Video of thugs cutting a leg off of a captured anti-maidan supporter. Police just standing by.
video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
And I've got a question for you too. Why doesn't Kiev negotiate with the protesters in the east, do constitutional reform on decentralization, give them amnesty and include their representatives in government, make Russian a second official language and solve the problem?
Instead of arming right-sector.
Tomorrow these thugs will be in Kharkiv setting fire to your neighbors, your friends, people who have nothing to do with anything. What then? The only crime these people committed was collecting signatures for a referendum.
guy sitting in Serbia telling Russian speaking Ukrainian guy in Eastern Ukraine how to live. I cant decide if this is more brazen than the Hitler onto Maidan fiasco or less.
I'm sure an American telling him how to live is much better.
@Greem
When maidan took over the news networks in the country they started propagandering hard, its normal for people to fall into disinformation when they have no other source. I mean, look at Ukrainian media today television channels ect. and see how the reacted to the now 43 people dieing
You aren't helping as you are constantly fear-mongering and taking events out of their context. If we were to look at your posts only, the evil would solely be lying in Kiev, and private sector would be everywhere attacking Russian speakers (sorry I'm not doing the same with everything related to the word "West). Also that's presumptuous of you to say that he changed his views because of the media propaganda, it's like you are saying he's retarded. He's on the net and he frequents TL so he's most likely exposed to all kind of points of view be it pro-Russia or not so he can make his own conclusions.
What you say might be true for the older generations tough, which don't really use the internet and can't compare or verify what is said.
Today in Odessa as a result of riots killed 43 people. In hospitals, many victims in serious condition, the Department of Information and Public Relations of the Odessa City Council.
Number of injured in the riots in Odessa has increased to 174. Of these, 25 of them in serious condition. Also in the City Council confirmed that the two victims died in hospital from his injuries. Thus, the number of deaths rose to 43.
Physicians have turned to Odessa with a call to come to the station to donate blood transfusion and for the victims - Regional Blood Transfusion Station will work with 9.00 on Saturday, May 3.
Recall, according to the latest data in a fire in the House of Trade Unions in Odessa 31 people died.
Video of thugs cutting a leg off of a captured anti-maidan supporter. Police just standing by.
video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
And I've got a question for you too. Why doesn't Kiev negotiate with the protesters in the east, do constitutional reform on decentralization, give them amnesty and include their representatives in government, make Russian a second official language and solve the problem?
Instead of arming right-sector.
Tomorrow these thugs will be in Kharkiv setting fire to your neighbors, your friends, people who have nothing to do with anything. What then? The only crime these people committed was collecting signatures for a referendum.
Gimme few minutes, I'll call Turchinov and ask him the exact question. Negotiate with protesters in Sloviansk? :D Negotiations with terrorist in this case is something weird. 3 weeks until ukrainian elections and referendum, every single person who is a citizen of this country can decide, not by acting like terrorists, in a peaceful way, but ofc it's better to destabilize even further, right? And ofc it's not in what Putin interested in, right? About language, stop even mention this, both languages wide spreading all over the country, and it nobody the fuck cares what language u're going to speak, russian or ukrainian.
Well I'm sure that the people running your country who came to power in a coup, are doing a smashing job of stabilizing the country they destabilized by coming to power in a violent fashion.
Violence is bad, always! Answering violently for violence is even worse. I was always against violence, ever since the beggining of maidan (which why I used to be against maidan, the main reason - I never want people to die from both sides), but when it gets too far like now, u should never answer violently.
Simply, just drop the fucking weapon. Wait till elections and referendum, catch every single russian agent, put in prison every single person that made a crime during this crisis, every single from both sides, and let people to build their country, stop robbing, help people, guide people to a modern society, to a western society, not to a imperialistic one.
So from what I've understood in your post you are against protesting in general?
At the end of the day the cold fact remains that the sole instigater of all the problems in Ukraine today is euromaidan and the lunacy and complete lack of reason from their leaders before, during and after. Maidan abused the poor situation Ukraine was in to plunge the country into chaos, lying to the people that they would overnight become Switzerland and that 1/3rd of your countries population was the devil among other horrible things is what in the end caused the great divide in Ukraine.
One third of your country deserves the right to have representative in government, not to be set on fire alive.
Either way russia keep inciting civil war by basically being complicent and even openly in favor in people using in the name of russia for insurrection.
On May 03 2014 07:33 semantics wrote: Either way russia keep inciting civil war by basically being complicent and even openly in favor in people using in the name of russia for insurrection.
They are not using Russia as a country, but Russia in the ideological-block sense. Waving the Russian flag at anti-maidan would be the same as waving an EU flag at maidan. Its an idea
Video of thugs cutting a leg off of a captured anti-maidan supporter. Police just standing by.
video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
No one will help you, this is politics no white or black, you may hate russian president and politics all you want, that also wont change a thing, hes not evil, neither is he good, as the rest of politicians from any given country, despite the appereances. And dont do a typical mistakes and use word "Flag" "color" "country" it makes people from other country react to this , this globalized words refer to all the citizens and culture to that flag you mention. This is how we got to this point, and this is why the country is so divided and polarized. If i remember correctly , at the begining of this thread you were anti-maidan , so to speak, and your father lost his job, or something similar, now you took another side, tell me, is something different for you ? I bet its not.
Yes, I was anti-maidan at the very beggining, than things started to change rapidly, my dad didn't lost his job, i realised he was over-polarized, he had "a bad feeling", he's still bashing things sometimes. Few friends of mine took the red corner of this battle, u was shocked how cruel people might be. Some of my friends were dreaming about russian tanks in our streets, they clearly belived in a bright future with Russia by this way. Seriously? Tanks in a ciy streets is a good sign? Slavic union? USSR? The next thing, wearing ukrainian colors in ukraine is normal i think, right? But some elder generations, basicly those who was born in USSR might call u a brainless banderovets, simple cause u're in national colors of your country, u are becoming a personal enemy of them, is it okay? And at the same time they thinks it's fine to wave russian flag with red comminist flag aswell, and shouting "Ros-si-ya".
And the very last thing, Czech republic used to be a part of communis block after WW2, they're also slavic, right? Look at them now, look at their country, u won't find that big difference between people in finansional terms, when at the same time, here, in ukraine and russia, we have a huge difference, we got many oligarchs aswell as many poor people, It should not be that way, look at average life level in Ukraine/Russian and Czech Republic, and make a comparison.
It's not a mistake to tell about "flag", "color" and so on, it's one of the biggest purposes atm. U can simply ingore it now.
See, I've got a plenty of reasons to change my point of view dramatically during last few months. It won't be a short-list.
I feel for you, honestly do. No one should have to go through what the people of Ukraine are going through now. There is nothing I can do but hope that it will work out in the end.
On May 03 2014 06:21 Sub40APM wrote: [quote] video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
And I've got a question for you too. Why doesn't Kiev negotiate with the protesters in the east, do constitutional reform on decentralization, give them amnesty and include their representatives in government, make Russian a second official language and solve the problem?
Instead of arming right-sector.
Tomorrow these thugs will be in Kharkiv setting fire to your neighbors, your friends, people who have nothing to do with anything. What then? The only crime these people committed was collecting signatures for a referendum.
Gimme few minutes, I'll call Turchinov and ask him the exact question. Negotiate with protesters in Sloviansk? :D Negotiations with terrorist in this case is something weird. 3 weeks until ukrainian elections and referendum, every single person who is a citizen of this country can decide, not by acting like terrorists, in a peaceful way, but ofc it's better to destabilize even further, right? And ofc it's not in what Putin interested in, right? About language, stop even mention this, both languages wide spreading all over the country, and it nobody the fuck cares what language u're going to speak, russian or ukrainian.
Well I'm sure that the people running your country who came to power in a coup, are doing a smashing job of stabilizing the country they destabilized by coming to power in a violent fashion.
Violence is bad, always! Answering violently for violence is even worse. I was always against violence, ever since the beggining of maidan (which why I used to be against maidan, the main reason - I never want people to die from both sides), but when it gets too far like now, u should never answer violently.
Simply, just drop the fucking weapon. Wait till elections and referendum, catch every single russian agent, put in prison every single person that made a crime during this crisis, every single from both sides, and let people to build their country, stop robbing, help people, guide people to a modern society, to a western society, not to a imperialistic one.
So from what I've understood in your post you are against protesting in general?
At the end of the day the cold fact remains that the sole instigater of all the problems in Ukraine today is euromaidan and the lunacy and complete lack of reason from their leaders before, during and after. Maidan abused the poor situation Ukraine was in to plunge the country into chaos, lying to people that they would overnight become Switzerland and that 1/3rd of your countries population was the devil is what caused the great divide in Ukraine.
One third of your country deserves the right to have representative in government, not to be set on fire alive.
I am against violent protests. Yanukovich was a bad leader, was a weak leader, he flew away, why the hell we need a weak leader, who thinks only about his "family"? He did escaped, and it's fine, at least we could saw how much did he was able to steal from people. Everybody from east to west in our country was represented and everybody WILL be represented in parliament, just wait referendum and elections, shaking everything never gonna help.
There still were a lot of people striking at maidan for a reasons, some of them were paid, but not all. The same with pro-russian protestors, some of them paid but some not, overall doesn't matter, everybody should recognize that they must not try to play with fire.
Video of thugs cutting a leg off of a captured anti-maidan supporter. Police just standing by.
video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
No one will help you, this is politics no white or black, you may hate russian president and politics all you want, that also wont change a thing, hes not evil, neither is he good, as the rest of politicians from any given country, despite the appereances. And dont do a typical mistakes and use word "Flag" "color" "country" it makes people from other country react to this , this globalized words refer to all the citizens and culture to that flag you mention. This is how we got to this point, and this is why the country is so divided and polarized. If i remember correctly , at the begining of this thread you were anti-maidan , so to speak, and your father lost his job, or something similar, now you took another side, tell me, is something different for you ? I bet its not.
Yes, I was anti-maidan at the very beggining, than things started to change rapidly, my dad didn't lost his job, i realised he was over-polarized, he had "a bad feeling", he's still bashing things sometimes. Few friends of mine took the red corner of this battle, u was shocked how cruel people might be. Some of my friends were dreaming about russian tanks in our streets, they clearly belived in a bright future with Russia by this way. Seriously? Tanks in a ciy streets is a good sign? Slavic union? USSR? The next thing, wearing ukrainian colors in ukraine is normal i think, right? But some elder generations, basicly those who was born in USSR might call u a brainless banderovets, simple cause u're in national colors of your country, u are becoming a personal enemy of them, is it okay? And at the same time they thinks it's fine to wave russian flag with red comminist flag aswell, and shouting "Ros-si-ya".
And the very last thing, Czech republic used to be a part of communis block after WW2, they're also slavic, right? Look at them now, look at their country, u won't find that big difference between people in finansional terms, when at the same time, here, in ukraine and russia, we have a huge difference, we got many oligarchs aswell as many poor people, It should not be that way, look at average life level in Ukraine/Russian and Czech Republic, and make a comparison.
It's not a mistake to tell about "flag", "color" and so on, it's one of the biggest purposes atm. U can simply ingore it now.
See, I've got a plenty of reasons to change my point of view dramatically during last few months. It won't be a short-list.
So what are you saying exactly i didn't understand. You can freely wave the Ukrainian Flag, you always could, it was never a problem, in fact during sports events every single citizen was behind that flag, or events that requiered it. But the difference now is that the majority of pro-maidan movement wave it with many other symbolics, spits on Russian flag , for example, raising the hate in cultural level, because when for example in VK some random idiot put russian flag with nazi symbol on it and puts "Slava Ukraini" in his status, that makes angry all the civil people in other country for no reason, thats why i said to not use words "Flag","Country X", etc. It's wrong and it won't help to live better, and improve anything. The Polarization tends to do one thing and one thing only, divide in 2, not 3 or 4 but only 2. So if before you could be neutral Ukrainian and wave your flag with good reasons to be supportive, or whatever reason that is of waving flag. Now it always come with Black and Red, Right Sector flag, always together, like there is no other version of thos situation, i mean you must undestand this dont you ? So what other people think who speak Russian and watch russian movies, listen to russian songs, of course they will be scared. And guess what, they will choose a different flag to wave. A Russian one. At least thats my undestanding of the current situation and why it came to this point, where civilians kill civilians. And Economy is even worse. Also i don't know about comprasion with Czech Republic, i believe neither me or you can predict or rewrite history, right now we got what we got, also is a much smaller country and i think much more united one i believe, much more uni-cultural if this word exist .
On May 03 2014 06:21 Sub40APM wrote: [quote] video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
And I've got a question for you too. Why doesn't Kiev negotiate with the protesters in the east, do constitutional reform on decentralization, give them amnesty and include their representatives in government, make Russian a second official language and solve the problem?
Instead of arming right-sector.
Tomorrow these thugs will be in Kharkiv setting fire to your neighbors, your friends, people who have nothing to do with anything. What then? The only crime these people committed was collecting signatures for a referendum.
Gimme few minutes, I'll call Turchinov and ask him the exact question. Negotiate with protesters in Sloviansk? :D Negotiations with terrorist in this case is something weird. 3 weeks until ukrainian elections and referendum, every single person who is a citizen of this country can decide, not by acting like terrorists, in a peaceful way, but ofc it's better to destabilize even further, right? And ofc it's not in what Putin interested in, right? About language, stop even mention this, both languages wide spreading all over the country, and it nobody the fuck cares what language u're going to speak, russian or ukrainian.
Well I'm sure that the people running your country who came to power in a coup, are doing a smashing job of stabilizing the country they destabilized by coming to power in a violent fashion.
Violence is bad, always! Answering violently for violence is even worse. I was always against violence, ever since the beggining of maidan (which why I used to be against maidan, the main reason - I never want people to die from both sides), but when it gets too far like now, u should never answer violently.
Simply, just drop the fucking weapon. Wait till elections and referendum, catch every single russian agent, put in prison every single person that made a crime during this crisis, every single from both sides, and let people to build their country, stop robbing, help people, guide people to a modern society, to a western society, not to a imperialistic one.
So from what I've understood in your post you are against protesting in general?
At the end of the day the cold fact remains that the sole instigater of all the problems in Ukraine today is euromaidan and the lunacy and complete lack of reason from their leaders before, during and after. Maidan abused the poor situation Ukraine was in to plunge the country into chaos, lying to the people that they would overnight become Switzerland and that 1/3rd of your countries population was the devil among other horrible things is what in the end caused the great divide in Ukraine.
One third of your country deserves the right to have representative in government, not to be set on fire alive.
I wonder what caused the Ukraine to be in the poor situation in the first place. Fucking corrupt pigs backed by Kremlin which wanted Ukraine to be weak and dependent on them. I could even go as far as to say that even Timoshenko was a god damn Russian agent to prove my point, not to mention Yanukovych who high tailed it out to papa Vlad when things got hot.
Why do you want people to live miserably in a miserable country is beyond thought. If anyone tried to turn Ukraine into the Switzerland for a short term, was puppet Yanukovych and his $15 bln bond deal with Moscow.
Video of thugs cutting a leg off of a captured anti-maidan supporter. Police just standing by.
video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
No one will help you, this is politics no white or black, you may hate russian president and politics all you want, that also wont change a thing, hes not evil, neither is he good, as the rest of politicians from any given country, despite the appereances.
What a strange attitude to take. He is obviously worse than politicians in democratic countries that when their terms of office comes choose to retire from politics instead of maintain their power. And he is better than someone like Zyganov. Contrary to your cynicism, reforms are possible. Many Eastern European countries were in the same position as Ukraine was in 89 or 91 and they've improved significantly -- and things in them have improved for everyone. And many countries were worse of than Ukraine in 91 and gotten worse too, like all the Stans except Kazakhstan.
Despite all the things he is or he's not, there is no better president for Russia then Putin today, and thats the fact.
And its a staggeringly meaningless fact since there have been only two, Yeltsin and Putin and neither would allow (a) decrease in power of presidency (b) competitive elections
You can't compare Russia to any small european country, i guess the comparison with United States wont be that accurate either, or China in that regard, you cannot judge everyone by the same manner, we speaking about different enviroments, cultures, historys, so calling Putin in any of possible or impossible situation good or evil, is wrong, that all i say.
Yes, Russia is a magical and unique country that cant be judged by any other standards standards. Thats exactly the kind of attitude that is the problem and that lets Putin off the hook
We don't know what woud happened to Ukraine IF this or IF that. I tried to search for economic comparisons between the Soviet Ukraine and Ukraine after 1991 untill today, i kinda didn't find anything usefull , so its hard to predict anything and what would be best, culturally Ukraine was never far from Russia, so its hard to imagine what would happened if Ukraine was a part of EU for example because of that.
Huh? Ukraine was also not that different from Poland in 1989 and only slightly poorer than Czechoslovakia, today Poland is more than 3x as rich. The idea of EU isnt some kind of cultural or racial idea about unique civilization (that is actually silly, Germans are very different from the English and Swedes are different from Spaniards), its the idea that rule of law, free press, regular elections in general will lead to decrease in corruption and increase in achievements of citizens.
On May 03 2014 07:33 semantics wrote: Either way russia keep inciting civil war by basically being complicent and even openly in favor in people using in the name of russia for insurrection.
They are not using Russia as a country, but Russia in the ideological-block sense. Waving the Russian flag at anti-maidan would be the same as waving an EU flag at maidan. Its an idea
Except the EU didn't annex a part of the ukraine with the help of soldiers pretending not to from EU. Then openly suggest that they would be willing to support further insurrection to secure their borders. Btw all annexations post WWII have been done through military action of one country taking over another/parts of another. It's never been a mutually agreed upon action.
On May 03 2014 06:26 zeo wrote: [quote] Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
And I've got a question for you too. Why doesn't Kiev negotiate with the protesters in the east, do constitutional reform on decentralization, give them amnesty and include their representatives in government, make Russian a second official language and solve the problem?
Instead of arming right-sector.
Tomorrow these thugs will be in Kharkiv setting fire to your neighbors, your friends, people who have nothing to do with anything. What then? The only crime these people committed was collecting signatures for a referendum.
Gimme few minutes, I'll call Turchinov and ask him the exact question. Negotiate with protesters in Sloviansk? :D Negotiations with terrorist in this case is something weird. 3 weeks until ukrainian elections and referendum, every single person who is a citizen of this country can decide, not by acting like terrorists, in a peaceful way, but ofc it's better to destabilize even further, right? And ofc it's not in what Putin interested in, right? About language, stop even mention this, both languages wide spreading all over the country, and it nobody the fuck cares what language u're going to speak, russian or ukrainian.
Well I'm sure that the people running your country who came to power in a coup, are doing a smashing job of stabilizing the country they destabilized by coming to power in a violent fashion.
Violence is bad, always! Answering violently for violence is even worse. I was always against violence, ever since the beggining of maidan (which why I used to be against maidan, the main reason - I never want people to die from both sides), but when it gets too far like now, u should never answer violently.
Simply, just drop the fucking weapon. Wait till elections and referendum, catch every single russian agent, put in prison every single person that made a crime during this crisis, every single from both sides, and let people to build their country, stop robbing, help people, guide people to a modern society, to a western society, not to a imperialistic one.
So from what I've understood in your post you are against protesting in general?
At the end of the day the cold fact remains that the sole instigater of all the problems in Ukraine today is euromaidan and the lunacy and complete lack of reason from their leaders before, during and after. Maidan abused the poor situation Ukraine was in to plunge the country into chaos, lying to people that they would overnight become Switzerland and that 1/3rd of your countries population was the devil is what caused the great divide in Ukraine.
One third of your country deserves the right to have representative in government, not to be set on fire alive.
I am against violent protests. Yanukovich was a bad leader, was a weak leader, he flew away, why the hell we need a weak leader, who thinks only about his "family"? He did escaped, and it's fine, at least we could saw how much did he was able to steal from people. Everybody from east to west in our country was represented and everybody WILL be represented in parliament, just wait referendum and elections, shaking everything never gonna help.
There still were a lot of people striking at maidan for a reasons, some of them were paid, but not all. The same with pro-russian protestors, some of them paid but some not, overall doesn't matter, everybody should recognize that they must not try to play with fire.
Setting fire to people alive, cutting off their limbs, using heavy artillery against their own civilian areas, I'm not sure you realize which side is the violent one in all of this.
38 in the Odessa fire. 7 more in the streets. 2 more have been confirmed dead on the operating table. 77 are injured with 25 in critical condition. In Slavyansk they are saying 20 or more have been killed, with 20 more wounded. In Kramatorsk they are reports of a massacre, maybe up to 80 killed, talks of people being rounded up and executed. More conservative reports suggest it was only 10 killed so far, with many dozens wounded.
On May 03 2014 06:26 zeo wrote: [quote] Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
And I've got a question for you too. Why doesn't Kiev negotiate with the protesters in the east, do constitutional reform on decentralization, give them amnesty and include their representatives in government, make Russian a second official language and solve the problem?
Instead of arming right-sector.
Tomorrow these thugs will be in Kharkiv setting fire to your neighbors, your friends, people who have nothing to do with anything. What then? The only crime these people committed was collecting signatures for a referendum.
Gimme few minutes, I'll call Turchinov and ask him the exact question. Negotiate with protesters in Sloviansk? :D Negotiations with terrorist in this case is something weird. 3 weeks until ukrainian elections and referendum, every single person who is a citizen of this country can decide, not by acting like terrorists, in a peaceful way, but ofc it's better to destabilize even further, right? And ofc it's not in what Putin interested in, right? About language, stop even mention this, both languages wide spreading all over the country, and it nobody the fuck cares what language u're going to speak, russian or ukrainian.
Well I'm sure that the people running your country who came to power in a coup, are doing a smashing job of stabilizing the country they destabilized by coming to power in a violent fashion.
Violence is bad, always! Answering violently for violence is even worse. I was always against violence, ever since the beggining of maidan (which why I used to be against maidan, the main reason - I never want people to die from both sides), but when it gets too far like now, u should never answer violently.
Simply, just drop the fucking weapon. Wait till elections and referendum, catch every single russian agent, put in prison every single person that made a crime during this crisis, every single from both sides, and let people to build their country, stop robbing, help people, guide people to a modern society, to a western society, not to a imperialistic one.
So from what I've understood in your post you are against protesting in general?
At the end of the day the cold fact remains that the sole instigater of all the problems in Ukraine today is euromaidan and the lunacy and complete lack of reason from their leaders before, during and after. Maidan abused the poor situation Ukraine was in to plunge the country into chaos, lying to the people that they would overnight become Switzerland and that 1/3rd of your countries population was the devil among other horrible things is what in the end caused the great divide in Ukraine.
One third of your country deserves the right to have representative in government, not to be set on fire alive.
I wonder what caused the Ukraine to be in the poor situation in the first place. Fucking corrupt pigs backed by Kremlin which wanted Ukraine to be weak and dependent on them. I could even go as far as to say that even Timoshenko was a god damn Russian agent to prove my point, not to mention Yanukovych who high tailed it out to papa Vlad when things got hot.
Why do you want people to live miserably in a miserable country is beyond thought. If anyone tried to turn Ukraine into the Switzerland for a short term, was puppet Yanukovych and his $15 bln bond deal with Moscow.
On May 03 2014 07:33 semantics wrote: Either way russia keep inciting civil war by basically being complicent and even openly in favor in people using in the name of russia for insurrection.
They are not using Russia as a country, but Russia in the ideological-block sense. Waving the Russian flag at anti-maidan would be the same as waving an EU flag at maidan. Its an idea
Except the EU didn't annex a part of the ukraine with the help of soldiers pretending not to from EU. Then openly suggest that they would be willing to support further insurrection to secure their borders. Btw all annexations post WWII have been done through military action of one country taking over another/parts of another. It's never been a mutually agreed upon action.
We had this conversation with Zeo a dozen times this thread already. Indoctrination has gotten sofar into his head he cannot see anything else anymore.
On May 03 2014 07:33 semantics wrote: Either way russia keep inciting civil war by basically being complicent and even openly in favor in people using in the name of russia for insurrection.
They are not using Russia as a country, but Russia in the ideological-block sense. Waving the Russian flag at anti-maidan would be the same as waving an EU flag at maidan. Its an idea
Except the EU didn't annex a part of the ukraine with the help of soldiers pretending not to from EU. Then openly suggest that they would be willing to support further insurrection to secure their borders. Btw all annexations post WWII have been done through military action of one country taking over another/parts of another. It's never been a mutually agreed upon action.
We had this conversation with Zeo a dozen times this thread already. Indoctrination has gotten sofar into his head he cannot see anything else anymore.
I'm sorry, I just don't support the murder of innocent people.
On May 03 2014 07:33 semantics wrote: Either way russia keep inciting civil war by basically being complicent and even openly in favor in people using in the name of russia for insurrection.
They are not using Russia as a country, but Russia in the ideological-block sense. Waving the Russian flag at anti-maidan would be the same as waving an EU flag at maidan. Its an idea
Except the EU didn't annex a part of the ukraine with the help of soldiers pretending not to from EU. Then openly suggest that they would be willing to support further insurrection to secure their borders. Btw all annexations post WWII have been done through military action of one country taking over another/parts of another. It's never been a mutually agreed upon action.
We had this conversation with Zeo a dozen times this thread already. Indoctrination has gotten sofar into his head he cannot see anything else anymore.
I'm sorry, I just don't support the murder of innocent people.
No you just tell them to suck Hitler's cock, that's right?
On May 03 2014 07:33 semantics wrote: Either way russia keep inciting civil war by basically being complicent and even openly in favor in people using in the name of russia for insurrection.
They are not using Russia as a country, but Russia in the ideological-block sense. Waving the Russian flag at anti-maidan would be the same as waving an EU flag at maidan. Its an idea
Except the EU didn't annex a part of the ukraine with the help of soldiers pretending not to from EU. Then openly suggest that they would be willing to support further insurrection to secure their borders. Btw all annexations post WWII have been done through military action of one country taking over another/parts of another. It's never been a mutually agreed upon action.
We had this conversation with Zeo a dozen times this thread already. Indoctrination has gotten sofar into his head he cannot see anything else anymore.
I'm sorry, I just don't support the murder of innocent people.
No you just tell them to suck Hitler's cock, that's right?
Video of thugs cutting a leg off of a captured anti-maidan supporter. Police just standing by.
video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
No one will help you, this is politics no white or black, you may hate russian president and politics all you want, that also wont change a thing, hes not evil, neither is he good, as the rest of politicians from any given country, despite the appereances.
What a strange attitude to take. He is obviously worse than politicians in democratic countries that when their terms of office comes choose to retire from politics instead of maintain their power. And he is better than someone like Zyganov. Contrary to your cynicism, reforms are possible. Many Eastern European countries were in the same position as Ukraine was in 89 or 91 and they've improved significantly -- and things in them have improved for everyone. And many countries were worse of than Ukraine in 91 and gotten worse too, like all the Stans except Kazakhstan.
Despite all the things he is or he's not, there is no better president for Russia then Putin today, and thats the fact.
And its a staggeringly meaningless fact since there have been only two, Yeltsin and Putin and neither would allow (a) decrease in power of presidency (b) competitive elections
You can't compare Russia to any small european country, i guess the comparison with United States wont be that accurate either, or China in that regard, you cannot judge everyone by the same manner, we speaking about different enviroments, cultures, historys, so calling Putin in any of possible or impossible situation good or evil, is wrong, that all i say.
Yes, Russia is a magical and unique country that cant be judged by any other standards standards. Thats exactly the kind of attitude that is the problem and that lets Putin off the hook
We don't know what woud happened to Ukraine IF this or IF that. I tried to search for economic comparisons between the Soviet Ukraine and Ukraine after 1991 untill today, i kinda didn't find anything usefull , so its hard to predict anything and what would be best, culturally Ukraine was never far from Russia, so its hard to imagine what would happened if Ukraine was a part of EU for example because of that.
Huh? Ukraine was also not that different from Poland in 1989 and only slightly poorer than Czechoslovakia, today Poland is more than 3x as rich. The idea of EU isnt some kind of cultural or racial idea about unique civilization (that is actually silly, Germans are very different from the English and Swedes are different from Spaniards), its the idea that rule of law, free press, regular elections in general will lead to decrease in corruption and increase in achievements of citizens.
Well, have you listened to any other candidate ? Its easy to spot inteligent person, and i haven't heard of any other inteligent person from any other party in Russia, of course i do not follow it closely, but i ask my friend in Russia and thats the reality they tell me. Feel free to point me at least one , go ahead.
Comparing isn't helpfull, that all i meant, you lived in one country only right ? So how you objectively compare something that is happeing in other ? I mean thats impossible to archive , you just missing so much information on personal and cultural level, you might watch all the movies or read all you want, but 1 day there will blow most of that info away.
So whats your point of comparing it to Poland ? I would love to see why and how Poland archived that, but simply putting it like that, i already know that, thank you.
Video of thugs cutting a leg off of a captured anti-maidan supporter. Police just standing by.
video of a police officer trying to apply medical help to an unidentified person with a cut on his leg while.
Wow, just wow. People with obvious markings tying them to the maidan side hitting a helpless man so many times they practically cut off his leg and thats the best you can come up with?
How much blood and death will be enough?
The guy on the ground has also "obvious markings" tying him to the maidan side, red/black right sector tassles. Then the police comes in, the thugs run away and the police provides medical help. Everyone involved is speaking in Russian.
He is wearing a red armband that means he is with federalists. Its is not red and black
I've got a personal question for u. How many times u've been wawing russian flag today?
No one will help you, this is politics no white or black, you may hate russian president and politics all you want, that also wont change a thing, hes not evil, neither is he good, as the rest of politicians from any given country, despite the appereances. And dont do a typical mistakes and use word "Flag" "color" "country" it makes people from other country react to this , this globalized words refer to all the citizens and culture to that flag you mention. This is how we got to this point, and this is why the country is so divided and polarized. If i remember correctly , at the begining of this thread you were anti-maidan , so to speak, and your father lost his job, or something similar, now you took another side, tell me, is something different for you ? I bet its not.
Yes, I was anti-maidan at the very beggining, than things started to change rapidly, my dad didn't lost his job, i realised he was over-polarized, he had "a bad feeling", he's still bashing things sometimes. Few friends of mine took the red corner of this battle, u was shocked how cruel people might be. Some of my friends were dreaming about russian tanks in our streets, they clearly belived in a bright future with Russia by this way. Seriously? Tanks in a ciy streets is a good sign? Slavic union? USSR? The next thing, wearing ukrainian colors in ukraine is normal i think, right? But some elder generations, basicly those who was born in USSR might call u a brainless banderovets, simple cause u're in national colors of your country, u are becoming a personal enemy of them, is it okay? And at the same time they thinks it's fine to wave russian flag with red comminist flag aswell, and shouting "Ros-si-ya".
And the very last thing, Czech republic used to be a part of communis block after WW2, they're also slavic, right? Look at them now, look at their country, u won't find that big difference between people in finansional terms, when at the same time, here, in ukraine and russia, we have a huge difference, we got many oligarchs aswell as many poor people, It should not be that way, look at average life level in Ukraine/Russian and Czech Republic, and make a comparison.
It's not a mistake to tell about "flag", "color" and so on, it's one of the biggest purposes atm. U can simply ingore it now.
See, I've got a plenty of reasons to change my point of view dramatically during last few months. It won't be a short-list.
So what are you saying exactly i didn't understand. You can freely wave the Ukrainian Flag, you always could, it was never a problem, in fact during sports events every single citizen was behind that flag, or events that requiered it. But the difference now is that the majority of pro-maidan movement wave it with many other symbolics, spits on Russian flag , for example, raising the hate in cultural level, because when for example in VK some random idiot put russian flag with nazi symbol on it and puts "Slava Ukraini" in his status, that makes angry all the civil people in other country for no reason, thats why i said to not use words "Flag","Country X", etc. It's wrong and it won't help to live better, and improve anything. The Polarization tends to do one thing and one thing only, divide in 2, not 3 or 4 but only 2. So if before you could be neutral Ukrainian and wave your flag with good reasons to be supportive, or whatever reason that is of waving flag. Now it always come with Black and Red, Right Sector flag, always together, like there is no other version of thos situation, i mean you must undestand this dont you ? So what other people think who speak Russian and watch russian movies, listen to russian songs, of course they will be scared. And guess what, they will choose a different flag to wave. A Russian one. At least thats my undestanding of the current situation and why it came to this point, where civilians kill civilians. And Economy is even worse. Also i don't know about comprasion with Czech Republic, i believe neither me or you can predict or rewrite history, right now we got what we got, also is a much smaller country and i think much more united one i believe, much more uni-cultural if this word exist .
I suggested u a comparison with Czech Republic not by a randomly picking something, we are also pretty close historicly and ethnicly, but the overall difference in life level is huge.
Secondly, about flag waving:
It never used to be a problem before, I do remember brightly Euro2012. But I had a few small accidents recently with national symbolics, even tho it wasn't actual natinal uniform of something else, i was walking in my yellow t-short, simply yellow top and dark blue jeans with blue shoes, and i've been called as brainless banderovets by some random 40-45 years old guy. What the...? I've never been involved in protests. If it could be younger person, i could possibly face a duel with him He was obviosly polarized, more or less but polarized. Other people was not that lucky as me for example, we had many people in Kharkov with ukrainian flags and broken heads while relativly big pro-russian meetings.
Now am wearing neutrally, in a classic way, but with current situation, even lesser manifistation of patritism might guide u to a problems with ur health.
Ofc it might be differently in western citys of our country, and I think it has to be, but when it comes to eastern citys like Kharkov, u may face such problems.
EPT
About language, stop even mention this, both languages wide spreading all over the country, and it nobody the fuck cares what language u're going to speak, russian or ukrainian.
