EPTPublic masturbation now ok in Sweden - Page 5
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:19 KwarK wrote: If a guy picked in front of a school to do it I'd be happy concluding his intention was probably to be seen by the children. If he picked behind a tree in the middle of nowhere I'd be happy concluding that it was not. We have a legal system to decide these things. But what if the guy is not IN FRONT of the school and is against the wall that board the school and get off by hearing the voices of children... They were arrest of that kind of guy... How do you prove what they are doing if you have no law to this ? | ||
KwarK
United States43968 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:17 FFW_Rude wrote: Well... Seeing someone masturbating can be non-consensual sex if the person you see what you to see it. How do you prove that it's not the case then ? So you have the same problem to : "You get out of your home and open the door". 1. You see me walking accosse the street. 2. You see me masturbating accross the street. It's the same thing for you ? Those can be done on a case by case basis. If the police think the person targeted you to see it then it's still covered by this law, the ruling only says that if they're not involving anyone else (or any groups of people) then the act of masturbation outside isn't inherently illegal. There might be other laws being broken but just jacking it in a public place isn't illegal. It's like seeing dicks everywhere in the gym. I don't like it and I try not to look but I also try not to confuse my dislike of it with things that should be illegal. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:22 KwarK wrote: Those can be done on a case by case basis. If the police think the person targeted you to see it then it's still covered by this law, the ruling only says that if they're not involving anyone else (or any groups of people) then the act of masturbation outside isn't inherently illegal. There might be other laws being broken but just jacking it in a public place isn't illegal. It's like seeing dicks everywhere in the gym. I don't like it and I try not to look but I also try not to confuse my dislike of it with things that should be illegal. I think i know what you want to say but i just don't get how you can differencate the malicious guy from the normal guy ? Also Gym is not a public place. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
You also seem to have views completely different from most of the rest of the world so it's strange how you speak as if it's even close to the truth - some "in my opinion"s would be more than justified. In my opinion I am sexually involved if I stumble upon a dude masturbating and get disgusted, even if afterwards I turn around and leave. It should be my right to walk along the path normally, not his right to force me to turn around. On the street that's not even as bad as I can leave, what about the train if he starts doing it next to me? Or do you believe that "harm" is only limited to physical harm? That makes you seem extremely naive, have you ever visited a psychiatric hospital? Or do you perhaps believe that mental harm doesn't exist because it doesn't affect -you-? Then we can of course get into the obvious stuff like it being impossible to prove that a person isn't doing it because being seen by others turns him off. Do you suggest lie detectors or do you assume every public masturbator is an honest person? | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
The thread is simply named incorrectly. The point is that it's not considered sexual assault if you don't specifically target someone with your masturbation, it's still not legal. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:04 NTTemplar wrote: If I go to the swimhall I have to see dousens of naked guys in the lockerrooms, I think that is gross, so I just don't look. What is the difference that they are masturbating? so its gross, then just don't look and walk on, why should that upset you anymore? He is just masturbating, its not a big deal, its plain masturbating, ok you think its gross looking at this 65 old man, then don't look and just continue your walk peacefully. I get where the people saying this sort of masturbation shouldn't be illegal are coming from, but I really doubt that many people who publicly masturbate are doing it because they simply want to jerk it in nature. There is, I would expect, a certain element of exhibitionism. Which is essentially deriving sexual gratification from others. I really don't want anyone deriving sexual gratification from me unless I give them my permission and I'm sure most of us agree. I also think there is also a reasonable amount of weight behind the argument someone else said that simply coming across someone masturbating in public could very much frighten someone, especially if that person were by nature timid or fairly innocent. On October 01 2013 00:15 Jibba wrote: If someone were to sexually assault someone/harass them through masturbation, how would you prove it? What level of proof would you require to stop sick fucks from treading the line? This is another reason - the basic fact that the defence of 'I was just enjoying nature' would be so available to people who were, in fact, deriving sexual pleasure from the proximity to people...it's just a bad practical idea. For a small gain in personal rights you are opening up several cans of worms. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:19 KwarK wrote: If a guy picked in front of a school to do it I'd be happy concluding his intention was probably to be seen by the children. If he picked behind a tree in the middle of nowhere I'd be happy concluding that it was not. We have a legal system to decide these things. Using children is too much of an extreme. What about just masturbating on the lift or a bus? | ||
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KwarK
United States43968 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:22 FFW_Rude wrote: But what if the guy is not IN FRONT of the school and is against the wall that board the school and get off by hearing the voices of children... They were arrest of that kind of guy... How do you prove what they are doing if you have no law to this ? In cases where he's obviously involving other people it's still illegal. Are you arguing that we should outlaw a bunch of stuff that doesn't harm anyone so that way it's easier to prosecute people who do stuff that is illegal because they'll have broken a really broad law? That seems a shitty way to legislate. Might as well ban breathing so any time you have a murder suspect you can't convict you can get them on breathing. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:26 KwarK wrote: In cases where he's obviously involving other people it's still illegal. Are you arguing that we should outlaw a bunch of stuff that doesn't harm anyone so that way it's easier to prosecute people who do stuff that is illegal because they'll have broken a really broad law? That seems a shitty way to legislate. Might as well ban breathing so any time you have a murder suspect you can't convict you can get them on breathing. Yes, because the benefit of public masturbation doesn't outweigh the difficulty and cost of the harassment that ensues. We're not talking fundamental rights or basic sustenance. It's the same way we make rules that don't necessarily apply very well on an individual basis, but exist due to how things function in the entire system. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:26 KwarK wrote: In cases where he's obviously involving other people it's still illegal. Are you arguing that we should outlaw a bunch of stuff that doesn't harm anyone so that way it's easier to prosecute people who do stuff that is illegal because they'll have broken a really broad law? That seems a shitty way to legislate. Might as well ban breathing so any time you have a murder suspect you can't convict you can get them on breathing. How is that obvious ? The guy is not directing at anything. Well i'm done talking with you because you are awfully aggressive. You are a MOD and you must give exemple (or at least don't do what people get ban for). People get banned for the passive aggressive stuff... Show the exemple and have a civil discussion. You are basicly saying to me : "You are a dumbass". It's not acceptable. See ya. | ||
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nakam
Sweden245 Posts
On September 30 2013 23:10 FromShouri wrote: Im okay with it if youre partly secluded. I think sweden is also the country with the drive up brothel things with guards and shit near by. Something like that(with some tweaking of course) could work. Sweden != Switzerland. All forms of prostitution is illegal in Sweden. | ||
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KwarK
United States43968 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:25 Jibba wrote: Using children is too much of an extreme. What about just masturbating on the lift or a bus? I know a couple (now married) who used to do all sorts of sex stuff on buses and never once got caught. Nobody was harmed and I'm not sure why we need a law against doing stuff like that. The same principle of reasonable assumption applies. If a guy picks a crowded lift as a place to jack it I'd be happy concluding that he wanted to jack off with all these people around him, that he was non-consensually involving them in it. | ||
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ThomasR
764 Posts
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KwarK
United States43968 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:28 Rassy wrote: It does harm people if they see it, you are just in denial. Just because you dont mind seeing a guy masturbate in public does not mean this goes for everyone. The majority of people find seeing a guy masurbate in anny situation other then a private sexual encounter disgusting. Am not even gonna read this thread annymore, this is beyond crazy lol. Your guilt issues surrounding masturbation are no more justified as public policy than Islamic concerns regarding women showing their faces in public. Appealing to the majority is what allows them to enforce Sharia law in Islamic countries too. "I don't like it" and "the majority don't like it" are not great reasons to take away freedoms. Also "I am harmed by you doing it, even though it doesn't involve me" isn't even a morally grey proclamation, it is literally the argument used to ban homosexuality. | ||
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Archeon
3265 Posts
On September 30 2013 23:16 Pandemona wrote: Holy smokes. That is absolutely mind boggling. Sweden why you so silly sometimes "/ Just think about it as a parent, from their perspective. There young daughters ranging from 6-16 walking alone the riverbanks with there friends or whatever and seeing men masturbating (or females) it would scare them for life! Especially if the older generation where the most prolific people to do this. Can't see this doing nothing but harm Sweden's image >.< I cant see how that should do anything to the children, as they either will not understand what the man is doing, be confused and go away as he seems to be naked, or understand what's going on and go away to leave the guy to his pleas. At worst they will feel disgusted (like in early puberty around 12, where sex is a subject of conversation but still a no-go). Many young children are disgusted by seeing a spider too. Few take lasting damage from that. It's more that parents often seem to think that their children cant handle sexuality and that something terrible will happen when the children notice. How do these people think humans have survived while living in caves or houses with only one room together? On September 30 2013 23:20 FiWiFaKi wrote: Should totally me legal, good change. I think that if you are intentionally showing your dong to passerbys it's too much... But I see no issue masturbating in a public bathroom, outside in a field, movie theatre, or just anywhere where your penis/vagina is not exposed to many people who don't want to seewhere Now that we are in a day and age where everyone is always busy, you should not be required to receive your secure release late in the evening when you're home. I hope other countries follow suit. I totally agree. Dont see anything wrong with people masturbating where nobody can see them. And it shouldnt be to hard to judge whether this is a place where people pass by often or not. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2773 Posts
First check if they tried to stay secluded (obviously jacking off at the town square is a no no). Secondly check if they tried to get the attention of any person, followed them, was on their property or similar. Thirdly judge the reaction they had when they were detected. In a somewhat similar case one person was aquitted for taking pictures of a naked person because the victim was walking around naked in their livingroom plainly visible from the street while another was slammed because he was standing in their garden taking pictures on people in the bathroom. Its not so hard to determine most of the time. Also its not illegal to be naked in your house but it is if you try to get peoples attention to it. Sweden is kind of big on the sexual freedom front as long as you dont force it on another person. That was why beastiality is legal as long as its not animal cruelty. This will probably change because of the rampant horse rape tho. (I wish I was kidding  ). Itsprobably for the best. | ||
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KwarK
United States43968 Posts
On October 01 2013 00:27 Jibba wrote: Yes, because the benefit of public masturbation doesn't outweigh the difficulty and cost of the harassment that ensues. We're not talking fundamental rights or basic sustenance. It's the same way we make rules that don't necessarily apply very well on an individual basis, but exist due to how things function in the entire system. I don't get this harassment thing and how it isn't already covered by the "not directed at anyone" aspect of the ruling. If you're picking a specific person to masturbate in front of because you want them to see it then that's illegal. I don't see how this ruling in any way allows harassment, it's simply that the act itself isn't criminal, rather how you do it might make it criminal. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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