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Sent.
Poland9239 Posts
On March 03 2014 04:59 Saryph wrote: This showed up on my twitter, apparently Polish armor headed east in response to what is going on. wtf... our media didn't mention anything so I think it has to be some old video | ||
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Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
On March 03 2014 04:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I don't understand why Putin could be limited in any way by US/Europe cutting ties with him. He can always turn to the Chinese, can't he? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/2006Russian_exports.PNG Imagine if all that export couldn't enter europe | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On March 03 2014 02:54 zeo wrote: Please tell me more about protesters being bussed in. My girlfriend's father runs a transport company and he has had 2 trucks and drivers locked down in Ukraine for weeks. They drivers say they can't get out of the country through Russia and are now trying to get through to Belarus. How do 30k Russians get passed Ukrainian border guards but a legitimate transport truck with Russian and Ukrainian papers can't get through? lol. How is that an issue since the Russians are the ones blocking the borders? P.S. so your girlfriend is Russian? now we are getting somewhere. | ||
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Twoflowers
Germany241 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:01 hypercube wrote: Russia doesn't have the infrastructure to export all of its gas production to China. Plus plenty of billionaires close to Putin have assets in the west, most of which can't be moved to China. They would be kinda upset if they had to chose between supporting Putin or losing their assets. Finally, it's not like China would go out of their way to help Russia. They wouldn't join in the sanctions but as far as they're concerned the best outcome would be if everyone just stopped fighting and were nice to each other. Just think about the UK government confiscating Chelsea FC. Abramovich would be heartbroken and Pandemona would get an aneurysm. Also, russia imports a lot of hightech machinery from the EU (especially germany) and who knows if the chinese can acually export the amount of food needed (iirc russia imported food worth 40 billion € from the eu). | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:07 Sent. wrote: wtf... our media didn't mention anything so I think it has to be some old video I will admit I do not know that much about Polish media, but do they usually discuss movement of military assets inside your own country? Moving something from one base to another base? | ||
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
Are there any reports on how many troops Russia have inside of the Crimean territory? I honestly can't see any other outcome other than Crimea going into Russian hands. (or at least a major part of it) No force will be used by either side, it have potential to change the world. (Israel would be screwed instantly) | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
Link | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On March 03 2014 02:48 Derez wrote: News 'channels' like RT are broadcasting images from last weeks euromaidan as 'live' images coming from the crimea, and 150k russians have fled crimea according to RU tv. The justification is a completely fabricated story. The guys taking over the buildings in crimea are suspected to be part of PMC's, the protestors in eastern ukrainian cities are rumored to be bussed in and others are supposedly paid (which is why the protest ended so abruptly in some cities). The russian state together with the russian media (all pretty much under the states control) are creating their own narrative. yeah I heard about that on 1+1 news. They added that the video which Russian news claimed was shot at the Russian border was actually at the Polish one. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 03 2014 04:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I don't understand why Putin could be limited in any way by US/Europe cutting ties with him. He can always turn to the Chinese, can't he? On other news: @Nunez, lol, clowncar :D | ||
nimdil
Poland3750 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:18 Saryph wrote: I will admit I do not know that much about Polish media, but do they usually discuss movement of military assets inside your own country? Moving something from one base to another base? Polish media is pretty free and open - apparently freedom of media is in better shape here than in USA but worse than i.e. nordic countries - and I imagine that in current situation movement of armed forces toward border with Ukraine would be a news worth spreading. Without ukraine/russia context nobody cares that we move few tanks around. | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:25 nimdil wrote: Polish media is pretty free and open - apparently freedom of media is in better shape here than in USA but worse than i.e. nordic countries - and I imagine that in current situation movement of armed forces toward border with Ukraine would be a news worth spreading. Without ukraine/russia context nobody cares that we move few tanks around. http://www.kresy.pl/wydarzenia,wojskowosc?zobacz/przegrupowanie-w-polskiej-armii-w-zwiazku-z-kryzysem-na-ukrainie- I saw this, could you comment on the credibility of the website, I have never seen it before. I think it's saying that the movements of forces east is unrelated to the Ukraine, just general movement. But if I am off, please correct me. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:18 Tobblish wrote: And people say that Russia is not capable anymore to commit stupid acts like these because of NATO and UN. Are there any reports on how many troops Russia have inside of the Crimean territory? I honestly can't see any other outcome other than Crimea going into Russian hands. (or at least a major part of it) No force will be used by either side, it have potential to change the world. (Israel would be screwed instantly) Once more: 1) NATO has nothing to do with this. Period. Ukraine is not a member state. Unless Russia shows aggression towards the territory of a member state it's literally none of their business. 2) The UN is as useless as usual. Just like the US veto'd most anti-US resolutions in the past Russia will veto any resolution against them. All the security council is good for is declaring some form of "We don't really like this and the Russians veto'd us!" | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
30:30 Clearly the attacks on Russian peacekeepers and their deaths were lacking. So he quickly ordered those in. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:36 r.Evo wrote: Once more: 1) NATO has nothing to do with this. Period. Ukraine is not a member state. Unless Russia shows aggression towards the territory of a member state it's literally none of their business. 2) The UN is as useless as usual. Just like the US veto'd most anti-US resolutions in the past Russia will veto any resolution against them. All the security council is good for is declaring some form of "We don't really like this and the Russians veto'd us!" One may wonder why their system isn't like democracy. E.g. 50%+1 > all. Or even better to prevent possible abuse, 75% > the rest. I just don't understand why a veto cannot be overcome with votes. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9239 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:35 Saryph wrote: http://www.kresy.pl/wydarzenia,wojskowosc?zobacz/przegrupowanie-w-polskiej-armii-w-zwiazku-z-kryzysem-na-ukrainie- I saw this, could you comment on the credibility of the website, I have never seen it before. I think it's saying that the movements of forces east is unrelated to the Ukraine, just general movement. But if I am off, please correct me. Article mentioned official response of some military spokesman. He said that it has absolutely nothing to do with events in Ukraine. | ||
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Twoflowers
Germany241 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:36 r.Evo wrote: Once more: 1) NATO has nothing to do with this. Period. Ukraine is not a member state. Unless Russia shows aggression towards the territory of a member state it's literally none of their business. 2) The UN is as useless as usual. Just like the US veto'd most anti-US resolutions in the past Russia will veto any resolution against them. All the security council is good for is declaring some form of "We don't really like this and the Russians veto'd us!" Israel is also not a part of NATO but the USA, Germany and others are much more committed to it than to the Ukraine. It's probably the most important nonmember state as far as these two are concerned. Also Israels military is capable enough to defend against any threats form the middle east. (Also it's the only nuclear power in the region...) | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:18 Tobblish wrote: And people say that Russia is not capable anymore to commit stupid acts like these because of NATO and UN. Are there any reports on how many troops Russia have inside of the Crimean territory? I honestly can't see any other outcome other than Crimea going into Russian hands. (or at least a major part of it) No force will be used by either side, it have potential to change the world. (Israel would be screwed instantly) Ukrainian Prime Minister used 6000 as an estimation. | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
The fact they are choosing their words carefully suggests this whole thing is a calculated power play, rather than an attempt to start a war. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 03 2014 05:36 r.Evo wrote: Once more: 1) NATO has nothing to do with this. Period. Ukraine is not a member state. Unless Russia shows aggression towards the territory of a member state it's literally none of their business. 2) The UN is as useless as usual. Just like the US veto'd most anti-US resolutions in the past Russia will veto any resolution against them. All the security council is good for is declaring some form of "We don't really like this and the Russians veto'd us!" That's just not true. On (1), let me quote the freshly minted NATO council report: Military action against Ukraine by forces of the Russian Federation is a breach of international law and contravenes the principles of the NATO-Russia Council and the Partnership for Peace. Russia must respect its obligations under the United Nations Charter and the spirit and principles of the OSCE, on which peace and stability in Europe rest. We call on Russia to de-escalate tensions. Ukraine is a valued partner for NATO and a founding member of the Partnership for Peace. NATO Allies will continue to support Ukrainian sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity, and the right of the Ukrainian people to determine their own future, without outside interference. What this says is that there is a framework (Council and Partnership for Peace) which Russia's actions in Ukraine are violating. Furthermore, they mention the stability of Europe because any conflict with one of their European members will immediately concern NATO. Furthermore, Ukraine is a partner of NATO, and part of the above frameworks, which makes it even more a NATO concern. And, on top of all that, as the last sentence emphasizes, NATO members (UK and US) are committed by the 94 Budapest Memorandum to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine, which means that they are drawn into the conflict. | ||
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