On April 26 2014 02:13 zeo wrote: [quote] Where in that timeline did Yanukovych send the army into Lviv after they declared independence
[quote] They profit when a destabled Ukraine starts destabilizing Russia
how the fuck are they destabilizing Russia?
Are you serious?
Yes i am serious. Do tell me how a post madian Ukraine is destablizing Russia. I would love to know.
As I edited in before but I'll post it again. It's flowers and rainbows in Russia right now?
Sorry we dont get to see how its going inside Russia on the news so yes I am asking you how the Ukraine is destabilizing Russia.
So since the violent overthrow in Ukraine there has been no threats or sanctions sent Russia's way? Wonder why there are like 200 pages predicting the imminent downfall and economic collapse of Russia. hmm
Which happened because Russia invaded and annaxed the Crimea under false pretenses of racial oppression. So again. How did a post Madian Ukraine destabilize Russia?
Post-Maidan Ukraine caused what happened in Crimea.
Back to that one ey. Remind me how that worked out last time you tried to argue it. Wait dont bother i'll tell it for you. Russia went in under the guise of protecting russian speaking locals while there was no threat against them. Once there they tried to provoke the Ukraine army into attacking them and when that failed they held a highly dubious referendum and declared the Crimea a part of Russia.
You'll never admit it but you don't have a single argument that holds up for your side of events and your trying to run around in circles hoping people will stop calling you out on your bullshit.
Sorry, I didn't see this earlier so I'll answer now. If the people behind euromaidan felt they had a right to protest then the people of Crimea had that right ten-fold. The unelected government in Kiev did absolutely nothing to deescalate the situation and resorted to a stream of threats. The insane amounts of russophobic propaganda in western-Ukranian media before/during/after maidan put the nail in the coffin for any type of reconciliation between the two sides.
It does matter who started it, would Ukraine have been in this situation if the 'protesters' had stuck to their end of the deal? The answer is no.
Yes i am serious. Do tell me how a post madian Ukraine is destablizing Russia. I would love to know.
As I edited in before but I'll post it again. It's flowers and rainbows in Russia right now?
Sorry we dont get to see how its going inside Russia on the news so yes I am asking you how the Ukraine is destabilizing Russia.
So since the violent overthrow in Ukraine there has been no threats or sanctions sent Russia's way? Wonder why there are like 200 pages predicting the imminent downfall and economic collapse of Russia. hmm
Which happened because Russia invaded and annaxed the Crimea under false pretenses of racial oppression. So again. How did a post Madian Ukraine destabilize Russia?
Post-Maidan Ukraine caused what happened in Crimea.
So invading other countries under false pretenses and then getting sanctioned for it is the fault of the Ukraine? Interesting logic
Nope, Ukraine being taken over by a violent mob and alienating half the country was what happened. Its also not the fault of Ukraine as a whole, but of the people behind maidan.
Oh yeah, I forgot, the evil fascist junta that took control Ukraine and needed to be eradicated by glorious Russia. I'll not continue this discussion, it does not make any sense to talk to you.
... they are an evil fascist anti-semite cia-sponsored nationalist anti-Russian Mafia. Get your facts straight.
On April 26 2014 02:16 Gorsameth wrote: [quote] how the fuck are they destabilizing Russia?
Are you serious?
Yes i am serious. Do tell me how a post madian Ukraine is destablizing Russia. I would love to know.
As I edited in before but I'll post it again. It's flowers and rainbows in Russia right now?
Sorry we dont get to see how its going inside Russia on the news so yes I am asking you how the Ukraine is destabilizing Russia.
So since the violent overthrow in Ukraine there has been no threats or sanctions sent Russia's way? Wonder why there are like 200 pages predicting the imminent downfall and economic collapse of Russia. hmm
Which happened because Russia invaded and annaxed the Crimea under false pretenses of racial oppression. So again. How did a post Madian Ukraine destabilize Russia?
Post-Maidan Ukraine caused what happened in Crimea.
Back to that one ey. Remind me how that worked out last time you tried to argue it. Wait dont bother i'll tell it for you. Russia went in under the guise of protecting russian speaking locals while there was no threat against them. Once there they tried to provoke the Ukraine army into attacking them and when that failed they held a highly dubious referendum and declared the Crimea a part of Russia.
You'll never admit it but you don't have a single argument that holds up for your side of events and your trying to run around in circles hoping people will stop calling you out on your bullshit.
Sorry, I didn't see this earlier so I'll answer now. If the people behind euromaidan felt they had a right to protest then the people of Crimea had that right ten-fold. The unelected government in Kiev did absolutely nothing to deescalate the situation and resorted to a stream of threats. The insane amounts of russophobic propaganda in western-Ukranian media before/during/after maidan put the nail in the coffin for any type of reconciliation between the two sides.
It does matter who started it, would Ukraine have been in this situation if the 'protesters' had stuck to their end of the deal? The answer is no.
Yes the people of the Crimea had that right. Russia did not. Kiev did everything to deescalate when Russian troops started sieging and assaulting there military bases. And no there was no Russophobic media prior to Russia's invasion of the Crimea. Once again facts dont seem to slow your wild fantasy down at all.
Ps. Still not heard how a post Madian Ukraine is destabilizing Russia.
On April 26 2014 02:16 Gorsameth wrote: [quote] how the fuck are they destabilizing Russia?
Are you serious?
Yes i am serious. Do tell me how a post madian Ukraine is destablizing Russia. I would love to know.
As I edited in before but I'll post it again. It's flowers and rainbows in Russia right now?
Sorry we dont get to see how its going inside Russia on the news so yes I am asking you how the Ukraine is destabilizing Russia.
So since the violent overthrow in Ukraine there has been no threats or sanctions sent Russia's way? Wonder why there are like 200 pages predicting the imminent downfall and economic collapse of Russia. hmm
Which happened because Russia invaded and annaxed the Crimea under false pretenses of racial oppression. So again. How did a post Madian Ukraine destabilize Russia?
Post-Maidan Ukraine caused what happened in Crimea.
Back to that one ey. Remind me how that worked out last time you tried to argue it. Wait dont bother i'll tell it for you. Russia went in under the guise of protecting russian speaking locals while there was no threat against them. Once there they tried to provoke the Ukraine army into attacking them and when that failed they held a highly dubious referendum and declared the Crimea a part of Russia.
You'll never admit it but you don't have a single argument that holds up for your side of events and your trying to run around in circles hoping people will stop calling you out on your bullshit.
Sorry, I didn't see this earlier so I'll answer now. If the people behind euromaidan felt they had a right to protest then the people of Crimea had that right ten-fold. The unelected government in Kiev did absolutely nothing to deescalate the situation and resorted to a stream of threats. The insane amounts of russophobic propaganda in western-Ukranian media before/during/after maidan put the nail in the coffin for any type of reconciliation between the two sides.
It does matter who started it, would Ukraine have been in this situation if the 'protesters' had stuck to their end of the deal? The answer is no.
Hahahaha that is some very revisionist history there, buddy! December 8 we had some pretty clear russian "opinion coverage" (source) and it has only gotten worse since then. Calling Ukraines media out as the starters of the propaganda war is pretty rich in that context...
On April 26 2014 02:22 Gorsameth wrote: [quote] Yes i am serious. Do tell me how a post madian Ukraine is destablizing Russia. I would love to know.
As I edited in before but I'll post it again. It's flowers and rainbows in Russia right now?
Sorry we dont get to see how its going inside Russia on the news so yes I am asking you how the Ukraine is destabilizing Russia.
So since the violent overthrow in Ukraine there has been no threats or sanctions sent Russia's way? Wonder why there are like 200 pages predicting the imminent downfall and economic collapse of Russia. hmm
Which happened because Russia invaded and annaxed the Crimea under false pretenses of racial oppression. So again. How did a post Madian Ukraine destabilize Russia?
Post-Maidan Ukraine caused what happened in Crimea.
So invading other countries under false pretenses and then getting sanctioned for it is the fault of the Ukraine? Interesting logic
Nope, Ukraine being taken over by a violent mob and alienating half the country was what happened. Its also not the fault of Ukraine as a whole, but of the people behind maidan.
Oh yeah, I forgot, the evil fascist junta that took control Ukraine and needed to be eradicated by glorious Russia. I'll not continue this discussion, it does not make any sense to talk to you.
... they are an evil fascist anti-semite cia-sponsored nationalist anti-Russian Mafia. Get your facts straight.
Haha true ^^ Paleman and the serbian guy made my day with their comments. There are funny russians (or pro russians) commenting on swedish media sites as well. The propaganda machine going like clockwork
Anyway, the Russian media seems to play a crucial role in misleading the russian population on the situation. Putins grip on the media is clearly tightening and social media will soon be affected as well. Can't believe this is happening in the age of free information.
On April 26 2014 02:23 zeo wrote: [quote] As I edited in before but I'll post it again. It's flowers and rainbows in Russia right now?
Sorry we dont get to see how its going inside Russia on the news so yes I am asking you how the Ukraine is destabilizing Russia.
So since the violent overthrow in Ukraine there has been no threats or sanctions sent Russia's way? Wonder why there are like 200 pages predicting the imminent downfall and economic collapse of Russia. hmm
Which happened because Russia invaded and annaxed the Crimea under false pretenses of racial oppression. So again. How did a post Madian Ukraine destabilize Russia?
Post-Maidan Ukraine caused what happened in Crimea.
So invading other countries under false pretenses and then getting sanctioned for it is the fault of the Ukraine? Interesting logic
Nope, Ukraine being taken over by a violent mob and alienating half the country was what happened. Its also not the fault of Ukraine as a whole, but of the people behind maidan.
Oh yeah, I forgot, the evil fascist junta that took control Ukraine and needed to be eradicated by glorious Russia. I'll not continue this discussion, it does not make any sense to talk to you.
... they are an evil fascist anti-semite cia-sponsored nationalist anti-Russian Mafia. Get your facts straight.
Haha true ^^ Paleman and the serbian guy made my day with their comments. There are funny russians (or pro russians) commenting on swedish media sites as well. The propaganda machine going like clockwork
Anyway, the Russian media seems to play a crucial role in misleading the russian population on the situation. Putins grip on the media is clearly tightening and social media will soon be affected as well. Can't believe this is happening in the age of free information.
Yeah with the new laws you have Russian pro-gamers facing having to either close their twitter accounts or register as media outlets and pay fees and face regulations that they have no knowledge of at all.
I really hope that the OSCE observers kidnapped by the pro-Russian separatists will be released safely. Kidnapping them really does seem like a foolish idea, even more so than kidnapping all of the journalists and politicians they already have (not to mention the ones they have tortured and killed.)
On April 26 2014 03:42 Roman666 wrote: Polish media report that pro-Russia separatists kidnapped members of OSCE mission in Slavyansk.
7 members from OSCE has been missing since yesterday. 1 german translator, 3 germans, 1 dane, 1 swede, 1 chech and a pole with military expertice, were travelling in a bus with 5 ukrainian officers and a bus-driver. According to less reliable media the separatists claim that there were "forbidden bullet shells and other munitions" in the bus and they are checking the papers of the people in the bus. according to RT
@radi militant fascists and ultranationalists fronted the euromaidan movement, their leader was offered (unclear on wether he acted) a position in govt and they were asked to join the national guard. they weren't disarmed or properly dealt with and now they are fighting anti-maidan both on their own and under the national guard.
this was done openly with western acquiescence. holding russia to a 'higher' standard seems a bit far-fetched, but ofc it would be great.
the angry hobbit and his crew holed up in slavyansk seem like thugs that would justify action from an ukrainian govt. a gamble from kiev, they have disseminated propaganda about the 'mayor' and the militia there to justify their operation and their failure to deal with right sector seems to have resulted in the easter shootings outside slavyansk. their own incompetence lead to the anti-maidans aquiring 6 armored vehicles when the soldiers manning gave them away 'to their fellow ukrainians'.
if this goes awry they will have to shoulder motherload of responsibility themselves.
a bit bold to claim this is the only way forward (it doesn't seem like a very constructive viewpoint either, keke), i wonder what the russkis would want in return. i don't think it's too late for ukraine to sort itself out, but they can't count on help from foreign powers.
slavyansk does indeed seem to be the violent exception for now, great if it stays like that.
@paleman yes, they are, funny. the ukrainian one was made with backing from NED (or USAID can't remember, same shit different wrapping) who are engaged in subversive shenanigans in venezuela as well.
On April 26 2014 03:42 Roman666 wrote: Polish media report that pro-Russia separatists kidnapped members of OSCE mission in Slavyansk.
7 members from OSCE has been missing since yesterday. 1 german translator, 3 germans, 1 dane, 1 swede, 1 chech and a pole with military expertice, were travelling in a bus with 5 ukrainian officers and a bus-driver. According to less reliable media the separatists claim that there were "forbidden bullet shells and other munitions" in the bus and they are checking the papers of the people in the bus. according to RT
We should be happy they only "found" "forbidden bullet shells and other munitions". God knows what could happen if OSCE was smuggling nukes or chem weapons.
dunno if posted, 10 days old, right sector thug kills two anti-fascist demonstrators outside an alleged right sector weapon cache in khrakov, google translate.
...
As a result of the event from his gunshot wounds killed two people - residents of Kharkov, which at the time of the events were outside in the crowd pro-citizens. Also injured four people, one of whom - a police officer (was in uniform attire while on duty). All the injured were hospitalized.
In addition, at 7-30 mph. to the hospital turned citizen, member of the organization "Right Sector", with gunshot wounds of the extremities. The circumstances obtaining damages under investigation.
uh, maybe not. a helicopter exploded at least. here's the rt-article at lest: rt, youtube. but hopefully will get confirmed by sth a bit more reliable. wonder what they're saying on the video.
For real this time, or still the fake-video of the syrian mig?
edit: well, that's certainly a different video, pretty much shows how much of a possibiity de-escalation is now (if that is what it claims to be). I wonder what language the guys in the first video are speaking. The ones laughing. Seems a bit like they know what's going on, because that's an entirely different reaction to how "eastern europeans" act on accidents (quite helpful and empathic, mostly).
On April 26 2014 04:43 m4ini wrote: For real this time, or still the fake-video of the syrian mig?
edit: well, that's certainly a different video, pretty much shows how much of a possibiity de-escalation is now (if that is what it claims to be). I wonder what language the guys in the first video are speaking. The ones laughing. Seems a bit like they know what's going on, because that's an entirely different reaction to how "eastern europeans" act on accidents (quite helpful and empathic, mostly).
They are laughing at somebody next to them and that person's reaction being spooked by the explosion. The reason they are not panicking and taking it pretty easy. This is a third explosion, two occurred prior to that one.
On April 26 2014 04:34 nunez wrote: dunno if posted, 10 days old, right sector thug kills two anti-fascist demonstrators outside an alleged right sector weapon cache in khrakov, google translate.
As a result of the event from his gunshot wounds killed two people - residents of Kharkov, which at the time of the events were outside in the crowd pro-citizens. Also injured four people, one of whom - a police officer (was in uniform attire while on duty). All the injured were hospitalized.
In addition, at 7-30 mph. to the hospital turned citizen, member of the organization "Right Sector", with gunshot wounds of the extremities. The circumstances obtaining damages under investigation.
uh, maybe not. a helicopter exploded at least. here's the rt-article at lest: rt, youtube. but hopefully will get confirmed by sth a bit more reliable. wonder what they're saying on the video.
You're so disingenuous Nunez, it's sickening. It's not from 10 days ago, it's the Kharkiv incident from the middle of March that was discussed to death in this thread. It says so in the very link you posted. And the link clearly says:
In an effort by the pro Russia people to enter the room, from the windows of the second floor a bottle flew in with combustible mixture ("Molotov cocktail") and the Right Sector began firing a firearm.
This was the event that was clearly provoked by Russia, as Lifenews.ru was already there to film it when the Pro-Russia guys started attacking the building. The incident was pretty much the only example of Right Sector violence cited by Lavrov and Putin to argue for the Crimean Annexation.
Please, PLEASE, check your sources. At least read the stuff you post before posting it.
***
Since the invasion of Crimea, President Vladimir Putin and President Barack Obama have had regular phone calls in an often half-hearted attempt to deescalate the ongoing crisis inside Ukraine. But as the U.S. and EU prepare to unveil new sanctions against Russia, Putin has decided the interactions should stop. The Kremlin has ended high-level contact with the Obama administration, according to diplomatic officials and sources close to the Russian leadership. The move signals an end to the diplomacy, for now. ... On Friday, Kerry warned that new round of American financial assaults on Russia were on the way. “We are putting in more sanctions, they will probably come Monday at the latest,” he said in a private meeting in Washington, according to an attendee. Russian businesses and individuals close to Putin would be on the sanctions list, he added. ... U.S. and Western European officials, echoing Kerry, told The Daily Beast that new sanctions against Russia could come as early as Monday, following an EU meeting to endorse a list of 15 Russian individuals that will be targeted for new sanctions. The U.S. could also unveil new individuals for targeted sanctions on Monday, but while the U.S. list overlaps the EU list, the two lists are not identical. ... That leaves the channel between Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as the only semi-functioning high-level diplomatic channel between Washington and Moscow. But even that often-frosty relationship has further chilled as the two sides hurled insults and accusations this week. Source.
EPT
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