On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
People don't care Putin or Kerry calling them that but when ever few pages another pro-Russian comes in here spouting about Nazi-fascist Ukraine government then yes it will get discussed.
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree.
Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/462176014110437376 Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
lol dude the recession is already hitting Russia hard you can't even imagine how hard the funny thing is that those who are in the government do not feel it, because 10 million dollar less is not a problem for their pocket. So where does the change come from? Or maybe you somehow expect that those regular people who are hit hard by this recession will take the bats and start revolution? How is this ANY DIFFERENT from what happens in Ukraine? Powerful and corrupted governments can be only changed either by nation wide revolution (equals mass deaths) or very long period of time (from Lenin to Gorbachev = 70 years). Read a book or something.
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/462176014110437376 Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
lol dude the recession is already hitting Russia hard you can't even imagine how hard the funny thing is that those who are in the government do not feel it, because 10 million dollar less is not a problem for their pocket. So where does the change come from? Or maybe you somehow expect that those regular people who are hit hard by this recession will take the bats and start revolution? How is this ANY DIFFERENT from what happens in Ukraine? Powerful and corrupted governments can be only changed either by nation wide revolution (equals mass deaths) or very long period of time (from Lenin to Gorbachev = 70 years). Read a book or something.
Take out the first and last lines, that's actually a pretty sensible statement
On May 02 2014 16:04 sgtnoobkilla wrote: According to their radio (channel link here), the separatists are requesting that all citizens in Slavyansk meet in the town hall to record (I think its a video; ugh, hate translations on the fly) a personal video-petition to Putin to demand intervention from Russia.
On May 02 2014 15:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Well, I look like an idiot. I just stated several hours ago how there is no way the Ukrainian government would fall into this trap! And here they are!
The Russians have given everyone enough migraines about how they'll intervene if the government in Kiev does what they're doing right now. Bleh
It goes both ways.
You need to remember that the Kremlin is fine with all this chaos in Ukraine considering Crimea is already in the Russian fold; intervening elsewhere in Ukraine for a bunch of upstarts is not what they want.
The Ukrainian government might possibly get support from the West if there is a clear and present danger that is not speculation; images of Russian tanks rolling onto Ukrainian soil is going to ruffle some feathers in NATO; especially Poland and the Baltics (even if EU members like Germany will staunchly disagree and continue to do nothing).
On the other hand, Putin is put into a Russian roulette game where both pistols are loaded; intervene and escalate the crapstorm and spark a limited conflict that could potentially spiral out of control, or not intervene and take crap for it anyway. At that point, it will boil down to whichever poison he deems is the lesser of the two evils.
Of course they are fine with the chaos. But, while no one from US and Co. really have any interest in Ukraine, there is a extremely strong interest in opposing Russia, which imho has been the primary reason for all the bombastic rhetoric and sanctions. Also, I'm surprised Ukraine hasn't received overwhelming amounts of aid.
Russia will not intervene on behalf of insurgents, you are correct. Russia doesn't even help them. The insurgents whine like 12 year-olds about how they get no help. As I've argued numerous times already, however, Russia will certainly use Ukrainian aggression in the eastern provinces as a justification to intervene. The insurgents are simply a means to justifying Russian action. lol.
Feathers are already well-ruffled and have been for a while now, though US feathers appear to be 100x more ruffled than Poland or Baltics. Of course, this is more expected than it would appear to be. Ukraine is the rope in the tug-of-war, and Russia is pulling much harder than anyone else, including guys with mad game. This is the greatest of affronts to US interests, though the reality is, I'd be phenomenally surprised if we gave >0 fucks about Ukraine. For our intents and interests, they're just another state to grab in our opposition to Russia. Russia wasn't cool with that for obvious reasons, but without Russia even having to lift a finger after Crimea, these insurgents are independently doing Russia's dirty work, and I'm sure some of them do realize it.
On May 02 2014 16:20 kukarachaa wrote: Video of the captured Ukrainian pilot.
According to the separatist soldier, who brought the wounded pilot to town, separatists shot down the helicopter, which forced to make an emergency landing in the field. Separatists went to the spot where helicopter landed and were observing from woods, as another Ukrainian helicopter landed next to the damaged one. Soldiers came out, took the pilots handgun and left without taking the wounded pilot. After that separatists took the wounded pilot to their car and drove to the city. According the doctor he has a gunshot wound in a hip area, that damaged a major blood vessel and fractured part of the bone, he urgently needs an operation.
So, another helicopter lands, and the Ukrainian soldiers just disembark to take the guy's pistol and then fly off? This literally makes no sense.
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/462176014110437376 Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
What does this guy have anything to do with Putin again?
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/462176014110437376 Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
lol dude the recession is already hitting Russia hard you can't even imagine how hard the funny thing is that those who are in the government do not feel it, because 10 million dollar less is not a problem for their pocket. So where does the change come from? Or maybe you somehow expect that those regular people who are hit hard by this recession will take the bats and start revolution? How is this ANY DIFFERENT from what happens in Ukraine? Powerful and corrupted governments can be only changed either by nation wide revolution (equals mass deaths) or very long period of time (from Lenin to Gorbachev = 70 years). Read a book or something.
RIP. This is what happens when the world's biggest country economically can fuck you just by saying the word "sanction". Well, look on the bright side. At least it isn't a full trade embargo. hehehe. But eh, just wait 5-10 years. By then, the US will probably have its hands entirely tied up with China. Maybe Putin and Friends will wise up during that time and invest entirely in the economy rather than harryturs into other countries.
MOSCOW — The Kremlin said Friday that “all hope” for an internationally negotiated settlement in Ukraine had been destroyed, hours after two Ukrainian helicopters were shot down as government forces launched an assault to dislodge pro-Russian separatists from the eastern city of Slovyansk.
A spokesman for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, Dmitri S. Peskov, told news agencies that the “punitive operation” against the separatists’ eastern stronghold effectively had destroyed “all hope for the viability of the Geneva agreements” negotiated in the Swiss city on April 17 by the United States, Russia, Ukraine and the European Union, which were intended to defuse the crisis.
The agreements, which never taken deep root, had become increasingly frayed in recent days. Much of eastern Ukraine slipped beyond the control of the authorities in Kiev as militants took control of a string of official buildings and captured a German-led team of military observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
After a conversation on Thursday with Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, Mr. Putin dispatched an envoy, Vladimir Lukin, to Slovyansk to seek the release of the observers. Initially, Mr. Peskov said there were concerns about his safety, but the Russian news agency Interfax reported later that he was unharmed.
The clashes on Friday seemed to sharpen the East-West confrontation. While the European Commission in Brussels said it was watching the situation in Ukraine with growing concern, the Russian Foreign Ministry urged Western powers to abandon what it said was a “destructive” policy of support for the interim government in Kiev. “This will allow a real process of de-escalation to begin,” the ministry said in a statement, according to Reuters.
Russia’s response to the clashes were in keeping with earlier efforts by the Kremlin to steer events in Ukraine while casting the authorities in Kiev, along with their supporters, as obstacles.
MOSCOW — The Kremlin said Friday that “all hope” for an internationally negotiated settlement in Ukraine had been destroyed, hours after two Ukrainian helicopters were shot down as government forces launched an assault to dislodge pro-Russian separatists from the eastern city of Slovyansk.
A spokesman for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, Dmitri S. Peskov, told news agencies that the “punitive operation” against the separatists’ eastern stronghold effectively had destroyed “all hope for the viability of the Geneva agreements” negotiated in the Swiss city on April 17 by the United States, Russia, Ukraine and the European Union, which were intended to defuse the crisis.
The agreements, which never taken deep root, had become increasingly frayed in recent days. Much of eastern Ukraine slipped beyond the control of the authorities in Kiev as militants took control of a string of official buildings and captured a German-led team of military observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
After a conversation on Thursday with Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, Mr. Putin dispatched an envoy, Vladimir Lukin, to Slovyansk to seek the release of the observers. Initially, Mr. Peskov said there were concerns about his safety, but the Russian news agency Interfax reported later that he was unharmed.
The clashes on Friday seemed to sharpen the East-West confrontation. While the European Commission in Brussels said it was watching the situation in Ukraine with growing concern, the Russian Foreign Ministry urged Western powers to abandon what it said was a “destructive” policy of support for the interim government in Kiev. “This will allow a real process of de-escalation to begin,” the ministry said in a statement, according to Reuters.
Russia’s response to the clashes were in keeping with earlier efforts by the Kremlin to steer events in Ukraine while casting the authorities in Kiev, along with their supporters, as obstacles.
On May 02 2014 21:26 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Uh oh.
MOSCOW — The Kremlin said Friday that “all hope” for an internationally negotiated settlement in Ukraine had been destroyed, hours after two Ukrainian helicopters were shot down as government forces launched an assault to dislodge pro-Russian separatists from the eastern city of Slovyansk.
A spokesman for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, Dmitri S. Peskov, told news agencies that the “punitive operation” against the separatists’ eastern stronghold effectively had destroyed “all hope for the viability of the Geneva agreements” negotiated in the Swiss city on April 17 by the United States, Russia, Ukraine and the European Union, which were intended to defuse the crisis.
The agreements, which never taken deep root, had become increasingly frayed in recent days. Much of eastern Ukraine slipped beyond the control of the authorities in Kiev as militants took control of a string of official buildings and captured a German-led team of military observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
After a conversation on Thursday with Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, Mr. Putin dispatched an envoy, Vladimir Lukin, to Slovyansk to seek the release of the observers. Initially, Mr. Peskov said there were concerns about his safety, but the Russian news agency Interfax reported later that he was unharmed.
The clashes on Friday seemed to sharpen the East-West confrontation. While the European Commission in Brussels said it was watching the situation in Ukraine with growing concern, the Russian Foreign Ministry urged Western powers to abandon what it said was a “destructive” policy of support for the interim government in Kiev. “This will allow a real process of de-escalation to begin,” the ministry said in a statement, according to Reuters.
Russia’s response to the clashes were in keeping with earlier efforts by the Kremlin to steer events in Ukraine while casting the authorities in Kiev, along with their supporters, as obstacles.
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/462176014110437376 Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
What does this guy have anything to do with Putin again?
This guy says help is coming and the help he is talking about is the help of Putin's Russia.
On May 02 2014 21:14 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: As I've argued numerous times already, however, Russia will certainly use Ukrainian aggression in the eastern provinces as a justification to intervene. The insurgents are simply a means to justifying Russian action. lol. ..... these insurgents are independently doing Russia's dirty work, and I'm sure some of them do realize it.
Sadly enough that pretty sums it up. And this is just wonderful...
...to add more fat to the fire, Russia's newly "liberated" comrades in Crimea (the real self-defence forces; not the Russians from a few weeks back) will be aiding the uprisings in the east:
"The Right Sector is destroying our cities. Mothers of the Right Sector, please withdraw your sons from that mess." (?) "Our goal will be the total annihilation of them, no prisoners." "People of the East, we will move and destroy all that fights against our common people."
Apart from the fiery rhetoric that would make Stalin proud, they've also made two things clear: - They will execute anyone who is affiliated with the RS. - Two battalions of their self-defence forces will mobilise to move into the South-East as of today.
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/462176014110437376 Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
What does this guy have anything to do with Putin again?
This guy says help is coming and the help he is talking about is the help of Putin's Russia.
The insurgents have been saying that for weeks. Then they bitch about how Russia refuses to help them. It seems that it's little more than a morale thing. I think it's quite evident Putin couldn't give a rat's ass about these ragtag bandits.
If and when Russia rolls in the armor, I am without a doubt it won't be for the sake of the insurgents, just saying.
I would not be necessarily angry with Putin with this specific matter. I would be angry with these guys for unintentionally/independently giving Putin a wonderful hand of cards to work with.
On May 02 2014 19:14 mdb wrote: This non stop talking about nazis and faschists is getting ridiculous.
Exactly, it's as if people in this thread thing Putin calling the maideners nazis automatically is the key to invalidating Russia's actions. There's no different between this and Kerry calling all the maideners peaceful protesters and all the anti-maideners terrorists, standard propaganda.
No it's different because it's to a different degree. https://twitter.com/MaximEristavi/status/462176014110437376 Look at that fucking happy piece of shit. I hope the recession will hit Russia hard, maybe after that there will be a government change in Russia. Fucking amazing that in the 21st century we are still plagued by bastards like Putin.
What does this guy have anything to do with Putin again?
This guy says help is coming and the help he is talking about is the help of Putin's Russia.
The insurgents have been saying that for weeks. Then they bitch about how Russia refuses to help them. It seems that it's little more than a morale thing. I think it's quite evident Putin couldn't give a rat's ass about these ragtag bandits.
If and when Russia rolls in the armor, I am without a doubt it won't be for the sake of the insurgents, just saying.
I would not be necessarily angry with Putin with this specific matter. I would be angry with these guys for unintentionally giving Putin a wonderful hand of cards.
It is clear that Putin is playing chess while the insurgents are playing tic-tac-toe. I think Putin is starting to feel the pressure politically from the Duma to move into eastern Ukraine and I think he is starting to feel the scorched earth rhetorics of the media mobilizing that sentiment a bit too much, a bit too fast. That Russia should need to intervene would not be Putins favourite situation since it will incur actual trade sanctions from Europe and international condemnation. I think Putin had hoped Ukraines fear of Russian intervention would be enough to deter a reaction to the insurgents, but now he is forced to act in some way.
Calling the Geneva convention dead is stating the obvious. The next move is still on Putin and he is pretty heavily pinned. Putin can either invade officially or stall by starting a new round of negotiations. It obviously depends on the polical climate and Putins overall strategy, but officially moving into Ukraine is not going to be an easy choice.
Oh my god, I can barely even watch this. Fucking animals, who knows how many people are dead.
I wonder where have you been when the fucking animals tortured, murdered and dumped Rybak into the river in Gorlovka. Have you lamented over his fate so badly that you could not post?
Obama was speaking to reporters at the White House after talks with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who also supported a move to wider sanctions and said the European Union and the United States would continue to work in concert on the issue.
"The next step is going to be a broader-based sectoral sanctions regime," Obama said. Merkel agreed, saying that May 25 was a critical date and "we will see to it that elections can take place."
That is a further time pressure on Putin, but to what avail is the question? So far his government has been adamant in keeping the story consistent and never critizising the actions of the insurgents and changing tone could be seen as weakness in Russias domestic environment. It gets harder and harder to see a satisfactory solution for all parts that doesn't lead to a very dark place. Especially if Russia insists on international UN peacekeeping being off the table.
Btw. things start to really heat up in UN. Churkin accusing "the west" of interfering, citing insurgents for hearing english on the comms during the Ukrainian offensive and this one: "The US and EU take great responsibility practically cutting all paths to resolve the crisis peacefully," (Russian media shows Churkin and Ban Ki-Moon, you have to wonder if there are other opinions among the people being called out? Dishonest coverage?)
This sounds like a step in a plan. Just not sure what the plan is. Implicating US and EU as conspirators with Ukraine sounds at best like a domestic political justification, but it is only reinforcing Merkel and Obamas diagnosis of economic isolation as a necessity. Russia is indeed themself practically cutting all paths to resolve the crisis peacefully by going further down that line of unbending indignation at everyones actions but their own and the insurgents...
They will all fucking burn in hell, every single one of those Bandera shits and Chernomorets hooligans. They even stopped a fire truck coming to the scene and beat up the firefighters. Those fucking junta pigs will pay for this mass murder.
EPT
