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On April 17 2014 16:40 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 16:26 Jaaaaasper wrote:
He's still a disgusting piece of shit
And not guilty is not a innocent verdict. If I'm not mistaken, arent we innocent until proven guilty?
On TL, it's the other way around.
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On April 20 2014 01:38 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 16:40 CaucasianAsian wrote:On April 17 2014 16:26 Jaaaaasper wrote:
He's still a disgusting piece of shit
And not guilty is not a innocent verdict. If I'm not mistaken, arent we innocent until proven guilty? On TL, it's the other way around.
GUILTY until proven innocent!!!!
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On April 20 2014 00:36 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 19:45 Slayer91 wrote:On April 17 2014 19:39 endy wrote:On April 17 2014 19:19 Slayer91 wrote:
All this vitriol and hatred is awful. He's paid for his crimes already, what's the point of holding a grudge? He's not the fucking antichrist he's just some kid who tried to make an extra buck on the side. As a struggling progamer with a family to support and no future career prospects. He's far from the only one to have partaken in organized crime, to him he just sees some gamblers losing money he didn't see the big picture. Even if the "death" of pro bw was caused by this scandal (was probably mostly starcraft 2 splitting what was already a small hardcore fanbase) there's no sense in treating him like shit like all the netizens in korea are also doing.
It's fucking terrible how you're talking about another human being just because his actions got YOUR toys taken away. (seems to be like blaming him for bw's loss of popularity just seems a convenient scapegoat, it's like 0.0001% of games that were ever fixed)
because my post lacks a hitler reference this is exactly like when hitler was blaming the jews for the downfall for the greatness of germany
The % is completely irrelevant. The mere fact that matches were fixed and that it was in the news is more than enough to keep sponsors away. And certainly decent share of the fan base was disgusted and stopped watching BW. I remember Kim Carry literally begging the viewers to keep watching BW after the scandal. At that time starcraft 2 was nearly out, with beta tournaments all over, and blizzard was putting lots of pressure on KeSPA over ownership of bw rights etcetc so sponsors were already more likely to want to go to starcraft 2 as well as most of the viewers since the game was new and popular worldwide im not saying it had no effect but it might be exaggerated. Meh, it wasn't sc2. OGN moved to League because everyone and their mother plays it.
It kinda seemed like it at first I guess. Like I recall when SC2 came out there were news articles about how amazing the SC2 WoL sales were and stuff.. and then the korean community was like... what the fuck is this game...... and they dropped it lol.
There was also a period where korean SC2 was trying to get bigger (GOM pushing it and Blizzard pumping ads like no tomrrow) but continually failing to grasp the Korean audience. I recall during this period LoL was still just a casual game growing EXPLOSIVELY in player base and then when the League progaming scene came into light, korean SC2 reached their all time low.
But in a way SC2 did play a role (besides all the lawsuits and legal matters that were in play). For example, Kwanro was talking on stream about what was going on his mind when he "ran away" from SKT house and later left a note on his fancafe (or cyworld?) about retiring. He said with SC2 forcing itself in, being the sequel of the BW, the obvious conclusion they came to was that this is the game that would be taking over and for Kwanro he didn't have that passion, that fight to learn how to play a brand new game and try to compete again. Having been suspected of matchfixing by his own team/coach and the community constantly shitting on him for all in/cheesing too much (and the 'rivalry' he had with stork creating many many kwanro anti fans since stork's fan base is much much bigger :l) he lost that fighting spirit (huehue).
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On April 19 2014 20:28 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 19:32 Slayer91 wrote:On April 17 2014 19:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I don't think you're getting the point I'm not talking about the match fixing scandal, I'm talking about this lawsuit, even if hes been acquitted I take domestic abuse fucking seriously, I would have felt the same way about anyone not just luxury.
I won't pretend I know the whole truth and that what I know is the truth, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I doubt the ex-wife is a nutjob, she wouldn't have brought up a lawsuit for no reason and even appeal after the fist trial. A disgraced progamer who lost his source of income then gets divorced by his wife who suddenly comes up with a domestic abuse lawsuit on which there was found to be no evidence. How the fuck would his nerdly little arms get the energy to beat his wife after practicing anyway. obviously domestic abuse is shitty but so is ruining someone's life by making a false charge, even if they aren't sent to prison if it shows up on his record judgemental people like you would assume he did it. On April 17 2014 19:32 Monsen wrote:On April 17 2014 19:19 Slayer91 wrote:
All this vitriol and hatred is awful. He's paid for his crimes already, what's the point of holding a grudge? He's not the fucking antichrist he's just some kid who tried to make an extra buck on the side. As a struggling progamer with a family to support and no future career prospects. He's far from the only one to have partaken in organized crime, to him he just sees some gamblers losing money he didn't see the big picture. Even if the "death" of pro bw was caused by this scandal (was probably mostly starcraft 2 splitting what was already a small hardcore fanbase) there's no sense in treating him like shit like all the netizens in korea are also doing.
It's fucking terrible how you're talking about another human being just because his actions got YOUR toys taken away. (seems to be like blaming him for bw's loss of popularity just seems a convenient scapegoat, it's like 0.0001% of games that were ever fixed)
because my post lacks a hitler reference this is exactly like when hitler was blaming the jews for the downfall for the greatness of germany
Yeah, man it's only so few games that were fixed, no idea why that made people so upset! I mean if it had been 80% of all games, then yes, I'm sure you and I could understand the vitriol but only 0.0000000001% that's like NOTHING! Haters gonna hate, they're just mad because they got owned by that cool kid. It's like the fucking jews that are probably still mad at the nazis even though they number ~ 13,854,800 and Hitler didn't even kill 6 millions. That's not even half. Fuck the haters. Also don't forget to bring the milk to the next math morons monthly meet, I paid last time. my claims for low amount of match fixing was related to its effect on the "death of bw" and not "was it wrong for people to fix matches" in the jew metaphor it would be like if hitler killed 10 jews would it be a holocaust not would hitler be a good guy Yeah, I got that. You're not an idiot for getting the percentage wrong, you're a fool for failing to realize that the number of fixed games is pretty much irrelevant *. The fact that matches were fixed is more than enough to discredit the sport for viewers and sponsors. Also, has anyone so far even made the claim that the matchfixing scandal was the sole reason for Bws "death"? I don't think so. Nevertheless it certainly was the event most detrimental to the Bw scene (maybe even esports in general) to date. * That, and poopoo-ing the (hurt) feelings ("kid took your toys away") of Starcraft fans on a Starcraft forum. Smart move buddy.
You're saying that the numbers don't matter? That's ridiculous, there's a huge difference between 5 fixed games and 500, a few doesn't discredit the entire ESPORTS but it isn't good for reputation, with starcraft 2 coming out, ogn switching to league mbc running out of money kespa having legal issues it seems immature to assume that match fixing was the only reason, though it definitely is a good scapegoat.
At the end of the day starcraft 2 and LoL had more money in them, and in business thats what mattered, the slightly tarnished BW rep simply made the decision easy
Like neither of us can prove it either way, and it is completely illogical to think that matchfixing ruining esports is a binary affair, 1 person doing it once would be an incident, 5 people doing it 5 times in a scandal, if it was half the proleague it would definitely shut everything down, but unfortunately things were turbulent already.
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On April 20 2014 18:14 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2014 20:28 Monsen wrote:On April 17 2014 19:32 Slayer91 wrote:On April 17 2014 19:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I don't think you're getting the point I'm not talking about the match fixing scandal, I'm talking about this lawsuit, even if hes been acquitted I take domestic abuse fucking seriously, I would have felt the same way about anyone not just luxury.
I won't pretend I know the whole truth and that what I know is the truth, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I doubt the ex-wife is a nutjob, she wouldn't have brought up a lawsuit for no reason and even appeal after the fist trial. A disgraced progamer who lost his source of income then gets divorced by his wife who suddenly comes up with a domestic abuse lawsuit on which there was found to be no evidence. How the fuck would his nerdly little arms get the energy to beat his wife after practicing anyway. obviously domestic abuse is shitty but so is ruining someone's life by making a false charge, even if they aren't sent to prison if it shows up on his record judgemental people like you would assume he did it. On April 17 2014 19:32 Monsen wrote:On April 17 2014 19:19 Slayer91 wrote:
All this vitriol and hatred is awful. He's paid for his crimes already, what's the point of holding a grudge? He's not the fucking antichrist he's just some kid who tried to make an extra buck on the side. As a struggling progamer with a family to support and no future career prospects. He's far from the only one to have partaken in organized crime, to him he just sees some gamblers losing money he didn't see the big picture. Even if the "death" of pro bw was caused by this scandal (was probably mostly starcraft 2 splitting what was already a small hardcore fanbase) there's no sense in treating him like shit like all the netizens in korea are also doing.
It's fucking terrible how you're talking about another human being just because his actions got YOUR toys taken away. (seems to be like blaming him for bw's loss of popularity just seems a convenient scapegoat, it's like 0.0001% of games that were ever fixed)
because my post lacks a hitler reference this is exactly like when hitler was blaming the jews for the downfall for the greatness of germany
Yeah, man it's only so few games that were fixed, no idea why that made people so upset! I mean if it had been 80% of all games, then yes, I'm sure you and I could understand the vitriol but only 0.0000000001% that's like NOTHING! Haters gonna hate, they're just mad because they got owned by that cool kid. It's like the fucking jews that are probably still mad at the nazis even though they number ~ 13,854,800 and Hitler didn't even kill 6 millions. That's not even half. Fuck the haters. Also don't forget to bring the milk to the next math morons monthly meet, I paid last time. my claims for low amount of match fixing was related to its effect on the "death of bw" and not "was it wrong for people to fix matches" in the jew metaphor it would be like if hitler killed 10 jews would it be a holocaust not would hitler be a good guy Yeah, I got that. You're not an idiot for getting the percentage wrong, you're a fool for failing to realize that the number of fixed games is pretty much irrelevant *. The fact that matches were fixed is more than enough to discredit the sport for viewers and sponsors. Also, has anyone so far even made the claim that the matchfixing scandal was the sole reason for Bws "death"? I don't think so. Nevertheless it certainly was the event most detrimental to the Bw scene (maybe even esports in general) to date. * That, and poopoo-ing the (hurt) feelings ("kid took your toys away") of Starcraft fans on a Starcraft forum. Smart move buddy. You're saying that the numbers don't matter? That's ridiculous, there's a huge difference between 5 fixed games and 500, a few doesn't discredit the entire ESPORTS but it isn't good for reputation, with starcraft 2 coming out, ogn switching to league mbc running out of money kespa having legal issues it seems immature to assume that match fixing was the only reason, though it definitely is a good scapegoat. At the end of the day starcraft 2 and LoL had more money in them, and in business thats what mattered, the slightly tarnished BW rep simply made the decision easy Like neither of us can prove it either way, and it is completely illogical to think that matchfixing ruining esports is a binary affair, 1 person doing it once would be an incident, 5 people doing it 5 times in a scandal, if it was half the proleague it would definitely shut everything down, but unfortunately things were turbulent already.
This is exactly the poblem I have with grasping the magnitude of match fixing's dmg to Korean eSports. If an industry would fall apart entirely due to one scandal that involved 11 players (I'm counting those tried and banned, compare to the entire pro-player base, it's a drop in a pond). there was something seriously wrong with the industry itself before. Now I know phys-sports analogies are not perfect, or even good sometimes, but soccer has had so many, COUNTLESS, cases of matchfixing everywhere, can you imagine even for a second the football industy like folding or something based on one tried case?
I wasn't around when MFS happened nor when Luxury was first accused so that's case closed for me, if the judge says so then he didn't do it, and a former progamer has no influence on the court whatsoever for me to doubt that verdict (compared to some celebrity, unlikely but then you can at least speculate).
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Looking forward to hear some more on this but one thing seems certain not everything is as black and white as we'd like to imagine.
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On April 20 2014 18:35 McRatyn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2014 18:14 Slayer91 wrote:On April 19 2014 20:28 Monsen wrote:On April 17 2014 19:32 Slayer91 wrote:On April 17 2014 19:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I don't think you're getting the point I'm not talking about the match fixing scandal, I'm talking about this lawsuit, even if hes been acquitted I take domestic abuse fucking seriously, I would have felt the same way about anyone not just luxury.
I won't pretend I know the whole truth and that what I know is the truth, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I doubt the ex-wife is a nutjob, she wouldn't have brought up a lawsuit for no reason and even appeal after the fist trial. A disgraced progamer who lost his source of income then gets divorced by his wife who suddenly comes up with a domestic abuse lawsuit on which there was found to be no evidence. How the fuck would his nerdly little arms get the energy to beat his wife after practicing anyway. obviously domestic abuse is shitty but so is ruining someone's life by making a false charge, even if they aren't sent to prison if it shows up on his record judgemental people like you would assume he did it. On April 17 2014 19:32 Monsen wrote:On April 17 2014 19:19 Slayer91 wrote:
All this vitriol and hatred is awful. He's paid for his crimes already, what's the point of holding a grudge? He's not the fucking antichrist he's just some kid who tried to make an extra buck on the side. As a struggling progamer with a family to support and no future career prospects. He's far from the only one to have partaken in organized crime, to him he just sees some gamblers losing money he didn't see the big picture. Even if the "death" of pro bw was caused by this scandal (was probably mostly starcraft 2 splitting what was already a small hardcore fanbase) there's no sense in treating him like shit like all the netizens in korea are also doing.
It's fucking terrible how you're talking about another human being just because his actions got YOUR toys taken away. (seems to be like blaming him for bw's loss of popularity just seems a convenient scapegoat, it's like 0.0001% of games that were ever fixed)
because my post lacks a hitler reference this is exactly like when hitler was blaming the jews for the downfall for the greatness of germany
Yeah, man it's only so few games that were fixed, no idea why that made people so upset! I mean if it had been 80% of all games, then yes, I'm sure you and I could understand the vitriol but only 0.0000000001% that's like NOTHING! Haters gonna hate, they're just mad because they got owned by that cool kid. It's like the fucking jews that are probably still mad at the nazis even though they number ~ 13,854,800 and Hitler didn't even kill 6 millions. That's not even half. Fuck the haters. Also don't forget to bring the milk to the next math morons monthly meet, I paid last time. my claims for low amount of match fixing was related to its effect on the "death of bw" and not "was it wrong for people to fix matches" in the jew metaphor it would be like if hitler killed 10 jews would it be a holocaust not would hitler be a good guy Yeah, I got that. You're not an idiot for getting the percentage wrong, you're a fool for failing to realize that the number of fixed games is pretty much irrelevant *. The fact that matches were fixed is more than enough to discredit the sport for viewers and sponsors. Also, has anyone so far even made the claim that the matchfixing scandal was the sole reason for Bws "death"? I don't think so. Nevertheless it certainly was the event most detrimental to the Bw scene (maybe even esports in general) to date. * That, and poopoo-ing the (hurt) feelings ("kid took your toys away") of Starcraft fans on a Starcraft forum. Smart move buddy. You're saying that the numbers don't matter? That's ridiculous, there's a huge difference between 5 fixed games and 500, a few doesn't discredit the entire ESPORTS but it isn't good for reputation, with starcraft 2 coming out, ogn switching to league mbc running out of money kespa having legal issues it seems immature to assume that match fixing was the only reason, though it definitely is a good scapegoat. At the end of the day starcraft 2 and LoL had more money in them, and in business thats what mattered, the slightly tarnished BW rep simply made the decision easy Like neither of us can prove it either way, and it is completely illogical to think that matchfixing ruining esports is a binary affair, 1 person doing it once would be an incident, 5 people doing it 5 times in a scandal, if it was half the proleague it would definitely shut everything down, but unfortunately things were turbulent already. This is exactly the poblem I have with grasping the magnitude of match fixing's dmg to Korean eSports. If an industry would fall apart entirely due to one scandal that involved 11 players (I'm counting those tried and banned, compare to the entire pro-player base, it's a drop in a pond). there was something seriously wrong with the industry itself before. Now I know phys-sports analogies are not perfect, or even good sometimes, but soccer has had so many, COUNTLESS, cases of matchfixing everywhere, can you imagine even for a second the football industy like folding or something based on one tried case? I wasn't around when MFS happened nor when Luxury was first accused so that's case closed for me, if the judge says so then he didn't do it, and a former progamer has no influence on the court whatsoever for me to doubt that verdict (compared to some celebrity, unlikely but then you can at least speculate).
I agree... blaming Luxury for the fall of BW seems pretty over the top to me. Personally I was more peeved at the people who supposedly loved BW yet threw it under the bus to hype SC2 to death before it was even released. I understand there was money to be made, but it makes their "passion" for SC2 look false. I think Idra felt disgusted with himself for this reason.
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What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it?
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On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it?
No where near as many as Internet mra's like to think there is.
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On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it?
Exactly, there are plenty of lying women around that want to ruin their husband's/boyfriend's life when shit gets sour.
Then again, someone people would agree that Matchfixing was detrimental to BW's scene. I mean perhaps that if matchfixing didn't happen, BW could have maintain enough of a positive PR in order for the scene to weather Blizzard's BW purge w/ enough interested companies.
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On April 21 2014 07:22 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it? Exactly, there are plenty of lying women around that want to ruin their husband's/boyfriend's life when shit gets sour. Then again, someone people would agree that Matchfixing was detrimental to BW's scene. I mean perhaps that if matchfixing didn't happen, BW could have maintain enough of a positive PR in order for the scene to weather Blizzard's BW purge w/ enough interested companies.
Luxury was punished for his crimes and I don't want to see him near professional gaming ever again. That said, the moment these domestic violence allegations came up the sad thing is we were all quick to say 'he is scum, of course he did it'. I myself thought that it fit his profile and he just went crazy after the scandal.
I made a mistake, I don't really feel bad about not believing the guy. But thinking that he deserved to get falsely accused of threatening his wife with acid? idk, nobody deserves that
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On April 21 2014 06:43 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it? No where near as many as Internet mra's like to think there is.
But you know enough from internet sources to know what Luxury did?
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raise your pitchforks boys
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Found innocent but everyone will still hate him as if he is guilty. Yep, all it takes is to accuse someone and bring media attention to it to destroy their character.
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On April 21 2014 07:49 GeckoXp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 06:43 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it? No where near as many as Internet mra's like to think there is. But you know enough from internet sources to know what Luxury did?
Pretty sure I disliked him before this.
On April 21 2014 08:27 shizaep wrote:
Found innocent but everyone will still hate him as if he is guilty. Yep, all it takes is to accuse someone and bring media attention to it to destroy their character.
I don't know if he was innocent or not, but not guilty is not the same thing as innocent.
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On April 21 2014 09:04 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 07:49 GeckoXp wrote:On April 21 2014 06:43 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it? No where near as many as Internet mra's like to think there is. But you know enough from internet sources to know what Luxury did? Pretty sure I disliked him before this. Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 08:27 shizaep wrote:
Found innocent but everyone will still hate him as if he is guilty. Yep, all it takes is to accuse someone and bring media attention to it to destroy their character. I don't know if he was innocent or not, but not guilty is not the same thing as innocent.
That's the problem.
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On April 21 2014 09:43 shizaep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 09:04 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 21 2014 07:49 GeckoXp wrote:On April 21 2014 06:43 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it? No where near as many as Internet mra's like to think there is. But you know enough from internet sources to know what Luxury did? Pretty sure I disliked him before this. On April 21 2014 08:27 shizaep wrote:
Found innocent but everyone will still hate him as if he is guilty. Yep, all it takes is to accuse someone and bring media attention to it to destroy their character. I don't know if he was innocent or not, but not guilty is not the same thing as innocent. That's the problem.
lunged those pitchforks guys... we will have a luxury of eating something good today
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Korea (South)11601 Posts
On April 21 2014 09:04 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 07:49 GeckoXp wrote:On April 21 2014 06:43 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it? No where near as many as Internet mra's like to think there is. But you know enough from internet sources to know what Luxury did? Pretty sure I disliked him before this. Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 08:27 shizaep wrote:
Found innocent but everyone will still hate him as if he is guilty. Yep, all it takes is to accuse someone and bring media attention to it to destroy their character. I don't know if he was innocent or not, but not guilty is not the same thing as innocent.
Then please give some insight as to what you think he is? He has been found not guilty by 2 different trials.
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On April 21 2014 11:47 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2014 09:04 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 21 2014 07:49 GeckoXp wrote:On April 21 2014 06:43 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 21 2014 06:25 zeo wrote:
What the hell has match-fixing got to do with him being married to a horrible woman? Who knows how many men's lives are ruined because of false accusations and people can say someone deserves it? No where near as many as Internet mra's like to think there is. But you know enough from internet sources to know what Luxury did? Pretty sure I disliked him before this. On April 21 2014 08:27 shizaep wrote:
Found innocent but everyone will still hate him as if he is guilty. Yep, all it takes is to accuse someone and bring media attention to it to destroy their character. I don't know if he was innocent or not, but not guilty is not the same thing as innocent. Then please give some insight as to what you think he is? He has been found not guilty by 2 different trials.
I think I'm biased to the point that I can't judge him on this issue. Hes still a disgusting pile of shit.
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EPT
