looks like when you look like that. Don't take this personally, okay maybe DO take it personally because how you look is very important when you want to be in the spotlight. Your haircut from the Artosis video you posted makes you look like a Backstreet Boys wannabe. Why not just dye your hair tips blonde too? Your glasses are so off-putting too. They look unclean and they are SO reflective. Why not get glasses that don't do that or find a camera angle that helps with this issue? Idk bruh your appearance speaks a lot about you as a person, I get physically uncomfortable just looking at you from the camera. Please clean yourself up man idk what's worse is that your haircut seems intentional, idek anymore.
Why's the background of your cam shot so cluttered? You have like empty drink bottles or something there and there's just SO much going on. They way you sit and your posture also makes it seem like you're just uninterested in whatever is going on, or makes it seem like you're ABOVE the conversation with Artosis.
All in all, I'm not trying to be really mean, I'm just laying down the truth (in my opinion) as to why you're never gonna make it if you don't change - you're difficult to listen to and even more difficult to look at.
perhaps the greatest organization that ever existed for SC2 was NASL. Everything they did put a smile on my face and made me feel welcome. They've also been perhaps the most open-minded organization I've worked with on the planet.
Sadly, I have absolutely no idea who you are (which may be taken as an argument supporting your concerns, or a sign of your irrelevance, my worthlessness as an e-sports fan, or a boring random fact, your pick... ) and obviously I have no insight into the inner workings of the "e-sports", so I don't know how much of the specific you said is true.
However, I would like to say that this "old boys' club" mentality or variations thereof is extremely prevalent in the contemporary society and is seen basically everywhere, from a very small tiny scale of getting along in a social group to multi-billion businesses. A lot of things now work almost exclusively on personal connections and mutual favours - it has reached the point when, particularly in America, they completely embraced it and made up this cool newspeak around it (man, I would like to punch everyone who ever says "networking" and doesn't mean TCP/IP). But also on the small scale it's so often so annoying, when you come to some activity that seems open to everyone, but there is this internal structure with unknown rules and workings ...
On March 04 2015 14:49 Parametric wrote: What's your degree in?
Chinese language and literature.
I don't mean to show off by any means now, but someone I would call a "member of the old boys club" in this blog messaged me. We talked a bit, me and him both being fucked - figuratively speaking - and I think now is a good time to request that this thread be locked.
Closing thoughts:
I wish I could have done something right with casting SC2. I always wanted to be an amazing caster, but I never was. I have lost passion.
I'm moving forward with League of Legends and maybe Heroes of The Storm.
This weekend I will be casting World of Tanks APAC Asia Season 3 finals.
On March 04 2015 14:49 Parametric wrote: What's your degree in?
Chinese language and literature.
I don't mean to show off by any means now, but someone I would call a "member of the old boys club" in this blog messaged me. We talked a bit, me and him both being fucked - figuratively speaking - and I think now is a good time to request that this thread be locked.
Closing thoughts:
I wish I could have done something right with casting SC2. I always wanted to be an amazing caster, but I never was. I have lost passion.
I'm moving forward with League of Legends and maybe Heroes of The Storm.
This weekend I will be casting World of Tanks APAC Asia Season 3 finals.
Would you mind to reveal who that person is? Seriously, you just got a lot of criticism. The thing to do now is probably to accept the criticism, go through it and decide what you think is relevant and right and what is irrelevant and wrong. The worst thing to do now is "I don't listen to you, my point still stands, passionlost because noone understands be, I'm off to League of Legends but I'm still relevant and awesome because I cast WoT APAC Asia Season 3 finals and I really don't want to show off in here." Sadly, that's what you're doing.
EPT![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11026054_885927394762468_594513184364117105_n.jpg?oh=d3b5ca48779d45df595dd5ffeb4db0a3&oe=5576AC60&__gda__=1434198011_e66bd139953fe5b420aa116d7945b519)
